Temps too low?

In a 30 gallon glass tank, I've got a UTH and a blue 75 watt light over the hot side where the temperature is 82. On the cool side, the temp is 72-75. (fluctuates with the room temp) I've got identical hides on each side, and he always goes to the hide on the cool side. Even if I put him on the warm side, he won't stay for long before he makes his way to the other one.

I've read alot of the posts here and it seems the recommended temp on the hot side is upwards of 90, but could it be that he prefers the cooler temp and I don't need to adjust it? He never goes over to the warm side.

Also, what do you think of the blue light on all the time? Thank you for your help.

Humidity level is at 55%, by the way :)

I would definitely boost the temps in the cage. The temps you quoted are good nighttime temps, but should be a little warmer for day, which will also help you avoid reptile health problems. If you can add a red light over the other side of the cage (50-75 watts), that will bring the temps up nicely but you may have to make some adjustments to get your humidity fixed again.

The higher temps are also needed for proper digestion. It is quit possible that he will venture to the warm side when you're not looking (at night while you're asleep, while you're out). Shoot for 90 (as high as 95) on the warm side and 80-85 on the cool side - these are daytime temps. It's not required that you have a drop in temps at night, but if you do make sure there is still a gradient provided and that the temps on the cool side do not go below 75 (72 at the most).

He may never go to the warm side because of the light......I have found that ball pythons are very shy and light bothers them. Thats why I use heating pads for all of my snakes.....the human kind from wal-mart (no auto shutoff).

I've used both the moonlight and infrared heat lights. If you suspect he may not like the light you might try the infrareds.

This is very frustrating. I bought a 12 x 14 human heating pad, set on Med., and put it under the hot end of the tank, and I moved the smaller reptile UTH over to the cool side. I took out most of the repti-bark and laid down newspaper. And I'm still using the 75 watt blue bulb, but the temp's not getting over 80 during both the day and night on the hot end now. It's 72 on the cool end.

I don't understand. Should I turn up the setting on the heating pad to high (I'm pretty sure it would burn him if he somehow gets under the newspaper which is taped down) or buy another pad for under the cool side? I know someone here is only using the heating pads for warmth and it's working for them.

Danielle,

With my experience, a 10 to 20 gallon UTH (with 2 inches of substrate) has a surface temp of around 88 to 90 degrees. In my Crotalus tigris enclosure, I have a 15 watt bulb (to add light; no other reason than that) and a 10 to 20 gallon UTH. His enclosure is a 20 gallon tall.

The surface temp (right above the UTH, with 2 inches of bark as substrate) is around 90 to 95 degrees.

I do know that a 75watt lightbulb reaches temperatures of over 150 degrees farenheit (sp?).

I will take some readings and some pictures, and then will post the results.

Sit tight. ;)

Dustin

Okay. I did some research, and all I can say (pardon my french) is holy sh!t (you'll see why).

Here is a picture of the enclosure:
http://img3.photobucket.com/albums/v...Camera-039.jpg

Here are the temps:
1. A 60 watt, blue reptile bulb surface temperature (after being on for only 5 minutes):
http://img3.photobucket.com/albums/v...Camera-042.jpg
Yes, that says 270.5 degrees fahrenheit. <-------------------------------

2. A 15 watt soft white lightbulb surface temperature:
http://img3.photobucket.com/albums/v...Camera-043.jpg
Crazy. 128.5 degrees fahrenheit.

3. Inside the enclosure, above one of the corners of the UTH (not directly above it):
http://img3.photobucket.com/albums/v...Camera-044.jpg
91 degrees fahrenheit.

4. Inside the enclosure, on the cool end.
http://img3.photobucket.com/albums/v...Camera-046.jpg
78.5 degrees fahrenheit.

Now, to answer your question, you probably are already overheating your snake. I'm not accusing you because I don't know everything about your enclosure setup, but I do know that two UTH and a heat bulb (especially a 75 watt) you are going to over heat your snake.

YOU MUST HAVE SOMETHING BETWEEN THE GLASS ABOVE THE UTH AND THE SNAKE.

Newspaper won't cut it, especially if your UTH isn't on a rheostat. I suggest using bark; something that the snake won't bury itself in. If you don't have access to that, then put a folded up towl inside the tank over the UTH. My favorite substrate is bark. Go to Home Depot, Lowes (or the like) and you can find bags of bark for $3.00. I'm talking big bags. I filled a 50 gallon, 20 gallon, 30 gallon rubbermaid, and two smaller rubbermaids with one bag; and I have extra left! I bought 3 bags thinking it wouldn't be enough... LOL Another thing to not do is put the heat pad inside the tank. I know you probably already know this, but this can't be emphasized enough. Oh yea, DO NOT BUY ANYTHING THAT CONTAINS CEDAR. You MUST also watch out for the bags of bark that have all kinds of wood inside. Let me explain. A bunch of wood goes into a grinder and makes the bags that they sell. Stay away from this. I have used it for my rats and I have found nails inside. It also contains stained woods. <-- Bad. Sorry about my grammar, I don't feel like making it all pretty. I have to get some work done and I decided to help out. Damn fiance, always getting me into crap LOL (her name on this forum is emroul)...

If you have any questions, ask. Someone will help. If you need futher help, my email is dustin@diapsid.com.

Later,
Dustin

Hey there, Danielle
I too am using a 30 gallon glass. Actually it's a 29 tall, but you get the idea. I have a 100w infrared with a simple stainless clamp lite housing. it sits on top of the screen which is mostly duct taped except for a circle slightly larger than the clamp light. With the light being on the OUTSIDE of the tank, my temps at the ends never get above 82. Directly under the bulb, it hits 90 to 93. My cool end is just outside of the beam with a hide and driftwood for the basking that we all know never happens, with no UTH. This keeps the cool end to about 80 with a drop to 78 at night. The warm end is the same temp, but there is a UTH and a hide, with surface temp pegged at 90 and holding with help from a dimmer.
So I've got a lit basking spot that hits 90, and a warm hide that is 90 with ambient air temp being roughly 78-81 throughout enclosure.
Yes the surface of the bulb is hot as the hinges of hell, but on top of a screen and not inside the tank, and I lose 90% of my heat straight out the top of the lamp. If I don't duct tape during winter, I lose all heat, all humidity. All I get is one 90 degree spot from the beam and the sides are at a shaky 70 (it's winter).
So, Diapsid, now you've got me paranoid..........outside of a too hot UTH and ambient air temp of like 100, how do you overheat your snake? Wouldn't he move if he started feeling too hot?(not on tummy, I know they have trouble with that) I feel good about my setup, he's eaten, digested, even when I think he spends too much time cool, he'll go to the other side, warm up, and vice versa.
I just don't see how I can overheat him. Glass is so hard to heat and keep humidity, that I need the 100w just to keep air temps eight to ten degrees warmer than my house. :?
I guess roasting him would require the bulb being fixed to the ceiling on the inside.................

Danielle, I am curious where you are measuring temperatures, and what you are using to do so? You have to remember that the snake is in contact with the floor, so you have to measure temps on the floor. The temps you are writing sound more like air temps mid tank to me. Also, if you are using a cheap or well used thermometer, they can go bad and be WAY off.

Steelsack, I'm guessing you have a screen lid for the tank, correct? Because I didn't know exactly what enclosure Danielle has, I tried to make a general statement. As far as the screen tops go, the bulb sitting on top is fine. And most likely, it has to be a high wattage to get the heat up because you are always losing it. In my rattlesnake enclosure, the lid is made of peg board. This keeps the humidity up and the temps warm. It allows for optimum air flow while keeping what needs to stay in. I learned this from a local reptile store (Arizona Reptile Center). It works really well. Steelsack, you have nothing to worry about. Your enclosure sounds good. The only thing I would make sure, like I said before, is to make the substrate so the reptile can't come in contact with the glass above the UTH. I've taken temps and they usually go over 110 degrees. It won't hurt them for short term contact, I'm sure, but if in contact a lot it could burn them. And not to offend you of course, I'm sure you know what you are doing.

Dustin

Yup, it's a screen lid. I have a sweet little dimmer hooked up to the UTH that I use to insure against burns. Took me a couple days of fine tuning, but I eventually found the mark that holds the UTH at 91 to 92. The dimmer came with a light built in that gets brighter as you decrease the juice which helps to give you a visual indicator that it's functioning. Of course that's never good enough and I am a compulsive surface temp checker :roll:
LOL Don't be concerned about offense.....any info given on these threads helps countless people on many levels of expertise. I'm not one to get huffy...........such a great community, I'm sure no one means any malice :D

You have a rattler? cool! what kind? they're beautiful animals........kinda "hands off", tho :shock:

Daniel, Zeus's cage temps range from 75 on the cool side to 84 degrees on the hot side (without the lamp on) to 90 degrees (with the lamp on. Zeus loves the cool whenever he is not digesting any food. I tried to keep his cool side at 80 and his warm side at 90, and noticed the he was not as happy as he was when the temps were cooler.Hope this helps.

RPlank, yes, I was measuring temps at mid-height. I never thought to measure the surface temp, but I will right away.

I had already turned off the light about three hours ago, and I just measured the temp right above the layer of reptile bark, which sits on top of the folded newspaper - it was 95!

So, I turned the setting to low and added some more bark just to be on the safe side. I'll check the temp again in about an hour.

So...if the surface temps are okay, then do I still need a lower-wattage heat light to increase the ambient air temperature, or will just the heating pads be okay?

Someone, I forget who asked about the setup...it's a 30 gallon tall glass tank with a screen lid. I put duct tape over about 4/5 of the lid to hold in the humidity. Big bowl of water in the middle, a hide at each end. I have one very small UTH (belonged to a baby corn snake) on the cool side and a people heating pad on the warm side, both are definitely under the tank, and newspaper is taped to the inside botton with an inch of bark over top of that.

He's been out and about since I ditched the blue light. I've never seen him so active. As soon as I took the lid off to check the temperature, he was making a break for the top of the cage.

I feel like such a numskull, but thank guys.

If your surface temps are good, I wouldn't worry too much about ambient temps, as long as they are not freezing! Your BP spends 99% of his time on the floor, so gets his heat from there via the belly. 95 isn't necessarily too hot, but it wouldn't hurt to lower it a tad.

Yea, what Randy said. I've never worried about ambient air temperatures; just the temp of the surfaces (the light doesn't necessarily need to be checked; this is why a lot of snakes get burnt though [if they have access to the lightbulb]). 95 should be the highest you go with ball pythons. 90 to 92 on the warm side should work. Of course, I'm going by The Snake Keepers recommendations. 80 on the cool side, 90 on the warm side.

Dustin