Can I attatch my ZooMed Heat pad directly to tub?

Not sure if this is the right place to p[ost this, if it's not I'm sorry. You think it will be ok to attach my ZooMed heating pad directly to the underside of a sterilite tub?

Yes, if it is on a thermostat. If not it can melt the tub and burn your animal.

It's being hooked up to a Hydrofarm thermostat...Now that I think about about it, I hate for it to be attached to it permanantly. Seems like that could be annoying when cleaning, or if i decide I want to use it on a different tub. I wonder if maybe I could stick the mat to a piece of Heavy Duty aluminum foil the same dimensions as the mat then just sit the tub on the mat. You think that would work?

Also, concerning the probe for my thermostat...Should I place it directly between the heat pad and the tub or inside the tub?

If you stick it to the outside underneath, its not permanent. They do peel off, although the adhesive wears down over time. Putting foil on it might mess the temp probe up, but I'm not sure about that.

You can attach it with duct tape instead. Don't use the adhesive peel that comes with the ZooMed pads. The only reason they put that adhesive there is so you won't be able to re-use them and you'll need to buy another. Once it's on there, it's very difficult to remove without causing the product to malfunction and heat unevenly.

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Originally Posted by moonlightgdess

If you stick it to the outside underneath, its not permanent. They do peel off, although the adhesive wears down over time. Putting foil on it might mess the temp probe up, but I'm not sure about that.

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Ok thats cool. I guess I'll just wait till that happens and then maybe use that foil tape to attach it back. Where do I attach the temp probe?

It's already attached rebel. It doesnt really seem like the adhesive is all that strong though tbh.

It isn't strong at all, the problem is that taking it off will make it unfit for use according to most. As long as you're not planning on taking it off and re-using it, it should be okay. (There are tutorials for doing it without ruining the UTH, though: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...o-Remove-a-UTH! )

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Originally Posted by Hellacious

Where do I attach the temp probe?

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I would put it inside the tub, on the floor above the UTH.

Ok. The thermostat probe I put between the mat and the tub. The temp probe I placed inside the tub over the uth like you said. I have the Thermostat set to 91 degrees and the temp inside the warm hide is holding 90-91 degrees....cool side is 79 degrees.

Its funny, I've never used a thermostat on a uth. They seem to keep a very constant temp. They're designed to be used on the underside of an aquarium and heat through a substrate. I have never heard of a fire from a uth when used properly. Hopefully your thermostat can handle long term constant on position without burning up.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

Hopefully your thermostat can handle long term constant on position without burning up.

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Funny, I was going to say the same thing about your unregulated UTH...

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

Its funny, I've never used a thermostat on a uth. They seem to keep a very constant temp. They're designed to be used on the underside of an aquarium and heat through a substrate. I have never heard of a fire from a uth when used properly. Hopefully your thermostat can handle long term constant on position without burning up.

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It's more likely your snake will catch fire from your unregulated UTH


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?t0t2gi

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

Its funny, I've never used a thermostat on a uth. They seem to keep a very constant temp. They're designed to be used on the underside of an aquarium and heat through a substrate. I have never heard of a fire from a uth when used properly. Hopefully your thermostat can handle long term constant on position without burning up.

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I have never seen an unregulated ZooMed NOT be over 100F at any given time.:confused::confused: You, sir, are either very lucky, very untruthful, or very, very close to disaster.

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Originally Posted by rebelrachel13

I have never seen an unregulated ZooMed NOT be over 100F at any given time.:confused::confused: You, sir, are either very lucky, very untruthful, or very, very close to disaster.

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I've measured them over 125 degrees before....why am I lucky? what do you plan to catch on fire at 125 degrees? I have never ever seen zoo med or any of the other manufacturers state a max temp for them, never heard of a failure(fire) where they received circulating air flow and never saw a burn on a animal from them where it wasn't in direct contact with them.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

It's more likely your snake will catch fire from your unregulated UTH


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?t0t2gi

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maybe if its eats beans first.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Funny, I was going to say the same thing about your unregulated UTH...

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they're designed to stay on. A thermostat is designed to cycle.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

never saw a burn on a animal from them where it wasn't in direct contact with them.

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here you go...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...graphic)/page3

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

they're designed to stay on. A thermostat is designed to cycle.

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What do you mean by that?

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

here you go...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...graphic)/page3

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I see a post that is hearsay(a post about another post) that says it was caused by a heat pad. Looks like a typical heat rock injury to me. Heat rocks are known to malfunction.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

What do you mean by that?

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which word did you not understand?

I could pull up hundreds of threads on this site alone where someone has an unregulated UTH and it burned their snake, it is common knowledge in the reptile community.

By your own admission they can get up to at least 125 degrees...

it takes about 15 seconds for a human to get a second degree burn from 125 degree water... so what do you think that will do to a cold blooded snake sitting on it for hours? common sense says that the snake will get burned.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

which word did you not understand?

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I understand the words, I don't understand the point that you are trying to make with that statement.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I could pull up hundreds of threads on this site alone where someone has an unregulated UTH and it burned their snake, it is common knowledge in the reptile community.

By your own admission they can get up to at least 125 degrees...

it takes about 15 seconds for a human to get a second degree burn from 125 degree water... so what do you think that will do to a cold blooded snake sitting on it for hours? common sense says that the snake will get burned.

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it won't be 125 degrees once it passes through glass and substrate.

You might lose 5 degrees going through the glass, that is still 120... more than hot enough to burn a snake. Substrate is irrelevant as a snake can burrow/get under it and lay directly on the floor of the cage.

a BP can sustain neurological damage at 108 degrees...

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

You might lose 5 degrees going through the glass, that is still 120... more than hot enough to burn a snake. Substrate is irrelevant as a snake can burrow/get under it and lay directly on the floor of the cage.

a BP can sustain neurological damage at 108 degrees...

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I guess they should lay their cage out better then.

I bet if I take a heat pad, place it under a tank, plug it directly into the wall, place repti carpet and then a piece of slate over it(rock)...I'll bet the rock and area around it will be lucky to hit 100 degrees.

But why not just get a thermostat and keep the UTH at a safe temperature? they really aren't that expensive... say the average BP lives 20 years... Say you get a good thermostat... the herpstat 1 (retails for $139.00) that means that over the life of the snake, does $139 really matter? that is $6.95 a year.

And a proportional thermostat will increase the lifespan of a UTH. UTH's are basically giant resistors. The number 1 cause of premature failure of resistors is overheating... just like almost every other electrical component.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

I bet if I take a heat pad, place it under a tank, plug it directly into the wall, place repti carpet and then a piece of slate over it(rock)...I'll bet the rock and area around it will be lucky to hit 100 degrees.

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Sure. Just don't try it with a snake in there. :P

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Originally Posted by rebelrachel13

Sure. Just don't try it with a snake in there. :P

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I don't need to "try" it. I'm sure its been done by me throughout the last 20+ years at some point in time.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

But why not just get a thermostat and keep the UTH at a safe temperature? they really aren't that expensive... say the average BP lives 20 years... Say you get a good thermostat... the herpstat 1 (retails for $139.00) that means that over the life of the snake, does $139 really matter? that is $6.95 a year.

And a proportional thermostat will increase the lifespan of a UTH. UTH's are basically giant resistors. The number 1 cause of premature failure of resistors is overheating... just like almost every other electrical component.

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Nothing lasts forever. A pad will eventually wear out. No guarantee that regulating voltage will make the pad last longer.

And many people in the industry would have a big problem paying $140 to regulate a $20-30 pad. Personally I like heat regulated rooms, decent sized cages and hot spots created from above whenever possible. I'm looking at a new heating system for my room that will heat or cool as necessary. I'm spending a mere $900 on the setup which will create my ambient cage temps. People need to invest or take risks as they deem fit.

This is pretty entertaining so I thought I would join in. Think about bet bills when your heater over heats. That $140 thermostat would pay for itself if that happened....

Anyway! Back on topic to the OP's question. Why not just leave the cover over the adhesive on the uth and then use foil tape to tape it to the tub. Then you can take it off without damaging it =)

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Originally Posted by Scubaf250

This is pretty entertaining so I thought I would join in. Think about bet bills when your heater over heats. That $140 thermostat would pay for itself if that happened....

Anyway! Back on topic to the OP's question. Why not just leave the cover over the adhesive on the uth and then use foil tape to tape it to the tub. Then you can take it off without damaging it =)

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I stuck it to the tub yesterday...Too late. All is well though.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

I guess they should lay their cage out better then.

I bet if I take a heat pad, place it under a tank, plug it directly into the wall, place repti carpet and then a piece of slate over it(rock)...I'll bet the rock and area around it will be lucky to hit 100 degrees.

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The OP is NOT speaking of a tank. A plastic tub has next to no insulative value. There is likely to be little loss of heat to the tub so you are relying on just the (MOVABLE) substrate to protect the OPs snake. That is irresponsible. I might concede that a UTH on a tank with carpet and rocks might not exceed 100ºs but that is NOT what was described. You do understand that Royals cannot digest food if their core temp is to high or too low right? The OP does not have regulated rooms or over head heat just a single snake and a plastic tub. Even if you don't need a t-stat (I disagree but...) he/she does.

Thermal burns are the NUMBER ONE injury for captive reptiles. Thermostats are the primary defence against this occurring. Cycling a resistive heater should do less harm that running it 100% 24/7.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Cycling a resistive heater should do less harm that running it 100% 24/7.

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if kept within proper voltage specs, a resistor should hold constant practically forever. Heating them up and cooling them down is what causes them to fail over time. However, a switch, manual or electronic, that holds a constant tend to fail.(from dirt build up, heat, corrosion etc).

Plastic holds a higher R value than glass.

BTW since this is a tub, how does the OP intend to get proper airflow to the pad since most don't have a deep recess on the bottom to allow clearance?

Do you even know how proportional thermostats work? There are no "switches" envolved.

On/offstage thermostats do use relays, so yes over time they will wear out, but they are considerably cheaper.

The temperature of a resistor is greatly influenced by the ambiant temperature around it. So unless the room stays constant the temperature of a UTH will change. Zoo-Med themselfs admit that a thermostat is necessary in rooms over 80 degrees. That proves that the temperature is dependent on the ambiant temperature.

Look to be within the safe/ideal range you have to lower the temperature of a UTH by at least 30 degrees. No single pane of glass or sheet of plastic commonly used in the reptile industry is capable of that, heck my cages that are made of 1/2" thick PVC can't do that.

A proportional thermostat varies the temperature slightly, even the cheaper pulse proportional thermostats and high end on/off style thermostats do this. Large temperature swings aren't great, but the point of a good thermostat is to keep the temperature constant. So there isn't going to be more than a few degrees in temperature flux.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

BTW since this is a tub, how does the OP intend to get proper airflow to the pad since most don't have a deep recess on the bottom to allow clearance?

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If a UTH is on a good thermostat with the probe directly on the UTH there is no need for air flow over the UTH as any build up in temperature will be detected by the thermostat and power going to the UTH will be reduced maintaining the proper temperature.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Do you even know how proportional thermostats work? There are no "switches" envolved.

On/offstage thermostats do use relays, so yes over time they will wear out, but they are considerably cheaper.

The temperature of a resistor is greatly influenced by the ambiant temperature around it. So unless the room stays constant the temperature of a UTH will change. Zoo-Med themselfs admit that a thermostat is necessary in rooms over 80 degrees. That proves that the temperature is dependent on the ambiant temperature.

Look to be within the safe/ideal range you have to lower the temperature of a UTH by at least 30 degrees. No single pane of glass or sheet of plastic commonly used in the reptile industry is capable of that, heck my cages that are made of 1/2" thick PVC can't do that.

A proportional thermostat varies the temperature slightly, even the cheaper pulse proportional thermostats and high end on/off style thermostats do this. Large temperature swings aren't great, but the point of a good thermostat is to keep the temperature constant. So there isn't going to be more than a few degrees in temperature flux.

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is the OP using an on/off or a proportional?
:D:D

if they aren't using a proportional, does it even matter to even discuss?

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

If a UTH is on a good thermostat with the probe directly on the UTH there is no need for air flow over the UTH as any build up in temperature will be detected by the thermostat and power going to the UTH will be reduced maintaining the proper temperature.

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we already discussed that you don't put the sensor on the heat dource directly on another post. Tired of beating the dead horse.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Do you even know how proportional thermostats work? There are no "switches" envolved.

On/offstage thermostats do use relays, so yes over time they will wear out, but they are considerably cheaper.

The temperature of a resistor is greatly influenced by the ambiant temperature around it. So unless the room stays constant the temperature of a UTH will change. Zoo-Med themselfs admit that a thermostat is necessary in rooms over 80 degrees. That proves that the temperature is dependent on the ambiant temperature.

Look to be within the safe/ideal range you have to lower the temperature of a UTH by at least 30 degrees. No single pane of glass or sheet of plastic commonly used in the reptile industry is capable of that, heck my cages that are made of 1/2" thick PVC can't do that.

A proportional thermostat varies the temperature slightly, even the cheaper pulse proportional thermostats and high end on/off style thermostats do this. Large temperature swings aren't great, but the point of a good thermostat is to keep the temperature constant. So there isn't going to be more than a few degrees in temperature flux.

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if they can turn on and off, they use some variation of a current interrupting device (aka a switch). A relay is essentially a switch that cuts a power source when another source causes it to.(or vice versa)

I'm sorry but how does putting the probe in the tub/cage fix the hot spot issue? You are still only measuring one spot... So other areas could be hotter or colder than the spot where the probe is.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

if they can turn on and off, they use some variation of a current interrupting device (aka a switch). A relay is essentially a switch that cuts a power source when another source causes it to.(or vice versa)

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Ok, I try to keep things non-technical, but for this I have to get technical...

Most if not all thermostats use Triac's to control the output. The Triac has a gate that allows current to pass through or stops the flow of current. When you apply a trigger pulse at a controlled phase angle on an AC cycle, you can control the % of power that flows through like a flood gate. This is called a phase fired controller. Basically it is a self synchronized PWM (pulse width modulation) by syncing the gate signal with the input signal (AC sinwave) you can control the output with great precision.

All of this is solid state... No moving parts, nothing just semi conductive materials and physics. If solid state devices wore out easily (due to heat cycles or turning on/off rapidly) computers could not exist. A Triac will not wear out ever... Something else will break before it does.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Ok, I try to keep things non-technical, but for this I have to get technical...

Most if not all thermostats use Triac's to control the output. The Triac has a gate that allows current to pass through or stops the flow of current. When you apply a trigger pulse at a controlled phase angle on an AC cycle, you can control the % of power that flows through like a flood gate. This is called a phase fired controller. Basically it is a self synchronized PWM (pulse width modulation) by syncing the gate signal with the input signal (AC sinwave) you can control the output with great precision.

All of this is solid state... No moving parts, nothing just semi conductive materials and physics. If solid state devices wore out easily (due to heat cycles or turning on/off rapidly) computers could not exist. A Triac will not wear out ever... Something else will break before it does.

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so by your explanation and theory they should never break or wear out...:rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I'm sorry but how does putting the probe in the tub/cage fix the hot spot issue? You are still only measuring one spot... So other areas could be hotter or colder than the spot where the probe is.

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I've gone and dug out my zoo med Rh-4 UTH and my pyrometer. I'll post the average temp found in 15 minute increments for one hour. Will that suffice?

I don't see how that will measure the hot spot issue... And those things take days to get to their max temperature.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I don't see how that will measure the hot spot issue... And those things take days to get to their max temperature.

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set a time frame. I want to settle this.

I still don't understand the exact purpose for this test, but I would say that a week with temps measures a few times a day would yield an accurate data set.

:confused:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I still don't understand the exact purpose for this test, but I would say that a week with temps measures a few times a day would yield an accurate data set.

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right off the bat we are all speculating what temps will transfer through the tub and exactly what kind of temps the pad will generate.

I've had pads fail. When they do, they stop working and go cold. I can't see this as a burn issue for a tub or a snake. However max temp and its impact is.

I've used these pads unregulated on roach bins without issue of a melted anything. Worst case scenario is the room goes warm and pad temp climbs, but does it reach a max? I have this in my sun room and in the next few days it should see temps from low 80's to mid to high 90's. (currently at 85)

so rather than bicker and argue we can see what happens.

pad is a zoomed rh-4
tub is a sterlite 28 qt
I will measure max temp found in the tub and then the temp of the bottom of the pad and compare.

This plastic does not melt at 140 degrees. So I feel safe from a fire but just in case there is a smoke alarm nearby.

You say 108 will fry the snake. Let's see if we get the temp and go from there.