periodontal disease

Hello,
I around Christmas adopted a young beardie. He was not well looked after by his previous owner. I have done the best I am able to provide the best enclosure and husbandry conditions I can he has a large 34x30x30 enclosure, a gradient from 105ºF to 76º day and night 88ºF to 76ºF and correct lighting. (154 µW/cm² UVB @7200 lux to 7.5 µW/cm² UVB @ 1200 lux.) There are true gradients to both a slow range between.

He has not been eating well since we have had him, off and on, the last month or so has been worse more off than not. We have gone to the vet with him three times for various tests fecal (clean), blood work , and oral exam. My vet has determined with the blood work and exam that it is periodontal disease that is the cause of the problems. Tomorrow he is getting an xray to determine the extent of the infection. (We are feeding with a syringe currently he doesn't fight it, he just chews the tip. There has been no need to hold him still he just accepts it)

She is suggesting surgery to remove any (if there is any) bone that carries infection. I know that antibiotics are also used. I will need to make a very hard decision tomorrow potentially. I am hoping for some feed back about the use of surgery I understand I have a responsibility to provide the best care I can I am not avoiding that. I am concerned that invasive measures are not the best for him. I guess I would like some opinions about the how to speak to my vet. I had thought that if the infection is not exceptionally serious that to avoid surgery and treat with antibiotics for the period of time the vet suggests and then re xray to see if there is any left and then decide about surgical options.

I am am worried and would just like some ideas of how to approach this issue.

Do you have any pictures?
I've seen mouth rot in plenty of reptiles. I do t know if a vet would call that periodontal disease. Probably didn't spell that right. I know that PD most mammals can get through plaque buildup on their teeth in gums. I wonder If it's an infection in the jaw or mouth rot.
Anyways abos can be required in these situations. Most of the time if the infection is lanced out it heals up rather quickly.



Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

No sadly I have no images the vet shot a video (fibre op) and posted it to VIN (veterinary Information Network) and the consensus there was PD. It quite literally looks like black brown marks around the rear teeth. There appears to be no swelling or red marks it almost looks like it is pigment. I guess it could be moth rot (I hope it is way easier to deal with!!!) but it doesn't look to me like any pictures I have found.

It really does look like tartar build up. They say it is caused just like in humans by plaque build up that then causes excessive bacteria growth and infection below the gums. The thing that has me totally worried is the amount of infection in the bone. My vet (and my reading has somewhat supported this) feels that the infection in the bone must be removed and then aggressive antibiotics with oral rinsing. I just keep falling over removing chunks of his jaw. I am concerned with HIS quality of life not MY desire to have him. I will ask her again about her certainty of the diagnosis. I am hopeful the xray tomorrow will not show any bone involvement.

I guess I didn't have a real question... I am just frantic and not sure what to think. The poor little guy has had a hard life and I had hoped that his lot was going to turn around and then this. Some of us never catch a break.

Unless there is massive bone issues I really want to have the vet try aggressive antibiotics (cultured if one can be obtained) and see what happens in the next few months and re xray in September and see if it is abated or not. I just don't know if that is reasonable or I should lay my faith in the vet and go forward with surgical options???

kitedemon, thank you for posting about this problem with your Beardie. Though I do not keep them myself, I find them fascinating, and had no clue that they could suffer from this type of ailment.

I am sorry your animal is sick, and I hope he recovers fully. This information may be priceless to someone else in the future who is facing the same problem.

I would look at the surgery as the most aggressive option and if it's the best course go ahead with it! I also haven't ever seen this but learn something new everyday. Please if you can take pictures now and through the process somehow it would be valuable for another member


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

Thanks to both. I will get the X-rays from the vet and I'l ask if she will send me the mouth images. I will post what I can get and as much information as I can. It has been a hard I want to blame myself but my vet has assured me that it is something that does not happen over night and it is quite likely there before I got him. The move and stress associated with it may not be the root cause but certainly did not help.

This sounds like a condition that was long in the making. I don't think you had anything to do with it, other than discovering it and taking corrective measures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slim

This sounds like a condition that was long in the making. I don't think you had anything to do with it, other than discovering it and taking corrective measures.

---

x2, 5 months is way too short of time for periodontal disease to spread deep into the bones. There is no way anything you did could have caused this.

I agree with homegrownscales, it would best to go ahead and surgically remove the infection while aggressively treating with antibiotics. Hopefully, the vet may be able to do a relatively less invasive surface debridement rather than removing deep pieces of jawbone. Please keep us updated on the little guy.

Thank you all, I am just off to the vet now hopefully it won't be too serious. fingers crossed!

Well good news my vet does not believe there is very much bone involvement all. :D She is going to consult with a pair of vets whom specialize in lizards and have more experience than she does but the X-rays show very little if any deep infection. We are going to do a run of Enrofloxacin (I believe this is batryl) and Metronidazole both for quite a long period of time (12 weeks) At some point in the near future a second set of xrays will be done but she has hopes that the antibiotics will be enough. We will continue with critical care feeding (extra H2O from this) during this time hopefully this will be enough. Thanks all I'll keep info updated and hopefully it will be of use for others.


http://images50.fotki.com/v1571/phot...1/1ZEKE-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

http://images15.fotki.com/v792/photo...1/0ZEKE-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

Excellent news! If there's no bone involvement, antibiotics should do the trick. Thanks for the update.

Thanks for the support all. I have been quite concerned about him. He was abandoned in an apartment building before I got him. It looks like he was fairly well looked after for a while but suffered neglect before complete abandonment. I am fortunate to have a great vet whom freely admits that she doesn't know all there is to know and seeks advise when out of her element. I also really appreciate the opinions I have found here it helps keep everything in perspective and make sure nothing is over looked.

Definately sounds like a great vet! 2 thumbs up!
Glad to hear the good news. I'll have fingers crossed the heavy abos do the trick. I'm sure you know but hydration will be key in recovery.
Good luck!


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

We are using critical care by oxbow http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/pro...il?object=1609 and http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vet...ical_care_fine mixed 1:3 then water is mixed in and that is the mixture in the syringe. He is getting 6ml per day of the mixed critical care. (he is only 338gm) Even when (notice the optimism!) he starts to eat on his own I think the plan is still to give him some CC not as much 2 ml everyday especially as he doesn't seem to be bothered by the syringe feeding.

Just a quick update in the last few days he has perked up quite a lot. I think the critical care is responsible as he is still not eating on his own. I put fresh greens in with him everyday and try to wait until noon before feeding the critical care to give him a chance to eat on his own. He has gained 38 grams in the last two weeks. I'll keep posting updates.
Thanks all!

I am lucky she is a good vet. I don't expect he to know everything about everything and she freely admits she does not and listens very closely to my thoughts and opinions. To my mind this is the mark of a good vet (doctor... period!)