Starter Morph Selection

Hey Everyone,

I already have a normal female, and I am wanting to get a male morph to start breeding down the road.

I am wanting to spend about $400 tops.

I have found 3 snakes around my price range and have been playing with all kinds of options way down the road with the Genetic Wizard.

MY choices are

Pastave
or
Spider Het Ghost
or
Spider Het Albino

I was just wanting some advice on which would be best and make the most combos.

I personally love the spiders going to ghosts then all of the Bee morphs. But, that would require me to pick up a pastel.

I have found the Pastave will have the most options and eventually lead to a Blue Eyed Lucy, and would require me to get spider down the road for all the Bee's and I could have alot more to play with with the Co-Doms.

Also the Spider het Albino could make some cool stuff and I would still have to buy a pastel down the road to get some Bee's.

And thoughts or suggestions are much appreciated.:D

any of those are great choices. recessive genes can make things complicated especially if you are just starting out, but if you are willing to deal with it, then they can be very rewarding.

Personally I would go with the Pastave but you should work with whatever you think is cool.

I vote spider het ghost. The pastave does lead to a BEL, but it will also wipe the pattern out of a ton of combos unless you have a blacklight handy. The same (but to a lesser degree) with albinos. I personally think it takes the wow factor out of all but a few combos.

Pastave bc otherwise when you breed the male to your normal you will end up with poss hets. Plus pastaves are sweet looking!

You might be able to pick up a male bumblebee for that kind of cash. Haven't priced them lately, but I know they've dropped quite a bit.

Out of that list, I'd got with the pastave. The others would require you to hold back all the females as 50% possible hets to breed to dad and try to prove them out.

You could always pick up a baby female spider (or bumblebee) for him on down the road, and make some nice combos there too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aalomon

I vote spider het ghost. The pastave does lead to a BEL, but it will also wipe the pattern out of a ton of combos unless you have a blacklight handy. The same (but to a lesser degree) with albinos. I personally think it takes the wow factor out of all but a few combos.

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Ok, But the first Pastave with a normal would have 25% chance of pastel, so that could branch off into a non wiping of the patterns with that. Then, work on Mojave's, Pastel's, and Pastave's together for Supers and BUL. Just my ideas.

Seems like the pastave would allow for the most options and only require me to pick up a spider down the road for my FAV Bee's. But, the het ghost can get me some Ghost Spiders and Ghost's so I just have to get a pastel for a bunch of combos.

I Guess I'm torn between those 2 options. It seems either way i will have to get a pastel or a spider down the road.

I appreciate your feedback : )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shadera

You might be able to pick up a male bumblebee for that kind of cash. Haven't priced them lately, but I know they've dropped quite a bit.

Out of that list, I'd got with the pastave. The others would require you to hold back all the females as 50% possible hets to breed to dad and try to prove them out.

You could always pick up a baby female spider (or bumblebee) for him on down the road, and make some nice combos there too.

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Nice points : )

Also, The best prices I found on Bee's is around $500-1000. I check NERD, kingsnake.com classified, and a bunch of other first page Google results haha.

$500-$1000? I can see NERDs prices being like that, but you might want to double check kingsnake. I just saw a male on there for $350, or do you need a female with size?

I'd get the pastave out of those choices. Try to avoid breeding hets to normals if you can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birt

Nice points : )

Also, The best prices I found on Bee's is around $500-1000. I check NERD, kingsnake.com classified, and a bunch of other first page Google results haha.

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Soon there will be plenty of male bee's on the market for $300 to $500 depending on quality.

I would go with the best example pastel yellowbelly you could find :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birt

Ok, But the first Pastave with a normal would have 25% chance of pastel, so that could branch off into a non wiping of the patterns with that. Then, work on Mojave's, Pastel's, and Pastave's together for Supers and BUL. Just my ideas.

Seems like the pastave would allow for the most options and only require me to pick up a spider down the road for my FAV Bee's. But, the het ghost can get me some Ghost Spiders and Ghost's so I just have to get a pastel for a bunch of combos.

I Guess I'm torn between those 2 options. It seems either way i will have to get a pastel or a spider down the road.

I appreciate your feedback : )

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it would be 50% could be pastel for breeding the Pastave to the Normal as well as 50% could be Mojave. Am I messing this up? :rolleye2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bkelley02

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it would be 50% could be pastel for breeding the Pastave to the Normal as well as 50% could be Mojave. Am I messing this up? :rolleye2:

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no, it would be 25% because the other 25% of the 50% of pastels and Mojaves would be Pastave

Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bkelley02

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it would be 50% could be pastel for breeding the Pastave to the Normal as well as 50% could be Mojave. Am I messing this up? :rolleye2:

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Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png

HAHA beat me by seconds!

OK, so I have now found several Bumble Bees in my price range.

SO ...

Pastave
or
Bumble Bee

I would go with the Pastave, Bees are everywhere... plus I think that a Mojave is more valuable than a spider.

But again it is up to what you want to work with. You really can't go wrong.

I'd pick up a bumble bee female now, and then later when she's just about big enough to breed start looking for a killer pastave male. That'd just about cover all the stuff you said you like.

Realize with the pastave that you need to raise it to adulthood, breed it, hope you get a mojave female, raise that to breeding weight, and then breed it to your male again to get yourself a BEL. That's a 4+ year adventure, and if you can tack on another year each time the RNG gods don't produce you a female mojave. I guarantee you end up buying a BEL or a fem mojave before then :)

I'd look at more direct results instead. Would you prefer spiders and pastels or mojaves and pastels? On a single morph basis, you're going to get more bang for your buck out of the pastaves right now. I've seen a few nice pastave male hatchlings at the 350-500 mark and I got my male bumble bee for 300. The extra 100 bucks you put out now is going to return you 100 dollars an egg on the other end. When you breed them out - you can make supers with the pastels and mojaves but not with the spider. That's another thing I'd consider.

My 2nd male will likely be a pastave or a lesser pastel.

OK. I was looking at it as you would have Pastel in 50% (potentially ) of the offspring. Not just 25% being straight Pastel. My bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birt

Hey Everyone,

I already have a normal female, and I am wanting to get a male morph to start breeding down the road.

I am wanting to spend about $400 tops.

I have found 3 snakes around my price range and have been playing with all kinds of options way down the road with the Genetic Wizard.

MY choices are

Pastave
or
Spider Het Ghost
or
Spider Het Albino

I was just wanting some advice on which would be best and make the most combos.

I personally love the spiders going to ghosts then all of the Bee morphs. But, that would require me to pick up a pastel.

I have found the Pastave will have the most options and eventually lead to a Blue Eyed Lucy, and would require me to get spider down the road for all the Bee's and I could have alot more to play with with the Co-Doms.

Also the Spider het Albino could make some cool stuff and I would still have to buy a pastel down the road to get some Bee's.

And thoughts or suggestions are much appreciated.:D

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I don't like to say that one morph is a better starter morph than another because to me a "starter" animal is one that is easier to care for than another. All morphs in BP's are just like the others as far as care goes. So if you know how genetics work, and know how to properly care for a BP then your "starter" could be whatever your wallet can take. Your first snake could be a $100 Pastel or a $2,000 Champagne, it'll be the same.

I'd stay away from hets since you only have a normal female, so w.e you produce won't be a guaranteed het. Which could make breeding projects a lot longer and more disappointing. I'd stick to co-doms.

As for the bee thing. You can buy a male Bumblebee under $400 and make more bees with just the normal girl. The Pastave sounds good too. But the option for a bee is out of the question there.

My only concern with any of the het choices are this - Are you going to keep and be responsible for every baby born? Selling Hets when you are new to the "Ball Game" is very very hard unless you just sell them as normals.

My vote would be to start with the visuals! And then your first eggs could all be different! And I second the opinion of getting another female and start raising her before you decide on a male. A pastel with some size or a mojo or even a yellowbelly or a spider are all in your price range and you will be a year or two close to making babies.

Again just my .02!!!!!

OK, I spoke with the guy that is selling the Pastave ... And, to sweeten the deal he is throwing in a 800g male Fire. The pastave is 248 grams, both males. I am getting both for $400.

So, thanks for all the info and advice. Once these 2 guys get to 800-1000g I will look to purchase a female that is breeding size or hope my normal is up to 2000g.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birt

OK, I spoke with the guy that is selling the Pastave ... And, to sweeten the deal he is throwing in a 800g male Fire. The pastave is 248 grams, both males. I am getting both for $400.

So, thanks for all the info and advice. Once these 2 guys get to 800-1000g I will look to purchase a female that is breeding size or hope my normal is up to 2000g.

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That's a steal!! Does he have more??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birt

OK, I spoke with the guy that is selling the Pastave ... And, to sweeten the deal he is throwing in a 800g male Fire. The pastave is 248 grams, both males. I am getting both for $400.

So, thanks for all the info and advice. Once these 2 guys get to 800-1000g I will look to purchase a female that is breeding size or hope my normal is up to 2000g.

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You buying this from a reputable breeder???
Post pics of them just so we can be sure thats what youre getting. Most pastaves ive seen are $450 and the cheapest male fire ive seen is $250.
That seems too good to be true...

http://market.kingsnake.com/image/1285422.jpg
http://market.kingsnake.com/image/1285423.jpg

He has not sent me pics of the fire yet. He said he has 5 of them left and is trying to make room for his 2012 snakes coming in.

Wow that is a steal.

I would also suggest staying away fro Het to Normal breeding, as it will be a big undertaking as there is a chance that none of the PH females will prove out.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Wow that is a steal.

I would also suggest staying away fro Het to Normal breeding, as it will be a big undertaking as there is a chance that none of the PH females will prove out.

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Ya, I got to reading about the complexity in het breeding. I think i will stick to dom and co-dom stuff for now. Or until I can convince my wife to let me build a new garage with a snake/bonus room above it. :weirdface

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birt

Ya, I got to reading about the complexity in het breeding. I think i will stick to dom and co-dom stuff for now. Or until I can convince my wife to let me build a new garage with a snake/bonus room above it. :weirdface

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Recessives are great, but it really is easier to have at least one visual in the mix. Or at a minimum two 100% hets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Recessives are great, but it really is easier to have at least one visual in the mix. Or at a minimum two 100% hets.

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Yup, Just gotta get my self started with some nice 2-3 genes. Then I will mingle with some hets. I really like axanthics, ghosts, stripes, and maybe some deserts and clowns. So many options.