Amazon Tree Boa vs Emerald Tree Boa vs GTP

I am trying to decide on an arboreal snake to add to my collection. I will very likely have at least one of each eventually but am unsure which to go for first. I am not overly concerned with handling them (but it would be an added bonus if I could!) and will be doing lots of research on each before I buy. (I am currently reading "The More complete Chondro")

So I want your opinion which should I go for first? I am leaning towards GTP's at the moment but that can change. If you have pictures feel free to post them and any advise/resources would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

GTP > All
and i would say an ARU because of the blue, white, and green colors tend to look the best in my opinion.

I would say GTP. I have one now and also looked into ATBs and ETBs am found that people are having greater success with GTPs and also are having good outcomes with handling them. And Aru's are gorgeous. I have a Biak and he's amazing and taming nicely.

Yeah, I've been drooling at the GTP's they have at this site.

http://www.finegtps.com/

The black ones are really cool but not in my price range at the moment. If I get a GTP I would definatly like some blue on it :D

Anyone else want to chime in?

Thanks

I'm an ATB person. Their colors always amaze me as well as their incredibly thin bodies. Also I'm very attracted to their attitude ;) I think they'd make great display snakes, especially with a fancy custom setup.

I'm not sure how forgiving they are in compared to GTP/ETBs, I always got the feeling that they were all about the same fragility-wise.

Anyway, I know that my first arboreal will be an ATB. Go with whatever snake you want, of course. Good luck and I hope there are pics of whatever you decide to go with!! :)

I don't have any experience with arboreals, but based on appearance alone, I'd love to have either a GTP or an ETB...some of the most beautiful snakes in existence, IMO. I'll get one some day, and probably would lean towards a GTP, based solely on the fact that seeing them in the wild has stuck with me.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

I don't have any experience with arboreals, but based on appearance alone, I'd love to have either a GTP or an ETB...some of the most beautiful snakes in existence, IMO. I'll get one some day, and probably would lean towards a GTP, based solely on the fact that seeing them in the wild has stuck with me.

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I completely agree, these 2 GTP's from "Fine Green Tree Pythons" are my 2 favorite snakes bar none.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...llowsnake2.jpg

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...0046b54dbc.jpg

And this Emerald Tree Boa is also a close contender for me

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/..._Snowballs.jpg

I'd say get an ATB to start. I've had ATBs and GTPs, and ATBs can handle more lenient conditions. Plus with a boa you don't ever have to worry about incubating eggs if you breed them.

If you were looking to spend more money, then I'd say a melanistic/calico GTP or a basin Emerald. I think the higher-end GTPs and ETBs are nicer, but for a lesser priced animal nothing beats the variability of ATBs. GTPs are usually more handleable though and I think make better displays than ATBs.

Here's some pics to help with the decision. Keep us up to date and post some photos when you decide and pick one up!

Baby Biak GTP
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2794/4...32368ef31c.jpg

Same GTP at 2 years old
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5201/5...767ba0a4b5.jpg


An Aru x Hormonal Blue Cross
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5204/5...bc1bf2298c.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5207/5...45160c8756.jpg


Some ATB variability (all different individuals)
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5083/5...0760eb2b0a.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6036/6...15dd7c6c2c.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6038/6...f9ffec976f.jpg


And if you like the dark GTPs, here's a couple possible het leopard ATBs
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6...888de0f748.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7153/6...a57a616162.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7150/6...283c4d8273.jpg

ATBs all the way! They have a far wider variety of colors than the other two species while being easier to care for and typically having a lower cost overall.

Just to show you some more color variety, here's the adult orange patterned male ATB (~5') that I recently acquired:

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...nuckles029.jpg

And here's my ~1.5 year old red garden phase female ATB (~3'):

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...s/IMGP0211.jpg

And lastly this is my four month old gray garden phase "male" ATB (~2'):

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...s/IMGP0165.jpg

There's just something about the look of a snake wrapped around a tree waiting, that is simply awesome. Love these guys, whatever you decide on getting I'm sure your going to love it.

Very eye candy laden thread... #drool. :D

GTP
Aru x Merauke
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...aukearux-f.jpg


This is my eye candy GTP. Very nice blues bright green and the tail is splashed yellow. with white scattered in there as well.

All of them are great but I'd have to go with GTPs

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1...4182picsay.jpg

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7...5308picsay.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/982...5133246762.jpg

Id love to keep hearing some more opinions of people. So far I think ATB's have the edge for my personal taste. But the green colors of the ETBS and GTPs are soooo nice.
Whats the difference in size/girth for the 3 species for males and females?

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Originally Posted by Void

All of them are great but I'd have to go with GTPs

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1...4182picsay.jpg

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7...5308picsay.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/982...5133246762.jpg

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The last pic there might be the nicest snake ive ever seen. I love the colors. I think i saw him in the other thread you posted. Is he a certain locality or anything to get those colors? I also love the bright yellow ones.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

The last pic there might be the nicest snake ive ever seen. I love the colors. I think i saw him in the other thread you posted. Is he a certain locality or anything to get those colors? I also love the bright yellow ones.

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Really wish that some of them would keep their hatchling coloring. I agree the bright yellow guys are amazing.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Id love to keep hearing some more opinions of people. So far I think ATB's have the edge for my personal taste. But the green colors of the ETBS and GTPs are soooo nice.
Whats the difference in size/girth for the 3 species for males and females?

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I believe size wise it goes ATB, GTP, ETB (smallest to largest)

At least with the ETB's locality matters when it comes to size. Most are in the 4-6 ft range but the Basins can get up to 9 feet.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I believe size wise it goes ATB, GTP, ETB (smallest to largest)

At least with the ETB's locality matters when it comes to size. Most are in the 4-6 ft range but the Basins can get up to 9 feet.

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Yea i watched a couple of youtube videos on atb's and they all seem really slender. I love how their heads look huge bc their necks are so skinny. But they dont seem to be as handeable as GTPs. I still think i like atbs the best though.

I am biased but I say Ammies all the way! If you like the yellow coloring, there are solid reds, yellows, oranges, patterned varieties of each, as well as bi-colors and multi-colors. Mine is very handleable as long as I take her out on her perch and let her come off. And I like the oval body shape!

And I am biased toward GTPs! LoL...

Of all three of these species that I've handled, the GTPs were the most docile and most interesting and interactive. They are not demanding in husbandry and they are active and curious snakes. They do fine with respectful handling and make fantastic display animals! :gj:

From my experience and from all I've researched (because it was not long ago that I was in your position), I have found ETBs to be veeerry touchy with husbandry. And even if you have everything absolutely spot-on, they have still been known to simply die for no apparent reason. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rules and many ATBs and ETBs can be both docile and/or hardy. But generalizations are all we have to go on during our research....

As far as eye candy, here is my own GTP, Hunter. He is an PNG x OSHY and was originally bred by finegtps.com and I purchased him from Rocky Gravley from www.thearborealenthusiast.com. I would recommend Rocky in a heartbeat! He is wonderful to work with and was very informative and considerate and kept in great contact with me. His snakes are great!

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ist/Hunter.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...iList/wes1.jpg

And this is my all-time favorite GTP - one day when I have bookoo bucks to spend, I'll have one like him... :D
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/.../BlueFrost.jpg

Thanks guys for all the input, I have narrowed it down to Emerald Tree Boas and Green Tree Pythons at this point. (as I said before I hope to have at least 1 of all three species eventually)

I am heavily leaning towards Emerald Tree Boas, I found a breeder that is only a few hours away so I will keep everyone updated.

So now I have a few question for anyone who has experience with ETB's and GTP's, I know that many people use 2 foot tall enclosures but what about 3 foot tall enclosures is there any benefit to a taller cage? any negative effects?

And of course if anyone have more picots or any of the original three (ATB's, ETB's, & GTP's) feel free to post them I don't think anybody minds lol.

I don't think there's any problems with using a 3' tall cage. I have found that they (GTPs) do seem to prefer sideways thermoregulation as opposed to vertical so if you go with 3' tall, I'd make sure it was at least 3' wide too in order to provide the sideways movement.

The "roomy" standard for a GTP would be a 3x2x2 (WxLxH) but, unlike BPs, there's really no reason you can't go bigger. :gj:

Here is a link on a theory about arboreal cages. It uses studies of ATBs, but assuming a degree of similarity in arboreal species from rainforests, it can be transferred.

http://amazontreeboa.org/caging.htm

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

I don't think there's any problems with using a 3' tall cage. I have found that they (GTPs) do seem to prefer sideways thermoregulation as opposed to vertical so if you go with 3' tall, I'd make sure it was at least 3' wide too in order to provide the sideways movement.

The "roomy" standard for a GTP would be a 3x2x2 (WxLxH) but, unlike BPs, there's really no reason you can't go bigger. :gj:

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Yeah, I get that, I am hoping to have a 4' x 2' x 2' (or 3') (L x W x H)

That way the new cage will fit with my current cages.

What about with Hatchlings, can I go straight to the full 4x2 or should I start in something smaller? (Like dividing the cage to make it 2x2 or would something even smaller like a tub be best?)

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Originally Posted by gardenfiend138

Here is a link on a theory about arboreal cages. It uses studies of ATBs, but assuming a degree of similarity in arboreal species from rainforests, it can be transferred.

http://amazontreeboa.org/caging.htm

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Thanks for the link

Also has anyone here ever dealt with Toni Nicoli? He is practically in my backyard (if I had one lol Apartments suck :tears:) From what I have read on the internet he is one of the best breeders in the Arboreal world but I would love you hear some opinions first hand if anyone has any.

Thanks

between those I would go for a GTP. They are (in my opinion) more handleable with training not to say that an emerald will not tolerate it.

Myself, I have a GTP which we can handle, and an ATB that is all attitude and does not tolerate it at all right now. In the fall I will be adding an adult 1.1 pair of ETBs which to my knowledge do NOT tolerate handling at all.

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Originally Posted by lady_bug87

between those I would go for a GTP. They are (in my opinion) more handleable with training not to say that an emerald will not tolerate it.

Myself, I have a GTP which we can handle, and an ATB that is all attitude and does not tolerate it at all right now. In the fall I will be adding an adult 1.1 pair of ETBs which to my knowledge do NOT tolerate handling at all.

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There are some that can be handled, there are videos on YouTube of it. As I said handeling isn't a big deal to me. I want an arboreal as a display snake. If I can handle it that is just an added bonus. If not I have 6 other snakes to play with :cool:

Thanks for the input

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

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What about with Hatchlings, can I go straight to the full 4x2 or should I start in something smaller? (Like dividing the cage to make it 2x2 or would something even smaller like a tub be best?)

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Start with a much smaller, think like 5-gallon rubbermaid shoe-box tub. They need to feel secure otherwise they may go off feed...

Here's a good link: http://amazon-alliance.com/forums/in...p?topic=2416.0

Good advice, although the neonate enclosures should have some "green plastic fencing" as a half-dome in the cage to allow several points of contact for climbing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

There are some that can be handled, there are videos on YouTube of it. As I said handeling isn't a big deal to me. I want an arboreal as a display snake. If I can handle it that is just an added bonus. If not I have 6 other snakes to play with :cool:

Thanks for the input

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Handling really depends on the individual I have a friend that handles ALL her Ammies just fine as well as her GTPs, and ETBs

That was my reasoning too, we have 2 arboreals that we dont handle as often an 3 others that unless they arent in shed and havent eaten are held a couple times a week.

In the end keep what you love, arboreal husbandry is a piece of cake once you get going. My GTP is in an exoterra screen top front opening which is 24x24x36 (LxWxH) and my Ammie is in a tub that's a good size 2.5ft x 2ft x 2 (LxWxH)

I've never kept atb's or GTP's but I do have a couple ETB's and they're amazing. The only advice I'd give on the height is to make sure they can reach the water bowl from the perches you provide.mine very rarely climb down to the ground to drink, they usually just hang down to get a drink so I make sure they can reach their water easily from each perch and offer different heights and sizes so they can choose. You want to always give him the option to thermoregulate as well by moving along his perch to get closer or further to the heat source or Also switching perches and going higher or lower. Meaning if his preference is a high perch that's close to his heat source then he needs to be able to reach his water bowl on the ground by hanging down. I keep my adult emerald in a 3 by 2 by 2 cage and it works quite well.
My amazon basin tolerates handling very well; she's very sweet and although I don't handle her as often as my balls and boas, I do still handle her about once a week and she's never bitten me. My northern emerald does not tolerate handling as well but he's not too full of attitude. I still handle him but I have to be careful to wake him up before unraveling him and be very gentle and steady with him (you should do this regardless but with him, you just have to be extra careful). I bought my first ETB's expecting them to be observe only pets but I was pleasantly surprised at how chill they are.
Good luck with whatever you choose!!

OK, so how do you guys prefer to heat neonate tubs? I will be using a Radiant Heat Panel in the adult cage, but am unsure on the best method for tubs (I'm guessing UTH's aren't much good for an arboreal snake. are Heat Bulbs/Ceramic heat emitters the way to go? Anything that I use will be regulated by my herpstat 4

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bioteacher

Start with a much smaller, think like 5-gallon rubbermaid shoe-box tub. They need to feel secure otherwise they may go off feed...

Here's a good link: http://amazon-alliance.com/forums/in...p?topic=2416.0

Good advice, although the neonate enclosures should have some "green plastic fencing" as a half-dome in the cage to allow several points of contact for climbing

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Totally agree with this!

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

OK, so how do you guys prefer to heat neonate tubs? I will be using a Radiant Heat Panel in the adult cage, but am unsure on the best method for tubs (I'm guessing UTH's aren't much good for an arboreal snake. are Heat Bulbs/Ceramic heat emitters the way to go? Anything that I use will be regulated by my herpstat 4

Thanks

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I have considered a UTH (ultratherm) placed on the side of the tub. The snake can move sideways on the perch closer to the heat source, or along the perch away from it. Bulbs are hard with tubs. I love my radient heat panel in Hunter's cage! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

I have considered a UTH (ultratherm) placed on the side of the tub. The snake can move sideways on the perch closer to the heat source, or along the perch away from it. Bulbs are hard with tubs. I love my radient heat panel in Hunter's cage! :gj:

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I guess that could work, my apartment stays in the mid 70's year round so the UTH wouldn't have to do too much.

Anyone else have a method for heating arboreal tubs?

And keep in mind that GTPs like slightly cooler temps than BPs. Mid to upper 70's is about right, so your apartment should be just fine. Not sure about ATBs or ETBs though - most of my experience is with GTPs... :gj:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

And keep in mind that GTPs like slightly cooler temps than BPs. Mid to upper 70's is about right, so your apartment should be just fine. Not sure about ATBs or ETBs though - most of my experience is with GTPs... :gj:

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Yeah, I'm actually more worried about it being too hot lol

On that note does anyone use fans to simulate a breeze/keep the cool side temperatures correct?

What I've found with ETB's is that regurgitation is a huge issue and I was really concerned about this when I first starting keeping them bc once it starts it's really hard to stop. From research and talking to many really knowlegable people, I've found that part of the problem is an environment that's too hot. Owners base their temps on the temps in their natural habitat and this isn't actually correct. These snakes live in trees and there's a lot more fluctuation in temps and breeze up high than there is on the ground. At nighttime, many snakes will burrow down and get hear from the ground but the aboreal snakes will endure fairly cool nighttime drops. ETB's and GTP's also take a long time to metabolize food so if temps are too high and it's stuffy, then imagine that rat sitting in it's stomach.....it starts to decay, produces toxic gases and thus the snake starts to regurgitate.
I keep temps on the low end or the spectrum, I also provide a nighttime drop, I have a mister that goes on twice a day for ten minutes and once overnight for 5 minutes and I use fans to circulate the air. All I can tell you is from my own personal experience and thus far my ETB's are doing awesome. They feed great, handle exceptionally well for ETB's, defecate regularily and never regurgitate. So to answer your question - yes I think a fan is a great idea!!

Thanks, that's pretty much what I got from my reading but I wanted a confirmation from somebody with experience. It makes sense that an animal that lives up in the trees all the time would need some sort of breeze to simulate it's natural environment correctly.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Yeah, I'm actually more worried about it being too hot lol

On that note does anyone use fans to simulate a breeze/keep the cool side temperatures correct?

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When I worked for a breeder who specialized in GTPs and ETBs the cages were not super ventilated nor did he have elaborate Fans for a breeze. The ceiling fan was rarely on in the room, so i wouldn’t consider it a need. Plus you may find keeping humidity in the enclosure extremely difficult as a result of a fan.

just my :twocents:

I should also add the room they were in was rather large and he climate controled the whole room not just each cage.

I'm not too worried about humidity as the cages I have now stay at 60% without misting so a humidifier/ misting system/manual misting should be able to keep the humidity in the proper ranges. (not necessarily all three at the same time)

I understand that it isn't a necessity but I'm wanting to go all out on this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I'm not too worried about humidity as the cages I have now stay at 60% without misting so a humidifier/ misting system/manual misting should be able to keep the humidity in the proper ranges. (not necessarily all three at the same time)

I understand that it isn't a necessity but I'm wanting to go all out on this one.

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in that case go for it. just figured I toss that idea into the mix about humidity. So are are you set on GTP or ETB? and when you get one update with Pix!

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Originally Posted by tcutting

in that case go for it. just figured I toss that idea into the mix about humidity. So are are you set on GTP or ETB? and when you get one update with Pix!

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Humidity is definitely a point worth bringing up :gj:

I'm 99% on going with an ETB, GTP as a close runner up (all depends on availability)

And yes I know the rules pics will come (Hopefully early summer!)

So just a quick update for anyone who is interested:

I have found a forum dedicated to ETB's, great place with really nice people reminds me of BP.net but is very slow. (took a few hours to get a response) it seems like there are only 20-50 active members but they all seem really knowledgable

http://corallusforums.yuku.com/directory#.T3KA7nh2YqY