This "Police Brutality" garbage hacks me off.

Coroner: Ohio Man's Death Is a Homicide

By JOHN NOLAN, Associated Press Writer

CINCINNATI - The coroner said Wednesday that a struggle with police was the primary cause in the death of a 350-pound black man whose scuffle with officers outside a fast-food restaurant has prompted outcry among black leaders.

Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said Nathaniel Jones, 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol in his blood.

Parrott said the death will be ruled a homicide, but added that such a ruling "should not be interpreted as implying inappropriate behavior or the use of excessive force by police." Homicide rulings are issued when someone dies at the hands of another person.

Jones' death certificate will list a cause of death as an irregular heart beat because of a stress reaction from the violent struggle, Parrott said.

Activists say Jones' death was another example of brutality by Cincinnati police against blacks in a city that was rocked by race riots two years ago.

The coroner's ruling came shortly after lawyers for Jones' family called for an independent investigation, claiming the coroner has mishandled past cases.

"It's hard for me to believe anything that comes out of the coroner's office," attorney Kenneth Lawson said at a news conference.

Relatives said Jones was a loving person who never hurt anyone.

"They talk about Skip like he was an animal," said his grandmother, Bessie Jones. "He wasn't. Skipper was just a good old, fat jolly fella. He wasn't violent."

"Everyone he met, that he touched, loved him," said his aunt, Diane Payton. "He was never mean."

The struggle occurred early Sunday after an employee at a White Castle called 911 to report that a man had passed out on the lawn outside. Emergency personnel arrived and reported that the man was awake and "becoming a nuisance," according to police radio transmissions.

The first two arriving officers were shown on a police video striking Jones after he ignored orders to "stay back," took a swing at an officer and put his arm around one's neck.

The officers later knocked Jones to the ground and fell on him, and jabbed or clubbed him with nightsticks at least a dozen times over several minutes until he was handcuffed. They kept yelling, "Put your hands behind your back!" as they struggled to handcuff him.

Jones' body had bruising on the lower half, but did not show signs of blows to the head or organ damage, Parrott said.

Jones was carrying cocaine and three hand-rolled cigarettes that had been dipped in methanol, an ingredient in embalming fluid that gets people high, authorities said.

Messages seeking comment on the ruling were left with the prosecutor and police chief.

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Originally Posted by RPlank

.....Activists say Jones' death was another example of brutality by Cincinnati police against blacks in a city that was rocked by race riots two years ago......

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Give me a break! The guy is on videotape fighting with two cops, and I will bet big bucks that he was either diabetic, or high. Either condition can make anyone violent. It is too bad the guy died, but when a persons physical condition (or lack thereof) possibly combined with drug usage turns them into a problem, the cops get called to deal with it. If they have to use force to arrest the guy, so be it. I despise the people who stage the public outcry against police brutality in these situations. Barring other evidence that the cops acted improperly, they should be cleared, and the morons crying foul should shut the .... up.

Sorry about the rant. This is a sore subject with me. I am a little bit biased!

I dont blame you. The whole deal is bull... and the idea that making the police look bad is not cool either. You are right, many factors can be played in as to why this guy died. But police brutality- yeah right!

Im there with ya Randy. Though some times it look's like a person is being beat, usually you only see it after it has started so you never know what the person being subdued had done prior to the filming of it. Now a person on PCP is a very dangerous person. They can fight like hell and not even feel what others are doing to him. As can the Cocaine. Dont know what methanol does so cant comment on that. I hate to say it, but it is the race card issue. If the man who died would have done what he was TOLD.....This would not have happend im sure. Though there are some police that abuse there power, the biggest majority are within thier right's when something like this happens. I've seen many of these cases and 99 out of a 100 are justifiable. Hope I didnt say anything stupid. This issue really pisses me off. Like Randy said....The morons crying foul need to shut the F up.

Randy is a police officer for those who do not know. And I'm not suprised at all the the activists got all uptight about it. Evidence proves the cops innocent. If it were real police brutality, it happens, it'd be a whole nother issue. They're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

In my opinion the cops were a little rough. I do not believe that is the only reason the guy died, but I do think they took it too far. The constant hitting with the baton looked a little exaggerated. To me it looks like the cops let this suspect get the best of them and made them loose thier tempers. Again, I am not calling the cops killers, but they are in a position were you can not let your temper go, they know this when they join the force, and should always remember this. Again I would not fire the cops, but i do believe anger management classes and a suspension should be in order. This guy was big, but not an iminent threat to the cops involved. Sorry if my view differs, and i do not want anyone to take this personal, but would enjoy discussing it.
Jason

If you take a 350lb man that is high on cocaine and PCP.....You might as well be wrestling with Godzilla. PCP almost can make a person Invinsible. I saw a tape where a man was on PCP and was shot 15 times before he finally fell to the ground, and this was only due to that he lost too much blood for his body to continue.

I've heard that too. It makes them immune to pain and really gets them going.

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He said the autopsy found Jones suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol in his blood. Jones' body had bruising on the lower half, but did not show signs of blows to the head or organ damage, he said.

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http://www.comcast.net/News/DOMESTIC//XML/1110_AP_Online_Regional___National__US_/eac819c3-e172-43ab-8671-a1562155aa3a.html
Newest info I found on the case.......Bruising on lower half of body indicates strikes to legs with batons. There are pressure points in the thighs and lower legs that are targets for proper baton strikes. If they were beating him just to beat him, they wouldn't have videotaped it, and he would've been bruised on the upper body, as well. I haven't seen the tape yet.
Anyone have a link to the videotape?

These situations are always hard.
I haven't seen the video tape, and honestly I've learned that you never really get both full sides of the story through one or two media sources. It's hard to form an opinion
I do think it is hard for an officer or any one for that matter to hold their tempers in hard situations. I am not an officer or a paramedic because I would let every drunk driver die on scene. (Yes I have strong emotion toward said subject), But that is also why I am not in those occupations.
these situations are always hard, ecspecially when your on the "outside" of the situation.
I do hope everything works out for both the case and the deceased family.
Rusty

When I was in the Coast Guard on Lake Erie (stationed in Detroit) we had to go thru ALOT of training reguarding that exact situation. And those officers did exactly what we were taught... The SICK thing is his family will prolly win some law suit, or jus tdrag it out enough that those poor officers are forced to resign.

Probably two wonderful officers that just had a tough case to deal with. But I applaud them on the job they did. Anyone who'se seen the video knows they were tellin him to put his hands behind his back, and other commands which he obvioulsy wasn't doing. And the fact that all the bruises were on his torso/back shows that they weren't wreckless with their batons. If they were wreckless he'd have bruises on his head and neck areas as well.

-Chris

And reguarding the PCP/Cocaine side of it. Every word of that is totally true. One time my crew was on L/E patrols on the Detroit River (l/E = Law Enforcement.. i.e. boardings) and we stopped a boat of "partiers"... well most were just drunk but we found traces of coke on the deck of the boat so we started field testing everyone, and when we got to the guy who was doin it (approx 19 years old, 5'6" 170lbs) he picked myself and one of my shipmates up and thru us overboard. The other 2 members of my crew promptly introduced him to the deck of his boat and detained him till we were able to swim around to the aft of our boat and climb back onboard.

Tempers are hard to control when ur in those situations, but you're trained to deal with it. And trained on how to think. Here's my thinking on it, please let me know if u disagree as I find this an interesting topic. My thinking is I'm a Law Enforcement Officer for my city/state/country and you are Harry Homeowner who is out living ur day to day life. Now when I meet Bob Cardriver and he's got a tail light out... well Im gonna pull him over. And as I walk up to his car several things could happen. A) he cooperates fully and I issue him a warning/citation and send him on his way... b) He's drunk in which case I have to worry about gettin hiim out of his vehicle (keep in mind oncoming cars don't always see/react well around blinking lights) and doing a field test and then arrest him. or c) He pulls a knife/gun on me as I walk up to his window for nothing more than a taillight.

When ur put in that sort of situation you have to rememeber that the city/municipity/state/country u work for has given you power above and beyond that of the rest of its citizens so that you and the rest of your force can enforce the laws of the people. And when you cross paths with someone who is on drugs most of what you're taught goes out the window. You're taught how to defend urself, and take down the suspect via pressure points, and other places on the body to cause the suspect to collapse... but when ur suspect is on drugs its VERY VERY hard to subdue a suspect. I've seen USCG footage of a suspect who was higher than a kite off of PCP get shot in the chest 6 times with a 9mm and he kept walking unaffected... just to give u guys an idea of how strong people appear to be on drugs.

Wow.. I can't believe i just said all that lol.. this comin from the guy who was arrested three times out in AZ for doing Wheelies on my motorcycle lol :) I love cops... just not the ones in Phoenix LOL

-Chris

I don't know if the particular case that your talking about was police brutality or not bet here's my own my personal experiences. First of I have used almost any drug that you can think of except heroin. I know first hand that PCP and crystal make you think that your invincible/on top of the world. I'm not a big guy at all, I'm only 5'4" 140lbs and yet it took six cops to take me down once. I understand that cops are risking their on lives performing their jobs but I also that police brutality does exist. I had a friend that was gang related, he did some time then he changed his life around. One day he was pumping gas, all of a sudden a bunch of cop cars surrounded him. The cops told him to put his hands up, to lay in face down in the floor. He reached for his prescription glasses that where in his sweats so they wouldn't break and they shot him to death. Later on they admitted that they were looking for another guy that fitted his description but how if the guy they were looking for was black and my friend was mexican? I could give you more examples but it won't solve anything. As for me, well I haven't used drugs nor drank in almost 3 years. I'm young but I started early.

That's CA police for ya....

Well I wouldnt say that is a typicall CA police, CA is not the only place this happens........One of the worst thing's to do is to reach into your pocket for any reason when you have a gun, or gun's drawn on you. Best thing to do is to just do as you are told. Not saying the police are right, Just DO as you are told and worry about the other stuff later.

I have had my fair share of dealing's with the police and I have learned just to do what they say and keep your mouth shut, and if you are in the right, it will all come out at the end.