Switching from live to frozen/thawed. How?

OK, so now that things are looking up for both my bp's, I'm looking at the next step of snake-keeping nirvana at my house and that would be to switch them from eating live mice to frozen mice and then rats.

I have 3 live adult mice left in my feeder collection. I don't want to try to switch over my female just yet, but the male is ready, imo. How do I switch them from live to frozen?

If there is a doc somewhere please point me to it and I'll follow that.

But without having read anything ( I looked a little bit but didn't fine any), I'm thinking I have to try to feed these mice killed first. How do I kill them humanely? Because I'm thinking if they will eat something I just killed, then going from that to f/t would be easier.

And once they are on frozen (I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself), I want to switch them over to small rats. By then I think they'll be bigger and able to take fuzzy baby rats.

I'm looking ahead now because I looked at the prices for ordering frozen and getting only 50 or 100 just isn't cost effective. I won't buy any unless they are taking killed or frozen from ben's store, but I already have a shop cart going...

Actually, should I switch to rats FIRST? and then go frozen? which is easier?

if you kill the mouse and feed it to the snakes it then becomes pre- killed closer to f/t but not there yet. humanely killing it would consist of a c02 chamber ect.. ect.. the quickets way to uthanise without further expences it is to stick it in a pouch( bag, sock ect.) and hit it over a table or the floor, make sure it is a solid enough hit to brake its neck or it will suffer, also make sure its a solid pouch or you might fling the mouse across the room if the bag brakes mid strike.

now the key to feeding f/t is to try.
as long as the rat/mouse is thawed out completely, dry and warm enough to pass as pray the snake should eat it, maybe not the 1st offering or the second but it will.. i would make sure the f/t ( frozen thawed) is thawed out properly, dry and warm enough to pass as pray, then i would sent it with what i was feeding the snake with before.
to sent , simply rub the f/t on the soiled mouse bedding or on the animal itself so the snake perceives it to be what it was eating before.
after a few successful f/t scented feedings i would try a unscented f/t.

hope that helps, good luck!!

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LOL! I definitely was not using the right key words during my search. Thanks!!

This is odd... so I killed one of the adult mice exactly how a bp would. asphyxiation. Danced it around in front of the male and he showed interested for a few seconds but then wouldn't eat it. meanwhile the female (manasha) came out of her hide and started prowling around looking for whatever she was smelling (the dead mouse). I figured he wouldn't take it but maybe she would? I openned her tub a peak and dangled it in front of her. she struck once, but missed, tried again and got it. I didn't get to dance it around as if it were struggling because I lost my grip on the mouse with my tongs. she's gobbling it up now as I type. Or trying to anyway. She's never had an adult mouse before. She only ate 3 days ago so I hope this doesn't back fire on me.

Figured i'd share that tid bit. ;)

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

so I killed one of the adult mice exactly how a bp would. asphyxiation.

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How did you asphyxiate the mouse? Cervical Displacement is considered by most to be the humane way to dispatch a rodent.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

I didn't get to dance it around as if it were struggling because I lost my grip on the mouse with my tongs. she's gobbling it up now as I type.
Figured i'd share that tid bit. ;)

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Sounds like the zombie dance wasn't necessary, this isn't always the case. As for losing your grip, once a snake has a mouth full of rodent they're typically disinclined to release until the swallowing process begins. If she didn't have a very enthusiastic wrap you could have reached in and grabbed the tail to give it a few "death throes" to get her more into the game of life.

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Originally Posted by John1982

Sounds like the zombie dance wasn't necessary, this isn't always the case. As for losing your grip, once a snake has a mouth full of rodent they're typically disinclined to release until the swallowing process begins. If she didn't have a very enthusiastic wrap you could have reached in and grabbed the tail to give it a few "death throes" to get her more into the game of life.

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She ate it. It took her hours to finally start swallowing it. It seemed like she was cuddling with it for the longest time. I'd say about 2 hours to finally get to the point where she was swallowing its tail.

I gave the male a live mouse. He ate that thing right away. I think next time I'll let him get excited by letting him smell the mouse for a while before I dance it in front of him.

The female seemed to be starving and determined as hell to eat that adult mouse. She has a big old lump in the middle and hasn't gone back into her hide. Neither has he. They seem "spent" from having to swallow those mice. I dunno... do snakes get tired from eating? I think they know they can't fit back into that tiny hide. I shoulda gotten bigger ones.


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Originally Posted by Slim

How did you asphyxiate the mouse? Cervical Displacement is considered by most to be the humane way to dispatch a rodent.

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No idea what cervical displacement is... but what I did was I put the mouse into a zip lock bag. I waited thinking it would just suffocate, but it didn't. So I took my tongs and pressed the mouse down so it couldn't breath in. The tongs were wide enough to extend from rear legs to front legs. It was dead literally within 4 seconds.


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Just looked it up. Sounds basically like breaking its neck. Somehow that seems more painful than suffocating it. But I'm no expert on death.


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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

No idea what cervical displacement is... but what I did was I put the mouse into a zip lock bag. I waited thinking it would just suffocate, but it didn't. So I took my tongs and pressed the mouse down so it couldn't breath in. The tongs were wide enough to extend from rear legs to front legs. It was dead literally within 4 seconds.

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Please do a simple frickin' Google search for cervical displacement.

As for your method, I've literally been sitting in front of my screen for the last 5 mins trying to type a response. Words just fail me, but, don't do that anymore :mad:

Well you suffocating it is going to take much longer than you breaking it's neck. A ziplock bag suffocation is different as well from the snake constricting and killing it. Let the snake do it or make things instant. jmho


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After a snake eats they will usually roam around their cages. What they are doing is looking for more food. They go into hunt/eat mode. It usually takes an hour or two for them to get out of that mode but they will. And sometimes you can use this hunting mode to your advantage for switching to F/T, after they eat a small live or pre killed mouse, not using tongs to pre kill, you can try offering a F/T but just use smaller food items.

ok im not gunna bash you but please do not use that method again. Its alot quicker and humane if you just break their neck. When a snake contricts them they die within about a minute. Your plastic bag method made it suffer wayyyy more than it had to. Just do cervical dislocation next time :)

Ok. I will try to find out how to do that efficiently. For the record I did try to look up how to do it but all I kept coming up with were how to rid a house of rodents using rat traps and poison. Again, I guess I was not searching correctly (obviously) if this information is out there and I just didn't find it. The reason it didn't die in the bag is because I left too much air in there, so aside from it trying to get out, I wouldn't say that it was suffering much. I only waited about 2 minutes. And I couldn't believe how fast it died with I pressed down on it. I didn't press hard enough to crack bones or rupture organs. Only hard enough so that it could not breath. I have to admit that my heart skipped a beat while doing this. I've never intentionally killed an animal in my life, but I tried to think of it as food and went on with it.

Anyways, sorry if I disturbed anyone with my methods...

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Instructions

1. Grasp the mouse firmly by the tail with one hand. You should only do this with mice that are more than three or four weeks of age: If they're any younger, you might pull the tail off.
2. Pinch the base of the mouse's head between the thumb and forefinger of your other hand.
3. Pull each end of the mouse in opposite directions.
4. Listen for the crack and snap that indicates the mouse's neck has been broken. The mouse will probably go very still. Its legs may twitch reflexively, but this is just a nerve reflex. The mouse is already dead.

Read more: How to Kill Mice for Snake Food | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5037730_kill...#ixzz1uoZvEJBS

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Ugh... Honestly, I don't know if I can do this.... I think I will just buy frozen and hope for the best.

How is cervical dislocation any worse than forcing tongs on it so it can't breathe :s


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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

How is cervical dislocation any worse than forcing tongs on it so it can't breathe

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I knew someone would ask. And here's my answer. Keeping in mind that I'm talking about my personal feelings on the matter, I'm not stating anything as a "fact" or anything else.

Using tongs to push down on a mouse so that it could not take a breath is like mimicking how it would have died if I had dropped him in the bin with my bp. He would have been bitten and the snake would have wrapped itself around it, constricting it, until it could not breath. Then it would suffocate to death. The mouse I killed suffocated. Same thing. I didn't have to touch the mouse, I didn't have to feel it's dying body in my hands.

Breaking its neck, on the other hand, requires that I hold it. In or out of a bag; with or without gloves on, I'm still touching it and I'm still able to feel it struggling against my grip. Then to snap its neck and "pull the head and rear in opposite directions" until I hear a snap, is a totally different story for me. That's a bit more intimate of a kill and I don't think I could do it without becoming very anxious about it. So you see for me they are very different.

I'm not saying you should agree and I'm not saying any of the above is true for everyone or that everyone sees it the same way. This is just how I feel about it.

A bit easier method is to just bonk it. A mouse would take a very swift bonk to a hard surface. I used to use a pillowcaseback in the day. Or you could contiue feeding live. No reason to really have to switch to ft in my opinion. Its easier for me to drop live mouse or rats into an enclosure and the snake to do its job. No work for me at all....