New(ish) Enclosure builder Looking for some Advice

Hello there, been away from herps for about 10 years now and just got back into it when my girlfriend surprisingly impulse bought a baby Ball at Petsmart a few weeks ago ( Don't get me started with the ethics behind that I was not really a fan but I must say the little guy is a voracious eater, reminds me of a retic my dad had when I was a kid, and I couldn't imagine finding a healthier snake in a chain store) On to the point here I'm looking to get away from our temporary housing as soon as possible. I really like the look of the Animal Plastics T-8's but there are some things I would like to change up to help the enclosure be more suited to our means. With that being the case I would rather just build my own if it is possible and with in a reasonable price.

I have been searching for a reasonable price on PVC sheeting and I can't find prices on a 4'x8'x1/2" sheet any where near what I have seen some claim they are getting it for. I keep finding people claiming to get sheets in the 80.00 to 120.00 range but everywhere I can find online and local seems to be 180.00 to 250.00. I can only figure I must be looking at the wrong material. I have been assuming XPVC is Extruded PVC sheeting and I have been assuming Type 1.

If anyone can enlighten me on the specific PVC sheets being bought in the 80-120 range or possibly if anyone in the North Texas ( DFW Metroplex) knows of a local supplier and can point me to the place to get it I would be greatly appreciative.

try http://www.repti-racks.com i saw it in a ad on kingsnake.com it said they were here in texas

edit: oops sorry thought you were looking for already made cages

I own a few T8's, and highly recommend them... what exactly do you want to change about them? AP is really cool about customizations... they might be able to help you out.

Here is a thread I wrote on them: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!

You should look for a sign shop local to you. most have large sheets of PVC available.

You can get 1/8" thick PVC sheets for much cheaper: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/She...YL9?Pid=search

I have to admit I have read and loved your Articles on the T-8 and Animal Plastics in general.

The main thing I would like to do is change the doors and build it with a heat panel on the top center line to help keep ambient temperatures in line. Being in Texas and and person who likes his AC this is a must as I don't think I will have the ability to have a dedicated reptile room for at least the next 6 to 8 months. I have never really liked sliding doors and while I have not seen any good pictures of their swing doors they don't seem to be very secure or sturdy from the limited pictures I can find so was planning on doing my own swing doors.

Another factor in all this is I do have access to a full shop so I have all the tools and most of the hardware ( glass, appropriate screws,nuts, bolts, ect) to build it myself for hopefully cheaper. I was really wanting to stick with the 1/2" thickness as to keep it sturdy enough to stack a second one on similar to how the AP enclosures can be stacked. While I understand the use behind the racks I just would rather lean more towards giving all my snakes a bit more room and have my eventual snake room look more like a home for them than a warehouse for me so aside from one or two eventual hatchling racks I plan on using full enclosures for all my snakes ( luckily I only have one at the moment and not planning on increasing that number too fast). So using full size enclosures I need to make the most of the space I have and stack them at least 2 high.

But again if it comes down to costing about the same as a complete T-8 setup ( actually already had your suggested setup as my price point thanks to your thread) then I will just end up buying a T-8 or T-10 from AP and doing the conversion work on it.

If you buy a heat panel, and have it shipped to AP they will install it and route a channel for the power cord.

Personally I wouldn't go with anything other than the sliding glass doors, they maximize viewing, slide really well, and if needed simply push up on them and they lift out of the tracks.

I have thought about making my own large enclosures (I too have access to a shop) when I get either a monitor lizard or a reticulated python. (I'm talking about a 8' x 4' x 4' or 12' x 4' x 4' cage)

what I am planning on doing is building an aluminum frame (welded or screwed together not sure which yet) using 3/4" box aluminum (6061 alloy). I would then skin the frame with 1/8" PVC sheets.

I'm glad my thread has been useful to you!

I agree, I'm just not into racks I would much rather have stacks of larger cages!

I will use them for hatchlings, but not much else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

If you buy a heat panel, and have it shipped to AP they will install it and route a channel for the power cord.

Personally I wouldn't go with anything other than the sliding glass doors, they maximize viewing, slide really well, and if needed simply push up on them and they lift out of the tracks.

I have thought about making my own large enclosures (I too have access to a shop) when I get either a monitor lizard or a reticulated python. (I'm talking about a 8' x 4' x 4' or 12' x 4' x 4' cage)

what I am planning on doing is building an aluminum frame (welded or screwed together not sure which yet) using 3/4" box aluminum (6061 alloy). I would then skin the frame with 1/8" PVC sheets.

I'm glad my thread has been useful to you!

I agree, I'm just not into racks I would much rather have stacks of larger cages!

I will use them for hatchlings, but not much else.

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That was pretty much my plan as well, to build a frame though I was thinking a bit more along the lines of using angel ( was thinking 2 inch angle, 1/4" stock) dropping 1/8" pvc sheets into each "window frame" but the cost of the aluminum and the extra work required seemed like over kill.

My worry about sliding doors has always been the track,most track is rather sharp and while I don't plan on dragging a snake out of it's enclosure I would like to remove any possible sharp area my snakes or anything else I decide to hold in an enclosure could accidentally catch itself on.

So it was in hopes trading a afternoon of sweat and work in the shop to get what was essentially a T-8 or T-10 ( not sure which I would want to order just yet, the extra height seems like it would be nice) about 100.00 bucks cheaper. That 100.00 is money I could put towards the next enclosure or future snakes or just about anything related to the hobby you know.

As an added note to my previous post my original thought was building 4 enclosures meant as "display" enclosures.

The center piece being 2 stacked 4'x2'x18", BP enclosures with a removable divider down the center. Flanked by two 2'x2x3' arboreal enclosures to hold GTP as I have had a love of them and desire to own a pair ever since I was little and out of all the snakes I have had I have never had any GTP.

With the entire thing containing a custom humidifier/ Rain system, and extra space in a low standing base for supplies. All built to be able to be taken apart and moved easily if / when it was needed.

There is nothing sharp about the tracks on my T8's, I'm not sure if AP makes them or if they buy them, but they are rounded plastic. The substrate dam is 2.5" tall, and completely blocks the tracks, so they can't even get to the tracks unless the glass is open/off

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/37518421.jpg

I don't think that the extra height is worth the cost, at least not for BP's

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aizkora

As an added note to my previous post my original thought was building 4 enclosures meant as "display" enclosures.

The center piece being 2 stacked 4'x2'x18", BP enclosures with a removable divider down the center. Flanked by two 2'x2x3' arboreal enclosures to hold GTP as I have had a love of them and desire to own a pair ever since I was little and out of all the snakes I have had I have never had any GTP.

With the entire thing containing a custom humidifier/ Rain system, and extra space in a low standing base for supplies. All built to be able to be taken apart and moved easily if / when it was needed.

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That does sound cool, if you want to get into GTP's, I suggest you pick up this book. I have it and it is a great read.

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...plete-chondro/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aizkora

That was pretty much my plan as well, to build a frame though I was thinking a bit more along the lines of using angel ( was thinking 2 inch angle, 1/4" stock) dropping 1/8" pvc sheets into each "window frame" but the cost of the aluminum and the extra work required seemed like over kill.

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I build competition robots, and all of the robot frames that I use are welded 3/4" 6061 Aluminum... so I already have the stuff laying around. Plus I'm talking about a cage for a retic/6 foot + monitor lizard, so the extra strength might be nice lol

For a BP, I would go with angle aluminum as well, riveted together.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0466.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

That does sound cool, if you want to get into GTP's, I suggest you pick up this book. I have it and it is a great read.

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...plete-chondro/

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Finally a better picture than what I could find of the door tracks , that definitely relieves my worries.

And I am happy to say I picked the book up a few years back and that along with my numerous field guides have seen enough wear from over reading I should probably buy new copies lol!

Yeah, if there is anything you want to see a picture of, let me know I can take some easy...

So, a follow up the I need to figure out and decide on regardless of what route I go is heating methods.

My reasoning behind the want for a heat panel is to maintain a proper ambiant heat. In this case I would still need some heat source to creat a hot side and cool side.

My plan was to centerline mount a heat panel on,the top so it extended into each side of the enclosure( similar to how AP mounts their flexwatt on bottom so that it heats both sides). I am assuming that with a proper controler having flex watt on bottom for a hot side and the heat panel on top for ambiant heat won't be a problem. If anything it will mean these two heat sources won't have to work as much as normal.

From what I have read the flexwatt by itself won't be enough to keep ambiant temps where they are needed, is this true? Or will they do the job at keeping the ambiant temp in line as well as providing a hot side to the enclosure?.

For the purpose of these questions assuming an AP T-8.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Yeah, if there is anything you want to see a picture of, let me know I can take some easy...

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I am curious about the "pegs" AP mentions for helping to stack the enclosures. Have been curious how they do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aizkora

So, a follow up the I need to figure out and decide on regardless of what route I go is heating methods.

My reasoning behind the want for a heat panel is to maintain a proper ambiant heat. In this case I would still need some heat source to creat a hot side and cool side.

My plan was to centerline mount a heat panel on,the top so it extended into each side of the enclosure( similar to how AP mounts their flexwatt on bottom so that it heats both sides). I am assuming that with a proper controler having flex watt on bottom for a hot side and the heat panel on top for ambiant heat won't be a problem. If anything it will mean these two heat sources won't have to work as much as normal.

From what I have read the flexwatt by itself won't be enough to keep ambiant temps where they are needed, is this true? Or will they do the job at keeping the ambiant temp in line as well as providing a hot side to the enclosure?.

For the purpose of these questions assuming an AP T-8.

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re-reading your thread on how to set up a t-8 answers this question.

Flexwatt (or any UTH) only heats the floor of the cage. It does not change the air temperature in the cage.

AP cages when ordered with flexwatt come with the flexwatt mounted on the right side of the bottom of the cage. I have them add a center mount since I use the divider.

You can see in this picture the outline and thermostat probe slot routed into the bottom of the cage for setting up the flexwatt on the right side of the cage:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0439.jpg

So mounting a heat panel in the center, regulated to 80 degrees will maintain the air temperature of the cage, and the flexwatt mounted on the right will create the basking temperature of 90 degrees.

To regulate both of them I would recommend the Herpstat 2 or Herpstat 4.

http://spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html

The Herpstat 2 is 2 completely separate thermostats in 1 box (2 probes, 2 set points, 2 outlets)

The Herpstat 4 is 4 completely separate thermostats in 1 box.

I use the herpstat 4 and love it

In this picture you can see how each of the 4 channels is set differently
http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/IMG_0342.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aizkora

I am curious about the "pegs" AP mentions for helping to stack the enclosures. Have been curious how they do it.

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There are 2 holes for pegs on the top and bottom of the cage. basically all they did was drill a hole through the top and bottom sheets of PVC. But the front sheet (the part with the rounded cut outs that sits right behind the glass) is directly under these holes.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/832c2a25.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/9af48198.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/photo1-1.jpg

Thank you very much for all the feed back, I really appreciate it. Did some more searching and finally found somewhere in Texas that sells PVC sheets at a price that would make it worth it but they are in south central Texas so after gas it just makes it a break even situation so looks like the girlfriend and I are going to pull the trigger tonight or tomorrow on a T8 with the sliding glass doors.

I don't think we plan on it for this one but if / when(more likely when) we buy a second one we were thinking of ordering it to be able to be split into 3 or 4 sections for young balls or other small snakes. What are your thoughts on that ?

I figured going different florescent lights , Found some very reasonable priced 6 and 8 inch ones that I have used before and asking them to cut out areas for 4inch Flexwatt instead of the 11 inch.

Just a thought, figured I would get your input on the capabilities of the T-8 since you have plenty of experience with them.

That would work. Here's how I would set it up:

Either 2 strips of 3" or 4" flexwatt or 1 strip of 11" flexwatt running on the bottom of the cage towards the back going the long way (48")

I would see if they would make the front sheet of PVC be seperated into 4 "windows" (that would be super easy for them... Takes about 5 minutes for someone who knows how to use the CAD software)

Order 3 dividers (if this is perminate have the cage set up so that the dividers have routed slots and screw holes)

For lighting either use smaller fluorescent tubes and have them cut out power cord holes or if you are handy with electronics wire up some LED strips.

I didn't even think about seeing if they would modify the doors, good call.

I was thinking about the 11" flexwatt along the back length but figured the 11" may be too much as it would be under almost 50‰ of each section at that point as compared to the roughly 20-25% the 11" occupies in each section of a normal split set up.

I also hadn't thought of using led strips that would be great for cutting down on power use as well as the life span of the lights themselves.

Will have to discuss this with my better half and see how much extra they would charge for the alterations.

So one last question here. Girlfriend and I pulled the trigger and ordered a T-8 "Aaron Special" One thing we didn't see was a place to request to alter the standard design, mainly moving the normal Flexwatt location from the side to the center for a divided set up. I sent a email afterward about it hoping to hear from them Monday.

So my question is how do you normally go about making that request and what has your experience been in regards to them contacting you about any emails?

Thanks 100 times over for all the help you have been. Definitely earn your status as friendly and helpful on these forums, My Girlfriend, Houdini and myself greatly appreciate it.

No problem, I'm glad I could help.

Once they process your order they will send you an invoice for you to approve before they start. At this time you will be able to ask for the modifications.

I would also call them (their number can be found on their website. (they are in the US central time zone so their business hours are a few hours shifted for me down here in Florida... Not sure If you are in central time or not, just thought I would mention it.

Picked Up a pair of acurites yesterday and have a simple thermostat ready until I have the funds to order a herpstat in a few weeks, so now I am just waiting to hear back from AP to confirm the order placed.

Also picked up an additional inhabitant for the T-8 this weekend from the great guys at Priceless Pythons. A 226g male Bumble Bee, just going through the quarantine process for a few weeks before he will join what we now think is our baby Female normal.

Already toying with ideas for a second and third AP enclosure. Again thank you for the help.