Ugh.. I think she's sick

Hello again, I finally fed my snakes today after 2+ weeks of being off food due to the mite infestation.

I think the mite situation is under control even tho I still catch a glimpse of one crawling around, they definitely are dying off. I have them on white paper towels in their tank.

The male ate a full grown mouse. His first of that size. And because she's still small, I gave the female my the last hopper which had actually grown a bit in two weeks. I had been keeping the mice alive all this time; well fed and watered.

But she regurgitated it at some point after she ate it. She was not disturbed the entire time; during or after eating it. As a rule I don't handle them for at least 2 days after they eat. This is the first time either one of them had done that. She keeps looking shaky to me. My gut tells me she's not well.

I will be going out of town Friday so I think unless I can manage to get out of work sometime tomorrow, I won't be able to take her to the vet until next week. This worries me.

She just doesn't look right.

And before anyone asks, the PAM had nothing to do with it. As paranoid as I was about it, I sprayed the tank in the yard and didn't bring it back indoors for 24 hours. And did not return the snakes to this tank until another 12 hours after that.

This does not bode well with me. I really do not want to lose my first snake so soon after getting it.


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They're... in the same tank? Why aren't the separate? That might be the reason for the regurge, if the snake's stressed. How sure are you that it was the female that regurged and not the male?

If they're in the same tank the very first thing to do is separate them into their own enclosures.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Hello again, I finally fed my snakes today after 2+ weeks of being off food due to the mite infestation.

I think the mite situation is under control even tho I still catch a glimpse of one crawling around, they definitely are dying off. I have them on white paper towels in their tank.

The male ate a full grown mouse. His first of that size. And because she's still small, I gave the female my the last hopper which had actually grown a bit in two weeks. I had been keeping the mice alive all this time; well fed and watered.

But she regurgitated it at some point after she ate it. She was not disturbed the entire time; during or after eating it. As a rule I don't handle them for at least 2 days after they eat. This is the first time either one of them had done that. She keeps looking shaky to me. My gut tells me she's not well.

I will be going out of town Friday so I think unless I can manage to get out of work sometime tomorrow, I won't be able to take her to the vet until next week. This worries me.

She just doesn't look right.

And before anyone asks, the PAM had nothing to do with it. As paranoid as I was about it, I sprayed the tank in the yard and didn't bring it back indoors for 24 hours. And did not return the snakes to this tank until another 12 hours after that.

This does not bode well with me. I really do not want to lose my first snake so soon after getting it.


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It sounds like your two snakes share a tank. If so, the most important thing to do is separate them or get a divider. This prevents one snake from spreading any type of potential illness and/or mites to the other. And while it's rare, ball pythons can cannibalize each other and should not share an enclosure unless for breeding purposes.

Lots of things can lead to a regurge. Can you describe your husbandry? Temperature, humidity, hides, etc etc.
How much do your snakes weight?

Can you take a picture of the female?

They used to live together but they have been separated with a makeshift egg crate type divider for about a week or more.

The permanent solution is an acrylic divider in a different tank but that is not ready for them yet. There is no doubt in my mind that the regurgitated mouse was from her. It was brown and smaller than the white one the male ate. And I watched her eat it.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

They used to live together but they have been separated with a makeshift egg crate type divider for about a week or more.

The permanent solution is an acrylic divider in a different tank but that is not ready for them yet. There is no doubt in my mind that the regurgitated mouse was from her. It was brown and smaller than the white one the male ate. And I watched her eat it.

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That still leaves an open door for airborne pathogens. Not good. They really should be in entirely different enclosures. I know we've gone over this before, though.

Yes, I have thought of this as well. And I've thought of just putting one of the snakes in the other tank instead of dividing it. (I have a 55 and a 75) but I have also bee told these tanks are too big. So the 3rd solution would be to toss out both tank altogether and get two smaller ones. But that seems like such a waste. I don't like throwing money away. But I really don't want to beat a dead horse by brain dumping my thoughts on tank sizes and housing.


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^ Ditch the tank and get two 15-28qt tubs for each of them (~$6 a piece), get a UTH for both and get them regulated and there's your cheap setup for each of them.

Hrm. Which of these is a better choice to do?

#1). Leave her alone a few days and take her to a vet next week?

Or

#2). Take her to work with me, call the vet, and then take her to the vet from there?

I know they will see her tomorrow if I call and declare an emergency.

I'm also wondering if I'm just overreacting here. But she really doesn't look right and the fact she hasn't grown doesn't help things. Even knowing that it's normal for females to grow slower than males. It doesn't stop the worry.


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Thank you. I will definitely heed your advice an look into alternative housing.


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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

I sprayed the tank in the yard and didn't bring it back indoors for 24 hours. And did not return the snakes to this tank until another 12 hours after that.

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Where were your snakes during this 36 hour period, and how were they heated during that time?

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Originally Posted by Slim

Where were your snakes during this 36 hour period, and how were they heated during that time?

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In yet another tank I have (a 30g) and heated with a heat lamp (smaller one I had in the garage as their usual one is too huge for a 30g).

I guess I just don't understand why you still have them in the same tank, if you have two tanks at your disposal?

Well, Thomas, I could go into detail about how the 30g isn't mine, but my kids really since I gave it to them; and how I have to get rid of one of the big tanks because of a deal I've made with my husband so keeping them both would be doable but not without a fight for reasons I doubt anyone really cares to endure reading about.

Whether they should be in the same (divided) tank is not in question right now. I'm not asking about that. I'm asking about the female possibly needing to be seen by a vet (or not). I honestly don't know why (after the last painful thread where it was hashed and rehashed) I really find myself having to explain it again.

Thanks for all your helpful advice on the matter, but I think I will just call the vet in the morning and ask their opinion but knowing how vets operate, if they tell me "don't worry about it", I might just fall out of my chair from shock.

I would guess this isn't something a vet can fix, rather your husbandry could fix. Get them in properly sized and heated seperate enclosures. From the sounds of things there could be several reasons for the regurge.

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Well, Manasha-Bogo, I could go into detail about how I've been around here long enough to know which horses you can run to the water, and which ones you have to slow walk to the point. A point you have repeatedly missed, first in the last painful thread, and now, more and more in this one.

Absolutely, take your snake to the Vet. And until you get your husbandry right, you can probably plan for more visits in the future.

Good luck with your animals.

Now now everyone, let's not get frustrated here. The OP has acknowledged there is a problem and that she is working to fix it. It will just take her a little bit of time. We can not hope to understand any previous personal issues which have resulted in the current situation, but rather must look to the problem at hand. Yes, housing them together is certainly a bad idea, especially if one is ill (as seen with the mites) and for many other reasons which have been mentioned both here and in her previous thread.

The question at hand however, is whether or not the snake should be taken to the vet. First, to the OP, could you please tell us what your temps are in the enclosure?

Also, if she regurged the mouse as quickly as you made it seem, it may not be entirely the result of a heating issue. You have had other concerns about her general health since you brought her home, so in this instance I think perhaps it would be wise to take her to a vet. Especially if you have never taken her before. At the very least it could bring you peace of mind if the vet concludes there is nothing wrong with her. However, do NOT take her to work with you and then to the vet. That kind of stress will not help her situation in the least if she is ill. Rather, call the vet and see what times they can meet with you that work with your schedule. Many vets also work weekends, so you could also take her then. But only take her from home straight to the vet and back. If she is ill, she will need the least additional stress you can manage.

However, if the earliest you can take her is Monday, she will likely be okay until then. Just keep a close eye on her and if she seems to get worse, take her in ASAP. If you have taken her to the vet before, and the vet cleared her, but this new symptom has arisen...you can also likely wait until Monday or so and she will again, likely, be fine. As in all other possible scenarios mentioned, keep an eye on her and if you notice her condition worsening noticeably, take her to the vet at the earliest possible time.

I hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Well, Manasha-Bogo, I could go into detail about how I've been around here long enough to know which horses you can run to the water, and which ones you have to slow walk to the point. A point you have repeatedly missed, first in the last painful thread, and now, more and more in this one.

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Which is? What point is it that I have missed? That they should be separated? In case you haven't read where I typed it out before, THEY ARE.

That they needed to be kept in a heated enclosure while their other tank was being decontaminated? In case you also missed that one too. THEY WERE.

That they should be kept not in a divided enclosure but in two separate enclosures smaller altogether. Again, in case you missed it, I said OK I WILL LISTEN TO YOU.

Is there something else that I didn't "get"? Please explain it because I don't see it.

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Originally Posted by Slim

And until you get your husbandry right, you can probably plan for more visits in the future.

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So you're telling me that if she's sick, it's because she is living in a glass tank instead of a plastic tub? Everything else being equal, how does that make sense?

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Originally Posted by WarriorPrincess90

Now now everyone, let's not get frustrated here. The OP has acknowledged there is a problem and that she is working to fix it. It will just take her a little bit of time. We can not hope to understand any previous personal issues which have resulted in the current situation, but rather must look to the problem at hand. Yes, housing them together is certainly a bad idea, especially if one is ill (as seen with the mites) and for many other reasons which have been mentioned both here and in her previous thread.

The question at hand however, is whether or not the snake should be taken to the vet. First, to the OP, could you please tell us what your temps are in the enclosure?

Also, if she regurged the mouse as quickly as you made it seem, it may not be entirely the result of a heating issue. You have had other concerns about her general health since you brought her home, so in this instance I think perhaps it would be wise to take her to a vet. Especially if you have never taken her before. At the very least it could bring you peace of mind if the vet concludes there is nothing wrong with her. However, do NOT take her to work with you and then to the vet. That kind of stress will not help her situation in the least if she is ill. Rather, call the vet and see what times they can meet with you that work with your schedule. Many vets also work weekends, so you could also take her then. But only take her from home straight to the vet and back. If she is ill, she will need the least additional stress you can manage.

However, if the earliest you can take her is Monday, she will likely be okay until then. Just keep a close eye on her and if she seems to get worse, take her in ASAP. If you have taken her to the vet before, and the vet cleared her, but this new symptom has arisen...you can also likely wait until Monday or so and she will again, likely, be fine. As in all other possible scenarios mentioned, keep an eye on her and if you notice her condition worsening noticeably, take her to the vet at the earliest possible time.

I hope this helps.

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THANK YOU!!

That makes sense. I certainly don't want to stress her as she looks a bit shaky. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

That they should be separated? In case you haven't read where I typed it out before, THEY ARE.

Snakes in the same tank with an egg crate between them really don't qualify as being seperated. At least not in my mind. Especially in light of the mite issue and now having one that is possibly sick.


So you're telling me that if she's sick, it's because she is living in a glass tank instead of a plastic tub? Everything else being equal, how does that make sense?

Point of order, Madam Chairman, I never said your snake is sick because she's not in a plastic tub. Though, that would be an awesome and relatively inexpensive way to seperate your ball pythons

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you did ask about temperature... I don't want it to seem as if I'm blowing that off so here it is..

I have a thermometer with a probe on the basking "rock" (if you wanna call it that). It remains pretty steady around 91-93 degrees F. the rest of the tank fluctuates between 75 degrees at night and 83+ during the day while the heat lamp is on. I know the night temp should stay higher than this. It definitely will drop lower in the winter (even tho this is s. florida, it does get in the 40's & 50's). I have looked into solutions for that including under-tank heating but that won't work with the way the tank stand is solid wood and not open underneath.

I have the big honking heat lamp in the middle and their hides are as close to the middle as they can go on either side of the divider. water on opposite ends of the tank. plain white paper towel on the bottom. nothing else in there right now as I'm waiting for all evidence of mites to disappear. They spend all their time on top of, beside, or inside their hides which are directly under the one heat lamp. Every once in a while I catch them in soaking in their water. that's about all I can think to describe.

Dearest Thomas "Slim" Whitman,

It is with great regret and sadness that I must inform you that you will from now until forever, be ignored.

Hopefully you do a better job biking and humvee-ing than dispensing advice.

Have a good day.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Dearest Thomas "Slim" Whitman,

It is with great regret and sadness that I must inform you that you will from now until forever, be ignored.

Hopefully you do a better job biking and humvee-ing than dispensing advice.

Have a good day.

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How AWESOME is that! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Somehow, I don't think your sadness is quite so great :D

Like I said before, good luck with your snakes, and here's to horses everywhere eventually drinking the water...

At least we can say that she did not regurge due to improper temps.:)

While your temps sound fine, I have to agree with Slim about the egg crate divider. It won't help isolate illness and mites (sounds like your mite problem is solved though). If you want to keep your male healthy, it is highly recommended to totally separate the female. You can use a solid wall, but the best thing is to put her in quarantine in a separate enclosure.

She sounds small, a hatchling? Since it sounds like you can't use any other tanks, she will do well in a temporary 6qt-15qt tub set up until she is well again or if you find out she's not contagious. At walmart a 6qt tub is $2. A 15 qt is less than $5. A foot of flexwatt from a reptile store ranges $2-5. (flexwatt heat tape needs a thermostat.)
The small space will probably reduce some stress on your girl as well. Tubs also make great carriers for vet trips.

All in all, just think of it as keeping a newborn child away from a sick sibling.

Good luck. :)
Hope she gets well soon.
Keep us updated.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

you did ask about temperature... I don't want it to seem as if I'm blowing that off so here it is..

I have a thermometer with a probe on the basking "rock" (if you wanna call it that). It remains pretty steady around 91-93 degrees F. the rest of the tank fluctuates between 75 degrees at night and 83+ during the day while the heat lamp is on. I know the night temp should stay higher than this. It definitely will drop lower in the winter (even tho this is s. florida, it does get in the 40's & 50's). I have looked into solutions for that including under-tank heating but that won't work with the way the tank stand is solid wood and not open underneath.

I have the big honking heat lamp in the middle and their hides are as close to the middle as they can go on either side of the divider. water on opposite ends of the tank. plain white paper towel on the bottom. nothing else in there right now as I'm waiting for all evidence of mites to disappear. They spend all their time on top of, beside, or inside their hides which are directly under the one heat lamp. Every once in a while I catch them in soaking in their water. that's about all I can think to describe.

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I'm not going to go into the seperation thing as that's been discussed...

My thoughts:
Your temps aren't bad, however I would recommended ditching the lamp for an under the tank heater. Either flex Watt, heat cable, or just a uth mat that comes with little rubber feet that you put on the corners of the tank to raise it up. You will need a thermostat to control it and if you are looking to save money just buy the hygrotherm off Amazon for the mat. The other uths will be better utilized with a proportional tstat. The lamp sucks the humidity out of the air and is usually only recommended to bump up the temps as a secondary to the uth. Hope the snakes are feeling better...

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First, I want to express that I really do appreciate getting all of your help. I have trusted online communities as a resource for animal care literally for decades and I can tell that this is a great community despite a few brushes with people more intent on berating than helping. Its pretty easy for me to spot a great forum after being a professional "board member" for many years. And I like this place which is probably why I'll keep coming back. My main goal is to help my snakes. Not to be liked. I couldn't care less about being liked.

The idea of ditching the lamp really puts a smile on my face. I would love to ditch the lamp. Thanks for all the uth ideas. I'll have something set up by end of next week. It does take time to get things done because whatever I go with for heating will have to get ordered and delivered.

The vet opens in 45 minutes. I'll call then and see if I can get an early vet visit before work. Work is between home and the vet which is why I was entertaining the idea of taking her to work but work is a cold place and the car would be too hot so it would be best to go straight to the vet then backtrack to work. I have a lot going on at work so the stress level for me is high right now. Not to mention it is "take your child to work" day and I'll be lugging my kids around with me all day and need to finish a ton of work since I will be out of town tomorrow thru Sunday to see the in-laws (generating even more stress).

I was up trying to get some of the work done that *has* to get done in an attempt to lighten the load on myself today but that didn't go well.

Anyways, If I can "give" the snake to the vet today so they can care for her until next week that would take a load of worry off. If they don't think it's necessary to keep her, then that may be a good sign. I don't care about vet costs. I have spent about $1000 since last month on my dogs and my pet rabbits alone. And that only covers 1/half of my pets. I still have 2 conures and 1 African grey tht need to see a vet (not because they're sick, but as a pre-requisite to being cleared for fostering parrots).

I wonder if you all really cared about all that? Just saying...

Anyways, I'll keep checking in and learning as much as I can. I do have ideas for the big tank that I think would make it a perfect habitat for the snakes. I'll post those ideas for feedback in the husbandry section. UTH will definitely be part of it.


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The vet visit at 9am EDT (15 mins from now). I'm headed towards the vet now after making a pit stop at work to save face. (my boss sux)

So manasha (the snake) looks OK right now. The last time I took a pet to the vet I was this worried about was my dog Scully. She was a 9 yr old Jack Russell. She didn't last the day. Pretty sad story actually. Anyway......


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So she's in the doctor's hands now.

Doc is very concerned. Says Manasha is "critical". And I just dropped as much money as they both cost to begin with. Oooh Fun!!!


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Also I thought it was telling that the vet asked where I got her from. Then told me that they've seen a lot of sick reptiles from people who got them from the same place.

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Well I hope she pulls through.
I understand the use of a heat lamp and all but thumbs up on getting a heat mat. I just recently got rid of all my lamps (except for the lizards.) Technology in keeping snakes has improved so much over the past few years and for some people it's hard to keep up.

But good luck and I'm hoping for a good and fast recovery.

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Originally Posted by Foxtuning65

Well I hope she pulls through.
I understand the use of a heat lamp and all but thumbs up on getting a heat mat. I just recently got rid of all my lamps (except for the lizards.) Technology in keeping snakes has improved so much over the past few years and for some people it's hard to keep up.

But good luck and I'm hoping for a good and fast recovery.

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Yea, my biggest mistake with the snakes was assuming that I could reuse all the same equipment I had with my bearded dragon. The tank, furniture, heat lamp, UV lights, etc...

Turns out *all* of that was wrong.

Don't need UV lighting, don't need big tank, certainly not the furniture, and not even the heat lamp....

So I've gone back to the drawing board a few times in my head. But even being better prepared would not have changed the outcome for Manasha because I'm certain now that she came to me sick from the herp store.

I should have taken her to the vet sooner tho... like 2 weeks ago when I was first concerned about her growth. But... can't change the past.... :(

So how is she doing? Any word from the vet?

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

But even being better prepared would not have changed the outcome for Manasha because I'm certain now that she came to me sick from the herp store.

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You don't think the stress of 3 months of being housed in a bearded dragon set up, with another snake, and mites, and being under fed had anything to do with it?

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Originally Posted by Foxtuning65

So how is she doing? Any word from the vet?

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Nope, no word yet. She (the vet) said that she was going to test her for several things including Cryptosporidium. She said she thought the snake had this because she has a distended mid section and lots of gas, but won't know for sure without the tests.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

First, I want to express that I really do appreciate getting all of your help. I have trusted online communities as a resource for animal care literally for decades and I can tell that this is a great community despite a few brushes with people more intent on berating than helping. Its pretty easy for me to spot a great forum after being a professional "board member" for many years. And I like this place which is probably why I'll keep coming back. My main goal is to help my snakes. Not to be liked. I couldn't care less about being liked.

The idea of ditching the lamp really puts a smile on my face. I would love to ditch the lamp. Thanks for all the uth ideas. I'll have something set up by end of next week. It does take time to get things done because whatever I go with for heating will have to get ordered and delivered.

The vet opens in 45 minutes. I'll call then and see if I can get an early vet visit before work. Work is between home and the vet which is why I was entertaining the idea of taking her to work but work is a cold place and the car would be too hot so it would be best to go straight to the vet then backtrack to work. I have a lot going on at work so the stress level for me is high right now. Not to mention it is "take your child to work" day and I'll be lugging my kids around with me all day and need to finish a ton of work since I will be out of town tomorrow thru Sunday to see the in-laws (generating even more stress).

I was up trying to get some of the work done that *has* to get done in an attempt to lighten the load on myself today but that didn't go well.

Anyways, If I can "give" the snake to the vet today so they can care for her until next week that would take a load of worry off. If they don't think it's necessary to keep her, then that may be a good sign. I don't care about vet costs. I have spent about $1000 since last month on my dogs and my pet rabbits alone. And that only covers 1/half of my pets. I still have 2 conures and 1 African grey tht need to see a vet (not because they're sick, but as a pre-requisite to being cleared for fostering parrots).

I wonder if you all really cared about all that? Just saying...

Anyways, I'll keep checking in and learning as much as I can. I do have ideas for the big tank that I think would make it a perfect habitat for the snakes. I'll post those ideas for feedback in the husbandry section. UTH will definitely be part of it.


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If you have all this stuff going on, why would you want to foster parrots, and throw more of a load on yourself? I would just get all your animals squared away before you worry about helping other ones.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

If you have all this stuff going on, why would you want to foster parrots, and throw more of a load on yourself? I would just get all your animals squared away before you worry about helping other ones.

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Hi DrDooLittle, that's a valid question deserving of an answer. The best way I can think of answering is just to say that if I felt the need to put my life on hold whenever it threw a wrench at me, then you would be right. IOW, If I couldn't handle it, then I would agree that I shouldn't.

To explain further (since there seems to be an active interest in my personal life), I will go on to explain how life has its ups and downs as everyone breathing should know. Life has its hard times and easy times, busy and slow, challenging and trivial, etc. The important thing to remember is that we should try our best to enjoy the good times and then to avoid crumbling under the pressure of the hard times. A little bit of running around and huffing and puffing has never hurt anyone, least of all me. If I had only a single pet and it was Manasha, the same thing would have happened than if I had had 20 additional pets than I do.

Some people's stress threshold are higher than others. I guess mine is just higher than most? :cool:

I wasn't talking about stress levels. I meant taking care of the pets you have now and getting them all properly squared away before you take on other peoples pets.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

I wasn't talking about stress levels. I meant taking care of the pets you have now and getting them all properly squared away before you take on other peoples pets.

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My answer applies to that as well. When you own pets, have kids, own property, have a boss, etc, you risk having to answer to the needs of all those things at once including one or more of them getting sick. It happens. I went 4 years without a single pet getting sick. But then all hell breaks loose and I have a dog with hookworm, 2 rabbits with e. cuniculi, and a snake at the vets with some kind of bug. This all produces stress.

I can handle it. I can care for all of these guys needing something different. And I wouldn't get rid of them for it. And I wouldn't *not* help another animal in need because of it.

Nevermind. You are still missing my point. I am not talking about stress.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Nevermind. You are still missing my point. I am not talking about stress.

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Yup. You aren't telling the OP what they want to hear, though. I understood you perfectly. :gj:

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Nevermind. You are still missing my point. I am not talking about stress.

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Lol! I guess I'm not giving you the answer you're looking for?

I'm not only talking about stress. I'm talking about the ability to care for and meet the needs of those things/animals/job that depend on me.

Something tells me you would not be satisfied with any answer I give you unless it sounded something like this. ""You're so right, I don't know what I have been thinking. I have been so wrong in my ways. I can't handle all of this crisis. I can't deal with all these things going wrong at once... blah blah..""

I'm really trying to be clear and concise. But I guess it just ain't working? And many would ask why I'm even trying. What does any of this about my personal life, number of pets, their needs, amount of stressors, have anything to do with a single sick reptile?

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If you have all this stuff going on, why would you want to foster parrots, and throw more of a load on yourself? I would just get all your animals squared away before you worry about helping other ones.

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Your words... "worry", "load". I could copy/paste the webster's definition of these words for you.

Load:
the quantity borne or sustained by something; burden: a tree weighed down by its load of fruit.

Worry:
to torment oneself with or suffer from disturbing thoughts; fret.


Nope, I'm not fretting. Do you think you might be?

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Lol! I guess I'm not giving you the answer you're looking for?

I'm not only talking about stress. I'm talking about the ability to care for and meet the needs of those things/animals/job that depend on me.

Something tells me you would not be satisfied with any answer I give you unless it sounded something like this. ""You're so right, I don't know what I have been thinking. I have been so wrong in my ways. I can't handle all of this crisis. I can't deal with all these things going wrong at once... blah blah..""

I'm really trying to be clear and concise. But I guess it just ain't working? And many would ask why I'm even trying. What does any of this about my personal life, number of pets, their needs, amount of stressors, have anything to do with a single sick reptile?

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It has everything to do with you having a sick reptile. You came to us once with a problem. We tried to help. You didn't take our advice and have been rather rude for the most part. Your snake then got sick, which from the facts presented, points towards poor husbandry/care being a likely factor. You still want to deny any possible wrong doing on your part. You want even MORE animals when you're already taking pretty shoddy care of the ones you have because you're too full of pride. You just want to hear us say, "Oh, you're doing great!". You don't seem to want an actual solution, just phishing for compliments. THAT is what I see and that is what I believe several others see. DrDooLittle's point was very simple. You need to start properly caring for the animals you have NOW first before you bring in more animals into your "care".

Honest truth. Block away.

It's not that you can't handle it. Maybe you should just focus on one thing at a time. Why would you want to foster animals when you already have sick ones? I know if I was running a rescue and one of the people wanting to foster my birds had sick animals at home and were too busy trying to bring more animals into that house to foster I wouldn't do it. It's just a bad idea.

What this has to do with your single, sick reptile is that your single, sick reptile is sick because of improper care because you're not paying enough attention and didn't do your research. And your other hopefully still healthy reptile is being exposed to the exact same conditions and the sick animal. What do you do when you have one animal with a potentially contagious disease and one healthy one? You separate them. They should hvae been separate from the very beginning. You can't pony up the $12 for two tubs, or you refuse to because who knows why. You obviously don't know what you're doing and are refusing to listen to the people who do know what they're doing and who you came to for help.

We're trying to help, that's all. We're not attacking you as a person. We're maybe questioning your judgement and your decisions but not your capacity to handle stress.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AK907

It has everything to do with you having a sick reptile. You came to us once with a problem. We tried to help. You didn't take our advice and have been rather rude for the most part. Your snake then got sick, which from the facts presented, points towards poor husbandry/care being a likely factor. You still want to deny any possible wrong doing on your part. You want even MORE animals when you're already taking pretty shoddy care of the ones you have because you're too full of pride. You just want to hear us say, "Oh, you're doing great!". You don't seem to want an actual solution, just phishing for compliments. THAT is what I see and that is what I believe several others see. DrDooLittle's point was very simple. You need to start properly caring for the animals you have NOW first before you bring in more animals into your "care".

Honest truth. Block away.

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AK907,

If I were only interested in getting praise from others on the internet, why would I stay in a place where obviously everyone seems to dislike me (for whatever the reason?)

I gave facts about the temperature and conditions in their enclosure and was told those temperatures were good. If you can give me hard evidence of the advice that I refuse to take, please point those out to me. Because I have yet to see a single shred of advice I have rejected on here.

Get them separated? Done.
Get them the right temperature? Done.
Get them the right humidity? Done.
Get them even more separated? Working on it.
Get the mites taken care of? Done.
Stop going to the herp store? Done.
Take the snake to the vet? Done.

hmmm??? So?? what have I rejected ? Please point it out.

I've been rude? show me where I was rude when it was unwarranted.

Wow... I've seldom been in a message board where newcomers are so poorly treated. Why is it open to registration then?

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Your words... "worry", "load". I could copy/paste the webster's definition of these words for you.

Load:
the quantity borne or sustained by something; burden: a tree weighed down by its load of fruit.

Worry:
to torment oneself with or suffer from disturbing thoughts; fret.


Nope, I'm not fretting. Do you think you might be?

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If I had a snake whose condition was listed as 'critical' I sure as anything would be fretting. I'd be stressing my head off, doing everything I could for my other snake to make sure he wasn't going to get sick as well. I'd be worrying over my birds and my rabbits (which I don't have, by the way) and my dog and the cats and my betta fish who doesn't understand why I'm fussing over him.

Maybe you don't have the right mindset to be a good pet parent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

It's not that you can't handle it. Maybe you should just focus on one thing at a time. Why would you want to foster animals when you already have sick ones? I know if I was running a rescue and one of the people wanting to foster my birds had sick animals at home and were too busy trying to bring more animals into that house to foster I wouldn't do it. It's just a bad idea.

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What that person making sure their sick animals were getting treated and getting the care that they needed? Did they just want to increase their collection? Or did they actually have a genuine concern for their animals?
That's what's important. Not your personal opinion about how many pets is too many or whether the sick pets in the house were sick because of their own wrongful doing.

Any pet owner should know that pets get sick. REally?? Yes, people get sick . Animals get sick. In order to get sick only one thing must exist. Life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

What this has to do with your single, sick reptile is that your single, sick reptile is sick because of improper care because you're not paying enough attention and didn't do your research. And your other hopefully still healthy reptile is being exposed to the exact same conditions and the sick animal. What do you do when you have one animal with a potentially contagious disease and one healthy one? You separate them. They should hvae been separate from the very beginning. You can't pony up the $12 for two tubs, or you refuse to because who knows why. You obviously don't know what you're doing and are refusing to listen to the people who do know what they're doing and who you came to for help.

We're trying to help, that's all. We're not attacking you as a person. We're maybe questioning your judgement and your decisions but not your capacity to handle stress.

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There we go again saying that I *refuse* the help that I've been given. Wow... So I should have held up a walmart at 4am so that I could get my 2 tubs between last night when it was suggested to me and today before work ?

honestly...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

If I had a snake whose condition was listed as 'critical' I sure as anything would be fretting. I'd be stressing my head off, doing everything I could for my other snake to make sure he wasn't going to get sick as well. I'd be worrying over my birds and my rabbits (which I don't have, by the way) and my dog and the cats and my betta fish who doesn't understand why I'm fussing over him.

Maybe you don't have the right mindset to be a good pet parent.

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LOL!! I guess slaving over this website and 20 others while I should be working and hiding it from my boss is not worry enough for you? Are you watching me or something?? Cuz you sure seem to think you know me better than I know myself. <shakes head>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

What that person making sure their sick animals were getting treated and getting the care that they needed? Did they just want to increase their collection? Or did they actually have a genuine concern for their animals?
That's what's important. Not your personal opinion about how many pets is too many or whether the sick pets in the house were sick because of their own wrongful doing.

Any pet owner should know that pets get sick. REally?? Yes, people get sick . Animals get sick. In order to get sick only one thing must exist. Life.

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What about that person whose animals are all healthy and well cared for? The obvious thing to a rescue organization is making sure the person fostering has healthy animals. What are they going to do if they're financially responsible for the animal's wellbeing and it gets sick under your watch? It's obviously your fault that animal got sick. If it dies, it's your fault as well if what if got sick and died from is something that your animal should have been cured of.

I never said anything about a person having too many animals. NEVER. Stop saying I said things I didn't.

A well-cared for animal in a clean and appropriate environment will be sick far less often than an animal in unsuitable conditions. That is a fact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

There we go again saying that I *refuse* the help that I've been given. Wow... So I should have held up a walmart at 4am so that I could get my 2 tubs between last night when it was suggested to me and today before work ?

honestly...

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Yes. Or you could have gone to walmart the week before (or however long it's been since separating your snakes totally was discussed, I honestly don't care anymore) during the day when you had time off work to get tubs. It's not like they're only open for an hour once a month. There are a lot of Walmarts and other stores that are open 24/7.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

LOL!! I guess slaving over this website and 20 others while I should be working and hiding it from my boss is not worry enough for you? Are you watching me or something?? Cuz you sure seem to think you know me better than I know myself. <shakes head>

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Obviously I do. You don't seem to be very worried. All you seem to be worried about is saying that you're 'not stressed' which is counterpoint to what you just said about 'being stressed' and arguing with the people that are trying to help your snakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

What about that person whose animals are all healthy and well cared for? The obvious thing to a rescue organization is making sure the person fostering has healthy animals. What are they going to do if they're financially responsible for the animal's wellbeing and it gets sick under your watch? It's obviously your fault that animal got sick. If it dies, it's your fault as well if what if got sick and died from is something that your animal should have been cured of.

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Not my fault if the animal came sick from the place I got it, now is it?
Should have taken her to the vet 2 weeks ago. Agreed. I said as much in an earlier post. Hindsight is 20/20. Do you want me to commit seppuku for not having done something I probably should have? Did anyone recommend in the other thread that I should take her to the vet? No. So that hindsight = 20/20 applies to everyone who got worked up over the separation issue. Everyone was too blinded by the fact they were living together to see that just maybe she was really sick and needed to be seen by a vet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

I never said anything about a person having too many animals. NEVER. Stop saying I said things I didn't.

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Please stop saying that I've refused advice when I haven't. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

A well-cared for animal in a clean and appropriate environment will be sick far less often than an animal in unsuitable conditions. That is a fact.

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Agreed. Which is why I give all my animals a clean and appropriate environment. And if I don't know how or have questions, I go looking for the right answers. Hence, why I am here. But to tell you the truth I have spent more time here explaining my personal decisions than I have learning anything new.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

Yes. Or you could have gone to walmart the week before (or however long it's been since separating your snakes totally was discussed, I honestly don't care anymore) during the day when you had time off work to get tubs. It's not like they're only open for an hour once a month. There are a lot of Walmarts and other stores that are open 24/7.

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Why does your snake care sheet list glass enclosures as one of the acceptable living quarters for a ball python if it is, in fact, so frowned upon? Maybe you should file a complaint with the board moderators instead of trying to convince me that I suck. lol!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

Obviously I do. You don't seem to be very worried. All you seem to be worried about is saying that you're 'not stressed' which is counterpoint to what you just said about 'being stressed' and arguing with the people that are trying to help your snakes.

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Lol, stress is a healthy (yes, healthy) thing. But don't take my word for it, look it up yourself. It's "too much" stress that is bad. When it starts to affect your health and makes you age prematurely. Maybe another mistake I have made is to assume you can read between the lines and could tell what I meant. Sorry, next time I'll spell things out like you're a 6 year old.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Not my fault if the animal came sick from the place I got it, now is it?
Should have taken her to the vet 2 weeks ago. Agreed. I said as much in an earlier post. Hindsight is 20/20. Do you want me to commit seppuku for not having done something I probably should have? Did anyone recommend in the other thread that I should take her to the vet? No. So that hindsight = 20/20 applies to everyone who got worked up over the separation issue. Everyone was too blinded by the fact they were living together to see that just maybe she was really sick and needed to be seen by a vet.

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I'll just quote Slim here. Since you're ignoring him, you probably haven't read this yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

You don't think the stress of 3 months of being housed in a bearded dragon set up, with another snake, and mites, and being under fed had anything to do with it?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Please stop saying that I've refused advice when I haven't. ;)

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You've refused to actually separate your snakes. That seems to be refusing advice. When we say 'separate' we mean 'different enclosures'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Agreed. Which is why I give all my animals a clean and appropriate environment. And if I don't know how or have questions, I go looking for the right answers. Hence, why I am here. But to tell you the truth I have spent more time here explaining my personal decisions than I have learning anything new.

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Obviously not, if they have mites and are sick.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Why does your snake care sheet list glass enclosures as one of the acceptable living quarters for a ball python if it is, in fact, so frowned upon? Maybe you should file a complaint with the board moderators instead of trying to convince me that I suck. lol!

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A glass enclosure is fine so long as it provides all the right husbandry which includes not being in the same enclosure as another snake and in one that's much too big besides. Maybe you should listen to what I'm saying instead of telling me I said something I didn't. Did I ever say 'you suck'? No.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Lol, stress is a healthy (yes, healthy) thing. But don't take my word for it, look it up yourself. It's "too much" stress that is bad. When it starts to affect your health and makes you age prematurely. Maybe another mistake I have made is to assume you can read between the lines and could tell what I meant. Sorry, next time I'll spell things out like you're a 6 year old.

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Hey, I know stress is a semi-healthy thing. I'm sorry I'm apparently not the wizard at 'reading between the lines' that you are. I'm sorry I only have an english degree and know exactly how to deconstruct what you're saying for meaning and intent. I apologize that I come of as a 6 year old, but you're the one calling me names.

Also, I'm done with this thread. I'm not going to wish your snake's death on you, but if she does pass because of your inadequate care I hope it's peaceful and pain-free. And I hope any of your other pets don't manage to get sick despite their lack of care because you sure won't make sure they have what they need. And I really hope that you don't foster any animals ever because they didn't ask to be moved into a home where there are things that might make them ill.

Moderators, if I've crossed the line somewhere, please be sure to correct me, I would appreciate it.