Dehtdrated Water Monitor

Just received a 24" water monitor from an online shop(if name is needed i will Pm it) Anyway it is quite lively but seems dehydrated to me, the pelvic bone is showing some. Just wondering what I can do to make him acclimate better and to get his health up. he's in a large glass enclosure for now with a wooden lid as well as has the light hanging low near a perch to get him a place to bask that is up at around 110 degrees, the humidity is at 80%. I've offered it dubia roaches and egg. It has taken a few roaches but not many.
Also this is a short term set up as i have a room I'm going to convert to two enclosures one for this Monitor and one for my Ornate monitor

[IMG]http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af276/simpleyork
/P1000016.jpg[/IMG]

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000016.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000027.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000086.jpg

here's my ornate monitor for comparison(had him for 6 months now) he's grows about an inch every 10 days
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000024.jpg

soak him daily and make sure he has a large water bowl and get some food in him cause if you see bones you know he is skinny

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Originally Posted by Elite Morphs

soak him daily and make sure he has a large water bowl and get some food in him cause if you see bones you know he is skinny

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he soaks most of the day and doesn't want to eat any- what do i do? I've covered his cage so he can't see any one for more privacy.

Have you had a fecal done to see if he has parasites? How long has it been since you received him? Shipped in, right?

Up the basking to 130° and the humidity is maybe a touch high. Not bad tho, maybe 5-10%. Try feeding it mice or rats. At 24" it should be on pup rats or adult mice (just be careful of the mice, adults are nasty). If you just got him he is gonna need a little time to acclimate. Make sure he has a nice hide and don't drop his temps overnight. Good luck with him and shoot some more pics :D

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i have tried a rat pup but it hasn't taken it. I received the monitor last friday shipped in from Florida, they say it was a farmed animal, so parasites are inevitable. hasn't pooped any sept in his water dish so a fecal would be hard at this time. I'll get more pics in the this weekend since i work during the week.

I'll update with any news

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

i have tried a rat pup but it hasn't taken it. I received the monitor last friday shipped in from Florida, they say it was a farmed animal, so parasites are inevitable. hasn't pooped any sept in his water dish so a fecal would be hard at this time. I'll get more pics in the this weekend since i work during the week.

I'll update with any news

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Mine will only go in their water. Its just how they role. Try mice, mine tend to prefer mice, something about the smell. Maybe try a live mouse Hopper or even just a fuzzy to start so it doesn't seem like too much of a meal to the monitor. After he starts eating more regular you can bump up size and go to rats. Make sure you bump the basking spot up, that should help a little. Almost all waters come from farms, they aren't the easiest animal to breed so it is usually easier to buy them from a farm. Contact the people you got him from, they should have treated him for parasites if importing them. Waters are notorious for getting RI especially being shipped. Make sure his temp is up and watch for any bubbles or mucas in the nostrils or mouth. Some waters take a while to get used to their new environments. Try not to handle him unless absolutely necessary. Give him a Luke warm (room temp or slightly above) soak once a week. Bath tub is the best place to do this, and make sure he has logs or something in there to get on if he wants out. Also, don't fill the water for his soak to more than his shoulder height. If I think of anything else I will add to this. If you think of anything post it up...

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thanks for the help, i'll try what you said.

Up the temps, leave the humidity alone. Increase the enclosure size ASAP; your new acquisition (which I highly doubt was "farmed"), has probably gone at least a month in cramped quarters surrounded by hundreds of other salvators waiting exportation. These exporters care nothing about the lizards.

Don't handle. Don't take out for a soak. Provide a proper water container.

If it does eat and you freak it out, it will regurge. Provide a proper environment and leave it be.

Chris

thanks
I'll be working on the room this weekend.

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

thanks
I'll be working on the room this weekend.

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A couple of things...

Please elaborate on the word "room"?? are you implying you want to give this animal a room in your house??

Secondly, You do realize that virtually all monitor species are burrowing animals and need deep dirt to dig tunnels in.

taking it out then plopping it in a tub is stressing this lizard out more than it already is.

See if you can get a veterinarian to sell you some Normosol R electrolyte and a needle. Then what you want to do is take a small (thawed out F/T) mouse and inject it with the electrolyte solution until it swells up like a ball, then offer it either in a dish or from a set of tongs.

Basking temperatures, 130+ degrees, ambient temps @ 85 or so.

As the name "Water Monitor" implies, you should have a large water source, such as a cat litter box filled with water inside the enclosure that your lizard can get into at it's own leisure.


This has to go.. It simply will not do, and the animal's condition will continue to deteriorate rapidly until you get rid of the fish tank.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000086.jpg

Thank you.

Where the table in this picture is will be his new home after i get it built in this week end, though i might just turn the whole room into his cage, What do you think, would it be too big then for his size? I'll be adding a lot of dirt in there since it is in the basement on cement a plastic liner is going to be installed as well.
Any other ideas would be great

I'll be getting plenty of logs and bark hides for him to feel more secure. I also have a 30 gallon tub for water for him.
This will be Fridays all day project

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000114.jpg


Here he is in his water bowl
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000117.jpg


added a few hides
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000115.jpg

Any good ideas on how to heat a room 5' 8" x 8' x 7' ? or at least half that? should i just use a 250 watt bulb or similar? would a smaller one work. I could also run the electric dryer's vent through the room before in goes outside. Let me know what you all think!

Read this...

http://www.proexotics.com/care_water.html

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A few things to consider, measure the floor temperature (please) and you will find basement slabs unacceptably cold for a monitor.

This can be remedied with radiant floor heat, Not sure if you are up to it or not, but it requires that you lay down pex tubing and pump hot water through it to keep your dirt warm.

Otherwise that floor will suck away the heat and give you very cold dirt.

http://www.design2share.com/storage/...=1251813015485

http://www.garageforums.com/wp-conte...diant-heat.jpg

http://www.woodfloorsonline.com/tech...diant_heat.gif

Now there is another option, electric floor heat....

http://www.northerntool.com/images/p...s/25189_lg.jpg

All options are expensive, but anyone who tells you that keeping monitors properly is cheap, was lying.

As for using heat lights, it is always recommended to use a few low wattage (45-50 watt) bulbs, a 250 watt bulb will dry out your enclosure and blister your lizard.

You should also realize how destructive monitors are. They will take down drywall like tissue paper. If you have bare concrete block, maybe.

The moisture will also be destructive. Instead of a 250 watt light, you'll probably want banks of lightbulbs.

The ProExotics webpage has a ton of great info.

thanks on the info on bulbs. As for the floor If i raised it some with foam and wood would that be better or should I just build a large wooden encloser upstairs instead? I just want to do this right since the first try wasn't too good.
what would you recommend for the 24" monitor?

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Originally Posted by simpleyork

thanks on the info on bulbs. As for the floor If i raised it some with foam and wood would that be better or should I just build a large wooden encloser upstairs instead? I just want to do this right since the first try wasn't too good.
what would you recommend for the 24" monitor?

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You do realize it will not stay 24" for very long right?

Water monitors get big, really really big.

The room idea is great, but you have to do quite a bit of sealing and insulating.

I took my Pro Exotics PE-2 temp gun downstairs and checked, the floor is 51.8 degrees, much too cold for a varanid of any species.

yes i understand that he will not stay small if i can get his health up.
I'll be sticking with the basement then, it it right next to the wash room and where i keep my roach colonies. I'll raise the floor up some and board the walls, i'll get pictures up as the progress goes this weekend.




I also need to start looking at a place to keep my Ornate Monitor, he's been growing very quickly since i got him he'll be getting to the two feet mark very soon.

thanks for your help, much better then the people who sold me the monitor, after letting them know the monitor was not in the condition they said it was and asking what could be done they quickly told me that i wasn't keeping it right (the whole two days i had it) and didn't offer any help in getting it setup better. live and learn won't buy from them again.

could it be that it is just the stored fat is gone in the tail area and not a dehydration issue, the front of him looks much better then in the tail area? He sits in his water bowl most of the time, sorry if the question seems dumb

not dumb, a skinny tail base is a sign of malnutrition, the lizard has been living off stored fat.

http://www.anapsid.org/heplipidosis.html

So since this is the case, i need to get his monitor to eat to fix this issue then?

If you get his enclosure, temps and all right, he should eat like a horse. If the set up isn't right, the monitor won't eat.

Esp if it's not hot enough, they need some heat for digesting. It's good that you're willing to do a ton of work, since that's what's required with the monitors.

Check out this thread on my local Herp society forums - Rich (Brand X Rodents) built an AMAZING Nile Monitor enclosure, and if you message him (he is also on here) he may be able to give you some pointers on enclosure plans. His divides in the middle, so that he can expand it at any time.. and you can see in the photos how large it already is. That doberman is not small, and the aquarium they are filling is 75 gallons.

Keep in mind that your water can get even larger than a nile, and the enclosure Rich has built wont necessarily hold an adult nile or water for it's entire life.

The soonest i can get him into a herp vet is next week if after i get this cage built and can't get him to
eat like a horse to bulk up, that will be the next step.
the temps are good now in his small tank. I think he ate a few small gold fish from his bowl , it was too messy this morning to tell but i didn't see any when changing the water. so at least he's getting something down.
I'll get a small hopper mouse tomorrow to see if he'll take something a bit bigger since he hasn't been to interested in some baby rats that my breeders just had.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

If you get his enclosure, temps and all right, he should eat like a horse. If the set up isn't right, the monitor won't eat.

Esp if it's not hot enough, they need some heat for digesting. It's good that you're willing to do a ton of work, since that's what's required with the monitors.

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^^^^^^^^^this post right here^^^^^^ A++

come to think of it i do have a large deep tool box for my truck i don't use, i could build a wooden cage around like they do with the horse troughs,to keep upstairs untill i can get the room better well thought out that would give me a few months before he out grows that. it's about 2 feet deep so plenty of room for dirt to dig in
what do you think?

i'll get exact measurements after work tonight
but it would be around 2 and a half feet wide 4 and a half long then at least two feet taller then the box itself

it would be a start, but please don't procrastinate the new enclosure.

I definately won't procrastinate, just want it planned well. I'll be busy this weekend.

he took a week old rat today! good sign. took measurements on that tool box this morning
5'8" x 3'6" x 1'10" then I'll add a 1'9" more to it in hight

Great husbandry will work wonders for a troubled Water (or any under kept lizard). You do have to watch for respiratory issues, blowing bubbles and clicking, that would be a negative sign.

But great temps, hydration, secure hides, followed by a strong diet, and you could be on the right track.

However, eggs, goldfish and frozen walrus pops do not a good diet make.

Feeder insects, rodents. Done. That is all you need. Feeding a monitor that already has likely parasite issues more prey items that have all new parasite issues (goldfish) is running down the wrong road.

Don't force feed or assist feed, that in not needed.

Check out the monitor info at our site ProExotics.com, in the FAQ and caresheet section. Some things I need to update, like soaking (not needed given a good setup, unless you are trying to get pretty pictures done), but temps and diet info is all applicable to your animal.

Once you get some food in, poop will come out, then you need to get a fecal done at the vet, and treat parasites accordingly.

Cage wise, I would work around the cattle troughs for now, build from there, that is your best bet.

Best of luck.

Thanks for posting that Robyn, I wanted to make the statement about not needing a soak, but I didn't want to be viewed as going against your established care sheet.

hey thanks. i'll not feed them any goldfish anymore. just put the rat in this morning before heading out to do some stuff in town when i came back he had eaten it and was basking under the lamp, so the mice i bought will have to wait, he does have a supply of dubia roaches and has eaten a few of them as well. Bought some wood today so tomorrow i'll get his new encloser put together and pictures put up for critque

Robyn@SYR I printed up that care sheet you had on it and am going to do all I can to follow it to the "T"
thanks

Best of luck with your Water. They can be a bit tricky, but once you get the basics down, they thrive. Search out Jim Heck on Facebook, he has a PE Water, a BIG one, and he would probably chat you up about adult caging.

Here is a pic, not sure who all can see it:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater

And Wayne, I have needed to update that caresheet for years. Still do : )

Basics are still fine, but I did want to clarify the soaking. It CAN be helpful, especially for dehydrated lizards, but it is not necessary for a proper kept lizard in a non-desiccating cage (screen top style). It IS super helpful in prepping an animal for pics though. Our babies were soaked every week or two, and always looked like a million bucks : )

Anatopism- I like that enclosure, I was thinking for my Ornate to do a large L-shaped cage in the front room though I may have to bribe the wife by remodeling the kitchen for her.
I'll get this cage done for the Water Monitor to give me a little time to get the final cages figured out how I want them.

today's work

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000126.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000127.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000128.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000129.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000130.jpg

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000131.jpg


I'll be adding one more light to help with the ambient temps

He's been moving around checking out everything so much more lively

I hate to ask the obvious question, but you do have a closed lid, right?

(I only ask because my neighbors were astounded that their adult ball python climbed out of a OPEN aquarium)

I think it looks like a bang up job and I bet he's going to be digging like crazy and throwing dirt in all directions in no time. Don't be surprised if he just starts hiding a lot too.

Retes style stack hides would make him happy too!

yup there is a lid to it

that is the coolest "quickie" enclosure I have ever seen.

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000137.jpg
the lid

basking temp

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...k/P1000136.jpg

ate a pre killed mouse today

hasn't eaten anything since the mouse 6 days ago. the basking temps are 147 on the high end and ambient in the 80's.Humidity is about 80 depending on the time of day. He won't open his eyes anymore, and vet really doesn't know what to do, says it's too far gone. what to do?

I know i won't deal with the people I bought him from again they have been of know help.

On the up side my Ornate has been doing really great, started eating adult mice this week, and hates my guts so I leave him be.

If he had organ damage when you got him (from improper temps, humidity, diet, etc) then he may well be beyond saving.

It depends on how experienced your vet is with monitor lizards, whether you decide it's time to euthanize, to try something else, or ?

i'm going see if he improves over this weekend while i'm off work then go from there.

I should have asked more question before ordering him, though they may not have been too honest just the same.

I have located me a baby sav that will be a new addition to the family very healthy, lively fellow at that, a guy bought him yesterday from a local shop then decided he wanted leopard geckos instead.

I've had some in the past so excited to get one again now that my wife and I have a perminant home of our own.

I've got a copy of infernalis' website so should be good to go.

gonna go pick him up tomorrow

I know all too well about organ damage.

When Chomper fell ill, we tried, I took him to two different vets and spent hundreds of dollars trying, but unfortunately, once his kidneys died, it was just a matter of time before his blood became so polluted that he finally gave up.

The problem is with these things, is Monitors are such rugged animals that they can run around for weeks with failed organs.

yah, i'm going to definately have a hard time deciding on the verdict, he was in such poor condition when I got him 2 weeks ago and the online store denied him looking sickly in any of the photos I sent to them. He had already used his fat reserve before I ever received him, he was just about skin and bones.