I'm in the market for a BP

Hello BP.net forum-goers,

I am new to the forum and just have a few quick questions! Recently I have been getting more and more interested in purchasing a BP for a pet. Here's a little background of myself. I have owned snakes before in the past (Kingsnakes/Gophers), but never a BP. I am 19 and will be taking my snake with me to college (I will be renting an apartment and have my own room in a pet friendly complex so there should not be any issues), and am looking for a good companion snake. I have chosen a BP as my primary candidate due to the fact that they have the most wonderful dispositions and are very calm snakes.

I was just wondering if anyone could tell me a little about which are some of the more affordable morphs/which affordable morphs would be a good investment if I ever decide to breed in the future. However I will most likely never breed, I would just like to have one BP as a pet (hence why I would like to invest in a morph since the snake will be a companion of mine for a while).

Along the lines of morphs does anyone know a good breeder in the Northern California region? I am about 30 minutes North of Sacramento but am willing to drive a little in order to pick up a BP (I would prefer not to order them from a breeder online and have them shipped as I would first like to see the snakes pattern/color and behavior and I do not want the snake to become stressed by being shipped). I have heard that it is best to stay away from the general pet stores such as Petco for buying snakes. What is everyone's thought on the matter? The Petco near where I live has a gentleman in charge that is a snake enthusiast and seems to take great care of the snakes there. The cages all looked clean, he was able to handle all of the snakes and they were calm, they are already on a frozen diet, and they seem relatively young (right around 16 inches in length). He also highly recommended a BP.

My last question is about the humidity. I have read that BPs can have issues with shedding if the humidity is not in the correct range. I will be purchasing a 40 gallon tank with a top and clamp for the top. I already have a burrow (half of a hollowed out log) for the snake, a fake tree for climbing, water bowl, astroturf (of the variety specifically sold for reptiles in the store), heating pad, lamp, thermometer, etc. As I mentioned I am in Northern California right around the Sacramento region and it can become very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. The cage will be in my bedroom of the apartment which will have one window. Will there be anything special that I will have to do to make sure my tank has the correct humidity levels?

Thank you very much in advance for any help you can provide and I apologize for all of the questions (I hope that I did not post this in the wrong section of the forum).

-Christian

I wouldn't get a 40 gallon, they are terrible for BP's. tubs and PVC cages are a much better choice. Tubs and PVC cages hold in heat and humidity very well and will make your life much easier.

Here is some info on tubs and PVC cages

Tubs: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basics...*DUW*

PVC Cages: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!

Half logs are possibly the worst hides you can use, as they do not offer any security to the BP. these hides sold at reptile basics are considered to be the best by many.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/072429b1.jpg

BP's are terrestrial so climbing branches are not necessary but are ok if you want one.

astroturf isn't the best idea. I personally use corrugated wrap for substrate, but paper towels, butchers paper, newspaper, aspen, cypress mulch, and coco-husk are all good choices.

You are also missing the most important piece of equipment. a thermostat to regulate the heating pad. unregulated a heating pad can easily get over 150 degrees. this is hot enough to kill a snake. It also can short out and start a fire. a thermostat is absolutely mandatory. Don't waste your money on the crap sold in pet stores... and don't ask them for advice. they give out terrible information about reptiles.

here are 2 good thermostats:

budget (should be replaced with a better one when possible)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NZZG3S/...13134469453409

Best: http://spyderrobotics.com/

make sure that the thermometers that you get are digital ones. once again the stuff sold in pet stores is crap and a waste of your money. you should get one of these. they are sold at Walmart for $12 and measure 2 temperatures and humidity.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...nt/photo-3.jpg

overall by not using a heat lamp and glass tank your humidity issues should go away. tubs and PVC cages hold humidity in very well...

You should give this a read: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

As for where to get your snake. stay away from petco/petsmart. not only do they charge ungodly amounts of money for their reptiles, but they are usually unhealthy and underweight. Your best bet is to buy from a breeder and have it shipped to you (which is very common and safe)

Here are some good breeders:

Justin Kobylka (he is in Georgia around Atlanta so he is probably the closest to you)

http://www.jkobylkareptiles.com/

Constrictors Unlimited: http://pythonregius.com/

Ralph Davis Reptiles: http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/

There are also many people on this site who breed and are great people.

With any breeders, they cannot post all of their avaliable snakes in their site, so if you don't see anything you like, just give them a call or email. they will be more than willing to help you out.

As for cheap morphs, i would go with Spider, Pastel, Mojave/Lesser/Butter

What he said.:gj:

X3, Aaron covered it all. :)

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

x4! Usually ball pythons have the same type of personality across the board - 90% of the time they're placid, calm creatures. If you're worried about one being aggressive, just email the breeder and ask. Hatchlings can be nippy because you're very, very big and they're very, very small and you're a predator in their tiny minds. The first week or so they're going to be stressed no matter where you get the snake so I wouldn't worry about them being too stressed if you have them shipped.

I would go with a PVC enclosure instead of a tank. Tanks are very hard to keep steady and if you don't have the perfect ambient temps, it's hard to keep a tub warm enough. PVC cages are the perfect balance even though they are the most expensive choice.

Also he said California and not Georgia, guys :P

[QUOTE=Inarikins;1811633Also he said California and not Georgia, guys :P[/QUOTE]

LOL, my bad... I read Carolina instead of California... That will teach me to read things quickly

Welcome to BP.net!

Run away from tanks in general...run even faster from 40 gallon tanks. Aaron gave you the straight skinny on PVC cages and tubs.

As far as cool morphs that won't break the bank, some of my favorites are Spiders, Mojaves, Lessers, Pinstripes, and Pastels. If you are willing to spend $500 to $700, then you can get into some very cool two gene animals like Pastel Lessers, LemonBlasts, a variety of Spider combos.

No matter what you decide to spend, buy the best example you can find of the morph you want. You'll never be sorry you purchased a quality animal.

Wow! Thank you very much for the detailed and helpful responses. I read through all of the articles during my last class lol and think that I will be going with the PVC cage. You mentioned that it's the most expensive however. How much does a typical cage run if I build it to last the snake through adulthood? Also any recommendations for West Coast breeders or anyone from this site? Thanks everyone!

You'll get the best results with a PVC enclosure probably if you buy one. I don't know much about them though because I'm running my only snake in a tub and I'm going to upgrade to a rack so I can get more snakes soon so I won't ever deal with those. I think Animal Plastics has some good ones? Somebody will no doubt chime in and tell me I'm wrong about that, but you should be able to google 'PVC snake enclosures' and find a good selection. Fauna Classifieds might have a few in the housing section for less than a new one. Sometimes people sell off their old enclosures and you might be able to get a secondhand one shipped to you.

All of my cages are made by Animal Plastics. I use their T8 cage for Ball pythons. They cost $150 plus shipping and any add ons that you choose. They are very sturdy and worth the money. You can even stack them.

2 cages stacked

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/c22733cf.jpg

This is a T8

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0459.jpg

Here is their website: http://www.animalplastics.com/

And once again the thread I wrote on animal plastic cages (and PVC cages in general): http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!

On second thought...the PVC cages are a bit pricey for me right now. I would rather spend that money on a morph because I can always change the cage later.

I will be building a tub for the snake. A few quick questions concerning the items to be placed in the tub. I still have a pretty new UTH for a 20 gallon tank. If I attach that to the tub with a thermostat will that provide enough heating without the use of a light? As for the substrate what would you recommend so that the tub will receive enough heat from just the UTH?

I was looking at the morphs and I am particularly fond of the Spider morph. Can you recommend any breeders in the West Coast (or is distance not really of concern when shipping the snakes?) or any breeder on these forums that breed Spiders?

Once again thank you very much for all of your help.

With overnight shipping, distance really isn't a factor. Especially if you arrange to pick up your snake at the nearest FedEx hub, the transit time is minimal.

There are many great breeders on the west coast, including several members here on BP.net. Look for their information in their signature lines.

Many keepers will tell you that Spiders are their favorite ball pythons and they have a great reputation for being good eaters. Just be aware the all Spiders and Spider combos have a neurological issue that can make them do what we call “wobble”. It’s a motion they make with their head. If you look it up on Youtube, you can find several videos. Except in extreme cases, called “Train Wrecks”, the wobble does them no harm, and some find it a charming part of their personality.

For substrate in a tub, I prefer paper. Doesn't really matter if it's news print, corrugated or Kraft paper. It's easy to use, cheap to replace and heat transfers through it well.

Slim beat me to it, but here's all the information he gave again:

Tubs won't give you any ambient temps. You'll need a space heater to get the room (or at least the area around the tub) at least to 75, though 78 or 80 is better. If you can run the heater and the tub in a closet with a door, that would be prefect that way your entire room doesn't have to be heated for a single snake.

Distance isn't much of a concern except it might up shipping with some breeders (if they don't charge a flat rate). Snakes should always be overnighted to your door or to a Fedex/whatever near you.

If you're going to get a spider, I have to ask if you're aware of the wobble? It's not a bad thing, but I know some people don't know about it then get a spider or something with the spider gene in it then panic when it starts corkscrewing or stargazing. I would make sure of ask any breeder you buy from about the snake's wobble - if they do it all the time or only when they eat... Sometimes it's hardly noticeable and sometimes spiders can be trainwrecks.

If you're getting something with the spider gene, I would invest in a bumblebee. They're super pretty and a bit flashier than a regular spider. They're a little more than a spider as they're a two-gene animal ($500ish as opposed to $300ish).

Also if you're not going to be getting more and end up breeding (though chances are the snake bug will bite you bad and you'll want to get more) you can save money and buy a male instead of a female.

I've heard of the wobble and had looked at YouTube but the results were varied slightly. Is it just when the snake has its head tilted and doesn't seem to be able to move in a straight manner?

I have always had a fascination with snakes so I'm sure the snake bug will undoubtedly take its toll on me as well. If I do end up breeding in the future would a female be a better investment than a male? Would I have to worry about eggs being laid at all if I had a single female for a few years? Also what morphs would be the best investment for possible future breeding? I was looking to keep my budget around $250 if possible for my first snake.

There aren't any cutting edge morphs in your price range, but a Pastel or spider female would be your best bet as anything you pair them with looks great.

You want to get a female first because it takes longer for them to get up to breeding size/age. No if you don't have a male you aren't going to get susprise eggs.

Here is a website that you might find interesting.

I am going to give you 2 links. The first is a list of morphs, and the second is a calculator to find out what you would get if you paired 2 snakes together.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HerpsForDerps

I've heard of the wobble and had looked at YouTube but the results were varied slightly.

---

So does the wobble. It varies from snake to snake.

Those websites are cool! Breeding definitely looks like something I would like to get involved with in the future.

What would be a good price for a female Pastel or Spider? I found a female Pastel hatched 7/8/11 feeding on f/t mice for $195 before S&H right now. Is that a pretty reasonable price?

Here's a link to her picture. I'm not entirely sure what to look for in terms of coloring and/or markings.

http://www.vmsherp.com/images/ForSal...s/K010-03F.jpg

That's what I would consider an average Pastel, and the price is ok.

Here is a thread on Pastels:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ot-...-Pastels

These are my 2 pastels (one male, and one female)

Female

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...a/IMG_0002.jpg

Male

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0100.jpg

Hm...after reading that article I see what you mean. Thank you for all of the helpful links!

By the way your snakes are beautiful. I hope I can find one like them! What times of the year do Ball Python's clutches hatch? Is it normally better to look for a BP during the timeframe that all clutches are hatching?

A member had mentioned in an above post to look at the signatures of any post to see whether they breed or not. What is it that will identify those individuals as breeders?

It will be easier to find a really nice Spider female, and that will give you time to hunt for a awesome male Pastel. I am VERY picky about Pastels (well everything in my collection for that matter), and you will (and should) pay a bit more for a spectacular example.

I submit that you get the Spider girl and in a couple of years get a male Calico (the price will be down and availability up).

This smokes any Bumble Bee out there IMO:

The Calider is one of the best 2 gene morphs out there IMO.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...DSC01620-1.jpg

What traits would I be looking for marking wise in a Spider? Also is there a link for breeders that are registered with the website?

I would say for a Spider, look for first and foremost CLEAN, which means no dots. Then decide if you like high white or low white (most like high I think). Next I would say pattern. There are striped ones, reduced pattern ones, busier ones so just go for what strikes your fancy.

Finally make sure it is not a neuro train wreck. VERY VERY few are.

As far as breeders, just do a search. There are breeder threads.

I highly suggest:
Mark Petros
Colin Weaver
Jeremy Smith
Mike Bell


As far as West Coast, Raul from West Coast Jungle is awesome, as is Heather Wong from Heather's Herps. I got my Enchi from Raul, and she is A++. Heather had VERY nice animals at the Pomona show.

There are others I am leaving out, but that is what the search function is for (to replace my failed memory).

I don't think anybody said his but since you asked, eggs are hatching now pretty much all the way through the summer and into the fall and even winter. You're going to be seeing the most May-Augustish.

If you can't find the snake that you want more locally, don't be afraid to look at animals from across the country. Don't settle for a snake you think is 'okay'. Wait, look everywhere, save up a little more money so if you find the one you really want you won't have to worry about not having the money for it.

Don't be afraid to ask a breeder questions about the animal - its weight, what it's currently feeding on, wobble since you're looking for a spider gene.

Ok sounds good thank you very much :). Just wondering would an orange ghost male be a good first morph that could be used for breeding later? Here's the link:

http://westcoastjungle.com/wp-conten...Male-ghost.JPG

Thank you everyone once again for all of the help. There are so many awesome morphs!

Here is my spider, I think that he is a good example of the morph

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/efd50d75.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMG_0159.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMG_0157.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HerpsForDerps

Ok sounds good thank you very much :). Just wondering would an orange ghost male be a good first morph that could be used for breeding later? Here's the link:

http://westcoastjungle.com/wp-conten...Male-ghost.JPG

Thank you everyone once again for all of the help. There are so many awesome morphs!

---

The orange ghost morph is a recessive morph. This makes it bad if you want to start breeding. Recessive genes take a lot more time to produce anything and gets really confusing.

Also, as was said before, you are better off getting a female if you are going to breed later.

Beautiful Spider you have! I'm assuming that the snakes listed in people's respective signatures are their snakes? What does the 1.0 and 0.1 mean? Are there any other differences between male and female snakes besides the size when fully matured?

I was perusing online some more and found this really striking snake.

http://www.cvexotics.com/ballpythons.html

The Spider 100% het Albino Female with Dob 8/24/11 (furthest to the right on the very bottom row). Sorry I could not find a way to post the picture directly. Since it says het Albino Female does that mean it has both the Spider and Albino traits? So there's a possibility if I ever were to breed that snake with another het Albino male that there could be the homozygous recessive Albino baby?

1.0 means male, 0.1 means female, and 0.0.1 means unsexed.

1.0 = male
0.1 = female
0.0.1 = unknown sex

so 4.5.6 would be 4 males, 5 females, & 6 snakes of unknown sex

Yes if you were to pair that Spider Het Albino with a het albino you could produce:

Genetic Wizard 3.0 calculations by
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/gfx/logo.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HerpsForDerps

Beautiful Spider you have! I'm assuming that the snakes listed in people's respective signatures are their snakes?

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Thanks, yes the snakes and other animals listed in peoples signatures are what they have in their collection

Ah that makes sense now thank you. Why is that particular snake $50 less than the male het that is directly to the left of it? Aren't females more desirable? Could it have something to do with that snake's coloration (is it undesirable in anyway)?

The snake next to it is a year older, increasing its value

The snake on the bottom right is a very good example of the morph, and it's even 100% het Albino. I would strongly consider purchasing that BP!

Oh I had overlooked the Dob!

I am really considering that snake. I am going to email the owner and ask him about its temperament, feeding patterns, weight, etc. Are there any other questions that would be pertinent to ask?

That is a good start, I would ask for current photos, and maybe even photos of the parents if he has them on hand.

Good point! I sent an email for inquiry and now it's just a waiting game I guess! I will have to get that tub fully set up in the next few days if this all pans out.

Just make sure that you follow the directions on this thread and get a good thermostat, and you will be good to go.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basics...*DUW*

Good Thermostats:

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR.../dp/B000NZZG3S

http://spyderrobotics.com/

Most definitely will do.

Thank you very much for all of your help. Is there a way to send PMs on this forum?

yes, if you click on someones username (in blue) it will pop up a box. one of the options is to send a PM.