I need help with my ball python

Hi, I am new to the forums and I found this website through google search.

I am very worried about my ball python, I just can't seem to get their temperatures or vivariums right. They are either always too small or too big, I have changed his vivarium from plastic tubs to wooden to glass and back to wood.

I have no idea what the best type of vivarium is for snakes, some people say wood, some people say glass and others just keep them in plastic tubs. There is so much information out there that it's really confusing me.

Call me a bad owner, but literally I have tried and tried and it's always just seems to be one god damn problem after another. I have spent over 300euros on friggen bulbs, vivarium sizes, different food, heat mats, hides...etc

My problem is this

Recently I have moved my male 3 and a half foot ball python to his wooden vivarium. The vivarium size is 4feet long, 2feet wide and 1 foot heigh.
As a substrate I am using coconut shavings mixed with spangum moss and wood chippings. He has two hides one of the warm side and one of the cool side.

Thing is, he NEVER uses the hides. All he does is just ball up in a corner on the warm side... and the warm side is not even friggen warm. he has not eaten in about 3weeks, and I have tried various tricks to get him to eat like smearing the rat pup with rat blood, exposing the brain, different colors like brown and black, the only thing I haven't tried is live feeding but with the thawed prekilled rats he really was not interested in them. I also tried feeding him at night, leaving him alone for like an hour with it and just nothing.

I have a 100W ceramic heat emitter and it is only about 12-15inches above the floor, and yes it is guarded. The vivarium still feels cold to the touch and so does the snake and the substrate. He avoids the heat mat all together and I have touched it, it isn't really THAT hot to make him avoid it.

I am also worried about his health, I have had him for about a month and he has not shed once, whenever I handle him I feel a couple of loose scales here and there.

I really thought I had everything right but clearly there is something wrong and I have no idea what it is I am doing. Clearly I am a bad owner and I think I am going to sell him so some one who does know what the hell they are doing cause clearly I don't. No matter how much research and books I read and videos I watch, there is always something wrong. No one seems to help me what so ever and I am really stressed out to the point where I just want to destroy everything.

Below is a picture of the snake's vivarium and his enclosure how it's set up. Sorry it isn't a realistic picture of his actual viv, currently I do not have a camera but this is how it is set up.

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/o...onVivarium.png

Ok honestly you are making this far to hard on yourself.

This is the ideal set up for a ball python

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0455.jpg

Paper based substrate with 2 hides and a water bowel.

Does your heat mat have a thermostat? It may not feel all that hot to you but to your snake without a thermostat it can get hot enough to kill your snake.

Do you have any thermometers? If so what type and where are they (what type as in digital, digital with probe, or dial)

The 2 best cages for ball pythons are tubs and PVC cages. Both hold in heat and humidity really well.

Here is a thread on tubs:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basics...*DUW*

And a thread on PVC cages:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!

I wish i was at home I would take a picture of my setup. It is so basic. I have tubs from Walmart, 2 hides, heat mat, thermostat, paper towels for substrate water dish and a temp gun. This works for me. As for feeding mine are just coming of a food fast of a couple of months. I think if you can get him settled in and maybe just let him be for a while he will be fine. Good luck and dont give up.

I live in Malta.

Our economy is :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: and no one gets any PVC cages. You either have to make your own or settle for glass vivariums which are very very expensive:/

I do not have a thermostat. I have gauges for thermometers and they are the dial ones. It reads to about 70 which the color is blue/yellow. I do not think this is the ideal temp for them.

I honestly do not know what the problem is and I am sick of changing set ups for him. I tried looking online for PVC cages or a vivarium seller but you have to pick it up in person :/

I am just selling him. He's better off with some one who knows what the hell they are doing. I obviously can not take care of him as I have no idea what I am doing.

Also, he's freezing cold to the touch whenever I pick him up, even if he hangs around the warm side.
I still do not know the cause why he is not eating, it's spring time, during the day it's very warm and during the night it's a bit chilly.

Also can some one reply on why he is not using his hides?
I got a medium sized plant pot and cut it in half.

Read this caresheet: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

Also the dial thermometers aren't any good, you should get an accurite from Walmart they're usually near the paint section and only cost like $15 they measure 2 temps and humidity you have to get one with a probe Aarons pvc setup link has a picture of them.

Maybe not using the hides because they're too big? Or because the temps aren't right, thay why its important to use a digital thermometer or temp gun.

Have you checked your heat, 100w should be more than enough to warm a cage that size, I think it is broken. Just try a 40w incandescent light bulb ( red colored would be best) and cover half or a little more with plastic to help hold in humidity.

We do not have walmart in my country.
We do not have PVC cages
A thermostat costs about 34euros, which is approx 45/46dollars
Digital Thermometers is about 30euros as well, which is approx 40dollars
We do not measure in gallons or qtz so it's impossible for me to measure on how big the enclosure will be.

I have to get most of my stuff from the internet and like I said before I can not buy vivariums from the internet so I am forced to use vivariums, glass or wood.

Like I said, I am just going to sell everything and stop myself from further stressing and harming my snakes.

Maybe in the future I will try again but certainly not any time soon.

I just give up. This is supposed to be one of the "good" starter snakes and I am unable to take care any of them. I'm just not cut out for this stuff, it's too expensive and I hate using plastic tubs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChrisS

Have you checked your heat, 100w should be more than enough to warm a cage that size, I think it is broken. Just try a 40w incandescent light bulb ( red colored would be best) and cover half or a little more with plastic to help hold in humidity.

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It isn't broken, the reflector is very hot and so is the bulb. When I put my hand over it I can feel the heat coming off it. I seriously do not know what the problem is. The substrate feels cold and so does the air in the vivarium.

I read online that heat emitters are the best and if that isn't working for me than an incandescent light bulb will just be a waste of money :/

Hey Twizlerz

I really feel your pain, I had similar issues with my first ball python. Mine was also refusing his hides, refusing food and balling up in the corner of my wooden vivarium.
I also bought tons of stuff, tried different thermostats, thermometers, hides, vivariums, ... I guess you really have the same issue i had: you're doing and thinking too much! Here's what I did: buy a proper thermometer. if you're heat emitter / bulb is not broken, it MUST get warm beneath it! when you made sure that it's approx. 30 degrees celsius right under the heat source, removed everything from the vivarium, except one hide plus the water bowl. place the hide right under your heat source. Make sure that your vivarium is placed in a low traffic spot, cover the front with a blanket and leave him completely alone for 2 - 3 weeks (change the water every 3-5 days).

Hope this helps!

BTW: If you're going to buy a light bulb as heat source, make sure you don't buy one of these energy-saving-lamps! They emit way less heat then normal bulbs..

Cheers,
Michael

i agree leave him alone to explore his new cage. give him at least a few days!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cent84

Hey Twizlerz

I really feel your pain, I had similar issues with my first ball python. Mine was also refusing his hides, refusing food and balling up in the corner of my wooden vivarium.
I also bought tons of stuff, tried different thermostats, thermometers, hides, vivariums, ... I guess you really have the same issue i had: you're doing and thinking too much! Here's what I did: buy a proper thermometer. if you're heat emitter / bulb is not broken, it MUST get warm beneath it! when you made sure that it's approx. 30 degrees celsius right under the heat source, removed everything from the vivarium, except one hide plus the water bowl. place the hide right under your heat source. Make sure that your vivarium is placed in a low traffic spot, cover the front with a blanket and leave him completely alone for 2 - 3 weeks (change the water every 3-5 days).

Hope this helps!

BTW: If you're going to buy a light bulb as heat source, make sure you don't buy one of these energy-saving-lamps! They emit way less heat then normal bulbs..

Cheers,
Michael

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Leave him alone for 2-3weeks?
Excuse me but I do not mean to mock, but what is this supposed to achieve exactly?

I have been visiting family and he's been all alone in his new viv for like 3days. He is still in the same position and has not moved a muscle. I know for a fact that he is alive because I just checked right now.

I think the best solution for now is to just sell him and start all over again. This is clearly a lost case no matter what I do and really, I do not have any more money to help him anymore.

Sorry for double posting but I can not find the edit button anywhere :/

I took cent84's advice and this is what I did.

I cleaned out all of his viv and placed paper towels.
Took out all decoration apart from a hide and water bowl

Placed heat mat under the heat emitter
Placed hide on heat mat.

Put python back in his cage.
Covered up the front of the viv with a blanket.

Now I am just going to leave him alone for about 3weeks, unless a buyer is actually interested in getting him off my hands. I still don't know what's the point of this or what I am hoping to achieve.


Am I a bad keeper? :tears:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twizlerz

Sorry for double posting but I can not find the edit button anywhere :/

I took cent84's advice and this is what I did.

I cleaned out all of his viv and placed paper towels.
Took out all decoration apart from a hide and water bowl

Placed heat mat under the heat emitter
Placed hide on heat mat.

Put python back in his cage.
Covered up the front of the viv with a blanket.

Now I am just going to leave him alone for about 3weeks, unless a buyer is actually interested in getting him off my hands. I still don't know what's the point of this or what I am hoping to achieve.


Am I a bad keeper? :tears:

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I'd stick one more hide on the cool end and one in the middle of the viv, so he has defferent temp options. If you decide to keep him, order an infrared temp gun or thermometer online ASAP so you know what your temps are, and then get a thermostat if the hot spot is too hot (which I'm guessing it is, just because the heat mats usually are). You aren't a bad owner, you just need to take a deep breath and get back to the basics of what he needs. If you don't know your temps, you can't get them right.

Oh, and I'd offer him food once a week. Three weeks is a bit extreme, especially if he's a young BP (they tend to eat more often than adults).

Sounds good except for the heat mat. they can get hot enough to kill your BP, unless it is regulated by something you are better off without it. The heat emitter should be enough alone.

Heat mats do not change the air temperature in the tank so unless you have a thermostat or a thermometer with a probe you have no way to tell how hot it is.

Alright I will proceed with removing the heating mat.

Can anyone tell me why am I doing this? or what this process is supposed to achieve? I still don't know why I am covering him up for three weeks.


Also, I just tried feeding him again, he just completely ignored it, infact I think he was scared of it. I tried to shove it in his face to get him to attack it, but he just ran away *sigh*

I hate this.

Covering him up will help make him feel safe. I would only do it for a week, but it doesn't hurt to do it longer. basically you are making his entire cage a hide.

Getting everything right and getting a BP to eat can be a nightmare, but once you have everything set up things run much smoother.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twizlerz

Alright I will proceed with removing the heating mat.

Can anyone tell me why am I doing this? or what this process is supposed to achieve? I still don't know why I am covering him up for three weeks.


Also, I just tried feeding him again, he just completely ignored it, infact I think he was scared of it. I tried to shove it in his face to get him to attack it, but he just ran away *sigh*

I hate this.

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You are taking the unregulated heat mat out so it doesn't burn your snake to death.

Smacking a stressed BP in the face with food is an almost 100% effective way to make sure they don't eat.

If this situation is causing that much stress in your life, I think a ball python may not be the optimal pet for you. It's important to recognize your limitations.

Yup I pretty much suck at taking care of my snakes. It was painfully obvious the minute I posted this.

I seriously can't wait to get rid of him and the amelanistic corn snake and give them to some one who knows what the :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: they are doing.

PLEASE check your temperatures BEFORE putting the snake back in. A (uncontrolled) 100 Watt ceramic heat emitter 15 inches above the hide will be way too hot! No snake, including cornsnakes, likes to be cooked..
My vivarium is 4x2x2 and my only heat source is a 60 Watt bulb.

Even if you're planing on replacing your python with a cornsnake, you'll need a thermometer.

I already have the corn snake. The only heat source he has is another 20W ferplast heat mat, even he avoids it even though the dial reads about 70F

I put my hand in the vivarium, the air is cold and the snake is freezing to the touch.

Look I don't really care anymore. I'm just going to give them very simple basic needs until I get rid of them, clearly I'm not meant for this crap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twizlerz

I already have the corn snake. The only heat source he has is another 20W ferplast heat mat, even he avoids it even though the dial reads about 70F

I put my hand in the vivarium, the air is cold and the snake is freezing to the touch.

Look I don't really care anymore. I'm just going to give them very simple basic needs until I get rid of them, clearly I'm not meant for this crap.

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Why should he be attracted by a 70F "hotspot"? You need to provide ~88F.. Whats the temperature directly under the heat emitter?

I think you should care, this animal is going to get sick or even die if you don't fix the temperatures right away.

Okay I have done a check with a dial on both sides of the viv.

The hot side reads 90F (directly under heat emitter)
The cool side reads 70F

are these temperatures good for a ball python ??

I guess it's true, I was making it too hard for myself.
I am still confused on why he won't use his hides though or why he won't eat. I'm growing worried, I hate starving animals :/

70 is low for the cool side temperature 78-82 would be better but as long as he has a 90 degree hot side you should be ok.

Temperatures rule all in the snake world. BP's won't eat if they don't have the proper temperatures. BP's can go literally months with out eating so your snake isn't starving yet.

Not using the hides could be a symptom of temperatures, or a few other things.

how big are the hides in relation to he BP?

You want them to feel snug in them

like so:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/21819934.jpg

What can I do to raise the temperatures on the cool side?
I think the vivarium is a little too big for my ball python.

Right now I am using plant pots as hides (which I cut in half) but they are not very stable as they are plastic. He should be able to fit in snuggly but I think it represents too much of a half log hide and I think he feels exposed :/

it's opening is 8inches in diameter and it's about 7 and a half inches deep.

I am thinking of transferring him back to his old tub again until I can get a thermostat.
My digital Thermometers/hygrometers should be here soon, I ordered them about 2days ago.

Any good affordable brands for thermostats?
Habistat is a little expensive for my tastes but I know it's the best brand there is.

The easiest way to bump up the cool side temperature is with a low wattage heat bulb

a 50 watt infrared bulb would work nicely.

You said that your cage is 4x2x1 correct? That is the exact same size cage I use so you should be ok.

Your hides sound like they are a little big, but should work for now.

Some good advice here. I would like to add that this type of set up usually runs low on humidity. I like to run 60 to 70% humidity in the cage and 70% or higher in the hides (one cool hide, one warm hide). Some good materials to increase humidity are: Unglazed pottery, tree bark (like the product Reptibark), paper towels, and sponges. I'll use anything from a light, cool mist from a spray bottle to soaking material with hot water, depending on how much I need to increase humidity. Good luck!

I know this is hard for you. And not having all the things we in America take for granted only makes it harder.

Right now, you really are stressing yourself out and being way too hard on yourself. You don't want to know how awful a keeper I was when I got started. I shudder to think of it now. I don't know how I didn't kill that poor snake.

One step at a time is the way to go. I know you have already devoted a lot of time and money, and like I was then, you have had it. But, if you make up your mind to see this through, you can be a successful ball python owner.

First thing is the temps. Like it or not, you need a good thermometer to measure them, and a good thermostat to regulate them. Do be aware that what feels warm to you is not a good method to use, because your body temperature is about 98. Even in your hands it is about 95, and that is excessively warm for a ball. Once you get the temperatures stabilized, then you can focus on hides. Depending on the snake, sometimes three or four hides are not a bad idea.

Once the temps and hides are good, then you can move on to feeding. By the time you get the temperatures and hides right, chances are he will be more willing to eat. Can you do live or only f/t ? If live is an option, that might help. The reason you would cover the entire viv is to help him de-stress and relax a little. You can do it for a few days to a week, or longer if he needs it. Just peek in at him once a day and leave him alone unless he needs water.

I sincerely wish you the best, I hope you will give keeping this ball another try.

Gale

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angllady2

I know this is hard for you. And not having all the things we in America take for granted only makes it harder.

Right now, you really are stressing yourself out and being way too hard on yourself. You don't want to know how awful a keeper I was when I got started. I shudder to think of it now. I don't know how I didn't kill that poor snake.

One step at a time is the way to go. I know you have already devoted a lot of time and money, and like I was then, you have had it. But, if you make up your mind to see this through, you can be a successful ball python owner.

First thing is the temps. Like it or not, you need a good thermometer to measure them, and a good thermostat to regulate them. Do be aware that what feels warm to you is not a good method to use, because your body temperature is about 98. Even in your hands it is about 95, and that is excessively warm for a ball. Once you get the temperatures stabilized, then you can focus on hides. Depending on the snake, sometimes three or four hides are not a bad idea.

Once the temps and hides are good, then you can move on to feeding. By the time you get the temperatures and hides right, chances are he will be more willing to eat. Can you do live or only f/t ? If live is an option, that might help. The reason you would cover the entire viv is to help him de-stress and relax a little. You can do it for a few days to a week, or longer if he needs it. Just peek in at him once a day and leave him alone unless he needs water.

I sincerely wish you the best, I hope you will give keeping this ball another try.

Gale

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For now I am going to transfer him back to his tub and leave him alone for a few weeks. I still need to waterproof varnish his vivarium anyway. It's about 10am here and I am going to the petshop to pick up a live mouse see whether or not he is interested in it or not. The last time I fed him was a live mouse so I am hoping he will eat this one as well. If he does, I'll keep him on live mice.


Thank you guys for the advice and help :) I really appreciate it. I apologize for the swearing and my bad temper but you can imagine how stressful this all is for me. Snakes are so fragile :/

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that I just bought two live mice and as soon as I placed them in his cage, he instant went for it and killed it.

It seems like my ball python only takes live food

I am a little relieved now that I know my snake is eating ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twizlerz

What can I do to raise the temperatures on the cool side?
I think the vivarium is a little too big for my ball python.

Right now I am using plant pots as hides (which I cut in half) but they are not very stable as they are plastic. He should be able to fit in snuggly but I think it represents too much of a half log hide and I think he feels exposed :/

it's opening is 8inches in diameter and it's about 7 and a half inches deep.

I am thinking of transferring him back to his old tub again until I can get a thermostat.
My digital Thermometers/hygrometers should be here soon, I ordered them about 2days ago.

Any good affordable brands for thermostats?
Habistat is a little expensive for my tastes but I know it's the best brand there is.

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I had issues with raising the cold side in the glass tank I was keeping my first BP in, and I had just spent all this money on a rack that hadnt come yet.. My solution: plastic wrap and a towel (away from any heat source). Its temporary, but it raised his temp about 10 degrees.. anyway just a thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twizlerz

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know that I just bought two live mice and as soon as I placed them in his cage, he instant went for it and killed it.

It seems like my ball python only takes live food

I am a little relieved now that I know my snake is eating ^^

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YAY!!! It's the small victories. :gj: Once he's eating regularly and you have your temps stable, you can try switching him back to F/T, if you want. One reason BPs won't go for F/T sometimes is if they aren't warm enough to target a heat signature (I heat mine for ~15 seconds with a hairdryer once they're fully thawed).

I heat mine in boiling water, to the point it's bubbling.
I had some f/t rats have their tail snap off because of the amount of heat, so if that doesn't trigger a heat signature I honestly don't know what will lol

I guess my python just prefers the "game" of hunting a mouse down.
Was fun watching that mouse being scared :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:less as it's being hunted lol

Just make sure that you don't heat them up so much that they start to cook, that will cause issues. The body temperature of a live rat is about 100 degrees so that is your target temperature.

I am monitoring his temperature everyday with a dial thermometer, it's not the "best" but it will give me some what of a reading, it's better than nothing right?

Yes, espicially if you aren't using the heat pad. The thermometer should be able to read the temperature from the heat emitter easily.