Bad Situation, Ideas Please

So I'm in this situation where I agreed to breed my female bp with a local small time breeder and also my male with his females. Well I took the two of them over to his house over a month ago. Since then my male has locked with several of his females, and his male has locked with my female. Now our relationship has somewhat soured and I'm wanting to retrieve my BP's from his house. Last week my female didn't appear gravid as another note. A mutual friend is telling me that I don't have a right to my BP's until they lay eggs since its my first season breeding despite me having the appropriate conditions and equipment. They are my BP's and as agreed I would still split the clutch even if they were at my house instead. Any suggestions or thoughts on how to handle this situation. To be honest I wish things were going well between us. Sorry for the long read too.

Is any of this in writing?

Split the clutch as agreed, but get YOUR animals back if you want them.

Sounds fubar to me. Was a contract put into place beforeyall did any thing?

Since the male is yours and he's already locked with his females, he may allow you to just switch back. But you'll be out any eggs his female may lay.

Nothing in writing as it was done as mutual friends. Over the past two weeks he doesn't return calls or texts unless our mutual friend initiates something. I know he's thrown my male to at least five of his females as well. Who's to say he will even admit to what was laid if mine stay there. I regret not doing a contract, and I'm kicking myself in the butt for it too. Who's to say he will even disclose any clutches even being laid from my male pairings. How would I ever know since it's in his house. I'm all for being honest and splitting the clutch but it's too shady for my taste.

Just go get your snakes and chalk any loss up to a learning experience. As discussed here before, breeding loans seem to bring out the worst in people. That's my opinion.


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I appreciate all the comments everyone and I surely have learned a lesson.

I would have definately put everything in writing before hand. So now I would get my snakes back, and chalk it up to a loss. You probably never will know what he winds up getting out of it. If your female isn't gravid, that's probably why he needed your male. Maybe if it isn't too late and if your male hasnt been spread too thin, why not try your own two? Sorry about your situation, that sucks.

That is a good learning experience there.
Just pair yours and do your own thing, it would be nice to hook up with someone to make some cool combos but it is cooler if you make them yourself.;)
We all would like the jump ahead but I have seem too many stories like this where greed seems to take over. I have set up future trades with a bunch of my locals but we are all also working on different morph projects too.
Good luck on getting your animals back.:cool:

There are several threads here on breeding loans and some people swear by them - not me. They are one of the most frequent transaction for problems, because they happen over a long period of time and people's memory of the original agreement gets fuzzy after a while.

I know it has been said many times in this thread, but to minimize the damage, breeding loans need to have very detailed contracts covering every contingency. For example, if one of the snakes get sick, who pays the vet bills? If a loaned snake dies, is there compensation for the loss? If a loaned snake produces something really odd, who gets it? If the person who has possession of the snakes moves, how involved is the loaner in making sure the snakes are transferred properly or are even transferred to a new location at all? If the loanee moves, who pays shipping for the snakes to be returned. How do you split the clutches? The list goes on and on and that is the reason that I don't do them. It is very difficult to account for every contingency.

If I were in your shoes, I'd just get my snakes back. Once that is done, I'd remind the other party that you are owed snakes if they are produced and leave it at that. I would not expect to get anything out of the deal. Chalk it up as a very hard learning experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don

There are several threads here on breeding loans and some people swear by them - not me. They are one of the most frequent transaction for problems, because they happen over a long period of time and people's memory of the original agreement gets fuzzy after a while.

I know it has been said many times in this thread, but to minimize the damage, breeding loans need to have very detailed contracts covering every contingency. For example, if one of the snakes get sick, who pays the vet bills? If a loaned snake dies, is there compensation for the loss? If a loaned snake produces something really odd, who gets it? If the person who has possession of the snakes moves, how involved is the loaner in making sure the snakes are transferred properly or are even transferred to a new location at all? If the loanee moves, who pays shipping for the snakes to be returned. How do you split the clutches? The list goes on and on and that is the reason that I don't do them. It is very difficult to account for every contingency.

If I were in your shoes, I'd just get my snakes back. Once that is done, I'd remind the other party that you are owed snakes if they are produced and leave it at that. I would not expect to get anything out of the deal. Chalk it up as a very hard learning experience.

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Could not have said it any better myself. +1 for that.

+2 most definately


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Sometimes people have good intentions and want to do things the right way, but when the "party" gets underway the greed could set in with them. It seems like sometimes people can't resist how easy it could be to mess you over since their honesty comes into play. I would just get my snakes back and move on. There really is no way for you to know who your snakes locked with and who it didn't, so the problem will be proving that. It would probably just be easier to move on. I do agree with Jcoylesr76's thread. I would tell the other owner he owed you snakes, but wouldn't count on it.

I don't think I would give a male to someone on a breeding loan and expect anything out of it. They could breed it to whatever they wish and you would likely never know.

In your case, It may be more beneficial to try working your differences out on a personal level, and then start talking about the snakes. Good luck to you!

I am actually in a "breeding loan" with another member on this forum right now. There is nothing signed, but I consider her a pretty good friend and there is nothing high dollar at risk. I gave her my female and she bred males to her that we agreed to. We also discussed some of the "who gets what" and "what if's" up front. I think we kept it as basic as possible as to avoid any friendship issues.

On a side note...Had there been higher valued animals involved...Signed contracts would definitely be the way to go. other than that...I will not ruin a friendship over a simple pairing. We get what we get and move on.

I have 2 people only that I trust to do a loan without a contract.

I always advise that ESPECIALLY with friends, a contract is a must.

I've done past loans with these 2, and we all have mutual RESPECT for each other. I would never recommend that anyone else enter into one without a contract in writing.

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