Starting out.

Hey, I am looking to start my own ball python collection, and I would love to breed them too, but i'm curious as to what you guys think would be a good starting project. I am considering getting either a lemon blast male and a pastel female combo in hopes of producing super blasts or super pastels, or I also really like the possibility of getting a jigsaw so for about the same price I could get a pinstripe male and a female mojave and pastel which is really only a few generations behind producing a lemon blast/super pastel/superblast.

What do you guys think would be a fun setup for a beginner and what do you think would be the funnest combos to play around with down the line?

Everything that you mentioned would be great, my only advice (since choosing what projects to work on really depends on personal taste) is to try to stick with non-recessive morphs at first. recessive morphs complicate things a lot and take twice as long to get any results.

if you want to do a recessive project go right ahead, I'm not trying to stop you just putting it out there that they are more difficult.

Yeah I really wanted to get started with albinos when I first started doing research, but it seems like it would take a long time to see any new morphs, especially if I purchase young snakes like I plan. Just to be sure pinstripe/mojave/pastels are all non recessive genes correct? Also you seem to know quite a bit so how much money do you think it would cost to feed 3 ball pythons for a year? (Frozen Thawed is the route I plan to take). Thanks!

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Just to be sure pinstripe/mojave/pastels are all non recessive genes correct?

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you are correct none of those are recessive.

Say hello to your new best friend, a site called World of Ball Pythons. it is an online database with pretty much every morph. they have a list of everything, and if you click on a morph it takes you to that morphs page. on said page you will see pictures of the morph, if it is a base morph or a designer morph (base morphs are single gene morphs like the spider or pastel. designer morphs are combinations of the base morphs like the bumble bee = spider x pastel) what type of genetics the morph is and when it was first produced.

Here is a link to the list:

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/

The same site also has a genetics calculator so you can find out what your odds are when breeding 2 BP's

*from the webpage

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Here you can select any gene for a male and "breed" it to a female to see what the outcome will be. In order to select multiple genes for a given snake, simply hold the "ctrl" key while adding more genes.In order to breed a snake to a normal Ball Python, leave one side of the wizard blank and that snake will be treated as normal.

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here is a link to the genetics calculator:

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

Thanks again, I had used the genetic wizard before but I had never seen the rest of the site. Definitely joining the many other pages I have favorited for Ball pythons.

Also I don't know if you didn't answer because you are unsure, or because you simply forgot, or maybe didn't even read this part, but out of curiosity do you know how much it would cost to feed 3 ball pythons per year with frozen/thawed?

How much it costs per year can depend on a lot of things. If you can get it from a local supplier, you'll pay less. If you have to have them shipped in, it'll usually be quite a bit more. It also depends on what sizes you're feeding, and how often. So, a lot of variables there.

Welcome, and good luck. Start small with morphs you like, and go from there. It's incredibly easy to get overwhelmed, with the number of morphs out there and the way the ball bug bites as hard as it does.

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Originally Posted by ZBP

YAlso you seem to know quite a bit so how much money do you think it would cost to feed 3 ball pythons for a year? (Frozen Thawed is the route I plan to take). Thanks!

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It depends on if you have local supplier or if you'll have to order in bulk online. If you average $1.50/rat and feed once weekly, it would be about $230 to feed all 3 for a year.

This is just an estimate, f/t rats can be a little cheaper or a lot more expensive.

Alright, thank you very much Shadera.

Edit:Thanks to you too Jabberwocky, at what size do you think it is appropriate to feed them rats?

Yes, I must have skimmed over that part:

it will vary based on a few things (Bp size, how consistent they eat, how often you feed, where you get your rodents... you get the idea)

I would say $250-$500 depending on the things listed above

I think you should just get w.e snakes appeal to you and go from there. There is no such thing as a bad combo. There is a market for everything, so what you produce, as long as they are quality, I'm sure you'll find a buyer.

If you wanna save some room and a little bit of money you could purchase multigene morphs basically getting two or three snakes in one. For example could get a spinner and cross it with a pastel or super pastel and get a lot of cool outcomes. And someone mentioned the genetic wizard at worldofballpythons.com this is a big help when you are playing around with some ideas. Just look around a bit. It really comes down to preferance. :gj:

If i were you I would put the money you want to spend on mid size probably single gene animals "depending on what you can efford." 3 years to raise them up is a long time... You can always pick up a male down the road ball pythons only get cheaper as new morphs emerge and more people are producing whats "hot" and expensive at the moment.

If youre just starting out i would get 2 females now and wait 2 years. Get a male. Wait one more year. And then your animals *should* be to breeding size. The female you get can be one or two gene, whichever you can afford or whatever you like. For the male i would definetly go with a 2 gene one. Just my 2 cents!
As far as which morphs go with whatever you like! Youll enjoy it more if youre producing morphs you like.

Just to add a little more to the last two posts. Take whatever money you planned on spending on a male and buy another female. It will take your females 2-3 years to up to breeding size. In that time your females only increase in value. Over the same 2-3 years your male will probably lose half of his value if not more. Even if you don't care about the money this allows to to not lose any money, if over the next three years, you see something new and decide to change direction in your breeding plans. If this happens you can sell the females you no longer need at a profit and buy the new females you need. Just add a male when your girls are ready. I can't tell you the money I would have saved if I had followed this plan when I was starting out.

If you like Albinos, I would pick up some codom het Albino females now (ex. Black Pastel het Albino, Spinner het Albino) and get a visual Albino male later. That puts you having cool codom Albinos first time up. Same principle applies to any other recessive project.

For example: I have Black Pewter het Hypo and Lemon Blast het Hypo girls, and a visual Hypo Mojave boy. This sets me up for a ton of possibilities and I spent way less than 2 grand on the snakes. My Pewter gal should be ready to go late this year as I purchased her as a yearling.

Also make sure you still get quality, not just any snake that carries the genes.

My advice to you would be that whatever direction you decide to go in, make sure you get your Male/Female ratio correct. Remember that you can breed 1 male to multiple females, but your female can only clutch once per season. Those male genes look cheap and appealing but save your money and get more girls.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

This sets me up for a ton of possibilities and I spent way less than 2 grand on the snakes.

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Did you steal them lol? These are my price estimates from what ive seen at shows and on KS...
Lemonblast het hypo- around $650
BP het hypo- around $650
Mojave hypo- around $700

Thats right around $2000 so how did you get them for way less? I also know for a fact every single snake you own is a superb example of the morph so im not trying to say you got crappy animals lol...

EDIT: also if you dont wanna say what you paid for them thats fine. But at least tell me where you got them from lol?

Recessive projects are great! They do not complicate anything and don’t take any more time to get combos going then co-doms…

You can’t make any Combos, co-dom or recessive without raising up some females first…

Example…

You want to make Bees?…You have to buy a Pastel female and raise her up…Then get a male Spider…

You want to make Albino combos?...Buy a Pinstripe Het Albino female raise her up…Then get a Spider Albino male…Same time line and IMO more reward at the end!

Like others have said, I suggest getting females first.
It takes them at least 2 years for a female to sexually mature.
Males can become sexually mature within a year or less.
So if you buy female hatchlings now(which are cheaper than breeding size females), you can think about the male in a years time or so.

It's always better to be female heavy than male.

And in the long run, a two gene animal is cheaper than a single gene.
A two gene animal is more expensive up front, but housing one animal compared to two will save you space, time, and energy caring for them. Plus you can get a decent verity of offspring from a double gene parent.

And if you like albinos, I suggest getting a morph het albino or a visual morph albino(such as black pastel albino or a pinstripe albino). That way you can get other morphs and albinos in a single clutch.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Did you steal them lol? These are my price estimates from what ive seen at shows and on KS...
Lemonblast het hypo- around $650
BP het hypo- around $650
Mojave hypo- around $700

Thats right around $2000 so how did you get them for way less? I also know for a fact every single snake you own is a superb example of the morph so im not trying to say you got crappy animals lol...

EDIT: also if you dont wanna say what you paid for them thats fine. But at least tell me where you got them from lol?

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I will not say what I paid exactly, but the BP het Hypo was a bit more than that because she was already a year old. The others were less. And I came in a couple hundred or so below 2K. I got the hets off of KS from folks that were cutting the size of their collections. The Hypo Mojo is from Colin Weaver.

You just have to shop around and be ready to snag a deal as soon as it shows up.