Madison, my low grade pastel

This is DeathMetalMax and I's low grade pastel Madison, we took her to a snake expert who said she's probably a low grade pastel, and confirmed she's female. Yay! Here she is in ok lighting.
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...5-05235354.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...5-05235335.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...5-05235314.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...5-05235259.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...5-05235228.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...5-05235210.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...5-05235146.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...5-05235100.jpg
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...5-05235042.jpg

That's not a Pastel...

How do you know because she;s brighter in person but there is no good light in the apartment :rolleyes:

would like to know how to spot a pastel....

she has green eyes clear belly and lots of yellow how is that not pastel i dont get it lol

i'm confused then.....:confused::weirdface

thats a normal

ok thanks but how do you know is what i'm wondering. :rolleyes: seriously.

check 4 posts above you :gj:

I'm going to guess that coldbloodaddict is saying it's not a pastel because the eyes don't look green (they look brown and black) and the body doesn't look yellow (it looks brown). It may be that the lighting and camera are doing a truly awful job of capturing the snake's colors, but all we have to go on here are the photos we can see, so I'm not at all surprised that people think it's not a pastel.

Thank you I can understand that 100% I just needed an explanation. thank you
Her eyes are much more green in good light, they are olive green colored, and her yellows are very intense and her black colors are also very very bright. I did not think black could be vibrant until I saw her and how colorful the black actually is.
i'm not an expert on pastels and Max isn't either but somebody who owns a pastel and has owned several in the past saw her in person and did say she is a very, very low grade pastel
she was much brighter as a baby and it has since faded quite a bit. do most pastels do that? it didn't necessarily brown out, just dulled...sad.
but yes the camera can capture nice close ups but as for color it is not terrific, it is a 7.0? megapixel or 6.0 megapixel cell phone camera on a Samsung Galaxy i think it is
hard to see. tried taking photos of the yellow mark on my other snake's belly and you can see it so well in person but on the camera it does not come out at all. it's a shame. wish I could send her to all of you so could see her yellow color lol
but what do you look for to tell if a snake is a pastel? i have read the hunter's guide, is that all you look for or is there more? thanks for help

This is Bana, my brothers very yellow normal. We assumed for a long time that Bana was a pastel because of the traits that you described, but once we caught a glimpse of a real pastel, it was obvious we were wrong. And once I really got into pastels, i now know better. Bana is more yellow than my older nerd line pastel, but the differences in every other pastel trait is obvious. We have also had Bana looked at by other breeders and bp experts but no one can/will nail down a morph. Most recently Brian Gundy himself said he's a very yellow normal. Everyone agrees, there is something going on with him, but he is, at most, a "high yellow normal".
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...gejpeg_2_2.jpg

This is a great tool.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ot-...-Pastels

That's a normal... No doubt about it. Idk who the "snake expert" is but you should probably not ask them for anymore advice. The pattern doesn't say pastel, the eyes aren't a pastel's green eyes, and thays just a normal brown.... When a pastel is a low grade pastel you can still tell. A browned out pastel still looks COMPLETLY different than a regular "normal" brown

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

she has green eyes clear belly and lots of yellow how is that not pastel i dont get it lol

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Your snake expert isn't a very good expert on ball python morphs. The belly is not as clear as a pastel belly. There's nothing about her, poor lighting or not, that suggests pastel.

http://img.tapatalk.com/aefe766d-85f1-dc54.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/aefe766d-860d-013f.jpg
This is a pastels eye using a crappy iPhone camera, and you can still somewhat see the green. While I don't see pastel in any of your pics I can't say for sure it's not a low quality pastel. The clear belly and blushing are pastel signs, though these can be on normals too. There are a few things you can do to get better quality pics. Take a few pics outside in the sun. And put something in the photo we all can adjust the color of our screens to, ie a coke can. Once the color of the coke can is matched the color of the snake should be much closer to the actual snake. Hope this helps some.

I have a Samsung Galaxy, I promise, it isn't your phone taking poor pictures - I would say - based on what I have seen in pictures of actual pastels, that yours is not a pastel. I'm no expert by any means, but I don't see one :/

I'm gonna guess it's a male normal...however, I'm no expert...:)

not a pastel no affence but a nice normale indeed pastels have different pattern and color variations thats definitly not a pastel also i would get a different oppinion on sex if its female its very slim to be one

It is definitely a normal not a pastel. Pastels have more blushing as I understand.

I have to jump on the "that's not a pastel" wagon too....once you look at more morphs you'll slowly get an "eye" for them, though you'll still have the tricky ones that are more subtle. And some normals do have green-looking/lighter eyes that could be misleading.

Here are some quick cell phone shots of my '08 "browned out" "low quality " NERD line male pastel.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...s/IMAG0510.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...s/IMAG0521.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...s/IMAG0520.jpg

It's pretty clear that's a normal. I don't know what the upside of the "expert" telling you it was a pastel for. Did he or she sell it to you as a pastel and bump the price on you a little?

Thats a normal. Sorry if it was sold to you as a pastel. I would also like to know who the expert is. If its the same person that sold it to you then i think they owe you some money back!

Here's my low grade male pastel. Looks normal sometimes but here's a face shot.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...0120426_20.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...0907-00275.jpg

I don't want to jump on any sides but with brown eyes your going to have a very hard time convincing people that she is a pastel. She is very light, and very beautiful. But based on the photo's provided no one would call her a pastel. Sorry..

Cheers,
Chris.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlisleishere

This is a great tool.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ot-...-Pastels

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this is a great link! thanks for sharing.

blushing is neither here nor there when it comes to spotting a pastel. Pastels have such a high number of variances that the only definitive way to tell a pastel from a normal is the eyes. Normals are capable of having blushing as well. I'll post a picture of my normal, and my pastel females, they are sisters from the same clutch. All the other tricks are to help to qualify it's grades, from low quality to high quality, and to help identify different lines of pastels. If your having a hard time distinguishing it from a normal than it's not something you would want as a part of your breeding plans, and if you have no plans of breeding than it doesn't really matter what her morph is. She is very beautiful anyways.

NORMAL
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../8/whitney.jpg

PASTEL
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/9/8/june.jpg

Cheers,
Chris.

^Personally, i see a HUGE difference in those 2! Quite obvious!

That sucks Shellie, definitely not a pastel :(

woops.. accident post.

Funny because in person her eyes are definitely green not brown. But oh well.
I don't think there's any need to diss on the person I took her to, didn't a ton of you just say it's hard to tell in some cases? He owns other pastels and I got to see them. I thought she looked a good bit like them. I do plan on breeding in the future.
And I'm positive she is female, he popped her and saw absolutely no penes but he did get scent glands out of her, so the lack of penes but with the scent glands showing would be female, wouldn't it? I've also popped her myself numerous times and no penes, whereas it was extremely obvious even with my adult male CleoMantra after about the 7th time I popped him that he was male--he held his penes in but I still got them out eventually.
Not Madison, and she's much younger than him. So not even as strong. And still no penes.

She was sold to me as a normal from a pet store, unsexed, but the pet store are idiots and mislabel animals all the time, and house different species of snakes together. In one tank they have 3 ball pythons and a red tail boa and a carpet python. In ONE tank. Been like that for over a year. They aren't the best, so I figured they could probably not tell a pastel from a normal if it opened its mouth and yelled it at them...lol...The people who work there don't like the snakes and when we said we wanted to look at the pythons the lady did not want to touch them. It was my mom who reached in and grabbed a handful of ball pythons lol.

Anyway I think she is female. Maybe not pastel, but based on the stuff above I'm positive its female, and so no I did not buy her as a pastel. I've had her for almost 2 years now. I always saw her eyes as green not brown even after seeing pastels in person but maybe I'm not a good judge at color. Oh well. Doesn't matter. I will still breed her as a dinker if nothing else and try to get more of that pretty yellow. :) Her tail stripe is a blindingly bright yellow. It's awesome. Maybe it's genetic. :)

Thanks. and no need to diss on the guy I took her to lol...he's not a noob. but you guys did say they are hard to spot. so maybe he made an error. idk. but being mean does not help. :colbert:
Thanks guys. Appreciate the input.

Also one more thing is that she is only 900 grams at the moment, and she has been off feed for a few months. So yes, she looks skinny. She isn't eating. From what I understand that doesn't affect gender....:confused:
She isn't even full grown yet. She's maybe a year and a half old. So....yeah....

Madison is very pretty. Good luck with her, hope she gets back on feed soon!!

thank you she and all my bp's have not been eating. it's worrying me but they aren't losing too much weight so I don't think it's time to force feed or panic just yet. I think I just need to wait and see if they'll eat in the next month or two.
but yeah that would be why she looks a little thin. :( Her weight hasn't gone down much but she isn't as plump and full as she was. sad face

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

thank you she and all my bp's have not been eating. it's worrying me but they aren't losing too much weight so I don't think it's time to force feed or panic just yet. I think I just need to wait and see if they'll eat in the next month or two.
but yeah that would be why she looks a little thin. :( Her weight hasn't gone down much but she isn't as plump and full as she was. sad face

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My male OG hasn't eaten since October. My pastels just started eating this month. They haven't been eating since October either. Don't worry about it. Just keep offering lol.

I offer every two weeks or so now so I don't stress them out by offering. lol. Yep, they're doing the ball python thing. :P

my normal has the same color

Normal eyes can look greenish but side by side with a pastel's green eyes there is no comparison. We are not trying to "diss" this "expert" but anybody who has had multiple pastel's and has been breeding should be able to tell with no hesitation that that is clearly not a pastel and it sucks they got your hopes up by telling you it is. But oh well it is what it is. It will be a nice female though once he gets some weight on.

Yes we will breed her as a dinker I think. Thanks for nice comments. And I understand what you meant now about the expert thank you tons. but she's nice regardless i can't wait to breed her pastel or not. :)

It's eyes are not green. The top half of its eyes are a lighter color more similar to hazel, but not pastel green.
It's definitely not a pastel and I can tell that just by the pattern and color.

Here are a pastels eyes..
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../MsPics037.jpg

Here is one that would be considered a low-grade browned out pastel.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...sPics008-2.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/DSCF1125.jpg

And a blushed out blonde (right) with a darker pastel (left) which has very little blushing..

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/DSCF1134.jpg

The clean belly of a pastel is wider than just the center scales. The patterning starts closer to the sides of the snake and is much more clean/clear than a normal..

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../MsPics029.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2.../MsPics048.jpg




<---Signature--->
Snakes, Jeeps, Dragons, Nature, & Knives.. Makes my world go-round!

Still will breed her as a dinker. Maybe the yellow will be genetic. ^_^ :D

Oh definitely. Even most normals pass on their traits to young. Lighter snakes make more lighter snakes.


<---Signature--->
Snakes, Jeeps, Dragons, Nature, & Knives.. Makes my world go-round!

Want to know my secret for spotting even very low quality pastels ? It has nothing to do with eyes, because for the longest time I thought all pastels had green eyes, but it has recently been brought to my attention not every single one does.

Anywho. It's the brown out line. Every single pastel I have seen, high yellow, low yellow, orange, blushed or not blushed, every single one has a brown out line. And once you learn to pick it out, there is no mistaking it. Baby to adult, they've all got it.

If you study good body pictures of pastels, you can learn to pick it out really quick. On page three of this thread, post number 22, you can see what I mean. That pastel has a very distinct line midway down it's side where the color changes from brown to yellow. That is the brown out line. On the same page in post 27, you can clearly see the brown out line for the pastel in the bottom pic. On page four, post 40, the line is a little harder to pick out in the second photo, but if you look closely, it's there.

So yes, I agree your lovely little girl is a normal. But perhaps my secret can help you learn to pick out pastel's on your own.

Gale

I also don't use eyes as a determining factor, and it drives me nuts when people say "if the eyes are green, it's a pastel", because that's simply not true. I also have had normals in my collection with green eyes that most definitely were not pastels.

Green eyes can also occur in normals.

I dont see a pastel neither. If you have the time, try to look for pictures of pastels here at Bp.net or even through other search engines. It will give you an idea in what to look for and to determine if a Bp is indeed a pastel or not. Its easy to spot a pastel if you know what to look for. I usually look for the brownout line. Pastels, high or low grade have at least an amount of browning above the yellow coloration.

Yeah to be honest, after looking at her these last couple days I'm going to have to agree that she is just a normal, a bright normal, but a normal. By looking at low grade pastels on the internet and comparing her to them, you can see she doesn't have enough yellow or orange to be pastel. Breeding her to a decent pastel male would be cool though, could probably get some decently bright pastels and normals. It's always good to get a second opinion, thanks for your thoughts everyone. Btw my signature is out dated will change it now.

That's a normal

100% Normal...Not a Pastel. To me, even the lowest quality Pastel is very easy to pick out. You'll get an eye for it eventually.

People like to try to make black and white rules for IDing morphs. In my opinion, most morphs aren't that simple. It usually comes down to a general "look" that each morph has. And to me, it's very hard to explain something that is so fluid and variable.

Either way...Nice snake!

Just got this today wanted to know if it's truly a low-grade pastel best way for someone to tell on my opinion is when they're babies.

I'm sorry how do you post pics on here I'm new?

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2908/...fefa3618_o.jpg

This is my pastel.

He is not a particularly high quality snake.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2565/...a5b922d7_b.jpg

This is one that's a bit more browned out, but a good shot of the eyes.

You can see a 'brown out' line on most pastels, and even browned out they are noticeably lighter than a normal.