So, is there an official verdict on RI prevention??

I've been on this forum for a while, and the information regarding respiratory infections is pretty inconsistent.

For those of you with large collections, what do you do to prevent them?

What do you do about it when an animal comes down with one?

Is misting bad or good?

Is soaking in warm water helpful or harmful?

Any input is appreciated!

Hi,

I think the info will always be inconsistant because there is no one cause of RI's.

It seems to be a member of the animals normal body bacteria/fungus/virus load becomes a problem when the animal has a suppressed immune system for some reason.

Since there are quite a few things that can cause immunosuppression ( is that even a word? ) like stress, low temps, injury, overbreeding, other health problems I think all you can do is try your best to keep the animals in optimal health and conditions and hope.

Then there are the infections that come in from other locations and get transferred by poor quarantine or simple bad luck. :(


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I think all you can do is try your best to keep the animals in optimal health and conditions and hope.

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x2...

Proper temps and humidity, clean environments(not only inside enclosures, but outside as well), keeping stress inducing activity to a minimum, quarantine, etc...

Super clean and perfect husbandry. 90% of all sickness in reptiles can be traced to husbandry causes. There are exceptions but if you count quarantine as husbandry it reduces again.

Most bacteria do not do well in dry environments most fungus the same can be said virus don't care at all. High humidity and poor ventilation stagnate air are know to increase the bacterial fungi that can cause RI enough ventilation is important (and the thorny part how much is too little??) I use the one change an hour rule (very very low by human standards) The test I use is dry substrate and no animal measure the RH and then remove the water bowl the RH in one hour should be close to the rooms RH. If it is still quite high and the enclosure has no source of humidity I'd add more ventilation. A poor shed here and there is better than a case of RI.

RI cases need to be cultured by a vet and treated with antibiotics that have been proven by the culture to kill that particular strain. With the number of bacteria (5 followed by 30 zeros) a culture is very important guessing and using a broad spectrum may not effective and sadly after the antibiotics have been given the results of any culture are tainted. Cultures need to be done before any drugs are given.

I would not mist for ri I would allow the enclosure to dry out some. not lots just some.

I have no idea about soaking but stress is never good and I would be concerned that adding stress to be worse than any benefit may or may not be gained by soaking. Some snakes tolerate water better than others it depends on the snake. I would likely avoid it myself. Especially if we speak of balls. Other snakes may need to soak I can only really speak about royals.

If you're using a nephrotoxic injectable to treat the RI, soaks can help. Most vets will recommend it at the time they set you up with your meds.

Other than that, pretty much all that has been said above, I'd agree with. Just do the best you can, and deal with it quickly if it happens. I've never had one pop up in my collection, but have unfortunately been sent snakes that were drooling straight out of the shipping bag. /headdesk

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Originally Posted by Ash

I've been on this forum for a while, and the information regarding respiratory infections is pretty inconsistent.

(1) For those of you with large collections, what do you do to prevent them?

(2) What do you do about it when an animal comes down with one?

(3) Is misting bad or good?

(4) Is soaking in warm water helpful or harmful?

Any input is appreciated!

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(1) Quarantine all new arrivals - properly. Make sure all your husbandry parameters are correct.

(2) Go to a real herp vet. Pick out a vet before you need one.

(3) Avoid misting. Misting coupled with improper airflow creates mold and bacteria proliferation. It is easier to create a humid micro rather than a macro environment. Use a humid hide rather than turning the whole enclosure into a petri dish.

(4) Harmful. Anything that causes stress can adversely affect the immune system. If dehydration is an issue, there are other ways of dealing with it.

The most common cause of RIs is the suppression of the immune system due to stress resulting in normally present bacteria adversely affecting the animal. Unnecessarily mucking with your snake, bathing with it, strutting about with it, keeping it improperly are all stressors.

Many vets will not bother to culture an RI, which results in an inappropriate antibiotic being prescribed which results in more stress and ineffective treatment. You need to demand that a vet properly culture the infection to determine first whether it is indeed bacterial and second what antibiotics it is susceptible to.

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bathing with it

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Dare I ask?

I haven't had an RI pop up in over 2 years now, and the incidence decreased dramatically since I stopped cooling for the breeding season. Ball pythons don't do well with cooling.

Strict quarantine will keep bad bugs out. I quarantine for a full year, now.

I have to agree with Doc to many variables to pin down a specific method as to avoid RI's all together what works for me might not work for you.

I'm one of those guys who's collection is purely run on ambient temps. My winter temps are always 78-81, my spring temps go to 79.5-83 and my summer temps 81-85.

This has given me ZERO issues..

So in my view temp's and stress level like other's have posted are the key. I never handle my animals for more then 20 minutes at a time and there set up's always stay the same.

While I know slugs are not part of the OP's question, I believe slugs to be an indicator of husbandry problems.

115 Viable egg's to this point 5 slugs.;)

Considering how extremely variable conditions can be for ball pythons in the wild, do any of you think that illness in captivity might be somewhat related to the sterility they live in during infancy?

I've heard for a while that children who are allowed to get dirty as babies tend to have stronger immune systems as adults and are less likely to develop allergies/asthma.

Do you think it might be possible that keeping their enclosures SUPER STERILE might be doing some harm?

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Originally Posted by Ash

Considering how extremely variable conditions can be for ball pythons in the wild, do any of you think that illness in captivity might be somewhat related to the sterility they live in during infancy?

I've heard for a while that children who are allowed to get dirty as babies tend to have stronger immune systems as adults and are less likely to develop allergies/asthma.

Do you think it might be possible that keeping their enclosures SUPER STERILE might be doing some harm?

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Yes, I do and the Barkers even address that in their book. Knock wood, in my 7 years of keeping ball pythons, I've never had a RI in my collection.

For the most part in weekly maintenance, I so a simple wipe clean, with a quarterly super clean/disinfection. I believe this allows my animals to build up natural resistances to my home environment.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ash

Considering how extremely variable conditions can be for ball pythons in the wild, do any of you think that illness in captivity might be somewhat related to the sterility they live in during infancy?

I've heard for a while that children who are allowed to get dirty as babies tend to have stronger immune systems as adults and are less likely to develop allergies/asthma.

Do you think it might be possible that keeping their enclosures SUPER STERILE might be doing some harm?

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It's an intresting argument and could be a great study to do.

I'm not sure people are willing to take the possible increase in death rates in either pets or children if it doesn't pan out though. :cool:

I have read a bit on that exact idea, I believe P deVosji (sp?) wrote on it. He uses bioactive substrate and suggests that super clean minimal needs to be kept that way or risk the animals health. They do not have tolerance to other bacteria. I personally believe there is a space in between I keep lots of stuff in the enclosures generally and coco coir substrate I also don't clean every month like clock work I clean when it feels or smells anything but fresh. (I always clean at least once a month full cleans not spot that is a daily job) When I do clean it is very clean I follow instructions on the disinfectant I use steam and detergent during my cleaning cycle. It is as close to sterile as I could make it with out using autoclaves. The longer period between cleaning and stuff is likely to re-introduce the common bacterium that live in my house. They like the snake grow in between cleanings but the cleaning knocks down the population density. Quarantine I clean every week regardless and a full deep clean this does not allow bacteria off the snake to multiply for long in the enclosure. I feel this reduces that population and allows entry of my resident bacterium. Slowly exchanging one for the other and homogenizing them. Hard to say it is quite likely I am a spaz and as I have not done swabs can only guess how effective and what is actually going on.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Yes, I do and the Barkers even address that in their book. Knock wood, in my 7 years of keeping ball pythons, I've never had a RI in my collection.

For the most part in weekly maintenance, I so a simple wipe clean, with a quarterly super clean/disinfection. I believe this allows my animals to build up natural resistances to my home environment.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

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I read that in the Barker's book as well.

I've never had an RI in my personal collection, to be honest....and knock on wood! I keep my animals simply, and while I keep them clean, I do not actually keep them what most would consider "sterile" most of the time. I spot clean weekly, change out bedding entirely every month to 3 months (depends on the snake and how dirty they make the cage or tub), and once a year completely clean out, wipe down, bleach, and then sun dry the tubs and hides.

I also run water bowls through the dishwasher every couple months at least, and they are also bleached and sun dried during the yearly cleaning frenzy.

I keep my snakes on orchid bark, and depending on the situation, either mix up the bedding with a generous amount of water once a week or misting the cage. Females with a nesting area, or females sitting on eggs, I mist. Just about everyone else I take out and add water directly to the bedding. I find in tubs this is a more efficient way to maintain humidity than trying to mist them just the right amount daily.

I almost never soak my animals. I view the need to soak as a sign I have not been monitoring cage conditions correctly, and try to establish conditions within the cage in such a way that soaking is never needed. I've never seen a soak make a condition worse, personally, but in the case of an RI I am not sure what exactly it would be helping. To hydrate the snake if the cage is being kept dry, that I could see being helpful. But to try and cure the RI? Not sure that a soak is really gonna do much.

Interesting question, I'll be following along :)

-Jen

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

(1) Quarantine all new arrivals - properly. Make sure all your husbandry parameters are correct.

(2) Go to a real herp vet. Pick out a vet before you need one.

(3) Avoid misting. Misting coupled with improper airflow creates mold and bacteria proliferation. It is easier to create a humid micro rather than a macro environment. Use a humid hide rather than turning the whole enclosure into a petri dish.

(4) Harmful. Anything that causes stress can adversely affect the immune system. If dehydration is an issue, there are other ways of dealing with it.

The most common cause of RIs is the suppression of the immune system due to stress resulting in normally present bacteria adversely affecting the animal. Unnecessarily mucking with your snake, bathing with it, strutting about with it, keeping it improperly are all stressors.

Many vets will not bother to culture an RI, which results in an inappropriate antibiotic being prescribed which results in more stress and ineffective treatment. You need to demand that a vet properly culture the infection to determine first whether it is indeed bacterial and second what antibiotics it is susceptible to.

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i agree with Skiploder, we use f10sc to clean all our cages, it is a vet grade disinfectant which is no toxic to humans and animals. it has also been
"proven" to treat the beginning stages of an RI when used in a fogger,but should not replace proper vet care at any time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ash

Considering how extremely variable conditions can be for ball pythons in the wild, do any of you think that illness in captivity might be somewhat related to the sterility they live in during infancy?

I've heard for a while that children who are allowed to get dirty as babies tend to have stronger immune systems as adults and are less likely to develop allergies/asthma.

Do you think it might be possible that keeping their enclosures SUPER STERILE might be doing some harm?

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I think that illness in captivity is primarily stressor based and secondarily, a function of captive husbandry.

For example, when a snake craps in the wild, it does not have to lie less than a foot from it in a heavily misted cage.