Evil baby ball python?

Okay so I did lose my older normal ball python an did end up finding him in the fridge (for those of you who were wondering about my other post). Well over the past few days I also ordered a new baby mojave ball python who is VERY pretty. But evil. When I first got my normal (Booboo, don't laugh) he/she came from petco and didn't look too good so I was like aww I'll save it. And I did and Boo is very sweet and never bites or tries to strike even when she (I think it's a she) was a baby. Well this new one (I haven't named it) is wayyyy opposite. It's an '11 and still very small. He came out of the bag from the breeder striking. After a couple days he's warmed up and I can hold him and he's twitchy but if I set him on the floor and then try to pick him up he's all bite. I get that he's scared but he bites at everything that moves and idk if he'll come out of it. Are all babies like this and my Boo was just special? I'd rather have a snake thats scared and balls up then one that immediately strikes. Also- side note on the 'evil' part - he sticks half his body out of his hide and in strike mode he just stares at me. In my other post I said I'm temporarily sleeping on the floor well I woke up in the middle of the night and there he was like that. He does it in the day too.

A lot of younger bps are snappy yes, nothing out of the norm. With age and handling he will be tame as can be.
( there is the outside chance it could remain that way. But chances are slim with bps)

There is a great Youtube video about taming babies like yours. Google is your friend :) Good luck, and many who are snappy like that re also Great feeders :)
*Fila*

I agree with the previous posts - all baby balls are different. I've had many That are just as defensive and prone to Strike as my BRB's but often times they're ferocious feeders as the last person said. I currently have a YB, spider and super Mojave that are just crazy! As soon as I open the cage to clean, they'll come striking out of their hide, tag me a couple times and then retreat in that half in/half out S pattern you mentioned. It's nothing to worry about and it's actually kind of cute. They usually always tame down with age and out of my collection, there's only two adult balls that never did and they arent even that bad - just a little cage defensive.
Usually once they're out, they settle down but what you mentioned about if you leave them be when they're out and then go to handle or approach them and they become defensive again - well that's completely normal as well.
Be confident and If you think you're going to jerk back if you get bitten then wear gloves or use a snake hook. Jerking away when they bite can hurt the snake, especially if it's young so keep that in mind. Handle regularly but don't overhandle.
All the best!!

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Originally Posted by Nuttybuttercup

Okay so I did lose my older normal ball python an did end up finding him in the fridge (for those of you who were wondering about my other post). Well over the past few days I also ordered a new baby mojave ball python who is VERY pretty. But evil. When I first got my normal (Booboo, don't laugh) he/she came from petco and didn't look too good so I was like aww I'll save it. And I did and Boo is very sweet and never bites or tries to strike even when she (I think it's a she) was a baby. Well this new one (I haven't named it) is wayyyy opposite. It's an '11 and still very small. He came out of the bag from the breeder striking. After a couple days he's warmed up and I can hold him and he's twitchy but if I set him on the floor and then try to pick him up he's all bite. I get that he's scared but he bites at everything that moves and idk if he'll come out of it. Are all babies like this and my Boo was just special? I'd rather have a snake thats scared and balls up then one that immediately strikes. Also- side note on the 'evil' part - he sticks half his body out of his hide and in strike mode he just stares at me. In my other post I said I'm temporarily sleeping on the floor well I woke up in the middle of the night and there he was like that. He does it in the day too.

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Hey,

Type on youtube ' JKR Pro Tips - Aggressive hatchlings '. Justin shows a technique that seems rather good to me, Give it a shot it could help.

B.B

Watch the whole video i you want or just skip the part with the crazy deserts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DQs...e_gdata_player

Baby Balls can be very sketchy and prone to defensive strikes. Usually once you get them up out of their tubs they chill out. Over time they will start to relax and tolerate handling much better.

Keep in mind that just because your Mojo may be 9th generation captive bred, he doesn't know that...all he knows is that he's small and near the bottom of the food chain right now.

Personally, I've only ever known one BP that stayed that nippy into adulthood, and I'm pretty sure that particular snake was possessed by something unholy :D

Give it more time to settle in. It's a running joke that all the baby ball pythons from my house hatch out mean as heck, and stay that way for the first few weeks, but after a month or so of consistent feeding they mellow way out. This is also the case for most "aggressive" baby normals we get in at the store as well. They may be mean at first but once they're set up at home, in their own cage, in their own hiding spots, and they've had the chance to settle in and calm down...their initial bitey-ness goes away and never comes back.

I'd say let it alone, don't try to handle it, and let it get used to its new surroundings. Keep in mind, most breeders set them up in tubs, and rarely interact with them except to clean them or feed them. It'd be strange to go from that to a home where the person is actually interacting with them!

Just give it time. :)

-Jen

Did you wait a week before you started handeling? Your new BP might just be stressed out from the trip and if you didn't give Him a chance to settle in before you started messing with him.

99% of the time BP's will settle down but you have to give them the chance to. After your BP eats a few meals then you start of handle him again.

Having only 2 bp's

I noticed my (Pet Store) purchase to be very friendly

My Pro Bread Lesser was very very shy, Never struck nor hissed but is almost at the same handling level as my Normal !

awwww, he will calm down after he settles in. Jackson was the same way, evil but now I can hold him and i'm not afraid.

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Originally Posted by snakemomma77

awwww, he will calm down after he settles in. Jackson was the same way, evil but now I can hold him and i'm not afraid.

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That is the other thing, If you are afraid he will know !!!

I am not an expert, But Domination is not a way to train, consistency is !

When you train a dog do you do it by dominance ?? or by consistency ??

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Watch the whole video i you want or just skip the part with the crazy deserts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DQs...e_gdata_player

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This one is a very good video. I just wish it would work with my 3 foot boa. whom I have allowed to settle in but has never calmed down. I can handle her but no one else unless I no they are experienced I will allow because after a few minutes of hold time she will start to freak out again and will bite. I just continue to hold with a firm grip until she is calm again then I let her go back in her tub. I may post a video of me handling her and getting her out of her cage.

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Originally Posted by ExotixTowing

I am not an expert, But Domination is not a way to train, consistency is !

When you train a dog do you do it by dominance ?? or by consistency ??

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Ball Pythons aren't even close to same cognitive level as dogs. It's an apple and oranges comparison.

What you see in that video isn't domination.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Ball Pythons aren't even close to same cognitive level as dogs. It's an apple and oranges comparison.

What you see in that video isn't domination.

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It's the way he explains it.. "Domination"

it's a term I don't agree with.. He aggressively handled the snake not dominantly handled

if put the other way it sounds better ;)

Lolllll at those baby desert balls in that video. The video actually really helped though. I tried out the dominance thing and cupped him in my hands completely. After a couple times of that he was calmer I guess and I let him crawl around in my hands. He even let me touch his head. I put him back in his enclosure and went out for a couple hours and when I came back I went to get him out of his hide box and instead of striking he just balled up. I got him out easy and after holding him a bit he let me touch his head without doing the dominance thing again (haha it's like a trust test). Anyways he WAS just chilling on my wrist while I wrote this (on my itouch which he struck at last night when i was using it) but tried to slither off and freaked out so I cupped him again. I hope this lasts :).

Also as a side note as some people said to let them sit in their enclosures for a week w/ no touch I disagree with. I'm no expert but I don't think you should unsocialize them for so long. I think you should introduce yourself at least everyday when you first get them so they get to know you. Just seems like common sense.

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Originally Posted by Nuttybuttercup

Also as a side note as some people said to let them sit in their enclosures for a week w/ no touch I disagree with. I'm no expert but I don't think you should unsocialize them for so long. I think you should introduce yourself at least everyday when you first get them so they get to know you. Just seems like common sense.

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This isn't the case, they are solitary creatures and many (but not all) will have feeding issues if you don't let them settle in. As was stated previously in this thread balls that come from breeders have been in a tub with little to no interaction, and they don't have any issues warming up to their new owners... in fact most people would say that they have a better disposition. I rarely handle every one of my snakes every week and none of them have any "unsocialization" issues. They prefer to be on their own and will tolerate it when I handle them.

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Originally Posted by Nuttybuttercup

Also as a side note as some people said to let them sit in their enclosures for a week w/ no touch I disagree with. I'm no expert but I don't think you should unsocialize them for so long. I think you should introduce yourself at least everyday when you first get them so they get to know you. Just seems like common sense.

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I haven`t had my guys out for a week, aside from feeding... they were both fine when I took them out, While nobody is an expert on this subject you should always give your snake ample time to adjust. My normal was used to being handled (By Me) at the pet store, so he had a shorter set in time, my lesser went a week and a bit before being handles, and they now get 10 minutes when I have time, but working 12 hour shifts leave little to no time for 7 days !!

I am sure with my normal, he could be taken out of his tank now after eating 8 hours ago and be fine...

Although I attribute this to being fed in an external tank, I wouldn`t do this

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Originally Posted by ExotixTowing

It's the way he explains it.. "Domination"

it's a term I don't agree with.. He aggressively handled the snake not dominantly handled

if put the other way it sounds better ;)

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Domination was the term he used, yes, but he used it incorrectly. He didn 't dominate so much as modify behavior. What he did was take the snake from one mode, and put it in another. He, unlike so many, understands that snakes do not think at a higher level. They exist in modes...Fight mode, flight mode, hunting mode, feeding mode, breeding mode, sleeping mode, tolerating handling mode, etc.

He introduced a stimuli to change the snakes mode. No different than when you present a prey item to your snake. You introduce a rat to put the snake in feeding mode.

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Originally Posted by Nuttybuttercup

Also as a side note as some people said to let them sit in their enclosures for a week w/ no touch I disagree with. I'm no expert but I don't think you should unsocialize them for so long. I think you should introduce yourself at least everyday when you first get them so they get to know you. Just seems like common sense.

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This is a case of your inexperience coming through. You are not socializing your snake no matter how much you handle it. They are not like dogs. They have brains the size of a black eyed pea. They do not think at higer levels, and do not socialize. They tolerate handling, some more than others. They get used to handling, some more than others, but they do not socialize. They do not seek out our presence.

You are asking for a stressed out snake with feeding issues. I'm starting to understand why it was so freaked out in the first place.

Well say I left mine in its box for a week after it tagged me when I unboxed him. I think that would leave a very negative impression in his mind of me. He will then think of his new box as his old one and expect to never be held. And associate any opening of the tank as feeding (i feed mine in seperate). I know people infer that snakes are stupid and have no real recollection of things but I think they are intelligent creatures and remember an have some feeling of enjoyment. My other eagerly likes to get out of her enclosure and explore and be handled. She also immediately goes into feed mode when set in the feeding box even w/o a mouse in sight yet. I wouldnt call her dumb or solitary. I'm sure many ball owner would like to believe their pets enjoy them, as that is the point of having a pet. I hope my new ball can be the same as my other. And as for all this it's just my personal opinion. No need to hate if you disagree, just state your own if you'd like. I forgot to add thanks so much for all of the advice

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Originally Posted by Nuttybuttercup

Well say I left mine in its box for a week after it tagged me when I unboxed him. I think that would leave a very negative impression in his mind of me. He will then think of his new box as his old one and expect to never be held. And associate any opening of the tank as feeding (i feed mine in seperate). I know people infer that snakes are stupid and have no real recollection of things but I think they are intelligent creatures and remember an have some feeling of enjoyment. My other eagerly likes to get out of her enclosure and explore and be handled. She also immediately goes into feed mode when set in the feeding box even w/o a mouse in sight yet. I wouldnt call her dumb or solitary. I'm sure many ball owner would like to believe their pets enjoy them, as that is the point of having a pet. I hope my new ball can be the same as my other. And as for all this it's just my personal opinion. No need to hate if you disagree, just state your own if you'd like. I forgot to add thanks so much for all of the advice

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Good luck with that. Please let me know how it works out for you.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Baby Balls can be very sketchy and prone to defensive strikes. Usually once you get them up out of their tubs they chill out. Over time they will start to relax and tolerate handling much better.

Keep in mind that just because your Mojo may be 9th generation captive bred, he doesn't know that...all he knows is that he's small and near the bottom of the food chain right now.

Personally, I've only ever known one BP that stayed that nippy into adulthood, and I'm pretty sure that particular snake was possessed by something unholy :D

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I think I have her, she is in the 3rd tub up....lol :D. Most will mellow with age and handling. We have six. Two, total puppy dogs. One male, one female. One iffy male, one bipolar male, one she devil female, and one new female, leaning towards another puppy dog. They all have their own tempermants.

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Originally Posted by Nuttybuttercup

Well say I left mine in its box for a week after it tagged me when I unboxed him. I think that would leave a very negative impression in his mind of me. He will then think of his new box as his old one and expect to never be held. And associate any opening of the tank as feeding (i feed mine in seperate). I know people infer that snakes are stupid and have no real recollection of things but I think they are intelligent creatures and remember an have some feeling of enjoyment. My other eagerly likes to get out of her enclosure and explore and be handled. She also immediately goes into feed mode when set in the feeding box even w/o a mouse in sight yet. I wouldnt call her dumb or solitary. I'm sure many ball owner would like to believe their pets enjoy them, as that is the point of having a pet. I hope my new ball can be the same as my other. And as for all this it's just my personal opinion. No need to hate if you disagree, just state your own if you'd like. I forgot to add thanks so much for all of the advice

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Just curious - how do you know your snake enjoys the interaction? Did it tell you?

The others are not saying that snakes are not intelligent; we are all just trying to explain that snakes, in particular ball pythons, perceive things differently than you seem to understand them.

You are assuming your ball python is sitting there thinking about you. How does your ball python know that it should be thinking about you in the first place? For all it knows, you were a one time deal, and the next time a hand reaches in it could be anybody. What's to say a ball python even thinks that a hand is ever going to reach in to a cage again?

How do you even know your ball python is having thoughts in the same way that we have thoughts? What if a ball python is just a bundle of habitualized behaviors that initiate from instinct? How do you study that, how do you provide concrete, indisputable evidence that yes, this snake is thinking, and it is thinking you are terrible right now but maybe if you held it more it might change its mind?

We don't know, and we can't know, until we discover an effective way to if not communicate with, at least understand the reptile brain in a more advanced way.

And until then, the advice to stop messing with your snake so much, it's probably just stressed out, is likely the best advice. :)

Best of luck to you!

-Jen

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

This isn't the case, they are solitary creatures and many (but not all) will have feeding issues if you don't let them settle in. As was stated previously in this thread balls that come from breeders have been in a tub with little to no interaction, and they don't have any issues warming up to their new owners... in fact most people would say that they have a better disposition. I rarely handle every one of my snakes every week and none of them have any "unsocialization" issues. They prefer to be on their own and will tolerate it when I handle them.

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The two we have ordered online from breeders, are the two that seem to be the most well adjusted. One was from a small breeder, one from a huge breeder. The ones we got from Craigslist, and local herp store, are the ones with more "issues".

Pretzel was a baby when I got her and had tendencies to be quite aggressive. She eventually got used to (not too) regular handling and used to me (I think).

Just before Xmas she used to do that thing with sticking her body out of her hide in strike position, and it worried me to start off with. She struck out when I'd stick my hand in there, but as it turns out the food she was on was slightly too small and since being up a food size she's been great :)

I'd love to think Pretzel and Pringle love me and know me, but it's really just wishful thinking. They're not dogs. I might talk to them, tickle their chins and watch films with them but...they really don't care what I did all day haha :P They aren't stupid but they also don't come out of their hide with the look of "mummy mummy you're home!" :)

I agree with you Cherry, i dont expect my balls to act like dogs and be veryyyy affectionate and i dont expect them to think about me all day. Lol. I think they do have the capacity of of having feelings and learning though. When humans are babies - same as puppies or any other young animal - you have instincts and you have what you are taught. The snake has the instinct to be fearful of people and it will be unless you can teach it/prove it that you are not harmful. Sooner the better. But yea i also do think that my older ball enjoys being handled, not "tolerates" it. Words are not the only way to express feelings, so my snake didnt "tell" me anything. The same way you can tell if a dog or cat likes being pet or played with you can tell if the snake is rejecting your touch. Besides, its cooped up in a box all day, anyone/thing would want to be able to stretch out and move once in a while.

Update on the new one- he hasn't struck out at all since :)

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Originally Posted by Nuttybuttercup

I agree with you Cherry, i dont expect my balls to act like dogs and be veryyyy affectionate and i dont expect them to think about me all day. Lol. I think they do have the capacity of of having feelings and learning though. When humans are babies - same as puppies or any other young animal - you have instincts and you have what you are taught. The snake has the instinct to be fearful of people and it will be unless you can teach it/prove it that you are not harmful. Sooner the better. But yea i also do think that my older ball enjoys being handled, not "tolerates" it. Words are not the only way to express feelings, so my snake didnt "tell" me anything. The same way you can tell if a dog or cat likes being pet or played with you can tell if the snake is rejecting your touch. Besides, its cooped up in a box all day, anyone/thing would want to be able to stretch out and move once in a while.

Update on the new one- he hasn't struck out at all since :)

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Ahh well, I don't know if anybody will ever know what an animal is really thinking. You can learn what your snake does and doesn't like, depending on how long and how often you handle them I guess. When I first got Pretzel I got told she was head shy and that combined with having her recoil whenever my fingers went near her head made me cautious about that. But then with more handling and patience she lets you touch her head and tickle her chin after about five minutes. Whereas Pringle "nuzzles" and doesn't mind me touching his head at all from the get go. They both have different reactions to different actions, whether or not they like it? I dunno. I think some reactions can be confused with like, affection and/aggression. I know a couple of people who are like "Oh look shes hugging your wrist!" or "Oh my god she's trying to constrict you and eat you!" when realistically, she's probably trying to steal my body heat! It's funny to say when she's in my pocket and sticking her head in and out, it does make me laugh and say to Grant "look, she's playing hide and seek with yooooou..." :P But really, shes curling up in my warm pocket because it's warm haha :) I think she probably recognises my smell, and associates me with feeding and security but not sure what else :)