Everyone is so FIRM!!

I notice on ball python classifieds that everyone is so FIRM!!! and not willing to negotiate a deal, or at least somewhat close to one. Why is this? In a market where there's so many of the same morphs available you'd think prices would be a little more competitive. So I'm just curious as to why? I understand your not going to budge that much but maybe it's just how I was raised.. Always making deals and also looking for the best deal... Whats your opinion on this all? Also, do you know a decent breeder who is cool to deal with and has some wiggle room every now and again?

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Originally Posted by domenge

I notice on ball python classifieds that everyone is so FIRM!!! and not willing to negotiate a deal, or at least somewhat close to one. Why is this? In a market where there's so many of the same morphs available you'd think prices would be a little more competitive. So I'm just curious as to why? I understand your not going to budge that much but maybe it's just how I was raised.. Always making deals and also looking for the best deal... Whats your opinion on this all? Also, do you know a decent breeder who is cool to deal with and has some wiggle room every now and again?

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really what you do is try to wheel and deal and if they dont just say ok i will take my money elsewhere. not your problem but theirs. because someone will deal.

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Originally Posted by tcutting

really what you do is try to wheel and deal and if they dont just say ok i will take my money elsewhere. not your problem but theirs. because someone will deal.

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Right, that's what I'm talking about. Usually you always do find someone to wheel and deal but they're few and far between.

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Originally Posted by domenge

Right, that's what I'm talking about. Usually you always do find someone to wheel and deal but they're few and far between.

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i had a great experience with Action reptiles. I was able to make a good deal with them for my OG. the people for it are out there just gotta hold out for the morph you are looking for and really ask around.

VMS has never wiggled on their prices for me at all and I have purchased from them multiple times. Otherwise, I have NEVER had a herp breeder/dealer not budge when I have brought up the issue. I usually end up paying 10% less that what was asked, whether it be knocking off a bit for buying multiple animals, insisting that the breeder pay for shipping, etc. People may say firm but when they see you and your money start to walk away that will usually trigger a response of some sort.

Give an example and Id be able to tell you whether or not i agree with you...

I always try and haggle a bit or work out a deal, but if i already know its a good price or if im friends with the seller then i usually wont try to haggle with them because i already know theyre hooking me up.

But if youre offering like $200 for a female lesser then i would be insulted too lol. Thats why i said you gotta give an example. No names though, no need for them.

To me it just depends on the situation.

See, these guys who post a lot on Kingsnake and such get a lot of really low-ball offers and offers from people who have no intention of actually buying the animal. After a while it gets old, and thus the refusal to make a deal.

I have found if you are sincere about a particular animal and start a conversation with the seller, sometimes you can negotiate a deal. But if you start out by asking for a lower price, you'll usually get ignored.

For example you find a really nice let's say Firefly female. The seller is asking an average market price for her and says his price is firm. You contact the seller and ask the intelligent questions. What does she eat ? When do you feed ? When did she hatch ? What is your shipping policy ? What forms of payment do you accept ? Tell the seller why you are interested in his animal instead of a different seller's animal, be honest.

Once you get a good conversation going, ask what the price with shipping was again. Sometimes the seller may quote you the advertised price, and offer a shipping discount. Sometimes the seller may agree to come down a smidgen on the price if they feel you are serious. Sometimes they won't.

But ask yourself this, if you posted one of your own snakes, for what you knew was a very reasonable price, and all you got were 25 emails a day offering you less than 1/4th of the snakes value, how likely would you be to want to discount right off the bat ?

Gale

If you're constantly seeking "the deal", my opinion is that you're not really looking for the best animals available, which will only lead to you producing even less quality animals down the road, contributing further to the watering down of quality ball pythons.

That being said, try buying from a reputable breeder that produces animals to your liking. Chances are, as a repeat customer, you may get a sweeter deal than your first purchase with that person. Not all work this way, but many do.

Did you negotiate the best reasonable offer? I usually find what the average market price is for a certain morph and have them match it and even ask for additional 15% off...I usually have the money up front and could make the full payment. Some people are tight on money so they are more than willing to accept my offer if I paid in full. It works for me! Just be nice about it too! Lol.

I would say it all depends on who your working with.
A great company I've worked with recently has been Exotics by Nature. They are MORE than willing to get me what I want and at a great price. Truly awesome guys over there. I've got a bp from someone on fauna and they threw in a freebie male. It really depends on who you work with. Maybe you just havnt found a flexible person yet.

I agree though that a deal shouldnt be in your mind all the time. Bps are NOT cheap. And quailty wont be cheap. Depending on what morphs your working with it can be very insulting to the breeder if you low ball them. I'm all about giving on deal on my bps I sell but if your offering $300 under my asking price, thats a bit much. (as an example)

Also when you suggest other people to buy from the same breeder you buy from and you write them good BOI threads then youre getting them more business so theyll usually hook you up. Make sure other people mention your name if you sugges them to a seller.

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Originally Posted by Orijin0XazN

Did you negotiate the best reasonable offer? I usually find what the average market price is for a certain morph and have them match it and even ask for additional 15% off

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So Joe Schmoe produces an animal and sells it for $300 less than everyone else and all of the sudden everyone has to match HIS price? Nice way to start a negotiation :rolleyes:

How about buying Joe Schmoe’s animal instead since the price is better? :confuzd:

If I see an animal I truly want, I will by it period even if someone else has the same mutation cheaper, it’s not about the deal, it’s about the snake something I can be proud to add to my collection.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

If you're constantly seeking "the deal", my opinion is that you're not really looking for the best animals available, which will only lead to you producing even less quality animals down the road, contributing further to the watering down of quality ball pythons.

That being said, try buying from a reputable breeder that produces animals to your liking. Chances are, as a repeat customer, you may get a sweeter deal than your first purchase with that person. Not all work this way, but many do.

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I'm not constantly lookin for a deal when it comes to snakes. In the past month I've spent $1950 on 2 snakes that I have killer plans with and I have no problem with that. I've just always loved wheeling and dealing (I work in sales so its second nature) and your point is 100% valid. What I'm talking about more is all the ads I see that say FIRM or statements like "dont offer me any less" just things like that which steer me away from that breeder.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

To me it just depends on the situation.

See, these guys who post a lot on Kingsnake and such get a lot of really low-ball offers and offers from people who have no intention of actually buying the animal. After a while it gets old, and thus the refusal to make a deal.

I have found if you are sincere about a particular animal and start a conversation with the seller, sometimes you can negotiate a deal. But if you start out by asking for a lower price, you'll usually get ignored.

For example you find a really nice let's say Firefly female. The seller is asking an average market price for her and says his price is firm. You contact the seller and ask the intelligent questions. What does she eat ? When do you feed ? When did she hatch ? What is your shipping policy ? What forms of payment do you accept ? Tell the seller why you are interested in his animal instead of a different seller's animal, be honest.

Once you get a good conversation going, ask what the price with shipping was again. Sometimes the seller may quote you the advertised price, and offer a shipping discount. Sometimes the seller may agree to come down a smidgen on the price if they feel you are serious. Sometimes they won't.

But ask yourself this, if you posted one of your own snakes, for what you knew was a very reasonable price, and all you got were 25 emails a day offering you less than 1/4th of the snakes value, how likely would you be to want to discount right off the bat ?

Gale

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Specifically this response in relation to the OP's issue. The issue isn't face-to-face negotiations, it's adverts on classifieds like Kingsnake that are firm and refuse to budge. With the amount of crap emails people get daily on their adverts, it comes as no surprise to me that somebody would put FIRM on their price. It immediately deters a large percentage of the idiots -- Heck! It deters lots of serious buyers too. We negotiate our animals all the time.. but we've also had a couple of face-to-face or phone negotiations that fall through because people just aren't serious about the purchase to begin with. I imagine this number is vastly larger on an anonymous reply to an ad on Kingsnake.

Build a relationship with the seller, show them you're serious (only if you are), and if the situation allows, there may be an option to negotiate. There might not be either, but if you aren't willing or able to pay the full price, don't go into the transaction with the assumption that you will get the animal for any less than the asking price.

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Originally Posted by domenge

I'm not constantly lookin for a deal when it comes to snakes. In the past month I've spent $1950 on 2 snakes that I have killer plans with and I have no problem with that. I've just always loved wheeling and dealing (I work in sales so its second nature) and your point is 100% valid. What I'm talking about more is all the ads I see that say FIRM or statements like "dont offer me any less" just things like that which steer me away from that breeder.

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Would you rather these sellers inflate their prices by 10-15% and then discount by that much when asked? Some sellers build a 10% margin into their prices and expect to discount that off. Others would rather just give the lowest price they will accept from the very beginning.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons

Would you rather these sellers inflate their prices by 10-15% and then discount by that much when asked? Some sellers build a 10% margin into their prices and expect to discount that off. Others would rather just give the lowest price they will accept from the very beginning.

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I wouldn't "rather" anything.. Just started a thread/ discussion...

I agree that it depends on the animal and the dealer. I pay face price on some of the animals because I know:

It is a hot morph
It is very high quality

I have been offered great deals without asking, because dealers know I am a serious buyer. Also, building a history with a breeder always helps. Over the course of the conversation e discuss the plans I have for the animals, I will send pics of my set-up, and other things that show I am a serious buyer and collector. Also, over time, you gain your own reputation, and that can help or hurt.

FIRM can be a matter of patience as well. The price may not be so firm if they have been advertising it for a month above current market.

But the buyer needs to be well read as well and know what current market is. If the morph is rare enough that you cannot establish an average price, then that explains the higher price.

Finally, as stated, a lot is in HOW you approach someone. There is ZERO reason to give Joe Schmo off the street a good deal. You need to present yourself in such a manner that it is a good deal for BOTH of you.

No one should be INSULTED by any offer, even a low ball offer. Just say no thanks.

If someone says they wouldn't give you two cents for your snake, THEN you should be insulted.

As they say in the old neighborhood, it's not personal; it's just business. :cool:

When I add an animal to my collection I look for quality first and foremost. The whole "FIRM" thing tends to fly out the window when you have cash on hand and your serious. That is put there to get rid of the low ballers. If you have sold anything before in a classified situation you will understand that it gets very frustrating when you get 10 emails with people all who want what your selling but for 50% off the asking price. In business a deal either comes together or falls apart and to me its always worth a shot. I've had breeders shoot down offers I've made that were 5% off asking or they refused to cover shipping if I paid full price. Then the ball was back in my court to see if the deal was worth giving up on for 50-100 dollars. Don't let it turn you off from emailing them just don't make a ridiculous offer because that would most likely not even get a response.

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Originally Posted by HerpIsAhobby

When I add an animal to my collection I look for quality first and foremost. The whole "FIRM" thing tends to fly out the window when you have cash on hand and your serious.

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This is very true! Just seems like there are a lot of how do I say this politely... Jerks out there who don't want to talk if you if you mention $100 cheaper or something real small. But I do agree with the quality over quantity! I've been looking for specific morphs and hets and boy they're not cheap! So I've been saving and looking for someone decent to deal with. Can't hate me for it, but some do!

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So Joe Schmoe produces an animal and sells it for $300 less than everyone else and all of the sudden everyone has to match HIS price? Nice way to start a negotiation :rolleyes:

How about buying Joe Schmoe’s animal instead since the price is better? :confuzd:

If I see an animal I truly want, I will by it period even if someone else has the same mutation cheaper, it’s not about the deal, it’s about the snake something I can be proud to add to my collection.

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I did say the average price. Not the lowest price. Then negotiate a price to where we both agree to.....I thought that's how negotiating works? It really depends on the situation...Of course I won't low ball $300 off their asking price. I wouldn't even ask. That's just silly

$300 is a relative number, depending on the initial price. Big difference if the snake is $800 vs. $3500. Better to think in percentages. And this can also be relative in relation to where the price stands in relation to market.

In the end, offer what you are willing to pay on the spot, and they will take it or leave it, or negotiate. Those are really the only options.

I don't haggle on animals usually unless its localish and I'm going to be spending awhile in the vehicle to get it and the seller isn't meeting me 1/2 way. IDK it annoys me when people try get me to go significantly down from an already fair price on something I've spent a great deal of energy and effort producing. Perhaps I'm just thin skinned.

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The problem with asking for $100 off is the original asking price. If someone wants $500 for a snake, and you ask for $100 off, that's a lot. 1/5th of the asking price.

Think about it in terms of a sale at your favorite store. If something goes on sale for 10% off, it's a good deal. 20% is really good. Anything over 20% is something you snag without a second thought, even if you don't need it.

Most people in my experience are willing to entertain a 10% discount. It all depends on how you ask.

Case in point. Last season I hatched out two vanilla males. Both were outstanding examples, and I had a lot of people tell me so. When I took them to a show to sell, people were commenting on them all day. Even a fellow breeder of vanillas told me he wished he'd hatched vanillas so nice.

Guy comes up and looks at them, sees I am asking $250 each. { Which by the way was $75 less than the other breeder with vanillas. } Anyhow, he asks when they hatched etc. Then he says, "I'd like one, but I'm only going to pay $200." I told him the price was $250, and if he thought it was too high, he could pay $325 at the other table. He shook his head and says, " No I want one of these, but you are asking too much. I'll give you $200." I told him if I was already $75 lower than another breeder, how on earth did he figure I was asking too much ? He gets all huffy and snotty, and he leaves.

Later on, good friend and fellow breeder stops by, and he's admiring the boys. He tells me he's been thinking about adding vanilla to his projects for a while now, and if he's going to do it he likes mine for that. I said thanks. As the show is closing, he comes over and asks how we did. I told him not bad, the other vanilla sold and the three normal siblings had as well. He congratulated us and said he still wanted that vanilla male, but he'd bought a lot before the show and was a little short on cash. I laughed and told him I'd sell it to him for $200 if he wanted it, which he did and he paid cash right then.

Now, why did I turn down $200 from the first guy, but offered the snake for $200 to the second guy ?

Attitude. Plain and simple.

Gale

I don't imagine 'FIRM' means 100% firm, like many people here said. If you put up an ad for a snake (or anything really) and put: "Open to offers", can you even imagine the kind of offers you'd get? The moment you say 'Offers', people assume that you'll take anything. You'll get low-balls, or even non-cash offers. I had people before trying to trade me household items for things I was selling. "I'll trade you that desk you're selling for a broken Xbox". Are you kidding? Haha.

Creating a relationship between the seller and the buyer is critical. I would rather sell one of my animals for a lower price to someone I know is genuinely interested in THAT animal (perhaps not even for just the genetics, but for the animal itself) than to sell my animal to someone who is just e-mailing me short and basic e-mails. No personality, no background, no nothing.

You can tell a person's tone by how they approach a sale. If you are in sales, you know this. You know that the people who are open, charismatic and willing to chat it up a bit are the ones more likely to be flexible with their prices. The ones that are short, blunt and to the point often don't wiggle much.

At the end of the day, it's great that you want to make a deal. And most people are willing to make a deal. For some people, it's a matter of how you approach it, and whether they feel 'comfortable' with that deal. If some stranger walked up and just expected me to beat someone else's price, I'd tell them I'm not interested. However, if someone came at me logically, patiently and was open about the whole transaction, I might be more flexible.

I just went through this with a local breeder. I was willing to pay full price for one of her hatchlings. We got to talking and I told her about how I wasn't breeding and had no means to breed anytime soon, but I loved the morph and could only buy one BP (I'm out of room now, as I saved my last spot for my BP). So I was more than happy to pay full price for a pet. However, she counter offered me and gave me a reduced price, because she was happy it would be going to a home where it would be spoiled, haha.

It's all about communication and connection. If you don't communicate and can't connect with someone, then your chances of making a deal are slim. We're all people, even breeders. The more you show them you're genuine, the better the transaction should go.

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Originally Posted by domenge

I notice on ball python classifieds that everyone is so FIRM!!! and not willing to negotiate a deal, or at least somewhat close to one. Why is this? In a market where there's so many of the same morphs available you'd think prices would be a little more competitive. So I'm just curious as to why? I understand your not going to budge that much but maybe it's just how I was raised.. Always making deals and also looking for the best deal... Whats your opinion on this all? Also, do you know a decent breeder who is cool to deal with and has some wiggle room every now and again?

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For my part, I simply HATE negotiating. I try to price my animals according to their worth on the market. I'll do deals for multiple animal orders. But haggling? I just despise doing it. I've done it, but I don't like it. It may be because I'm bad at it, to be sure, lol.

Prices ARE competitive--you need to realize that. These animals are worth what most folks are asking for them, and people are firm on their prices because the animals WILL SELL FOR THAT PRICE. Why should they accept less than people are willing to pay? What's the incentive to make a deal with one person, when someone else is willing to pay full value?

Also, what's the advantage to you, if everyone's willing to come down in price? What that means is just that you'll get even less for YOUR offspring when you produce them. You don't want that. Lower prices aren't a good thing. If you're looking for a pet, sure--but if you're looking for an investment to breed, and want the best return on your investment, the less prices come down, the better.

One other small pet peeve....if the animal is $250 or less, don't ask for free shipping... that just makes me grind my teeth. That's usually at least $60, and it's a substantial chunk of money off of the price. Most people who do that don't seem to realize exactly how much shipping costs.

I have had pretty good luck negotiating with sellers, but I also buy alot of my snakes from the same few breeders. Return business is awlays appreciated.

On the other hand...if I see the "perfect snake"...It's coming home with me regardless the cost. Even if it is well above market price.

I have gotten a few deals from breeders without really trying to haggle. Usually I will contact them in regards to one snake and then further talking to them end up buying another because of a deal. I have had this done with every snake I have purchased from a breeder I have purchased online.

I have contacted breeders asking the usual questions about a snake and in further conversation I have had a Pinstripe, Pastel, and het albino thrown in the deal for cheap.

The things I feel help make the breeder willing to make a deal with me are;

I always pay in full 100% THAT day within the hour of the deal. I don't want them to back out of the deal or sell the snake I made a deal on to someone else.

I never ask them to pay for shipping. I always give them my zipcode in the first inquiring email so they can give me the exact shipping price.

I always start with the initial snake that I will buy for the breeder's asking price even if he/she doesn't throw in the second snake at a deal. I never ask for a discount on this snake.

Shopping around hatching time. Most breeders are trying to make space in their rack and are more willing to make deals on snakes they weren't able to sell from last season.

Knowing the market price will be super helpful. If you know you are already getting a good deal on a snake, don't try to go lower. The breeders are not stupid, they know the going market prices.

Reptile shows seem to be the places that you can get the best possible deal. I was able to get a BRB hatchling for $125. Not only is that a bit cheaper than market value, he was the only breeder selling them and he only had four. That was his asking price and I wouldn't have dreamed about asking for less considering that was exactly what I was going to the show to find.

Craiglist is my only exception to these "rules". I refuse to pay market price on a snake on Craigslist, especially hets. If I am interested I am upfront and honest in my first email saying I will give you $x and I won't go higher. Let me know if you are interested. I am sure I have insulted some people that way, however I feel the gamble is higher buying from Joe Blow from down the street. If I am going to pay market price I am going to get a "better" snake from a breeder.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

No one should be INSULTED by any offer, even a low ball offer. Just say no thanks.

If someone says they wouldn't give you two cents for your snake, THEN you should be insulted.

As they say in the old neighborhood, it's not personal; it's just business. :cool:

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Agreed, anyone who is insulted by being offered money is a fool and I don't deal with fools.

I don't haggle when I buy. I shop the snake, not the deal (to quote Sean Bradley). For example, I'm still hunting for my perfect enchi female. I've found one, and been given the price. If the seller still has her when a bonus check comes in soon, I'll pay for her asking price. I do believe in pricing based on a graded scale with mutations that can be graded (pastels and enchi's for example).

As a seller, if a buyer comes to me and wants me to drop my pricing on a Grade A pastel to the pricing of a Grade C, I'll have to politely decline. If they try to use the "but Joe Schmoe is selling his pastels for X amount", then I will again politely suggest that they spend their money with Joe Schmoe. If they say "but his don't look as good as yours"......well, with increased quality comes an increased price.

Knock wood, I have waiting lists of folks who appreciate quality over price, so haven't had to deal with too many of the aforementioned buyers. ;)

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Give an example and Id be able to tell you whether or not i agree with you...

I always try and haggle a bit or work out a deal, but if i already know its a good price or if im friends with the seller then i usually wont try to haggle with them because i already know theyre hooking me up.

But if youre offering like $200 for a female lesser then i would be insulted too lol. Thats why i said you gotta give an example. No names though, no need for them.

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Is $200 for a female lesser a good price?


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Originally Posted by masonhall

Is $200 for a female lesser a good price?

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Yes IMO, considering most I see are for at least $350+

I don't think I've ever seen a female for $200.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

No one should be INSULTED by any offer, even a low ball offer. Just say no thanks.

If someone says they wouldn't give you two cents for your snake, THEN you should be insulted.

As they say in the old neighborhood, it's not personal; it's just business. :cool:

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This x's 1000000. Just a lot of sally's when it comes to just talking about price. A lot of you will jump ass and give me the whole quantity over quality. Which I believe in. I'm also a firm believer in the phrase, It never hurts to ask. That's all. No need to get all weird. I will pay asking price depending on the quality of snake/breeder. For instance, I spoke with Garrick Demeyer for over a half hour (great guy btw!) when purchasing my pastel double het. He was asking 850 plus shipping. After talking I asked for free shipping and I'd paypal him the money while we were on the phone. No questions he was cool with that. It's deals and people like that who I want to deal with. Not someone who gets offended if your just asking.:gj:

I feel like, if you're going to get try and make a deal for a snake you should always be willing to pay full price. The worst that can happen is they say no. And I feel like that way you aren't wasting their time giving meaningless offers if you don't even end up buying the animal.

I always say OBRO (or best reasonable offer). When someone doesn't wanna try and deal it makes me not want to buy from them...

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if u keep in mind that a fair deal is 10-15% off anytime you wheel and deal and most people wont be insulted by that. if you are trying for like 20+% off good luck because it doesnt happen as often and you may upset someone. and then if the person isnt willing to budge you need to make a choice. either still go for it, or walk. I have had it go either way. I made good deals and other times the price was set as is. I tried for a little off but they didnt budge and I still got the snake. its always worth a shot.

I agree with what alot of people are saying. I shop the snake not the deal. If i find a really excellent looking animal and it is fairly priced, i buy it. If i am not ready to buy a snake of whatever price, i hold off and wait for another one to come along. I like to buy from the same breeders all the time and kind of let it evolve into a good buisness relationship. I am a serious buyer and i understand that some people say, "i want this animal", and then back out of a verbal agreement, that has the seller thinking you are going to buy, then you dont. Try talking a Best Buy employee or whoever to lower a set price on a t.v., its not going to happen. It is what it is alot of the time.

In certain industries bargaining is implied. When buying a car you don't just pay what someone is asking. When dealing with reptiles (at least in my experiences) there is going to be haggling.

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Originally Posted by masonhall

Is $200 for a female lesser a good price?


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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

Yes IMO, considering most I see are for at least $350+

I don't think I've ever seen a female for $200.

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Yea $200 would be a "too good to be true price".

Thats why i used it as a good example. Like daybreaker said most females are $350+. Thats why if you offer $200 for one itd be insulting. Maybe i just worded it poorly lol.

On a side note, I can't stand doing business with people who are firm on all they sell but haggle when they buy. They'll tell you all the reasons why you can't charge that much then they'll be the complete opposite when selling. Not my style.

cause this is a expensive HOBBY!!! emphasis on hobby honestly you just breaking even for the most part and what ever profit you make goes to buying new snakes for the collections lol i love wheelin and dealin though

I am generally very polite with the breeders I purchase from and make an effort to thank them for talking to me about the snakes I'm interested in as well as complimenting their productions. A little politeness goes a long way, and it tends to show in the discounts. I've even gotten a $1000 discount on a $3500 snake. I've gotten a $400 snake for $200. This isn't to say that someone should be fake polite to get discounts, but when I have hatchlings to sell, if someone makes an effort to be polite and friendly with me and sincerely enjoys the hobby as much as I do, I'd be happy to give them a break on the price.

What I don't like is the "buyer's always right" or "buyer makes all the calls" entitlement. I wouldn't want someone to come up to my booth and demand I sell a $500 snake for $400. Ask nicely? Quite fine! Demand it? Say they can get it for that price somewhere else? Go ahead and get it there...

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Originally Posted by domenge

This x's 1000000. Just a lot of sally's when it comes to just talking about price. A lot of you will jump ass and give me the whole quantity over quality. Which I believe in. I'm also a firm believer in the phrase, It never hurts to ask. That's all. No need to get all weird. I will pay asking price depending on the quality of snake/breeder. For instance, I spoke with Garrick Demeyer for over a half hour (great guy btw!) when purchasing my pastel double het. He was asking 850 plus shipping. After talking I asked for free shipping and I'd paypal him the money while we were on the phone. No questions he was cool with that. It's deals and people like that who I want to deal with. Not someone who gets offended if your just asking.:gj:

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I think that those that say that they are offended are basing it on experiences that they've had where the buyer tries to "insult" the seller with their attitude in many cases. I've seen buyers come up to tables at shows and look at an exceptional animal and say something like "your price is too high. All the other tables have this morph for X price - I'll pay you what they're selling them for".

Umm..no - first of all, that's not how you haggle, when they have an exceptional example and you want to pay average prices. I saw Collette Sutherland and one show just shrug her shoulders when someone tried that with her, and then shake her head when they walked off.

In your example, you took the time to get to know Garrick and build a relationship with him and probably were very polite in how you asked. Also - the price of the animal was high enough that eating the cost of shipping wasn't a huge "discount" off the price of the animal.

personally i think it is all about the attitude as mentioned by someone already, working out a reasonable price on both sides is not an issue with me as both a buyer or a breeder.

As a breeder I remember ones time, i had a clutch of beautiful Irian Jaya Carpet Pythons that i brought to a show and was trying to unload. price marked at $125 each, another table (not mentioning who), had some as well but were no where near as nice as mine, Initially marked at the same price. but he had something on his table i was interested in, and he was very interested in my entire clutch. he come over and asked what i wanted for the whole lot of them and so i made my counter offer, money wise he would have made out great, a lot more then the BP i wanted from his table. well he kicked of a attitude with me over it and the deal did not happen, he then returned to his table and droped the prices on his to $85 well needless to say i walked out of there with $1800 and all my carpets sold, while he had to pack all his up and take them home. at the time i think the PB was marked for like $400, and even though i had the cash at the end of the show i walked and never regretted not doing the deal.

as a buyer, it is always best to have the cash in hand and ready to pay the asking price including shipping, asking for a few bucks off or free shipping (depending on the animal) i do not see issues with, the seller will take it or leave it, if your gonna scoff over shipping fee's or the extra $100 or $200 is the hold up you should not have even approached the seller to begin with. but to toss an attitude about it is not gonna make the deal happen. the current 6 BP's i have are all from the same breeder, and the first order i got 3 snakes i got a total of about $350 off the total asking price without even asking for a deal. the following 3 although not as much as the first order price i got about $100 off. and that was even after some unexpected issues on payments from my end that occurred. Working with a few select breeders does go a long way especially when issues arise. and being repeat customers will generally snag you a slightly better deal along the way. just my experiences.

I learned from another vender at shows that you price your animals so you have downward room, cause you can always drop a price during the show or in negotiations, but it is really hard to raise the price.

With that said, each animal on my table has what I call hold back value. That is the value that if I saw the same quality of animal on another table at that price I would really have trouble walking away. Slightly above that is my bottom line. Also if someone comes up and low balls me by offering well below that price, I give them a polite "no" and leave it at that. I will not negotiate with that person from that point forward. The way I see it, these people know the value of the animal from looking online and are more worried about the money than the animals well being. That increases the risk of the animal not being cared for properly as they try to cut corners with their care. I like to think my animals all go to good homes, I understand the reality is not all do, but as a seller I can make decisions to improve the chances that the animal goes to a proper home.

I do tend to give multiple animal discounts and depending on my experiences with a previous purchaser I may give them a discount. Also though if I know someone is a flipper I will not generally give them a discount at a show.