Starting a breeding project. I would love opinions on morphs to acquire.

Hello ball python forum. Wasn't sure if I should post this in the breeding section or here. I guess since I am wanting suggestions on what morphs to buy this is the most appropriate area. I am embarking on a brand new breeding project. I'm very excited about it and this forum has been extremely helpful. I have been taking lots of notes and absorbing as much knowledge as my little brain can handle. I have kept snakes, reptiles and tarantulas all my life but have never tried my hand at breeding. Well, I'm ready to give it a go. Within the next few months I will be dedicating a room in my home to keep and breed ball pythons. The room will be insulated and climate controlled. I have a list of all the equipment and supplies that I will need and also a written plan of action. As soon as I have my room all set and everything in place I will begin to acquire the snakes. I have already purchased my first male, (I couldn't wait, this guy looked really nice to me so I didn't want to snooze on him) a Mojave from BHB. Here is a video I put on youtube of him. http://youtu.be/YrGOc5hj760

Anyways, I just thought it would be cool and fun to get a bunch of different suggestions from people on what they think I should have as my breeding colony. All together I have $5000 to get this thing started and off the ground. I am setting aside $1000 to put towards the snake room and food for the first year and anything unexpected that I might have overlooked or comes up. So that leaves me with around $4000 to spend on snakes. Give or take some. Since i'm new to the breeding aspect I thought it would be a good idea to start small, so my plan is to have two males and 4 females. Raise them up for a few years and then see what I can do. I already have the Mojave male, so I'll be getting one more male and 4 females.

So what do you think? What would be a good start? I would like to make a small profit and perhaps potentially turn this into a small quality business if it all goes well, but my main reason for doing this is passion and love of ball pythons. So I'm just as interested in choosing based on striking colors and patterns, basically snakes that are wildly cool to look at. So I think it would be great to get feedback based on both the business perspective and and an admiration standpoint. Which morphs do you think will offer me a chance at a decent potential return on my initial investment, and which ones when bred together turn out something that you think is just plain striking and cool? Thanks for participating if you do. Any of your thoughts, opinions, advice etc. will be a big help. Later.

Paul

Pick what you want to breed, but I would go with some single and double gene females to start and go from there. Females take longer to
Mature so gives you more time to decide what makes you want. But it's all up to you decided what morphs that you like and want to produce and go from there. What are some morphs you would like to produce in the future and see what morphs you need to get there.
Tom

Fire, enchi, lesser, are great starter, cheap, base morphs

For double combos, maybe the
Firefly (pastel x fire)
Pewter (black pastel or cinnamon x pastel
Lesser bee (spider x lesser) these are awesome!
Cinnapin (pinstripe x cinnamon) beautiful!

For recessive maybe:
Albino
Ivory (yellow belly x yellow belly)
A couple more that ate not
Coming to mind....
I personally like working with the doms and codoms

Hope this helps!





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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?pgnlkb

Go for what you like and what you wanna produce. I would get like 3 double gene females right now and let them mature up. When they get to breeding size breed your mojo to them. What i would choose to buy with $4K would probably be completely different from what you would pick...

If profit is what you seek, young padawan, I suggest you take the $5k and buy some newly hatched morphs at wholesale prices and then turn them around and sell at retail.

No muss, no fuss, no waiting and the "little" profit you seek.

Like everyone else stated, pick what looks good to you.

When do you want to start breeding?
If sooner, then I would start buying adult/young adult females. It will be more expensive this route though with each female going for 1k each or more depending on the morph. Females gain value as they reach breeding size.

If you want to save thousands of dollars, then start with single or double gene female hatchlings. They will take time to grow though. It takes the average female hatchling to reach sexual maturity by 2 years of age or more.

I wouldn't even both with males for another year or so. So that gives you time to think of a breeding plan. Also, desired males may come down in price by then. I would go w/ at least double gene males.

The upfront cost will be more for multigened animals compared to single gene, but it will be more efficient in the long run. Less housing, less mouths to feed, less time cleaning, etc etc compared to if you wanted 2 single gene snakes.

Pastels, Lessers, Cinnamons/Black Pastels, pinstripes, and spiders are the more basic starter genes.

Do you want a recessive project? Albinos are classic. Hypo/Ghosts are one of the cheaper recessives, but put out one of the more beautiful combos. What about Clowns?
If you plan on a recessive gene project, then I suggest investing in a morph het rather than just a normal het. For example, pinstripe het albino rather than a normal het albino.

Does this 1000 include adults and baby racks, thermostats, heat tape..etc?

You should probably be looking more towards putting 2000 towards the room and food. Building breeder racks with good thermostats, heat, tubs, etc is quite expensive. Not to mention, you'd need a sub-adult rack, hatchling rack and incubator. All of which would also need tubs, heat, thermostats, etc. Don't forget you'd also need substrate, water bowls, etc... the list goes on and on.

As far as which snakes goes, I'd suggest buying the morphs you personally like. It would make things more fun for you. Look around for awhile and purchase which ones really catch your eye within your price range. Btw, if you're thinking about making profit, breeding snakes is a tough way to do it. I know many breeders that are in the red year after year, but they do it for the love of doing it.

Hey people thanks for the comments so far. Just to clarify, I intend to start with babies and raise them up. The $1000 includes everything to get this "started". I intend to have a total of six baby snakes, and everything that I need to raise them for about 2-3 years. I understand that I will need to adapt and change things, add things etc. as they grow. The $1000 was intended as a first year cost. Yes that includes the initial rack, tubs, heat, thermostats, etc. Keep the comments coming. This is a great place for me to be right now as I begin my journey. Thanks.

Paul

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Originally Posted by versicolor

Which morphs do you think will offer me a chance at a decent potential return on my initial investment, and which ones when bred together turn out something that you think is just plain striking and cool? Thanks for participating if you do. Any of your thoughts, opinions, advice etc. will be a big help. Later.

Paul

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If you're concerned about ROI, purchasing babies is the wrong way to go about it. You're talking about AT LEAST a 2 year ROI. You would also need to factor in every dollar you've spent during those 2 years into your ROI. The better option would be buying proven breeders and starting from there.

$1000 will definitely MORE than cover the cost of housing for 6 total snakes. I have a rack that I paid $300 for that holds 5 levels of 28 qt tubs. I bought babies at an expo, so 28 qt tubs were too big, so I went to Home Depot and bought a bunch of 6 qt tubs with lids to house the babies. I also bought a bunch of 16 qt tubs for when they reach the 500/600 gram mark, and the rack came with 28 qt tubs. You could either purchase one of build one yourself. I would love to build one myself but I'm not confident that I would do a good job :P.. I'll leave it to the experienced haha.As far as what snakes you want to get, it really is up to you. There's different ways you can go about starting a breeding project.

What do you want to produce? Do you just want to start up a business producing base morphs sell? Do you want to produce some multi-gene morphs? Is there a particular morph you really want to produce a lot of? Not all adult females are 1k+. Adult proven breeder pastels can be $500 - $700. Adult proven breeder NORMALS go for around $100 - $250.

You can buy a backup male in case your mojo doesn't want to go. You could then start looking for a newish morph male to breed to your females. That would probably cost you some money, but I'm sure you'll have enough. Prices for that newish morph that you just bought will decrease, but you'll still probably be able to sell the offspring for a good price, make your money back, or maybe make a profit. It's all up to the odds gods and mother nature lol. Alternately, you can buy another morph male and sell the offspring from that. I would either get an enchi, calico, or a lesser/butter! Females are worth more than males, so I would be hoping for female morphs in those clutches lol. Great examples of each are going to cost more!

Another important factor to consider is the fact that you might not sell all your babies.. Be ready to care for all the babies that hatch out of the egg.. Ball pythons typically have ~6 egg clutches. 6 x 5 females is 30 babies that you would have to take care of.. Answer the questions mentioned above, and maybe we can give you some better feedback!


PS. It took me a long time to write this up because I'm at work.. You probably answered most of my questions already, but I'm posting this anyways :gj::P.

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Originally Posted by dart

If you're concerned about ROI, purchasing babies is the wrong way to go about it. You're talking about AT LEAST a 2 year ROI. You would also need to factor in every dollar you've spent during those 2 years into your ROI. The better option would be buying proven breeders and starting from there.

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exactly. I am breeding my own rats and mice. food and housing cost for those, the materials and equipment to house your snakes. Sudden vet bills in case of emergency, lots to cover. Much like a reno, always double what you had originally planned. Best of luck (as I'm four snakes in atm, shooting for 12 breeders) with 23 rats and 6 mice.

Purchase double gene co-dom males. They are more bang for your buck in the long run. Since you've already purchased a Mojo male, you should look at picking up a Pastel Lesser or an Enchi Lesser for your second male. Both the Lesser gene and the Enchi gene do great things to clean and lighten the other morph genes when combined.

I would say for sure get a lesser and a mystic female. I think the BEL's and Mystic potions are both pretty awesome looking and sell for quite a good chunk of change. Also most people suggest breeding your females at 1500g, but if you get them to the 1100-1200g range and they wont be up 300 grams in time for you to breed them go for it. A female won't lock up if she isn't ready and you can get a return on your money quicker and sometimes when you breed them earlier the babies may still sell for more. Best of luck, I'm just getting into this hobby as well and I can't wait.

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Originally Posted by ZBP

A female won't lock up if she isn't ready

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Where did you hear this?

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Originally Posted by Slim

Where did you hear this?

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A successful breeder.

some breeders offer a pairing or breeding groups. royalconstrictordesigns.com has a few that im interested in. like a pinstripe albino male and 3 albino females for $2900. that would leave some room in your budget to grab a couple girl friends for that mojave you got. orange ghost are hot right now so maybe a trio of those. theres just sooooo much to choose from. its just what ever you like best. like ive got a pastave male paired with a lesser female, pewter female, and a bumble bee girl. that will give me some really good babies in my oppinion but others may not see it that way. I like it because if im not screwing up my punnet square i have very low chance at normals.

Why do people always say, "pick morphs that look good too you"... If your looking at investing money into balls for breeding, wouldnt you go for a variety of morphs too broden your market which you sell too.

what looks good too you, may not be whats hot and everyone else likes.

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Originally Posted by PythonOutlaw

If your looking at investing money into balls for breeding, wouldnt you go for a variety of morphs too broden your market which you sell too.

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You breed what you like, so if you can't sell them you aren't stuck with a bunch of animals you don't enjoy.

BTW, except for a few, BP breeding is a money losing endeavor, so you might as well make snakes you like.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Where did you hear this?

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Ive heard it too before too on here, dont have any proof tho.

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Originally Posted by Slim

BTW, except for a few, BP breeding is a money losing endeavor, so you might as well make snakes you like.

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What are those few doing to make money? lol. I'm too lazy to do it, and I'm almost off work, so I'm going to ask you politely to post a poll to see what breeders on the forum actually profit from breeding BPs, who loses money, and who is just breaking even?

I spent some money on a breeding group, and I'm way negative haha, but I want to produce sweet new morphs so this is just another one of my hobbies that cost money :D! Much like how I wanted to collect "homies", model cars, legos, and zippo lighters. I didn't expect anything out of them except for my own enjoyment! At least if I breed ball pythons, I can share my passion with others who love the animals too :gj:!

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Originally Posted by h00blah

What are those few doing to make money? lol. I'm too lazy to do it, and I'm almost off work, so I'm going to ask you politely to post a poll to see what breeders on the forum actually profit from breeding BPs, who loses money, and who is just breaking even?

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I think the BP breeders who are making money are more than hobby breeders. Now, before I get jumped on here, I'm sure there are some hobby breeders out there who are turning a profit, but all things being equal, I still think you have to be set up big, to make big.

I've never posted a poll before...sounds like fun. Look for it in the BP Breeding Section :gj:

x3 or 4 on breed what you want. You can breed what you want and still shoot for that new morph or sexy pattern that drives everyone nuts. But, in the end you're the one cleaning up after them, raising them, and potentially keeping holdbacks for future projects. If you get into snake breeding for pure profits, you're already in the hole. It takes a TON of snakes and a TON of buyers to truly yield a good amout of money to start generating profit. If you look at a fixed cost analysis, a small group of snakes can yield you money, but you have to consider it as a variable cost analysis where you have to account for expansion, larger food items, food shortage, more housing, heating going out, vet bills.

That being said, you can't go wrong investing in multi-gene animals for some sweet snakes. The more genes, the less chance of producing normal offspring, not that there is anything wrong with them. . . I'd suggest Enchi and Lesser at the least. Add in some Spider somewhere and throw some sexy super pastel in to wrap it up. But do what you want! I have never cut a profit, but have been able to break even after a few years breeding reptiles! Goodluck.

I am new as well and maybe I can share some input.
First thing i have Learned that needs to set striaght is Patients!
This is going to take some time and unless you buy multi gene morphs, you will not create something new.

What I want to make for myself is a Super Pastel Orange Ghost Spider.
Has it been done? I do not know. But i have seen a Super Pastel Orange Ghost and all i can say is i do not think i have ever seen so much bright orange!

Right now I have a male HoneyBee (Orange Ghost Spider) I would like to obtain a Super Pastel Orange Ghost. I just recently found out what Co Dom or a spider and pastel is. (Thanks BP.net:)) Oh and Orange Ghost being res. It is going to take me years to complete this, I would like to try and make from that some Pastel Orange Ghost Spider females and hopefully buy a male Super Pastel Orange Ghost male and try to make me some Super Pastel Orange Ghost Spiders! They will produce an orange that is... i cannot even put it into words!

This website tho is amazing! alot of people have helped me in the 10 days ive been a memeber. So any questions, this is the place to be!!!!

But this is my opinion on what i would like to breed. you will just have to go to as many breeding sites, expos, and forums to hear the latest projects and ideas.
Take your time in choosing the snakes. You might wish you picked something else later on or find a better looking quality of the same morph cheaper.

I am not that experienced at all. I just have a passion and a dream.
Best of luck to you in the up coming years! Hope to talk with you some more!

~Brian :-)

In addition to the above post, don't cheap out on snakes.
Like, don't hit the best deal for an average looking morph just because you want to save money. Look for the best example of the morph.
I'd rather pay a little more and get 'the perfect example' of the morph. It'll help with producing beautiful babies w/ those traits as well.

starting off your best bet is to get co-dom morphs. Mojave is a great place to start. this is what I would do:

Males:
Mojo - $400
bumble bee - $600


females:
pinstripe - $300
Lesser - $500
black pastel - $500
phantom - $1500

= $3800


I'm not 100% on the price of phantoms right now on the market.. last year I was offered a phantom for $900, so im basing my price assumption loosely on that. leaves you with $1200 so you can try and get one of those males or females het for something (trends right now, probably OG)

meh, not putting a whole lot of research into it but that is what I would do.. make some killer combos there.

Black Pastels are less than $500. More in the $250-300ish range.
If you want the black pastel gene for $500, get a 2 gene Black Pewter(Black PastelxPastel) or Cinnamon Pewter(PastelxCinny). They're about $500-600 right now.