New pickup - problem

So I picked up a clown girl (surprise), but the box had no indication of a live reptile, and when I pulled her out, I saw that she had rubbed her nose raw. Pics below..

The guy, who will remain anonymous (if you know who it is, please do not reveal his identity), said he did not see any blood on her nose when he shipped her, however he recognized that she could have rubbed her nose..

I have the option to ship her back, but the vet said it should heal up fine. I thought the worst (mouth rot or something) but it ended up being just a rough rub. What would you do? I really want her.. She's perfect in every other way. She's sweet, curious, and obviously well-fed! She's in her tub right now resting from the stress of the trip + vet visit. I think I'm going to keep her... What would you do? I know a lot of you guys have kept snakes that came with mites.

Nose rub:
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...s/b31037b1.jpg

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...s/2e7c98cb.jpg

Box pics:
Bottom of box:
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...s/a0cb41eb.jpg

Top of box:
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...s/71315242.jpg

That should clear up nicely. How was she packaged inside the box? Is the seller helping cover at least part of the vet bill?

I would keep her, but I wouldn't do business with this guy again, not labeling the box correctly can be a fatal oversight...

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Originally Posted by jinx667

That should clear up nicely. How was she packaged inside the box? Is the seller helping cover at least part of the vet bill?

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She was packaged nicely inside. Insulation, heat pad, and crumpled papers. She wasn't cold and the heat pad was still warm. The fedex guy who usually drops off packages didn't know there was a reptile in there so he was just walking up to my doorstep waving his hand with the box under his arm sideways while he starts checking off the delivery.. He refused to pay for a vet bill. He suggested just shipping her straight back instead of taking it to a vet that he doesn't know.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I would keep her, but I wouldn't do business with this guy again, not labeling the box correctly can be a fatal oversight...

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I agree. Sucks that this happened but hopefully she'll overcome it easily and with minimal stress :oops:

That sucks. I would not do business with that guy again. However, if it will heal fine and you really want her, keep her and just move forward. Poor baby.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

That person you purchased from doesnt sound like someone worth doing business with again for sure. Anyone can package nicely (only half done right in this case), but not following through with ensuring health and satisfaction are guaranteed is a show of his character. As far as her rub it will heal just fine. Keep an eye on it to ensure infection or further lesions occur. Give her a little more time than normal to offer feed as well.

The seller should be ashamed !!

Keep her and don't do any business with him again.
He should of come good for the vet bill either way

The vet didn't give me any antibiotics. She said it'll be fine and heal up nicely, but the vet visit itself is like 50 bucks. I believe it has more to do with the principle of the situation than the money. I hope if I sell reptiles in the future, I'll offer better customer service... I e-mailed him about the odd look the nose had in the photos in the ad, but he didn't respond. When I asked about that, he said he DID respond, however his PC crashed or froze or something...

Keep a little Betadine on that and it should heal right up. You won't even notice it after a shed or two.

Anyone who ships a reptile in the manner in which your snake was shipped would never hear from me again. It's not that hard or that expensive to secure a proper box and label it correctly.

I hope this breeder is a member here and I hope they learn something from this thread.

I'd be pretty up set about the box and would be posting in the BOI. That's just pure irresponsible laziness and the hobby doesn't need someone opening an unmarked box to find a snake inside! The rubbing is just consequential and was no ones fault (if indeed it happened during shipping). I personally would keep her but never buy from them again.

Good thing she was cleared by a vet for any other infection, and I do think that her mouth would heal up well after a few shed too. May this be a lesson to any other breeders out there that the simplest mistakes can end up in a pretty bad and maybe even fatal situation. Good thing that's the only thing she had.

i'd keep her shes still really pretty or if you dont want her you can just send her to me :)

Will heal easily in few months and couple sheds.

I have pre-made stamps in blue and red ink that i stamp boxes of whats inside and Quantity.


For those that dont know, accepting a box thats not labeled to federal law makes you an accomplice and just as much trouble if caught

Thanks for all the comments guys. It's good to hear your opinions. Makes me feel better about the transaction.. Except for you rich.. Lol but thanks for the info :gj:

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Thanks for all the comments guys. It's good to hear your opinions. Makes me feel better about the transaction.. Except for you rich.. Lol but thanks for the info :gj:

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Were All Guilty for accepting packages not marked. But When I bought form anyone I asked if they marked the boxes. And its 50.50 and sometimes Ill refuse shipment

I would keep her. Though my question is. Was she not in a snake bag or a deli cup? I want to know how bad she got a nose rub. That would not happen if she was in a bag. Well that bad.
I will keep her just not get anything from that seller again. :/

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Originally Posted by pinkeye714

I would keep her. Though my question is. Was she not in a snake bag or a deli cup? I want to know how bad she got a nose rub. That would not happen if she was in a bag. Well that bad.
I will keep her just not get anything from that seller again. :/

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Actually she was in a snake bag. She was snuggly fit in there, and the guy said he doesn't want them to have too much wiggle room. But since it was improperly labeled, she could have been thrown around, who knows :(. I really would want to know how the heck it happened as well, but as long as it can get better with relative ease, I can put it behind me, and hopefully I'll be in a good enough mood to take pictures of her. She's such a pretty and friendly gal! 703 grams too :bow:!

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Actually she was in a snake bag. She was snuggly fit in there, and the guy said he doesn't want them to have too much wiggle room. But since it was improperly labeled, she could have been thrown around, who knows :(. I really would want to know how the heck it happened as well, but as long as it can get better with relative ease, I can put it behind me, and hopefully I'll be in a good enough mood to take pictures of her. She's such a pretty and friendly gal! 703 grams too :bow:!

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Alright. i will fly to cali to "visit my family" Then i will tell you for sure if you should keep her.
I might have to take her home with me to decide for sure though. :]

First off, I agree with everyone else and I'd keep her - she's terrific looking in every other way and this won't impact her genetics so breeding her wouldn't be an issue. She's a great pickup!! :bow:

I picked up on 2 specific things when I read this thread:

1) You mentioned her nose looked a bit funny in the pics you saw of her before you bought her. To me, this means that rub was there before she was sent out. I don't buy that his computer froze or whatever. I know that can happen, but its pretty "convenient" in this situation. Plus, as someone else said, if she was in a bag it isn't likely she'd have rubbed her nose that badly just in shipment. This happened before and it should have been disclosed to you by the seller before he sent her.

2) Are you absolutely SURE the label on the package didn't have "live harmless reptile" printed on it somewhere? When Hunter was shipped to me, that was printed in very small print on the label itself on the Ref# line right under the delivery address bar code (albeit it was labeled in bold elsewhere on the box too). But I wondered if the seller did in fact label the box as the Reference is considered adequate by FedEx. I agree that the box should have been labeled much more clearly and therefore this really doesn't matter, but I thought I'd ask anyhow.

Look at it this way, with a little TLC, you've got a great new addition and the better end of the deal. You don't ever have to deal with that seller again. Congrats on your new girl! :gj:

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Originally Posted by pinkeye714

Alright. i will fly to cali to "visit my family" Then i will tell you for sure if you should keep her.
I might have to take her home with me to decide for sure though. :]

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You may TRY to pry her from my cold dead hands!!!! :P

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

First off, I agree with everyone else and I'd keep her - she's terrific looking in every other way and this won't impact her genetics so breeding her wouldn't be an issue. She's a great pickup!! :bow:

I picked up on 2 specific things when I read this thread:

1) You mentioned her nose looked a bit funny in the pics you saw of her before you bought her. To me, this means that rub was there before she was sent out. I don't buy that his computer froze or whatever. I know that can happen, but its pretty "convenient" in this situation. Plus, as someone else said, if she was in a bag it isn't likely she'd have rubbed her nose that badly just in shipment. This happened before and it should have been disclosed to you by the seller before he sent her.

2) Are you absolutely SURE the label on the package didn't have "live harmless reptile" printed on it somewhere? When Hunter was shipped to me, that was printed in very small print on the label itself on the Ref# line right under the delivery address bar code (albeit it was labeled in bold elsewhere on the box too). But I wondered if the seller did in fact label the box as the Reference is considered adequate by FedEx. I agree that the box should have been labeled much more clearly and therefore this really doesn't matter, but I thought I'd ask anyhow.

Look at it this way, with a little TLC, you've got a great new addition and the better end of the deal. You don't ever have to deal with that seller again. Congrats on your new girl! :gj:

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Hope this doesn't give away his identity, but here's a pic from the ad:
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...s/c9747fce.jpg

You can clearly see some odd coloration around the same area.. So you don't need to open another tab/window, here's the today shot:
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...s/2e7c98cb.jpg

2) I just went through and thuroughly double-checked every side if the box, including the label. Couldn't find anything. ALSO, I questioned him about it when I called, and he said that he's fedex certified and the people who he ships with know that he ships reptiles.... I let him know that it is important to include it, but there were quite a few things that required more discussion, like the well-being of the snake. Oh, and I'm sure my fedex guy who delivered the other snakes that were shipped to me wouldn't have carried it like it was just an ipod in a box.. It didn't even require my signature!

Thank you for the perspective. I just have to e-mail him and let him know I'm going to keep her. I'll consider it a rescue :gj:

When I get home, I'll upload the unboxing video and post it here. I've taken one for every reptile I got, but I never needed it until this morning.

I wouldnt do business with him again. If it wasnt labeled as an animal imagine how the package was handled by everyone throughout the shipping process...
Eventually someday ill be breeding my snakes. As a seller i would never have that kind of customer service. The customer is always right. The fact that he refused to cover even part of the vet bill, on what is a very expensive snake you bought from him, is ridiculous imo. Its like buying a car and having it arrive at the dealership with a dent in it. Do you think id still be driving home that car? Heck no! The same core values of good business run through all markets, no matter whats being bought and sold...

How in the world does someone ship a live animal and not have it clearly marked all over the box? You are lucky the animal is alive, I'm sure the poor thing was thrown all over the place.

Honestly, I'd take the seller up on the option to return her. I don't expect to pay good money for an animal that isn't packaged properly-for safety and legal reasons- and have that animal come in to me damaged, very possibly as a result of the packaging...and if not, as a result of the seller just happening to leave that info out prior to purchase.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I wouldnt do business with him again. If it wasnt labeled as an animal imagine how the package was handled by everyone throughout the shipping process...
Eventually someday ill be breeding my snakes. As a seller i would never have that kind of customer service. The customer is always right. The fact that he refused to cover even part of the vet bill, on what is a very expensive snake you bought from him, is ridiculous imo. Its like buying a car and having it arrive at the dealership with a dent in it. Do you think id still be driving home that car? Heck no! The same core values of good business run through all markets, no matter whats being bought and sold...

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Agreed. And not to start anything and I don't want to gossip - I understand why you don't want to reveal this guy's name, but please consider it. Not to bad-mouth him, but so others can make more informed decisions before buying from him. Not here - perhaps start a BOI either here or on fauna??

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

Agreed. And not to start anything and I don't want to gossip - I understand why you don't want to reveal this guy's name, but please consider it. Not to bad-mouth him, but so others can make more informed decisions before buying from him. Not here - perhaps start a BOI either here or on fauna??

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I'm still in the middle of my decision about that. For the time being I won't say who it is. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. In my eyes, his only "solution" was to take the snake back then re-sell it immediately to one of the 3 other guys who he told me had inquired about her availability. So really, he isn't rectifying his mistake.

Improperly labeled then shipped, and when the animal isn't 100% healthy from the tip of his heat pits to the tip of his tail, he says "If you are not happy with the animal you recieved, just put it right back in the box and ship her back.".... That pissed me off...

I believe he should have tried to do whatever he could to make me feel better about my purchase... AGREE THAT IT REQUIRES A QUALIFIED VET-CHECK, and even take some money off of the original listed price!!! It was a good deal for a healthy 700 gram clown FEMALE who just so happens to be 66% POSS HET HYPO (doubting the poss part now... gender as well for that matter...) and eating pre-killed!

I really do NOT want him to have my money, but I also don't want him to have this sweet girl anymore... I don't want her to have to endure another box with heat pad back to that state, then just forwarded on to the next guy! It's just a nose rub that will go away in time, and her eyes are dented probably because of inadequate humidity. She seems healthy outside of those areas, so I'm 99% sure I'm going to keep her, but the attitude he has when speaking to me was not what I expected to hear from someone who has supposedly been doing this for 8 years. Not very professional.

EDIT: before purchasing the snake, I did a check on him before e-mailing him. The majority of the feedback was local, but there were a few posts by people who had animals shipped to them. All good feedback.. Zero negatives. I would hate to be the first, and I especially don't want an outraged phonecall from him or his friends telling me I'm wrong or that I don't know what I'm talking about... What if he sees it, and THEN tries to rectify his mistake? I can't take it back..

Here's that unboxing video I promised. Sorry it's not as upbeat and cool as Jinx's lol. I was not a happy camper :oops::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpnzw...fdAUAAAAAAAAAA

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Originally Posted by h00blah

What if he sees it, and THEN tries to rectify his mistake? I can't take it back..

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Post an info thread on Fauna...you wouldn't necessarily be calling him a bad seller, and he'll be more than welcome to explain anything. If/when he tries to rectify his mistake, it will be noted. To be completely honest, he did offer to take the snake back and refund you...that is an offer to rectify the situation. You declined(or are planning to) the offer. The packaging is the glaring error, IMO, not declining to help you out with the vet bill.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Here's that unboxing video I promised. Sorry it's not as upbeat and cool as Jinx's lol. I was not a happy camper :oops::

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I would not have been stoked for a bleeding snake either. You do need to release who it is because with an attitude like that I would not want to do business with them. Even if they "fix" it at this point, it would only be from pressure, not from wanting to do the right thing.

If I got a call that a snake I shipped was bleeding, I would be as much or more freaked out than the buyer.

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Originally Posted by jrvfilms

Thats such a sweet snake!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge8ueGgKfkU

This is a video I made with my friend about ball pythons and other snakes. we have a little series! Be sure to Like it, Comment it, SUBSCRIBE! Thanks guys! keep checking back for more new snakes we get every month from diff shows in PA!

twitter.com/jrvfilms



Congratulations on the nice babies. They are beautiful.

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I'd be hard pressed to come up with a more inappropriate thread in which to advertise yourself.

I am not sure advertising your youtube channel is really on point here.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

I'd be hard pressed to come up with a more inappropriate thread in which to advertise yourself.

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Seems to be spamming a few threads.


Anyway, keep us updated on her progress. I am sure it will be a non-issue after the next shed.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Post an info thread on Fauna...you wouldn't necessarily be calling him a bad seller, and he'll be more than welcome to explain anything. If/when he tries to rectify his mistake, it will be noted. To be completely honest, he did offer to take the snake back and refund you...that is an offer to rectify the situation. You declined(or are planning to) the offer. The packaging is the glaring error, IMO, not declining to help you out with the vet bill.

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You're right. Thats the only solution he offered. However, in other stories, the breeder/shipper at least apologizes for the the recipient's bad experience, THEN they offer to refund, offer a discount, or in rare cases, they cover the vet checkup/bill. As it was stated earlier, the nose rub could have happened during the shipping process, and since I don't know exactly when it got as bad as it was when she first got here, it just frustrated me more than anything... Especially when I inquired about it (after payment - before shipment), and didn't get a reply.. Supposedly because of technical difficulties... Lots of shady things going on here. I suppose the next step would be to warn others of his shipping method, and hopefully he'll start labeling properly.... Still doesn't fix the snakes nose >_>...


PS: :rofl: @ the spammer

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Originally Posted by h00blah

You're right. Thats the only solution he offered. However, in other stories, the breeder/shipper at least apologizes for the the recipient's bad experience, THEN they offer to refund, offer a discount, or in rare cases, they cover the vet checkup/bill. As it was stated earlier, the nose rub could have happened during the shipping process, and since I don't know exactly when it got as bad as it was when she first got here, it just frustrated me more than anything... Especially when I inquired about it (after payment - before shipment), and didn't get a reply.. Supposedly because of technical difficulties... Lots of shady things going on here. I suppose the next step would be to warn others of his shipping method, and hopefully he'll start labeling properly.... Still doesn't fix the snakes nose >_>...


PS: :rofl: @ the spammer

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I understand where you're coming from...I'd be upset too if I received a red nosed snake in an unlabeled box. Whether he avoided answering your question purposely can't be determined, though I think many people would be riding the same train of thought. My point is, he did offer an appropriate resolution...if not the one you wanted. Return shipping should have been included in that offer...I don't know if it was or not. Some sellers would go beyond what you were offered by this particular person, some won't.

If he was going to offer to pay to ship it back, he could have just as easily returned a portion of the vet visit money. "Just send it back" is pretty flippant, and does not really address the problem and gives the impression that he does not care. With that said, this is one side of the story. That is why it should be brought up on the BOI to allow both sides to explain themselves.

Id say never buy from this guy again. And post this on the Inquiries/Feedback section. Not so much about the snake.. Nose rubs happen.. But yes he should have told you also. The way this animal was shipped. They make boxes just for shipping live reptiles. I have seen way to many box opening videos on youtube. Where people were opening boxes just like this..

A few years ago. Ship your repitles was shut down for a while. You could still buy supplies, but could not ship through them. All because people were shipping animals they were not supposed to. Also animals were getting loose during transport, because they were not in the proper box, and not properly secured.

There is a reason you have to get certified to ship reptiles. To insure the shipping company that these animals will not be getting loose. And for the safety of the animals. They do crush test on the boxes, for the safety of the reptile, and to make sure if the box takes a little damage. The reptile will not get out. They also test your bags, and how the bags are secured. They have their own instructions on how to do that. Its not hard to get certified to ship.. So why not do it? This breeder is, or isnt certified doesnt really matter. The fact that the snake was not packaged right is a problem. If enough people keep doing this. If enough reptiles get loose, or killed. They will take away our ability to ship reptiles. Then what?

Im sorry but its people shipping like this, that will be the end of us being able to ship reptiles.
The breeder made enough money off of this snake alone, that they could have bought the proper boxes. And ship the animal the proper way. With the low price of shipping supplies. There is no reason to ship an animal in that type of box.

If a breeder cant afford to properly ship an animal. Chances are, they cant afford to properly take care of them either.

aww she's so cute :3, I would say it would clear up quickly, keep her! (don't do business with that person again)

Congratz on here, she is sexy, as far as the seller, if i was in that situation, i would just keep her providing nothing else is wrong, and avoid business with him from then on. my opinion is that rub was there before she was shipped out, and it should have been made clear to you prior to payment of the condition of the animal. and i also feel that box was a bit to snug for that girl, which probably helped in ripping the scab off her nose rub. But with all the other factors, it not even being marked perishable, this side up, live animal, etc. it would just make my choice hard to keep the animal, but in the end i know she would be alright. Good Luck on what you do.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

he says "If you are not happy with the animal you recieved, just put it right back in the box and ship her back.".... That pissed me off.

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You should put something on fauna about him. I can't stand the attitude. He's basically saying he doesn't care about not being up front with you and he could care less how he ships the animals because someone else will buy it anyway. It just sucks because your in a tough spot. You don't want him to go on doing business this way, and have your money. But being the snake lover you are you don't want to put the animal through the stress of travel again. Personally I would keep the snake, but let people know your experience with him so they don't have the same happen to them.

After reading through this thread again i still cant really see it from the sellers point of view that hes doing what he should. Still seems like a bad person to do business with. If you dont wanna release his name, at least PM the name please so i can avoid him. I promise i wont release it anywhere, i just wanna avoid having the same poor experience. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Rob

You should put something on fauna about him. I can't stand the attitude. He's basically saying he doesn't care about not being up front with you and he could care less how he ships the animals because someone else will buy it anyway. It just sucks because your in a tough spot. You don't want him to go on doing business this way, and have your money. But being the snake lover you are you don't want to put the animal through the stress of travel again. Personally I would keep the snake, but let people know your experience with him so they don't have the same happen to them.

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I totally agree. I would not worry about what he (or his friends) thinks of you if you give him some public negative feedback. Right is right and wrong is wrong. It is not that hard to properly ship a snake. The fact that he didn't do it was just laziness and poor service and people have the right to know. I'd go so far as to say it's your responsibility to inform (I do not intend that to be mean - I totally sympathize with your position).

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

After reading through this thread again i still cant really see it from the sellers point of view that hes doing what he should. Still seems like a bad person to do business with. If you dont wanna release his name, at least PM the name please so i can avoid him. I promise i wont release it anywhere, i just wanna avoid having the same poor experience. Thanks!

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Please do so for me too if you decide not to go public! I want to avoid him too and promise to keep it private if that is your wish!

Also, I sincerely hope you keep that snake. I know you don't want the guy to have your money, and I don't blame you, but that really is a sweet looking snake and it looks like she has a great temperament and she's fat and big. Despite needing a little TLC, she appears to be a great pickup. Even if she doesn't prove to be het ghost, the clown gene is amazing in and of itself and you can do some really cool combos with her. And sometimes we have to consider the well-being of the animal more than our own feelings. She's better off with you!! :gj:

I actually think I have a tiny bit of proof that he INTENTIONALLY didn't reply to my e-mail..

I sent an e-mail on Sunday (4/15) at 11:05 AM asking a shipping question. I had received no response for a few hours, so at 2:46 PM (same day), I sent him this: "Hello. While looking at the photo of the clown closely, I noticed some odd coloration on her nose. Just wondering what that is? Remnants of a nostril infection? Nose rubs? Just curious if she's 100% healthy? Thanks"

The last e-mail I received from him came at 11:07 PM (same day), and it was a reply to the e-mail just before the one regarding a possible nose rub. At that point, I should have replied AGAIN, to inquire about it one more time which ended up being a very bad mistake..

To summarize this thread for everyone, I'm going to create a post in the fauna BOI stating the improper shipping, and only mention the nose rub. While I agree that he intentionally avoided the question, I have no solid proof. I'll post a link to it here when I create it at work.

I AM glad that he was kind enough to let me hold her for a couple days to make up my mind (even though I had to convince him to). I'm going to keep her and avoid doing business with Rich Kensinger from Colorodo.

Thanks for all the help and support guys :D:gj::gj:

Please do a BOI thread. I'd like to hear his explaination for shipping the way he did.

After reading this whole thread I'm surprised someone didn't mention the so called issue with his computer freezing earlier. If something actually happened to his computer that could have affected delivery of the email he sent, then he should have checked to make sure that it went through.

I'm also having a hard time believing the nose rub occurred during shipping. Looking at the pics it could have been a previous issue that wasn't completely healed, or previously irritated enough to where shipment added more stress causing her to rub it even more.

One thing I noticed, well two, first you should (if you haven't already) invest in a temp gun and use it when opening boxes from now on. The heating pad in that video was sitting right on top of her with only a little cloth in between them. So her trying to get a way from the heat if and when it got too warm would be an issue.

I have never and hope I never do receive a package with the heat bag sitting directly on the animal. There's always insulation between them, crumbled, shredded news paper or something other than that flimsy piece of cloth, paper or what ever it was.

If the temps were any warmer out side you could have been posting a completely different thread.

With that said,.. I'll be looking for the fauna boi thread for his response. Please post a link when it's up.

Got it,.. just checked hope you don't mind.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=312779

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Originally Posted by Slim

Please do a BOI thread. I'd like to hear his explaination for shipping the way he did.

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Here's the thread:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=312779

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Here's the thread:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=312779

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Looking at it now, thank you!

The only thing I see is you have her listed 66% het Clown, that may cause confusion by the folks who take everything VERY literally over there.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

The only thing I see is you have her listed 66% het Clown, that may cause confusion by the folks who take everything VERY literally over there.

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This is a good point. You know how they roll on that forum...