A little sad tonight

Well today is my birthday! YAY! I am in high school and all i really wanted was a lesser male. Well today my dreams came true and my mom put the snake in a tiffany box and pretended it wasn't a snake until i opened it. She is great.

Well i was talking to a certain breeder about this lesser and he said he got it from ben siegal a couple months ago. I asked him how much it weighed and he said "in the 450 - ish range right now. He was offering 200$. I thought that was a great deal. But i was not allowed to get it, all because my parents got it for me! well i open the tiffany bag and i see the lesser. Except that he is very small, and was extremely flighty. I immediately new something was up, so i thanked everyone and took him upstairs to weigh him. he weighed in a t 211 grams! i knew this wasn't OK. even more, he was extremely bitey (maybe just from trip). I put him in his cage and left him there for an hour or so. when i came back to hold him. He just lashes out whenever i get my hands near him. I offered him some food, but he just bit it, and went into a s shape. :snake: I thought that i should have waited, but the breeder said feed him immediately. i am very upset about his size because i wanted to breed him this upcoming season :(

Be aware about false advertising ex) get a picture of the snake on the scale. Do you all think i can get a full refund, shipping included?

Thanks

Why would you want a refund? It's a hatchling so what? They tend to be a bit nippy and who can blame him after being put in a jewelry box. Let him settle in don't hold him for a while get him feeding and you should have a great snake.

Are you sure it's the same snake you were looking at before? I havent ever heard of Ben misrepresenting an animal for sale... If you have any doubts or questions, send him an email or a message on FB and get the real story before jumping to retun him. Also, give the snake a chance to settle in and try offering food in 5-7 days...

If he is that stressed, there may also be issues with the environment. Can you give us pics of your setup? What are the temps on hot and cool sides? Do you have hides?

Sounds like your parents got a different snake than you were originally looking at?

Either way, he should be able to breed the upcoming season anyways. I've had males breed at 345g, so he doesn't have too much growing to do. Either way, you can't guarantee that a snake will breed, anyways.

Just give it time to settle in, it sounds like it is extremely stressed. It will stop striking at you in time.

I agree, I bet it's a totally different snake. Ben Siegal is a good guy for the most part. Why would you want to refund a perfectly good lesser? Just beef him up, be happy you got anything, nevermind the exact thing you wanted-minus 200 grams. ;)

Give him time to settle and start eating. He'll be just fine. If you are happy with how he looks, why sweat a return and all the hassle that involves? Just feed him up and grow him out yourself.

BTW, Happy Birthday!

I will add my 2 cents If this snake is a great looking example of the morph you want then KEEP IT. Transit new enviroment a birthday party ETC will add a lot of stress to a hatchling snake. Remember baby snakes are food for larger animals. How would you feel if you were put in a box and a giant opened it and grabbed you? I would leave your new addition alone for at least a week then offer food and hold off handeling until you get at least 2 meals into him. AS for breeding he can easily reach breeding weight for next season. My sons normal was 217g end of December and just hit 515g last week. He is fed 10-15% body weight every 5-7 days so he should be breadable this fall easily. I would keep him and just let him settle down and he shounds like a great gift and should be a great addition to your collection :D

OK thanks guys. i will let him settle in. We shall see what happens. I didnt know you could breed males that early. Thanks for all the input!

I can understand you being upset and unhappy. To be told you are getting one thing, and then get something else entirely is not a good experience.

My understanding is you did not get this snake from Ben, but from someone who claimed that they got it from Ben.

I would at least email and ask why the snake is so much smaller than what you were told, ask if it has problems eating.

For now, your baby is very stressed out, scared and unhappy. If you desire to keep it, then give it a week under optimal conditions to de-stress and unwind, and then try feeding again.

If you do decide to ask for a refund, remember to be as polite as possible. Just explain that you are concerned because the snake is much smaller than you thought it was going to be, and you are worried it might have issues eating. You may or may not get a refund, so be prepared to be turned down.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

My understanding is you did not get this snake from Ben, but from someone who claimed that they got it from Ben.

I would at least email and ask why the snake is so much smaller than what you were told, ask if it has problems eating.

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Yes i got it from someone who got it from ben siegal. I will let him settle in. I called the guy and he said he didnt actually weigh him he just looked that way and that "what do i want to do about it?" so i have a few options but this guy really is a great looking lesser.

Another question, he smells very bad, and he has now stunk up his enclosure, just wondering why he might be? doesnt exactly smell like pee, but it makes my stomach hurt when i smell it:puke: lol

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Originally Posted by masonhall

even more, he was extremely bitey (maybe just from trip). I put him in his cage and left him there for an hour or so. when i came back to hold him. He just lashes out whenever i get my hands near him. I offered him some food, but he just bit it, and went into a s shape. :snake: I thought that i should have waited, but the breeder said feed him immediately. i am very upset about his size because i wanted to breed him this upcoming season :(

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If you can't handle a hatchling snapping at you, you should reconsider breeding. What are you going to do when mama makes it clear she doesn't want you coming near her eggs?

Stop trying to handle him and give him the proper settling-in period. If you are concerned about his weight, post a pic and we can tell you if he looks underweight. If he doesn't, then it either isn't the same snake, or the "breeder" is a terrible guesser, or lied. Regardless, this doesn't have anything to do with Ben Siegal, since the "breeder" already gave you false information once. Where he originated is moot, though, if you like him and he isn't in poor body condition.

As for the smell, it is all guesswork on our end unless you can find the source of it (wet substrate, poo, a white lump, a regurgitated hairball, etc.). I would go ahead and re-clean his enclosure, if it smells that bad, so he's able to settle in without a mess.

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

If you can't handle a hatchling snapping at you, you should reconsider breeding. What are you going to do when mama makes it clear she doesn't want you coming near her eggs?

Stop trying to handle him and give him the proper settling-in period. If you are concerned about his weight, post a pic and we can tell you if he looks underweight. If he doesn't, then it either isn't the same snake, or the "breeder" is a terrible guesser, or lied. Regardless, this doesn't have anything to do with Ben Siegal, since the "breeder" already gave you false information once. Where he originated is moot, though, if you like him and he isn't in poor body condition.

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I expect to put a t shirt over her. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone here I'm just not very experienced with this stuff. As for Ben Siegal, i think he is awesome but he has nothing to do with this. It is my and the breeders fault. Thanks for all the help everyone.


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It's not that you offended us. I don't think anyone here is offended. But you did send up a few red flags that are concerning to those of us who have a lot more experience. We point these things out to you, not to belittle you or criticize, but because we are concerned for you!

Breeding is NOT for everyone. There is a huge amount of responsibility involved. The fact that you mentioned you wanted to breed this snake in the coming year, yet did not know what to do when the snake snapped, when he didn't eat, or that his cage smells, suggests that you lack a lot of experience. My apologies if I'm drawing the wrong conclusions here.

You flat out state:

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.....I'm just not very experienced with this stuff.

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You need to be patient and get more experience with just this sort of "stuff" before you consider breeding. I apologize for being blunt, but these are just the sorts of things you do need to know.

Be mature and responsible about this situation: you got a very nice lesser as a b'day present. Be happy! Grow him out yourself - it'll be more satisfying anyway. $200 is a great price for a nice lesser even if it is a hatchling - they usually go for 250-300.

You didn't offend us. We are not trying to offend you. We only want to help you!

Is it right to be dominant over a youngish ball python? when it strikes at you, should you put it back in its enclosure or should one keep holding it and make it curl into a ball, touch its head etc. i think j. koblyka did a video on it.

I wouldn't handle him until you get him eating. Congrats on your first Bp. This is great place to come with all of your questions. There is a lot of knowledgable people here to help. Hope to see pictures of your boy soon.

He will grow out of it. Mostly all hatchlings are like that, he will be tame before you know it just leave him alone for now. Once he puts on some weight he will settle down especially if you handle him every so often.

Stop and take a deep breath. You need to completely leave him alone until he eats 3 consecutive times. No handling at all. This could be three weeks or 2 months. But if you leave him alone now it will be less time for him to start eating.

As for breeding i seriously think you need to stop and take a deep breath there too. In my opinion people need to do serious amounts of research before breeding. Like what will you do with the babies? How will you house them? What will you feed them? Incubation, egg cutting, common breeding problems. Etc etc etc. its important that you don't go into breeding without looking into things. And it sounds like you need to get basic things down first like why the baby is nippy. What that smell is, and how long acclimation periods should go for. Get the common sense ball keeping down first and then slowly approach breeding with a level, educated head on your shoulders.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Originally Posted by masonhall

Is it right to be dominant over a youngish ball python? when it strikes at you, should you put it back in its enclosure or should one keep holding it and make it curl into a ball, touch its head etc. i think j. koblyka did a video on it.

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Yes but dont start trying to handle him like that until hes eating for you regularly. After mine have their first 2 meals in a row then i start handling them for fun. Before that though keep handling to a minimum and only do it for cage cleaning etc. when you have to. Some may never ever grow out of being a nervous snake. Most do though, so i wouldnt trade him back especially if you like him.
Describe the enclosure setup you have him in or post a pic of it...

Also dont think about breeding yet until youve mastered the care of the snakes you have got now lol. Having 8 hatchlings snapping at you and not eating doesnt sound like something you would be able to handle right now. Im not being mean, just being honest.

Yeah I'm just going to slow down with the breeding until I think I'm ready. Thanks for all the help guys! His enclosure is 15q. Is that too small for a 211gram snake? It has sphagnum moss, a Uth on one side (same as hide) and water bowl. Humidity so it only slightly condenses on the sides if at all. I have a thermometer but I don't trust it but temps are good but the hot spot is a little less than 90

Is your uth being controlled by a thermostat? Uth's can get very hot and burn your snake if you don't have a thermostat!

Also, you need to have two hides. Most will tell you they need to be identical, but that doesn't really matter, I've found. One on the hot side, and another on the cool side.


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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

Is your uth being controlled by a thermostat? Uth's can get very hot and burn your snake if you don't have a thermostat!

Also, you need to have two hides. Most will tell you they need to be identical, but that doesn't really matter, I've found. One on the hot side, and another on the cool side.


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so where does the water bowl go? the hide itself almost takes up half the cage. but remember his sterilite is pretty small i will post a pic from my phone soon. should i move this guy up to a 32 quart?

also, since he is nippy, what is to stop him from just nipping the rat and then not eating it?

How big is the hide you have now? If he could fit in a smaller one, then downsize and also get a second smaller hide for the other side of the cage. If he can't fit in a smaller hide, then perhaps it is time to up the size of the tub so that two adequate hides and a waterbowl can all fit.

the uth is also not very strong at all, so its maximum temp is the right temp.

Post pictures if possible to help us understand the setup, it sounds like your hide is to big for the little guy. They like tight spaces, it makes them feel more secure. Just give the little guy some a week or two to settle in, if you try to feed him to early he will most likely just do defensive strikes at the food, but let him settle in and he will eat when he is ready. After 5 days or so of no handling offer him some food and if he doesn't eat it in a few minutes take it out. Typically if they don't eat it in the first 10 mins they won't in my experience, and it will only stress them out more.

15qt should be a good size for him, I recently put my 559g male back in a 15qt because he wasn't eating well in the 32qt, however my 647g male is very happy in the 32qt. Every snake is a little different.

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Originally Posted by masonhall

the uth is also not very strong at all, so its maximum temp is the right temp.

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You need a thermostat!!!! This is not optional - no matter how small your UTH is. UTHs can overheat. Even if it's not too hot at this precise moment, a temperature spike can send the heat soaring and can seriously burn or even kill your snake. Taking the risk is not worth it.

This t-stat right here is a basic one, but quite appropriate. It's under $30 and has FREE shipping!! There's no excuse not to use a t-stat.

As Mike, I think, said, I'm not trying to be mean, just being honest.

There's a lot wrong with what your telling us, firstly that your trying to handle and feed on the first day. I imagine it's stressed.. let him settle in and handle/feed in a week or so..

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Originally Posted by masonhall

the uth is also not very strong at all, so its maximum temp is the right temp.

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Hey Brother, do you not read other threads on this Forum? This topic gets covered on a very regular basis,

You have no way of knowing what the true max temp of your UTH is, so how can you know it's the right temp?

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Originally Posted by Slim

Hey Brother, do you not read other threads on this Forum? This topic gets covered on a very regular basis,

You have no way of knowing what the true max temp of your UTH is, so how can you know it's the right temp?

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I just bought that a couple weeks ago for another snake. Now should I get another for this guy or should I connect it to a power strip, keep the probe in the older snakes tub, and base the temps off those temps
Compared to the new one?http://img.tapatalk.com/a6937b14-3a4b-1f6c.jpg

I fixed his cage up after this photo was taken. It looks cleaner and nicer that was just temporary. Now is the size ok?


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It's kind of hard to tell because of the angle, but that hide does look way too big. I'd take that out and replace it with too smaller ones for sure.