First time

Hello!

First of all, after searching through these forums all afternoon and evening to compile information, I have to give praise to this place. I've never seen such depth/detail. So I feel like I'm in a great place.

I'm a first time/soon-to-be BP owner. I have an idea of the setup I want and money isn't an issue really. Here's what I wanna get:

Zilla 40 gallon critter cage
Exo Terra water dish
Zoo Med repti-therm UTH 8x12"
24qt aspen bedding
2 identical snug-fitting hides
Random tank decorations
Accu-rite thermometer/hygrometer
CHE
Thermostat

My questions are:

1. Should I buy a lamp stand for the CHE to keep it off the mesh lid?

2. What CHE should I buy?

3. What color/type bulb should I select?

4. What thermostat should I get to control my UTH/CHE?


I know 40 gallon tank is extreme for a juvenile/baby BP but I figure why go through the entire setup twice in its life? I plan on having the hides replaced as it grows so they stay size appropriate. Plus after I get decorations and water dish and other climbing things it won't seem so gigantic. I plan on "wallpapering" the back and sides to make it seem more confined as well.

The last thing I'm curious of:

What breeders are recommended for acquiring a normal BP as young as possible. I want it to have taken food, but I want as close to a baby as possible. And I have a couple local herp vets I've found... Do I need to take my BP in for an initial once over or are they only necessary if I suspect an illness?


Thanks so much everyone!

Aquariums are for fish, not reptiles. you will hate yourself if you get a 40 gallon, plus unless you really provide enough cover your Bp is going to be stressed out and probably not eat. for around the same price you can get a professionally made reptile cage like these:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/c22733cf.jpg

These hold heat and humidity in much better.

Here is a thread I wrote on them.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!

Here is where you can get them: http://www.animalplastics.com/ I suggest the T8

That setup that you just described will be a world of hurt, and really is not appropriate for a hatchling BP at all.

I suggest that you give this a read through if you have not already: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

Welcome to BP.net!! Will try an answer a couple questions for ya...

Personally I stay away from CHE's as they kill humidity in glass viv setups. If you do need a CHE or an Infrared Bulb to boost ambient air temperature you will have to partially cover the top of the mesh enclosure to maintain proper humidity levels. If your ambient air temp is already in the high 70's or low 80's scrap the CHE.

Thermostat all depend on how much you want to spend. I use Spyder Robotics HERPSTATS on all of my enclosures. They are slightly more expensive than their competitors, but offer a solid product.

If you are starting off with a 40 gallon tank just make sure to clutter it up a bit to mnake your snake more comfortable. I would recommend cover the back and sides with cardboard or something else that is not see through to make your snake feel even more comfortable. I would suggest a PVC enclosure or a tub setup instead of the aquarium setup though.

Breeders... All reputable breeders will ensure that any hatchlings being sold have accepted at least 3 meals. There are many individuals on this site that can offer you the exact animal you are looking for.

For the price of the 40 gallon I would seriously look at the animal plastics t8. They run about 150. Just switched from a tank to pvc bet thing I ever did. I wasted way more than the difference in price trying to get the tank to work.

Those T8 enclosures look great! I have a few more questions about them.

1. Will they require any CHE? If not that would be solid.

2. I read there are two methods of heating. If I do the flex watt, will it only be positioned in the middle of the enclosure? I was under the impression that BPs needed a gradient temperature range (one side warm, the other end gradually getting cooler). Or will the temps be where they should in the middle as well as the two ends? I want to make sure there are the proper differences.

3. If I get the flex watt, am I not able to use aspen bedding? Or will the temperatures just need raised via thermostat in order to penetrate the extra thickness of aspen bedding vs paper towels/newspaper? Or do I need to go with the radiant heat panels?

If I do go with heat panels, are they hard to install? Are they safe for the BP? Will I need to mount them in the middle like the UTH or put one at each end?

4. Are the lights a good thing to get? If so do I need two or one? I plan on not having the divider in.

5. I like the idea of taller enclosures, would the T12 be a better choice? If so, do the same things still apply to it as the T8?


Thanks guys!

Welcome to BP.net!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bkcouturier

Those T8 enclosures look great! I have a few more questions about them.

1. Will they require any CHE? If not that would be solid.

PVC enclosures don't require a CHE. If you have to heat the ambient air around the enclosure to raise the cage ambient, there are a couple of better ways to do it.

2. I read there are two methods of heating. If I do the flex watt, will it only be positioned in the middle of the enclosure? I was under the impression that BPs needed a gradient temperature range (one side warm, the other end gradually getting cooler). Or will the temps be where they should in the middle as well as the two ends? I want to make sure there are the proper differences.

A UTH or Flexwatt will go under one end of the enclosure to provided belly heat on the warm end. This can also be provided using back heat, but, In my experience, belly heat is easier to deal with and more consistant. Keep in mind that UTH or Flexwatt heat does not really affect the ambient temp in a large enclosure. To raise the ambient, you'll need to keep the cage in a warmer room, use a oil filled heater, or use a radient heat panel. (This is true of any enclosure, not just the type we're talking about here.

3. If I get the flex watt, am I not able to use aspen bedding? Or will the temperatures just need raised via thermostat in order to penetrate the extra thickness of aspen bedding vs paper towels/newspaper? Or do I need to go with the radiant heat panels?

You can use aspen with a UTH or Flexwatt.

If I do go with heat panels, are they hard to install? Are they safe for the BP? Will I need to mount them in the middle like the UTH or put one at each end?

They're not that hard to install and they are safe. Unlike the UTH that is used on one end to create a warm side, the UTH is usually mounted in the middle to provide overall ambient heat.

4. Are the lights a good thing to get? If so do I need two or one? I plan on not having the divider in.

When I used PVC cages, I had a light installed, but really didn't use it that much. Your mileage may vary.

5. I like the idea of taller enclosures, would the T12 be a better choice? If so, do the same things still apply to it as the T8?

Even though you may like the look of a taller enclosure, keep in mind that your BP is a ground dweller, and all that extra space is just more area you'll need to heat and maintain humidity for.


Thanks guys! Anytime!

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It looked like the only way the UTH came was to place it in the middle underneath. That's fine with me as long as the temps are cooler on the two ends. And I've watched quite a few videos that showed snakes that were "climbers" so I wanted to fit some taller things for the BP to climb.

It looks like I will need to get radiant heat panels regardless though :P

The UTH can be mounted on the right, left or center.... It needs to be in the center if you are using a cage divider so both sides of the cage get heat. The standard way AP sets up cages is to put the UTH on the right side of the cage. (I had to ask them to get mine with the center mount)

I have both the T8 and T12. I would stick with the T8 for BP's but there is nothing wrong with the T12. Be warned though, a T8 will be shipped to you in about 10 days - 2 weeks but a T12 will take 6-8 weeks.

regardless of cage size the same principals apply. Things like Radiant heat panel wattages may vary (taller cage = more air to heat)

also if you get the radiant heat panel ahead of time, and have it shipped to AP they will install it for you and make a nice power cable hole.

I like having the lights in them, but they are not 100% necessary.

So contact AP ahead of time to tell them which side I want the UTH to be on? And what radiant heat panel would you recommend for the T8?

For the T8 I would suggest the reptile basics 40 Watt mounted in the center of the cage. it will maintain the air temperature at 80 degrees and the flexwatt will provide the basking spot on the right side of the cage (default flexwatt placement by AP)

When you order the cage they will send you an email and you can tell them exactly how you want it, or you can call them to order it instead and tell them then.

Here is the reptile Basics RHP:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/40-watt-radiant-heat-panel

And to wrap it all up I would get a Herpstat 2 to control the Flexwatt and RHP

(Herpstat 2 is 2 separate thermostats in one box)

http://spyderrobotics.com/products/herpstat12.html

Alright I appreciate all the help! I will keep digging in to it all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bkcouturier

And I've watched quite a few videos that showed snakes that were "climbers" so I wanted to fit some taller things for the BP to climb.

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Young BPs will climb on things if they are in the cage, but adults usually do not climb at all. BPs grow into fairly heavy bodied snakes. They really aren't built for climbing. There is no need to give them the extra height.

That makes total sense actually :P

I will probably stick with the T8 then.

- T8 (no divider + flex watt located on the right)
- Herpstat 2
- ReptileBasics 40 watt RHP


Sound legit?

And does anyone have any pics of the white version? And also what the unit looks like on a stand?

If you go with that set up you will not be disappointed. It will make the whole set up easier and leave you with more time to enjoy your snake. I wish I would have found this site before I wasted so much money and aggravation trying to get a tank to work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bkcouturier

I will probably stick with the T8 then.

- T8 (no divider + flex watt located on the right)
- Herpstat 2
- ReptileBasics 40 watt RHP

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Excellent choice :sweeet:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bkcouturier

That makes total sense actually :P

I will probably stick with the T8 then.

- T8 (no divider + flex watt located on the right)
- Herpstat 2
- ReptileBasics 40 watt RHP


Sound legit?

And does anyone have any pics of the white version? And also what the unit looks like on a stand?

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White version: (Not T8's)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...e/P1010518.jpg

Yes, the cages are sitting on the 8"' stand sold by Ap, (it is an add on that you can chose on the T8 order page)

These also make really good stands for T8's

http://www.walmart.com/ip/4-Foot-Folding-Table/7679248

Put a skirt on it and you have some hidden storage.

I'm gonna add the lighting in the tank an probably sit the enclosure on top of a cabinet I already own. Is it safe to do that?

yes, when regulated by a thermostat the flexwatt on the bottom of the cage shouldn't ever get much over 100 degrees... far below the flash point of most materials. The only things I would avoid are thin plastics and carpet

So questions I have about the herpstat 2:

- it regulates two separate heating elements?

- It comes with 2 probes?

- does one probe go near the warm side hide and one near the cool side? OR does one go directly under the RHP and one about the flex watt UTH on the substrate surface? If the latter, do I need to put a thermometer/hygrometer in the cool side to make sure ambient temps don't dip too low?

- do the power cords of the flex watt UTH and RHP plug into the back of the Herpstat 2?

Yes, the herpstat 2 is basically 2 herpstat 1's in a single box. it has to probes and 2 outlets. you can set them at different temperatures.

one probe will go either attached to the RHp or directly under it, and the other probe will sit in a slot on the bottom of the cage where the flexwatt goes

you can see the outline of where the flexwatt goes ad the slot.

Yes, the power cords plug directly into the herpstat 2

you will need a good probed thermometer like this one: (from Walmart $12)

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...nt/photo-3.jpg

Here is how you should mount it:

cool end of the cage:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0452.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0453.jpg

hot side of the cage, directly over ht flexwatt:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0451.jpg

The RHP is to maintain the ambient temperatures in the cage, but it is always a good idea to have a thermometer so you know what your temperatures/humidity are.

So do I need two of those Acu-Rite probed thermometers? (one at cool end, one at hot end) or does a single Acu-Rite have two probes?

For mounting the Acu-rites did you simply screw in a mounting screw and drill a hole straight through the back of the unit?

Also, is a RHP even necessary? I reead your T8 setup thread again and I didn't see you install one. I don't want to spend and extra $65-$75 on the Reptile Basics RHP if I don't have to. Is the reason you didn't install one because you are using paper towel substrate vs aspen bedding/repti bark?

I just felt confused because in the setup guide it seemed like you took an either/or comparison.

Thanks!

I see your in the Dayton area I'm from around Canton. I need the rhp to keep temps up in the winter but you could try without it first. But you will probably need it come winter. I would get the herpstat 2 now though so if you need to add on later you can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bkcouturier

Also, is a RHP even necessary? I reead your T8 setup thread again and I didn't see you install one. I don't want to spend and extra $65-$75 on the Reptile Basics RHP if I don't have to. Is the reason you didn't install one because you are using paper towel substrate vs aspen bedding/repti bark?

I just felt confused because in the setup guide it seemed like you took an either/or comparison.

Thanks!

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I don't use one because I I've in Florida and the coldest my apartment ever gets is about 70 degrees. The ambient temperatures in my cages never gets below 75 degrees.

Using both give you the most control in your cage.

You can use aspen or reptibark, but the layer will need to be very thin.. less than 1/2 thick. I am currently using a RHP in my Dumeril's Boa's cage (dumeril's boas burrow in their substrate so it has to be a thick layer)

The main reason to get a RHP is top keep the ambient air temperature in the cage above 75 degrees. If your room temperature stays high enough for that year round (like mine does) then a RHP is not necessary.

Thanks guys. I will probably just get the RHP so I don't kick myself later.

You rock dude. I wish there were more posts like this BEFORE BUYING THE SNAKE!!

:gj::gj::gj: