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Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
A lot of people think butter and lessers are the same thing. Others think they are different.
I already have three lesser females, for breeding with killer bee or fire bee male (which I have yet to get) and also a pewter male.
I have a friend who is selling his butter het orange ghost female. I have no interest in orange ghost at the moment but it is a good deal.
What are you opinions, is it worth it to buy this snake too? Or will the combos look pretty much the same (i.e. Queen Bee vs. Butter Bumble bees etc.)
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungba
A lot of people think butter and lessers are the same thing. Others think they are different.
I already have three lesser females, for breeding with killer bee or fire bee male (which I have yet to get) and also a pewter male.
I have a friend who is selling his butter het orange ghost female. I have no interest in orange ghost at the moment but it is a good deal.
What are you opinions, is it worth it to buy this snake too? Or will the combos look pretty much the same (i.e. Queen Bee vs. Butter Bumble bees etc.)
In my opinion, they are the same morph, just different lines. I also believe that both make identical combos. But quality of the parent morphs will determine the offspring result.
I would base your judgement on how her quality is. If she is a superb example, then I would get her. If not, I would pass up the deal since you already have 3 lesser girls.
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They're the same mutation, however it's never a bad thing to diversify your bloodlines.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
If it's a nice snake and fits in your breeding plans(or not), why not pick it up? I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have 4 lesser/butters on hand, and after raising them up, if you decide you don't want/need that many, you can always sell one.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
In all honesty I would say no, I'd get something else you really like to diversify your collection.
And to answer your question, I know they are the same mutation I've produced many Lesser's that I easily could have sold as Butter's.
But thats me good luck with your decision.;)
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You can never have enough lessers/butters!!! Het hypo to boot if you think shes a good deal i would pick her up. Like Rob said you could always trade/sell one if you decide you want to change directions.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
pretty much the same, but you can never have too many females. never hurts picking up a female that you know about. so many times you get a 800 to 1000 gram female and find out she's a problem feeder. if it's a good deal, I would go for it.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesRkewl
Those both look like lessers to me
I too think they are the same morph but just two different lines.
I would say since you already have 3 lessers to pass on the butter and get something else. Unless youre getting the female for like $100, then in that case by all means get her lol.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesRkewl
Top lesser bottom butter. There is a slight difference in the morph, not a big enough difference for me to get a butter when I have a lesser.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesRkewl
Top is a lesser and bottom is a butter. I pretty confident. But I could be wrong
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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To me they are two lines of the same gene. I've seen Lessers that had that Butter look to them, and I've seen Butters that looked like Lessers. Six one, half dozen the other.
You'll always be able to find both smokin' and so-so examples of each line.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001
Top is a lesser and bottom is a butter. I pretty confident. But I could be wrong
You are correct.
I agree with the theory that they are two different lines of the same gene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesRkewl
You are correct.
I agree with the theory that they are two different lines of the same gene
Not every butter and lesser is that obvious to me. But I almost always see a settle difference in the gene. My butter for instance is a very cream color, very similar to the butter in the picture. The lesser seem a bit darker to me, at least from all the pictures I've seen so far.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesRkewl
Since there is so much variation within each line either could be either.
The colour and lightness will also change with the age of the snake.
Camera settings and lighting also play a major part in making morphs look different in different photos and the only real way to make an accurate colour comparison is to put the 2 snakes of the same age next to each other in the same shot.
There are just too many variables.
FWIW the bottom pic looks very much like my lesser.
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For me the factor would be the "het", 100% would be a go and get it IF she is a good looking girl:gj:
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesRkewl
this easy the top a lesser and the bottom a butter.
I have abutter and just hatched out 4/6 butter to normal ratio, I wish my friend would have and sell me a female that was a codom and het og lol cause I got a ghost male now. can only hope and wish to find something cheap at the oak pa show, and they willing to trade around some breeding size ablino gene snakes for the hatchling lol
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
So I don't understand the vastly different names for the combo morphs from both, if they are the same line. I mean, any line pastel with spider is bumble bee, right? So if lesser pastel spider is queen bee, then the name with butter pastel spider is butter bumble bee are they basically the same thing? Or were they considered different genes until very recently thus the old names stuck?
Also, you know the bug eyes from super lessers and super butters. Does that mean that a lesser butter has the same problem?
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungba
So I don't understand the vastly different names for the combo morphs from both, if they are the same line. I mean, any line pastel with spider is bumble bee, right? So if lesser pastel spider is queen bee, then the name with butter pastel spider is butter bumble bee are they basically the same thing? Or were they considered different genes until very recently thus the old names stuck?
Also, you know the bug eyes from super lessers and super butters. Does that mean that a lesser butter has the same problem?
They're "officially" different morphs founded by two different people. However, the vast majority of us believe they are the same genetic mutation. Just different lines of it.
And because they are both "officially" different morphs, they have different combo names.
And yes. Lesser Butters can get bug eyes.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabernet
Dont know who Paxton is but the other is listed as a Lesser;)
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl
Dont know who Paxton is but the other is listed as a Lesser;)
Yeah - I figured someone would cheat :P, but was too lazy to re-name her picture.
Paxton is ALSO a lesser - it was a trick question! :P
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabernet
Yeah - I figured someone would cheat :P, but was too lazy to re-name her picture.
Paxton is ALSO a lesser - it was a trick question! :P
My mojo look like everyones lesser and my lesser well, he is all his own.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabernet
Both!
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike41793
Both!
LOL - both are lessers!
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakesRkewl
top is a lesser and bottom is the butter
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabernet
LOL - both are lessers!
lol They look like the same morph to me. Ive seen lessers that look like butters and vice versa. There arent any differences between the 2 morphs since there are so many variations imo
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishboyUK
Since there is so much variation within each line either could be either.
The colour and lightness will also change with the age of the snake.
Camera settings and lighting also play a major part in making morphs look different in different photos and the only real way to make an accurate colour comparison is to put the 2 snakes of the same age next to each other in the same shot.
There are just too many variables.
FWIW the bottom pic looks very much like my lesser.
x2 :gj:
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not sure about comparing yours robin I know my butter as abuttery color too him but still darker than lessers I seen ( at shows) I just hatched out my first codoms this years and need to compare them once out of the egg lol.. I seen my butter get more of a yellow look to him as he gets older lol
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http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q...m/DSCN5155.jpg
Which is the snake on the right? The snake on the left is a combo.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Hey Everybody!
I have been wondering about this for a while now. I am looking to buy a lesser and a butter. Probably pastel butter and lesser. BUT, this thread has me thinking that it is not necessary as long as I got a very good representation of either with a pastel thrown in.
I eventually want to make my way toward some nuclear (Butter x Fire) morphs. I have looked at these on WoBP's and the fire lesser and fire butter do look different.
Has anyone experimented with these and can tell a difference once you start getting into the 3-4 gene territory.
I personally like butter just from the pics that I have seen. BUT, will a good lesser do/make the same things down the road?
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zues
Looks like a butter to me. More of that caramel brown that i don't see in lessers.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birt
Hey Everybody!
I have been wondering about this for a while now. I am looking to buy a lesser and a butter. Probably pastel butter and lesser. BUT, this thread has me thinking that it is not necessary as long as I got a very good representation of either with a pastel thrown in.
I eventually want to make my way toward some nuclear (Butter x Fire) morphs. I have looked at these on WoBP's and the fire lesser and fire butter do look different.
Has anyone experimented with these and can tell a difference once you start getting into the 3-4 gene territory.
I personally like butter just from the pics that I have seen. BUT, will a good lesser do/make the same things down the road?
The only reason the 2 combos look different on WOBP is probably due to the parent morphs looking different and/or on different ends of the spectrum. For example, the lesser can have a reduced pattern, while the butter have a busy pattern. And the fire in the nuclear vs fire lesser could look different and contribute differently in the offspring. Like one fire can be really blushed and flamed out, while the other is a sub par fire w/ little flames and blushing.
If you got two similar looking butter/lessers and bred them to the same fire, I bet the offspring will look alike.
And offspring in a single clutch can vary greatly as well..
In my opinion, a quality lesser can produce the same stuff as a quality butter.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birt
I personally like butter just from the pics that I have seen. BUT, will a good lesser do/make the same things down the road?
I think so. Here is my kingpin (lesser/pin) and personally I think she looks as good if not better than many of the butter/pin kingpins Ive seen.
http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/88170/7...l2E8YjTRJT.jpg
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by satomi325
The only reason the 2 combos look different on WOBP is probably due to the parent morphs looking different and/or on different ends of the spectrum. For example, the lesser can have a reduced pattern, while the butter have a busy pattern. And the fire in the nuclear vs fire lesser could look different and contribute differently in the offspring. Like one fire can be really blushed and flamed out, while the other is a sub par fire w/ little flames and blushing.
If you got two similar looking butter/lessers and bred them to the same fire, I bet the offspring will look alike.
And offspring in a single clutch can vary greatly as well..
In my opinion, a quality lesser can produce the same stuff as a quality butter.
OK, these are the slight differences I'm talking about.
Butter Pastel- More caramel and brownish
Lesser Pastel- Darker and more contrast
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birt
OK, these are the slight differences I'm talking about.
Butter Pastel- More caramel and brownish
Lesser Pastel- Darker and more contrast
Most of the lesser pastels pictured were much younger than most of the butter pastels pictured, which will make a difference. Also, bear in mind that the pastel genetics involved in each snake would have had just as much potential to affect the color and contrast of the animals.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birt
OK, these are the slight differences I'm talking about.
Butter Pastel- More caramel and brownish
Lesser Pastel- Darker and more contrast
I still stand by what I mentioned before that the look of the parents can be inherited visually in the offspring. And that's a huge factor when looking at different snakes. Especially ones that aren't related.
The Pastel butter in the link has more blushing, which is most likely the result of a blushed out pastel parent. The Lesser Pastel in the link could just be darker due to the lesser just being dark.
Like everyone else said, there are dark lessers. There are dark butters. There are yellow lesser and yellow butters. There are silvery lessers. There are silvery butters.There are light lessers. There are light butters.
I have a more creamy silver lesser compared to yellow brown lessers of others.
There is lots of visual variation in the two morphs. They are the same genetic mutation. They are compatible to make a super.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabernet
Is that a Platinum? *scratches head*. I have lessers that look just like the butters that have been posted here. I know we're supposed to say the light ones are lessers, and the darker/tan ones are butters, but the butters look no different from some of the lessers I have produced, and they were sired by lighter animals.
So, if you have a butter/lesser BEL, and breed it to a normal, do you get butters and lessers, or do you get hatchlings that run a spectrum from light to dark? That is the real test for whether this is a separate morph, or just a color-bred line.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion
Is that a Platinum? *scratches head*. I have lessers that look just like the butters that have been posted here. I know we're supposed to say the light ones are lessers, and the darker/tan ones are butters, but the butters look no different from some of the lessers I have produced, and they were sired by lighter animals.
So, if you have a butter/lesser BEL, and breed it to a normal, do you get butters and lessers, or do you get hatchlings that run a spectrum from light to dark? That is the real test for whether this is a separate morph, or just a color-bred line.
I've sent Ralph pictures of Paxton, and he's intrigued by him. He said he's the closest he's seen to a platinum, but doesn't believe that he is, but does believe there's something going on with him.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim
Easy!
Top one is low fat. The bottom is margarine. ;p
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birt
Looks like a butter to me. More of that caramel brown that i don't see in lessers.
When I bought her they said she was a lesser.
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim
lol epic!!!
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I tend to think they are the same, but this is an opportunity to show some pictures, sooooo....
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/peanut_4.jpg
and, yes, she was sold to me as a butter.:gj:
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim
lol!!
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion
I want to guess Lesser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satomi325
I want to guess Lesser
I'm guessing butter ;)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2
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Re: Have lessers, worth getting a butter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion
Hypo butter?
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