Need Help!

My ball python I got from the pet store within the past two weeks today was out from his hiding spot and kind of twisted up in a pretzel almost and his head laying to the side a bit. I picked him up to check to see if he was ok and I'm not sure if he was trying to bite me or not. He had opened his mouth a bit and his nose kind of went against my hand but not a successful bite if he was trying. I set him back down and he went back to laying in a similar position. I'm not sure what's wrong or what to do.

Now's he's laying with his head upside down.

pics will greatly help, his he any type of morph?(spider or woma?) is he in quarantine from any of your other reptiles?
answer these questions and it will help more
Type of cage?Size?
how is it being heated?
Temps?
Humidity?
last fed?
Any signs of illness, mucous from nose?,breathing weird?

Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1nstinct

pics will greatly help, his he any type of morph?(spider or woma?) is he in quarantine from any of your other reptiles?
answer these questions and it will help more
Type of cage?Size?
how is it being heated?
Temps?
Humidity?
last fed?
Any signs of illness, mucous from nose?,breathing weird?

Tom

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Humidity 40, temp around 95 but trying to cool it down a bit. 20 long aquarium with hood lighting, bulb 60 watt I think for day light, been turning the UVB light off to cool it down during the day (tank upstairs). Had UVB on by itself for a bit before this started, turned off UVB and turned on the regular light and he turned his head back the right way, but his nose is in the bedding (aspen). Tried posting picture but can't figure it out since it asks for a URL. I don't see any kind of mucous. Because of his position i'm having difficulty telling the breathing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moonwise11

Humidity 40, temp around 95 but trying to cool it down a bit. 20 long aquarium with hood lighting, bulb 60 watt I think for day light, been turning the UVB light off to cool it down during the day (tank upstairs). Had UVB on by itself for a bit before this started, turned off UVB and turned on the regular light and he turned his head back the right way, but his nose is in the bedding (aspen). Tried posting picture but can't figure it out since it asks for a URL. I don't see any kind of mucous. Because of his position i'm having difficulty telling the breathing.

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Does he have any hides? If you are only using light bulbs for heat, how are you warming the tank at night?

At night I have one of the infrared bulbs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moonwise11

At night I have one of the infrared bulbs

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Does he have any hides? Do you have a pic of your setup?

Hides? like hiding places? I have a pic but not sure how to post it since when I go to post a picture it asks for a URL.

What kind of heat. if your using bulb what wattage?

26 for UVB, 50 for one light and 60 for the other. (day and infrared)

you do not need a uvb so if someone sold you that they were taking your money, i would ditch the lights and get a UTH and a thermostat and cover some of the top of the cage to get that humidity up to 50-60%. post the pick buy putting it on photo bucket and then right clicking on the picture and copy url link and they past on here where it asks for the link. how are you measuring the humidity and temp? thermometers with probes or those terribly round ones?
Tom

Outside of the one thing I have for him to climb on, this is pretty much what I have, maybe not exact but similar or same.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...4&lmdn=Reptile (large one)

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=3569157 (for infrared)

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=3577443 (something similar to this for UVB)

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...&lmdn=Pet+Type (just not as high a wattage)

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...&lmdn=Pet+Type (hood like this for top)

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...&lmdn=Pet+Type (this kind of light for night time)

i wouldnt even waste your time with a day bulb you can just leave the night bulb in all the time. How are you monitoring temps. i have a ball in a 20 long and a 60 watt heat bulb would never heat the hot side to aproriate temps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1nstinct

you do not need a uvb so if someone sold you that they were taking your money, i would ditch the lights and get a UTH and a thermostat and cover some of the top of the cage to get that humidity up to 50-60%. post the pick buy putting it on photo bucket and then right clicking on the picture and copy url link and they past on here where it asks for the link. how are you measuring the humidity and temp? thermometers with probes or those terribly round ones?
Tom

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Terribly round ones i'm afraid.

Pics!!!!

ok first things first,
Get rid of the half long as a hide! bps do terrible in them. second go out and get thermometers(act-rite at walmart for$12) with probes, the terrible circle are very inaccurate, how big is your bp? that you even have a large hide for him? i would ditch the lights esp the compact florescent, they can be very dangerous to the eyes of reptiles. go get a UTH and a thermostat and cover 90% of the tank with a piece of plexi glass to keep temps and humidity.
Tom
try posting pics

Hi,

You need to try and get a good idea of the temps where the snake is. Most people make the mistake of putting those round ones half way up the wall or similar.

Here's a post I made on how to post pics.

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Hi,

Well the first thing is to get them hosted somewhere online.

You can put them in your gallery here - this tutorial is a bit old but the basic procedure is the same I think.

And here is another one in video form that might also help.

You can also use a site like http://photobucket.com/

They should also have tutorials to help you.

If you still have trouble just ask any member of staff and we will do our best to get you sorted. :gj:

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Where did you get him again? It really doesn't sound right but pics might help a lot.


dr del

getting the rest of the pics from my phone to my computer to upload them. here's the first one i took.
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...5825489540.jpg

Recent one (10-15 minutes ago) http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...5828785386.jpg

Tank
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...5828795879.jpg

I'll try to remember the stuff to replace. I did put the temp/humidity things too high probably. closer to the top. Got him for $50 at a pet store. Had the big log thing because someone gave it to me.

Still young. 2 ft long maybe?

Looks like a young snake correct. imo the whole setup might be to big for him

I have something smaller to put him in. A critter tote. Put him in there instead?

he does need a hide though. an old shoe box will work for now. flip it cut a hole in it for him to climb into. maybe even show him it. my guess hell go right in. When did he eat last

a 2-3 weeks ago? i tried feeding him a couple times and he wouldn't eat. was tempted to try today but not sure if he would.

live or f/t

f/t as far as i know. don't know of too many places where i live that feed live.

ok how are you offering it

First off, welcome to the forums!! You've come to the right place to learn. We will do our best to help you. Please do not take offense at anything we might say - keep in mind that our primary concern is for the snake's well being.

Second, Read the CARESHEET. It's the single most important link in learning proper care of your new snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moonwise11

Humidity 40, temp around 95 but trying to cool it down a bit.

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:O:O Your BP is dehydrated plain and simple. There may be other things going on, but this is the first thing that is obvious from the photos. Humidity is way too low and temp is way too high. Start misting every day. Humidity is hard to keep up in a tank, but we'll start there. It should be at about 70%.

Get rid of the lights - BPs don't need UVB light or any type of light at all. They'll raise the temps too high and suck out humidity even more. Your UTH (I assume you're using a UTH?? If not, are the lights the only heat source???) MUST be on a thermostat!! ANY and EVERY heat souce MUST be regulated with a t-stat to control the temps. Temps that are too high can cause irreversable neurological damage - and 2 weeks is long enough for that to have happened.

You want your hotspot only to be no more than 90-92 and your ambient temp should be no more than 80.

Get rid of those analog round dials for measuring temp and humidity. They don't work no matter where you put them in the tank. Pick up an Accurite indoor/outdoor thermometer/hygrometer combo from Walmart (only about $12). It is digital and accurate.

Your 1/2 log hide is WAY too big. BPs like snug and secure hiding places. Try the hide boxes from Reptile Basics. 2 of these are what you want - one for the cool side and one for the hot side.

I don't mean to point out everything that is wrong with your setup. But Petsmart employees are notorious for selling someone things they don't need and for giving poor or downright wrong information. That seems to have happened to you. We'll do our best to help you help your snake! :gj:

f/t. set it in it's small baggy in a bowl of warm water for 15 minutes and use the feeding tongs. i've used them to hold the tail and move it around, hold it still, just set it down for a while. at most he would smell it and turn his head lol

Your snake is almost garuanteed not to eat until you get your husbandry sorted out (see my post above). First things first. If you move him to a different enclosure, that won't fix the husbandry and he'll only stress which will make him even less likely to eat. Fix the temps and humidity and hides!

Does that mean his problem right now is probably stress related then?

No. Read my first post again. It is husbandry related. That will cause him to stress, sure, but the problem has started with husbandry.

sorry, missed the above post

That's ok. Easy to do when there's a conversation going on. Hopefully more people with experience with chime in. Your baby needs help.

What are you using to regulate your temps? Do you have a thermostat??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

First off, welcome to the forums!! You've come to the right place to learn. We will do our best to help you. Please do not take offense at anything we might say - keep in mind that our primary concern is for the snake's well being.

Second, Read the CARESHEET. It's the single most important link in learning proper care of your new snake.



:O:O Your BP is dehydrated plain and simple. There may be other things going on, but this is the first thing that is obvious from the photos. Humidity is way too low and temp is way too high. Start misting every day. Humidity is hard to keep up in a tank, but we'll start there. It should be at about 70%.

Get rid of the lights - BPs don't need UVB light or any type of light at all. They'll raise the temps too high and suck out humidity even more. Your UTH (I assume you're using a UTH?? If not, are the lights the only heat source???) MUST be on a thermostat!! ANY and EVERY heat souce MUST be regulated with a t-stat to control the temps. Temps that are too high can cause irreversable neurological damage - and 2 weeks is long enough for that to have happened.

You want your hotspot only to be no more than 90-92 and your ambient temp should be no more than 80.

Get rid of those analog round dials for measuring temp and humidity. They don't work no matter where you put them in the tank. Pick up an Accurite indoor/outdoor thermometer/hygrometer combo from Walmart (only about $12). It is digital and accurate.

Your 1/2 log hide is WAY too big. BPs like snug and secure hiding places. Try the hide boxes from Reptile Basics. 2 of these are what you want - one for the cool side and one for the hot side.

I don't mean to point out everything that is wrong with your setup. But Petsmart employees are notorious for selling someone things they don't need and for giving poor or downright wrong information. That seems to have happened to you. We'll do our best to help you help your snake! :gj:

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I'm trying to do what I can for now to get him right. Can't afford to do much at the moment. At least I got a good place to start. I will save this information and that will help me make some changes for the better. Hopefully it's not too late to help him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

That's ok. Easy to do when there's a conversation going on. Hopefully more people with experience with chime in. Your baby needs help.

What are you using to regulate your temps? Do you have a thermostat??

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No thermostat. Been having to do it by eye on the thermometer.

Get. A. Thermostat. Seriously.

Again, I do not intend to come across as rude or angry. But if you can't afford the basic equipment (and, yes, a t-stat is BASIC EQUIPMENT), you shouldn't have a snake. You can get a hydrofarm t-stat off amazon for about $30. Pay a couple dollars more for next day shipping.

The money you spent on unnecessary lights would have paid twice over for a t-stat. :(

Remember, my only intent is to help you. Sometimes being blunt happens. I don't mince words when it comes to an animal's care. But I do not intend to be mean - I want to help you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

Get. A. Thermostat. Seriously.

Again, I do not intend to come across as rude or angry. But if you can't afford the basic equipment (and, yes, a t-stat is BASIC EQUIPMENT), you shouldn't have a snake. You can get a hydrofarm t-stat off amazon for about $30. Pay a couple dollars more for next day shipping.

The money you spent on unnecessary lights would have paid twice over for a t-stat. :(

Remember, my only intent is to help you. Sometimes being blunt happens. I don't mince words when it comes to an animal's care. But I do not intend to be mean - I want to help you.

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Can you suggest one? I'm going to try my best to get what I can as soon as possible. But right now, what can I do? i sprayed the tank down a bit inside with a spray bottle to get the humidity up and put him near the water I have in there.

cover part of the tank to keep what ever humidity is in the tank, to STAY in the tank. i would go pick up some cypress mulch, holds humidity very well. I agree with evenstar a t-stat is just as basic as the tank itself. you need one! You could try a gatorade bath, place the snake in a container and add about .25 inch of gatorade or pedilite, to help get back some of the electrolytes the snake has lost. just make sure the snakes head doesn't go into the gatorade bc it could drown since it seems so weak as it is. order a t-stat off line right now! and have it shipped for tomorrow!. and get ride of the lights, and get a UTH
Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moonwise11

Can you suggest one? I'm going to try my best to get what I can as soon as possible. But right now, what can I do? i sprayed the tank down a bit inside with a spray bottle to get the humidity up and put him near the water I have in there.

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http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...5833124&sr=8-1
That's the one she was referring to. It works wonderfully for a basic setup. Get a small box, cardboard if need be, and cut a hole in it for a hide. The hide should be just barely big enough for him to fit in.

Has he righted himself at all and is he still holding his mouth open? Does he feel warm to you to the touch? Were you able to get a thermometer yet to get a more accurate temp reading?

As I said in a previous post, get a hydrofarm off amazon for about $30. Pay a little more for the next day shipping. This one right here. Has next day shipping too!!

Turn off your lights and UTH (you still never said if you have a UTH. Do you??). Move the tank itself somewhere warm where the ambient temp will be about 80. Your snake will be better off with no hotspot for 24-30 hours than having one at 95. eek...

If you don't have a warm place in the house that will keep the ambient temp up, try raising the light higher off the tank so it isn't so close. Try to bring the temps down to 80. Mist the enclosure and I agree with 1ntinct - try a gatorade or pediatlite bath. Just don't let his head go under. I would also gently rinse him off or let him soak in clear water for a minute before putting him back in the tank. The gatorade or water should not be too warm or too cool - it should be only room temperature.

He's a little cool to the touch. Got some water on him and sprayed the tank down. My room is in the upstairs of the house so it's warm to begin with. I have a heating pad, but honestly not sure what a UTH is. Plugged in the heating pad and turned off the lights.

UTH=Under Tank Heater aka a heating pad;)
i know this is a long stretch but do you have a temp gun? has he uprighted yet or is his head still buried like in the pictures? did you cover part of the tank to keep heat and humidity in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moonwise11

Can you suggest one? I'm going to try my best to get what I can as soon as possible. But right now, what can I do? i sprayed the tank down a bit inside with a spray bottle to get the humidity up and put him near the water I have in there.

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What have you changed so far?

Take a look at this Tank Set Up sheet:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...p-w-pics-*DUW*

As everyone else said, get a thermometer/humidity reader combo from Walmart. It's called 'Acurite indoor outdoor thermometer'. It's about $12. You place the probe on the hot side of the tank and the thermometer unit on the cool side.

Second, you can buy plastic bowls from the dollar store, cut a little opening, and use them as hides. The small sized ones are perfect for hatchlings. Place one hide on the hot side of the tank and another hide on the cool side. A tight fitting hide will give your snake security. Balls feel the most secure when it can touch all sides of a hide.

Don't try feeding your little guy until he is completely settled down. Everytime you try to feed him, you're stressing him out. After you fix his set up, leave him be for at least a week without bothering or touching him. This gives him time to adjust to his new settings. After that week, try feeding again.

A pedialyte(found in he baby section in any grocery store) bath will help hydrate him.


Fixing your husbandry is the first steps to a healthy snake.
Hopefully your little guy doesn't have a neurological or other physical problem.



Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1nstinct

UTH=Under Tank Heater aka a heating pad;)
i know this is a long stretch but do you have a temp gun? has he uprighted yet or is his head still buried like in the pictures? did you cover part of the tank to keep heat and humidity in?

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The hood on top covers the whole tank. I don't have a temp gun. Hasn't moved much if at all since I got water on him and moved him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moonwise11

He's a little cool to the touch. Got some water on him and sprayed the tank down. My room is in the upstairs of the house so it's warm to begin with. I have a heating pad, but honestly not sure what a UTH is. Plugged in the heating pad and turned off the lights.

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Alright, that ensures that he's not overheating currently. They should feel just slightly cool to the touch. Give him some time to let the water work in. You can soak him but depending on how he's doing, it may stress him out more than just giving him some time. I would keep the lights off and let him rest. When you moved him, did he seem completely limp or was he moving a little on his own?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moonwise11

Hasn't moved much if at all since I got water on him and moved him.

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is he still alive?
the cover for the lights may cover the whole tank but they warm air is going up to them, so it is not keeping the heat inside the cage it is heating the cover for the lights. so take the lights off and put a piece of glass or a towel or anything that will cover 75% of the tank, so the heat and humidity stay IN the tank. i would get in your car and find a 24 hr walmart and go pic up a acurite now.

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Originally Posted by Dracoluna

Alright, that ensures that he's not overheating currently. They should feel just slightly cool to the touch. Give him some time to let the water work in. You can soak him but depending on how he's doing, it may stress him out more than just giving him some time. I would keep the lights off and let him rest. When you moved him, did he seem completely limp or was he moving a little on his own?

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A little on his own, but not much.

Ok, just judging by that, I'd say that he's pretty critical at this point. If his skin looks dry/wrinkly, he's probably dehydrated. You can use warm water on a paper towel, wring it out so it's not dripping, and put it over him. It will help keep moisture on him to get him rehydrated. What's his breathing look like? Fast, slow, deep, shallow? When he opened his mouth before, was it pink or white? I'll be honest, when a snake gets to this point, they don't have much of a chance but the more information you can give us about his physical condition will help.

Sad to report it was too late. He's passed on already.

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Originally Posted by moonwise11

Sad to report it was too late. He's passed on already.

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Sorry for you loss. If you do decide to get another ball, check out some of the caresheets on here to get a proper setup and get a baby from a breeder instead of a pet store. Many of the ones from the pet stores are already malnourished and dehydrated making it harder to get them going well. It's easier to start out with a healthy animal that you know the background on than one from the pet store. I never realized how true that was until I compared my girl to the ones I saw at Petco.