Questions for the biology types.

I bought a 10 month old Royal female for my son in late May. Since then, I have become very interested in snakes, primarily the pythons and boas.

After reading up a bit I started to become interested in the differences and similarities between boas and pythons. From what I understand the pythons have an extra row of teeth, and additional bone in their skulls, and lay eggs as opposed to boas that give live birth.

I also read the 5 pits on each side of the python's snout are unique to pythons.

Do those pits make them more efficient at detection by heat?

Do boas have better vision than pythons?

I'm curious to know more about stuff like that and also a little more about royal pythons in the wild.

Most of what I read on B/P's is in regard to care and breeding and such.

Maybe the answer is a herpetology book, but if anybody wants to school a newbie in the similarities and differences between some of the less obvious characteristics of boas and pythons, I'd love to lear.

I'm not 100% sure but I believe that pythons have better "heat vision" and boas have better eye sight. I know that my Dumeril's boa seems to actively track things with her eyes while my BP's don't.

I tend to agree with what aaron said.

I also always notice people saying that their boas seem smarter, more curious, and are more aware of whats going on around them. Also better eaters.

I think this is probably due to boas having better eyesight and not just seeing heat. They are able to recognize you easier bc they can see you rather than just see a body of heat moving towards them. I mean both have really good scence of smell so they can probably both recognize you by that but overally boas can probably see more stuff whereas pythons just mainly see warm stuff and cold stuff. This may be why boas sometimes like to watch tv lol.

But Im not positive about this, more so just a hypothesis.

That seems like a decent start. My guess is boas being "new world" snakes are slightly less primitive? Only a guess, but it seems live young as opposed to egg laying shows some advancement.

I am not wanting to talk myself out of our B/P by any means, but I like some of the info on the boas as far as being inquisitive and having seemingly better vision.

I'd be interested to know in general if boas have bigger or better functioning brains. I have seen some huge beautiful pythons.

There is a tiger reticulated on you tube that is in my opinion one of the most beautiful snakes I've seen. I think it's a 21 footer and the owner takes her out to show some friends. Her head is huge, but I wonder how the brain compares to a huge boa. Obviously knowing size of subject doesn't equal huge brain

Just looking to find out more. I'll read as people answer. I'm really into this stuff now thanks to my son.

It's amazing how this hobby grabs hold of people. I was the same way, my girlfriend wanted a pet reptile so I started researching... We settled on a BP and were just going to focus on them but now we have more non-BP's than we have BP's.

Boas are definitely further down the evolutionary path. Better eyes, slightly more intelligent, and live young... As well as a few other things.

Oh, I don't think boas are more intelligent than Retics. From what I understand, reticulated pythons are quite a bit brighter than most other pythons, or, at least, their behavior suggests it.

There are trade-offs when it comes to live-bearing for reptiles, which is why most reptiles don't do it. It's not really a 'more evolved trait'. Birds are much further along the evolutionary ladder, and none of them are live-bearing. Even flightless birds lay eggs.

Better eyesight will make an animal seem more alert, reactive, and aware, but it doesn't actually indicate that it is smarter. Boas do have infrared vision--their heat pits are located between the labial scales, instead of in the center of them, as in pythons.

Of course, each individual species should be taken individually--I don't think a rosy boa shows any more intelligence or alertness than a ball python. The boa constrictor may be a bright animal, but I would guess that a retic gives it a run for its money in the brains department. The green anaconda, on the other hand, is not known for being brainy, or for having good eyesight, and it is a boa.

Yes pythons have "heat pits" while Boa's do not. And the cool thing is, pythons can switch from heat seeing, to regular eye sight voluntarily! I thought that was pretty cool. I agree with the guys before, Boa's do seem much more active/sqirmy lol but they're really awesome animals. Most boa's do tend to get bigger than ball pythons, but not monstrous. I mean a red tail boa can get around 10 feet but in my opinion they're one of the best, most docile pet snakes you can have. Along with Ball pythons of course :gj:

Looks like Mark O'Shea has a book out on the subject. I'm going to check out. I have to agree this is an interesting hobby.

I got a fever and the only cure is,, more cowbell. Little joke there,

I think the only cure is more knowledge.

What I don't want to do is regret buying the B/P. She's pretty cool and has been fine to handle. She's a bit stationary the last day which is probably good, but the kids like to watch her move, and for crying out loud if I hear I should have gotten a boa because they are better eaters, and just as easy to care for and handle I'll be a tad bummed out.

However maybe the saving grace is most (boas) get beyond the 6 foot limit I imposed here at the house.

BTW,
Thanks Aaron and Mike. Once again you guys rock.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Boas do have infrared vision--their heat pits are located between the labial scales, instead of in the center of them, as in pythons.

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Say whaaaaat? I did not know that. Learned something new today.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Looks like Mark O'Shea has a book out on the subject. I'm going to check out. I have to agree this is an interesting hobby.

I got a fever and the only cure is,, more cowbell. Little joke there,

I think the only cure is more knowledge.

What I don't want to do is regret buying the B/P. She's pretty cool and has been fine to handle. She's a bit stationary the last day which is probably good, but the kids like to watch her move, and for crying out loud if I hear I should have gotten a boa because they are better eaters, and just as easy to care for and handle I'll be a tad bummed out.

However maybe the saving grace is most (boas) get beyond the 6 foot limit I imposed here at the house.

BTW,
Thanks Aaron and Mike. Once again you guys rock.

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Whats the book called? Id like to read it too. I liked mark oshea and his show when he had it on AP!

Hog Island boas look similar to red tails if thats what youre looking for

I wouldn't be bummed about having a BP. I have both and love both for different reasons. You could always get another snake. ;) It happens to the best of us. As had been mentioned, it's quite addicting. I always want more! :P

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Hog Island boas look similar to red tails if thats what youre looking for

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What he's saying here, is if you want a boa but don't want the size, you could purchase a Hog Island or Caye Caulker boa (or other dwarf species). They have all the personality of a bigger boa, without the size. Ideal for someone with kiddos. ;)

Mike,

It's called Boas and Pythons of The World. I'm thinking about getting a copy from Amazon.

I'm learning new stuff here too. I'm glad I asked this question.

I agree taking things on a snake by snake basis is a good idea. I do want to generalize a bit and also go from there.

Good point on birds and eggs and evolution. Live young do come with a set of issues unique to the situation.

Also don't get me wrong I like our little BP. I'd love to see here reach 5+FT and show her curiosity a bit more often. It's only been a week and just because I'm excited doesn't mean I need to rush out and get a 12 FT whatever. But the bigguns are very interesting. We had options for Kings, Corns and Milks and my son said B/P so that's what we're into.

Cheers,
Gio

http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/boas_island.htm

Here is a link to a couple of dwarf boas with a little bit of information on them.

Thanks, I liked the dwarf red tail.

I think I'll be totally thrilled if our little female B/P hits 5FT. For us, that would be a big snake, and we were looking for the 4.5 to 6FT range, with a nice attitude.

If we get that I'm sure we'll all be happy.

But a 6-8 FT something would be pretty cool I gotta say.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Thanks, I liked the dwarf red tail.

I think I'll be totally thrilled if our little female B/P hits 5FT. For us, that would be a big snake, and we were looking for the 4.5 to 6FT range, with a nice attitude.

If we get that I'm sure we'll all be happy.

But a 6-8 FT something would be pretty cool I gotta say.

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Most male red tail boas stay in the 6-8foot range. A male bigger than that would be very rare

See,,,,,,,

now there you go tempting me : ) Well let's pretend our B/P is gonna be a 5 footer and the kids and I will be in total awe about the size and girth.

My wife would not be happy, at this point if we had something she new was going to be big. But I think secretly she is starting to like the new girl here. Very secretly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

Thanks, I liked the dwarf red tail.

I think I'll be totally thrilled if our little female B/P hits 5FT. For us, that would be a big snake, and we were looking for the 4.5 to 6FT range, with a nice attitude.

If we get that I'm sure we'll all be happy.

But a 6-8 FT something would be pretty cool I gotta say.

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Boa Constrictor Imperators from the following locales will normally be in the size range that you are considering:

-Panama
-Costa Rica
-Nicaragua
-Cancun
-Tarahumara
-Tamaulipas
-Caye Caulker
-Cayos Cochinos (Hog Island)
-Pearl Island
-Corn Island
-Sonora

Some others worth mentioning are:

-Dumerils Boa (male)
-Jungle Carpet Python (male)
-Iriyan Jaya Carpet Python

Just contributing to the idea that there is a huge range of reactiveness/alertness between individuals. I would say my carpet python is the most 'intelligent' but I don't have any sort of measurement used to come to this conclusion. She may just have the most sophisticated set of instincts. She is is the best at sneaking away unnoticed, can shoot 3 feet through plants and sticks to hit any rat in the perfect spot every time (always on the neck or over the eyes on the head), and it is amazing watching her eat a rat dangling in the air.

The dumeril's reacts instantly to the smell of rat in the room, but seems to have pretty horrible eyesight. She wont grab a rat until it's touching her on the nose, but she overcomes any issue with grabbing it strangely by just slamming it hard and using brute force.

The Balls have a pretty big range, some hit their rats with finesse, others are sloppy.. some find every possibly flaw in an enclosure to get out, others are perfectly content just to stay put.

Hard to measure intelligent in any animal that spends most of it's time with an extremely restricted environment, not only in captivity, but also in the wild. They don't need to be smart to survive, they just need to react appropriately to their environment.

I would think that alot depends on the snakes natural environment. For snakes, like BP's, that live mostly in the ground, and are primarily ambush predators, would have a more highly developed sense of heat detection and smell. Whereas arboreal and semi-arboreal species, that more actively hunt their prey in trees, or from low hanging branches, would have better vision. The fact that they are atracted to, and track motion, could make them seem more alert and intelligent. Ball Pythons, on the other hand, are just as alert, it's just that they don't have to move their head, because they can sense your location and movement because of their more prominent labial pits, which give them a 180 degree view.

Those are good points. I may see if I can actually find any studies on intelligence levels among pythons and boas.

It's interesting that marine biologists have done extensive work with octopi and found them to be very intelligent. I would like to find something similar with the pythons and boas.

I did mention the additional bone in the head of pythons vs boas. But I did not find where it was located or what it was for. Does anybody know? I just read they had 1 and an extra row of teeth.

My guess is that if I want anything beyond the O'shea book, I'll have to find a herp/herp biology book for a look further into the mysteries of the snakes we enjoy so much.

Was the conclusion that B/P's had decent vision, or was it the heat sensing and smell they relied on? I could swear I've seen our little BP's head out, then pop down when somebody comes into my son's room.

Thanks to all with insight. I'm enjoying the discussion and am learning from everybody here.

Oh, ball pythons don't have great vision, but they can still see. In fact, they can see some things that we cannot see.

Reptile eyes are very interesting. :)

Here is probably the best study I've found so far on vision. I'll continue to look, but from what I gather vision IS important to the B/P and they see day and night. The study is quite technical and I could use another read but if you are interested in this sort of thing it's worth a looksey : )


http://jeb.biologists.org/content/202/14/1931.full.pdf

The book by VPI (ball pythons) is a excellent all rounder for royals. It have very good research and has a chapter dedicated to senses. I highly recommend it.

Intelligence is hard to pin down. I have had lots of dealings with BCC not as a primary keeper but lots of time handling them and working with them. I find that royals kept in larger display type enclosures much like big boas often are. Show much wider range of responses than the ones in tub like enclosures. In general the ones I keep like this are less timid and more 'outgoing' and curious. For example with all mine I often add something new every few months a bit of rock, or branch, a new plant something. The ones I keep in a rack rarely show much interest where the enclosure ones almost alway do. My most curious snake (she has one eye and a very short tongue from a birth defect) will in 30 min be out day or night poking and prodding what ever it is. The others often wait till after dark to do so but they typically all do. I have often wondered if the environment plays a large part in the amount of non instinctive response.

I will check that book out. I keep digging around on the web and I found this, which seems to be from the same group that did the sight study.

http://www.rcreptiles.com/articles/s...hon-regius.pdf

I'm a long, long way off from being knowledgeable enough to stop reading care/husbandry articles but I'm so interested in the snake/snakes that I feel the need to "go BIO" and learn more.