very dissapointed

im very dissapointed i have a pastel enchi female that is from a enchi female to a lemon pastel male all the babys came out either pastel or enchi but i have one female that came out enchi pastel i have sent pictures in every detail of the sibling mom and dad and the pastel enchi to ralph davis and two other professional breeders so i wouldnt miss label her since she is for sale and all of them comfirmed that she has the right pattern color and belly for it her head is lighter than normal enchis being they said it could be from being pastel in their i had a buyer for her for her and he looked on line and found pics of normal pastels that said looked exactly like her he said he has been doing this for a long time and doesent think she is one so he retracted his offer my thing is if she is what the profecionals think she is enchi pastel and cause their are doubts from potential buyers if i sell her as a pastel and she indeed proves out pastel enchi then ive taken a huge loss i just need some help figuring this out

Pictures and punctuation would help.

how do i put pics up

Load them on photobucket and copy the IMG link. Then paste that here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Pictures and punctuation would help.

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x2. But I'd rather take a risk of taking a "huge loss" and selling something as Pastel possible Enchi, then mistakenly take advantage of someone by selling a Pastel Enchi that won't prove out.

wow my ears are smoking... i had to read that like 4 times and mentually put in punctuation before i could understand all that... but yes without pics we cannot begin to help with this one

http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...s/SANY1090.jpghttp://ihttp://i1057.photobucket.com...s/SANY1089.jpg

When you mouse over the image in photobucket, it will give you options. Click in the box (don't try to highlight) the one that says IMG Code beside it. Then paste that into your post.

its not allowing me to copy thttp://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t394/exoticomorphs/th_SANY1089.jpghe image or paste it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slithering house

its not allowing me to copy thttp://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t394/exoticomorphs/th_SANY1089.jpghe image or paste it

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http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...h_SANY1089.jpg

It's kind of a small picture, I'm not sure anybody could determine her morph from it.

i will try to make it bigger on the camera then try to re paste it

The thing of it is, I don't care how long you have been doing ball pythons, not every person is going to be able to identify every snake.

Otherwise, why would we have breeders posting pictures of their hatchlings and asking, "What on earth is this? I know what it should be, but it doesn't look like it's supposed to."

I would much rather hang onto a potential double morph and give it time to grow up and get better looking, than to sell it cheap because someone had a doubt and beat my head against a wall for it later.

Sometimes people make no sense anyway. Last season I had a clutch of Vanillas. Out of a clutch of 5 - two Vanilla boys, two normal boys and a girl. Now these snakes had been specifically bred to each other in hopes of improving the offspring, and it did. I took them to a show, and sold both vanillas in no time flat. Then a couple of guys come over and look at my normal female. I was asking $25 for her. They told me the snake was not a normal, and I should be asking more for it. I assured them it was a normal, and was priced correctly. They told me they wanted to buy it, but that is was not a normal and I wasn't charging enough. I told them again, yes it was a normal. The mom was extra light, the dad bright and clean, and this baby was simply proof of selective breeding. They continued to argue with me it was not a normal and I was not asking enough for it.

Now think that over for a minute. If you spotted a baby you were certain was a morph labeled as a normal and carrying a normal price tag, would you argue with the seller they had mislabeled it ? Questioning is one thing. "Wow, that looks just like a [blank] to me, are you sure it's a normal?" But would you argue for 20 minutes that the breeder did not know what they were selling, and even more, would you refuse to pay the asking price for a snake because you thought it should be higher ? Most people wouldn't go through that much trouble, but they did. I eventually got so tired of it, I told them "Buy her for $25 or move on."

So if I were you, I would simply hold on to that baby, it will only get more valuable as it grows, regardless of if it is a single morph or double.

Gale

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angllady2

Sometimes people make no sense anyway. Last season I had a clutch of Vanillas. Out of a clutch of 5 - two Vanilla boys, two normal boys and a girl. Now these snakes had been specifically bred to each other in hopes of improving the offspring, and it did. I took them to a show, and sold both vanillas in no time flat. Then a couple of guys come over and look at my normal female. I was asking $25 for her. They told me the snake was not a normal, and I should be asking more for it. I assured them it was a normal, and was priced correctly. They told me they wanted to buy it, but that is was not a normal and I wasn't charging enough. I told them again, yes it was a normal. The mom was extra light, the dad bright and clean, and this baby was simply proof of selective breeding. They continued to argue with me it was not a normal and I was not asking enough for it.

Now think that over for a minute. If you spotted a baby you were certain was a morph labeled as a normal and carrying a normal price tag, would you argue with the seller they had mislabeled it ? Questioning is one thing. "Wow, that looks just like a [blank] to me, are you sure it's a normal?" But would you argue for 20 minutes that the breeder did not know what they were selling, and even more, would you refuse to pay the asking price for a snake because you thought it should be higher ? Most people wouldn't go through that much trouble, but they did. I eventually got so tired of it, I told them "Buy her for $25 or move on."

So if I were you, I would simply hold on to that baby, it will only get more valuable as it grows, regardless of if it is a single morph or double.

Gale

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This made me LOL! If he honestly thought is was a morph then why wouldnt he buy it lmao? oh man, some people...

To help, we need real pictures. A good pattern shot, a good head shot and heck even a belly shot.

Those are pretty much the standard views for trying to ID a morph.

Or post the pics that you sent to the breeders to look at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angllady2

The thing of it is, I don't care how long you have been doing ball pythons, not every person is going to be able to identify every snake.

Otherwise, why would we have breeders posting pictures of their hatchlings and asking, "What on earth is this? I know what it should be, but it doesn't look like it's supposed to."

I would much rather hang onto a potential double morph and give it time to grow up and get better looking, than to sell it cheap because someone had a doubt and beat my head against a wall for it later.

Sometimes people make no sense anyway. Last season I had a clutch of Vanillas. Out of a clutch of 5 - two Vanilla boys, two normal boys and a girl. Now these snakes had been specifically bred to each other in hopes of improving the offspring, and it did. I took them to a show, and sold both vanillas in no time flat. Then a couple of guys come over and look at my normal female. I was asking $25 for her. They told me the snake was not a normal, and I should be asking more for it. I assured them it was a normal, and was priced correctly. They told me they wanted to buy it, but that is was not a normal and I wasn't charging enough. I told them again, yes it was a normal. The mom was extra light, the dad bright and clean, and this baby was simply proof of selective breeding. They continued to argue with me it was not a normal and I was not asking enough for it.

Now think that over for a minute. If you spotted a baby you were certain was a morph labeled as a normal and carrying a normal price tag, would you argue with the seller they had mislabeled it ? Questioning is one thing. "Wow, that looks just like a [blank] to me, are you sure it's a normal?" But would you argue for 20 minutes that the breeder did not know what they were selling, and even more, would you refuse to pay the asking price for a snake because you thought it should be higher ? Most people wouldn't go through that much trouble, but they did. I eventually got so tired of it, I told them "Buy her for $25 or move on."

So if I were you, I would simply hold on to that baby, it will only get more valuable as it grows, regardless of if it is a single morph or double.

Gale

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I would've asked them, "How much do you think I should charge for it?" and then wrote their reply on the sale tag and said, "There...now pay me!!"

Hi,

Here are your pics;

http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...s/SANY1090.jpg

http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...s/SANY1089.jpg

Can you get us a picture of the top of its head? And a close up on the side pattern?

I'm far from good at picking out enchis but that does look like an enchi pastel to me. :oops:


dr del

That looks enchi to me to but im not an expert. If you werent giving the "experts" the best pics to look at then their guesses probably werent totally accurate.

When in doubt, KEEP HER! How can you go wrong?

Not a Pastel enchi.. sorry.. color, pattern, head all that is wrong for a pastel enchi.

Cant blame people for being cautious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptilecam

Cant blame people for being cautious.

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No not in the least. In fact I'd rather people ask and be safe than sell a snake as something it isn't.

Here's a head shot I was sent last night. We were discussing a local trade for it and was told pastel enchi on left, enchi on right:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...x/9fde5bde.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Not a Pastel enchi.. sorry.. color, pattern, head all that is wrong for a pastel enchi.

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X2

Here's a pic of the father...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/SANY0932.jpg

Mother... Not the best of photos but take notice to the markings down her back, this is not Enchi and there is no Enchi like color either. She looks like a very nice Reduced Normal to me and I'm sure better photos would prove that to be correct.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/SANY0770.jpg

I not bashing on the seller at all, just trying to put it all out on the table.

This is a photo I found by Goggling "Reduced Pastel Ball Python"

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...ern-Pastel.jpg

Very nice snake but I beleive very strongly that it is a nice Reduced Pastel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Focal X

Here's a head shot I was sent last night. We were discussing a local trade for it and was told pastel enchi on left, enchi on right:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...x/9fde5bde.jpg

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Still not an Enchi or a Pastel enchi..there is a normal and a pastel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

No not in the least. In fact I'd rather people ask and be safe than sell a snake as something it isn't.

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I was referring to the buyer but yeah I agree both sides is best to be cautious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Still not an Enchi or a Pastel enchi..there is a normal and a pastel

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Same conclusion I came to. Even found a perfect picture example of the two morphs in question from Casey Lazik: (top row, first two snakes) http://reptilia.com/index.php?option...=37&Itemid=44#

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Balls Out Morphs

X2

Here's a pic of the father...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/SANY0932.jpg

Mother... Not the best of photos but take notice to the markings down her back, this is not Enchi and there is no Enchi like color either. She looks like a very nice Reduced Normal to me and I'm sure better photos would prove that to be correct.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...a/SANY0770.jpg

I not bashing on the seller at all, just trying to put it all out on the table.

This is a photo I found by Goggling "Reduced Pastel Ball Python"

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/a...ern-Pastel.jpg

Very nice snake but I beleive very strongly that it is a nice Reduced Pastel.

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Agreed..No enchi in that mix sorry..

I almost sent payment on this girl yesterday until the seller sent me the photos of the parents. Before I received the photos I was told the father was a NERD Line Lemon Pastel and the Mother was a RDR Enchi.

No Enchi in any of those animals!

I don't see Enchi at all with any of the animals pictured.

Here is a freshly hatched Enchi for reference.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...h/P1160605.jpg

Notice the banded pattern?

Here is his brother, the Pastel Enchi. I wish he was more spread out so that you could see the pattern better on this guy...

http://www.heathersherps.com/images/...l/P1160754.JPG

More on Enchis:

http://heathersherpsblog.blogspot.co...-goodness.html

And a better photo of a Pastel Enchi:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...h/P1160875.jpg

Heather as always beautiful animals. I do have to come to the agreement though that the animal in question has no enchi. I'm not the best with enchi though but something just doesn't look right with the "pastel enchi". I'm sorry I know that's probably dissapointing. Sometimes if the experts get busy they'll just tend to glance at pictures and come to quick conclusions. Perhaps there were some mistakes made along the way.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

Ok, now I have engaged in quite the pickle. I was just emailed this pic of the mother which looks more like an enchi (head spot), but different from the mother listed above:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...x/df350652.jpg

That still doesnt quite look like an enchi

That looks like a Spotnose from the head and body pattern...

Still not an enchi.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Focal X

Ok, now I have engaged in quite the pickle. I was just emailed this pic of the mother which looks more like an enchi (head spot), but different from the mother listed above:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...x/df350652.jpg

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That's not an enchi. The head pattern is wrong, coloration is wrong, and the overall pattern = wrong.


Cool looking normal. If you thought that the pictured snake looks like an enchi, I would do some more research on enchis.

Here's a short-lived thread with some pictures of some great looking enchis:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...i-combo-thread!

Here's a thread I posted with pictures of my enchi. Notice the bronze/yellow color and the almost red blushing in the blacks. Another subtle difference is the head stripes of enchis seem to be a little bit wider than most normals. If you've ever seen a stingerbee, it can also help you look for that weird subtle neon yellow trim around the darker areas. That should be present in some enchis as well :gj:.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...enchi-pics-%29

I was being facetious in regards to the two different pictures of the mother which are not the same snake.

The coloration is one of the biggest give aways on a Enchi. Even poorly patterned ones will have the almost neon orange blushing. Also the head can be a give away as well. Also, breeding size Enchis are even more apparent.

Here is mine at about 350g

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...7/DSC01323.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...7/IMG_1026.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...7/DSC01305.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zach_24_90

wow my ears are smoking... i had to read that like 4 times and mentually put in punctuation before i could understand all that... but yes without pics we cannot begin to help with this one

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Lol.. I had to read the post out loud to myself for it to sink in. Longest sentence ive ever seen!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slithering house

im very dissapointed i have a pastel enchi female that is from a enchi female to a lemon pastel male all the babys came out either pastel or enchi but i have one female that came out enchi pastel

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If those pics are your females, you do not have any enchis, sorry.

If someone sent me two diff pics of two diff females, automatically "red flag". I dont know the situation because it is very muddled and poorly explained. Confusion + 2 different pictures of mother= no thanks, I dont want your snake.:cool:

I highly doubt that Ralph Davis and the "two other professional breeders" were contacted about this. They would be able to identify an enchi.

I'm trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, but this just sounds like an attempt to rip off another member of the site with something the OP was purposefully misrepresenting.

Faulkner, I am really confused by this post..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slithering house

im very dissapointed i have a pastel enchi female that is from a enchi female to a lemon pastel male all the babys came out either pastel or enchi but i have one female that came out enchi pastel i have sent pictures in every detail of the sibling mom and dad and the pastel enchi to ralph davis and two other professional breeders so i wouldnt miss label her since she is for sale and all of them comfirmed that she has the right pattern color and belly for it her head is lighter than normal enchis being they said it could be from being pastel in their i had a buyer for her for her and he looked on line and found pics of normal pastels that said looked exactly like her he said he has been doing this for a long time and doesent think she is one so he retracted his offer my thing is if she is what the profecionals think she is enchi pastel and cause their are doubts from potential buyers if i sell her as a pastel and she indeed proves out pastel enchi then ive taken a huge loss i just need some help figuring this out

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Focal X

Here's a head shot I was sent last night. We were discussing a local trade for it and was told pastel enchi on left, enchi on right:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...x/9fde5bde.jpg

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Then I think a 3rd person helped post pictures of the parents.. then...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Focal X

Ok, now I have engaged in quite the pickle. I was just emailed this pic of the mother which looks more like an enchi (head spot), but different from the mother listed above:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...x/df350652.jpg

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Is Focal X the same person as Slithering House, or is Focal X supposed to be the person that nearly bought the enchi-pastel that isn't really an enchi-pastel from Slithering House? Who is buying what? Who is on first? WHAT is on second? I don't have a clue at this point. I've been far too turned around by who is posting and other people adding in pictures for the OP.

Focal is Nick, who was interested in buying the animal. I believe the OP was having problems posting pictures, so he was helping out by posting what he'd been sent by her.

Yes. I was told yesterday that someone else was buying the pastel enchi and I missed the deal. The poster above was sent images of the parents from what I understand. Then I was told that buyer backed out. Last night, after this thread was posted, I was told it was available again and that the genetics of being a pastel enchi were guaranteed and verified through Ralph Davis, who supposedly puts his word on the fact that this is a pastel enchi. I thought it might be a low grade and considering the age, might have been hard to tell. I inquired today with many friends and peers and found out what you see. I was sent what appears to be a different picture of a differnt mother of this snake. I backed out. Sorry I'm on my cell and out but I can be PMed at anytime for clarifications if needed.

Btw, Focal X is in no way, shape or form affiliated in any tomfoolery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Focal X

I backed out.

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Good move there Nick...:gj:

Ok,

Since the ad, as it stands, is a little misleading I will temporarily move it until the OP has a chance to reword it and send the corrected text to a member of staff ( I won't be on tomorrow ).


dr del

unfortunatly my bf sent the wrong pictures of the mother the first pic was of an jollif line axanthic i had sold earlier the second pic that is the mom infact an enchi being i purchased with paperwork from ralf davis i am not tryng to upset the guy i was tryng to sell her to i was given info from the breeders i sent pics to of her im not labeling her as a pastel enchi now i wanted to make sure i didnt label her wrong but when you hear from 3 top breeders that she has the right pattern color and belly you tend to trust them over anyone else but like i said im tryng to produce good correctly labeled animals and now have doubts of even asking the big breeders of fear of them not taking a good look at the pics before making a decision on them so i sincerely apologize to anyone i have offended in this proccess i will be more intune to research well before labeling the animal hence the reason i asked bp.net thankyou all for your input