Breeder loan... who gets what?

Hi,

I'm thinking of doing breeding loans with a friend. I'm the one with all of the females and my friend has the males. How do you split the clutches?

Is it 50/50?
Is it based on the values of the parents?

I'm just not sure what's fair especially when one of his males might be breeding multiple females of mines. All of my females are morphs that are of equal or higher value to my friend's double codom male. It takes way more time to raise a female to breeding size than a male. Any info or advice would be appreciated.

It is however you decide with the other owner you want it to be. Some do 50/50, some shoot for specific numbers if a certain morph is produced. Whatever you do, the agreement should be in writing and detailed enough to cover every contingency you can think of (death or illness of snake - who pays vet bills, etc.). It should even state who picks first in a split. Most deals gone bad are the result of unclear communication before the deal. Good luck!

I would like to start with quarantine...make sure any animals coming into your collection (if even temporarily) are properly quarantined.

I know when breeding dogs sometimes the owner of the male will get pick of the litter...so you could kinda do it that way. Or you could look at the prospective outcome and decide what you both want if its produced.

How many pairings are you doing? Like how many females are going to be (expected) to lay clutches?
Just decide who gets first pick on each one of the clutches before you even start pairing. One person gets 1st, 3rd, 5th pick the other one gets 2nd, 4th, 6th pick etc etc.. You just keep going back and forth. This is to be decided before the snakes are even paired. That way if you get odd number of eggs in some clutches you wont have to decide how your gunna divide them up. Also if one snake lays a huge 12 egg clutch and another only lays 4 eggs its still perfectly fair for both of you since the picks were already predetermined. Also if a snake slugs out or doesnt end up laying eggs its just bad luck an doesnt matter bc the picks were already decided upon. How you decide who gets first pick on which clutch is up to you and there are many ways to decide...

Run as far away as you can from breeding loans. Someone will end up mad in the end. Breeding loans suck.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Run as far away as you can from breeding loans. Someone will end up mad in the end. Breeding loans suck.

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Actually, that was what I was thinking when I posted above but was being polite. If you do go down this road, every detail - and I mean EVERY detail - should be in writing.

I think as long as you have everything in writing it can be done successfully...

And what happens if the odds gods screw ya and give ya one morph and five normals? Someone is gonna be pissed

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Originally Posted by snake lab

And what happens if the odds gods screw ya and give ya one morph and five normals? Someone is gonna be pissed

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I already addressed that problem in my first post where i explained a method that i think is quite foolproof.
Although this is just something i came up with, i was thinking along the lines of the nfl draft since thats something im more familiar with.

A male should be considered as the stud with stud compensation. The one with the male should get 1st pick and last pick. When the clutch hatches that person picks his animal. Then the person with the female picks the second and last animal for the stud holder. That splittin the clutch even is not fair. The person with the female should come out better out of the deal regardless of morph quality

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Run as far away as you can from breeding loans. Someone will end up mad in the end. Breeding loans suck.

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Reading about breeding loans made me interested in it, but the way I see it is that it only looks good on paper.

I'm sure some people can pull it off, but I think they would have to have a strong friendship before going into this.

just my 2 cents

If you read the BOI, they are also one of the most frequent reasons for bad guy threads. I've started to do this to help someone out, but when I started drawing up the contract the negotiations broke down. I was glad it did on the front end. It just showed me that if you don't work out every contingency up front, you will have problems in the end.

I stay away from them. Just the quarantine time combined with the breeding season means you are taking care of a snake for a long time that is not yours.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

A male should be considered as the stud with stud compensation. The one with the male should get 1st pick and last pick. When the clutch hatches that person picks his animal. Then the person with the female picks the second and last animal for the stud holder. That splittin the clutch even is not fair. The person with the female should come out better out of the deal regardless of morph quality

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I see your point. Females are worth more as breeders and 1 male can be bred to multiple females; therefore, the person with the females should get more from the deal. Is that what you mean?

No frackin way would I do a breeding loan. First of all I would never want someone else taking care of my snakes and second I dont want to take care of someone elses snake. Even if you do have a contract and the female is yours, what if your breeding multiple gene snakes and you only get 1 triple or quad gene baby? No way I'd want someone getting the best and most expensive combo out of the group just for dropping his male off and letting me do all the hard work. No thanks, even with a contract someones not going to be happy:colbert:

I'm in the I would never do a breeder loan camp, but if I did I would split the eggs 50/50 and the dat hat they were laid I would have the 2 of us choose what eggs we each got. (this way it is up to the odds gods who gets what).

I think it really depends on what you want to get out of a breeding loan. I won't send my snakes out but I will take in someone else's. I currently have 2 snakes that don't belong to me. The male belongs to one friend and the female belongs to another. I ended up with them because I have breeding males and females and they couldn't get them to lock up so I said I would give it a try. No one involved really cares too much out the outcome so it's not a big deal. Frankly I have all the males and females that I want to work with and if someone else wants me to breed on of my males to one of their females I don't really care. One or two more mouths to feed doesn't bother me. Next year a friend of mine wants me to breed my pastel yellow belly male to his female yellow belly and I may ask for pick of the clutch from that but I have other projects that I am much more excited about going on and don't really care either way.

I guess long story short, it depends on what you want out of it and what they want out of it.

ok I will ring in.
Our breeding loan was a simple albino to a het albino I kept the snakes since I had the higher valued snakes ( visible male) we split the clutch in half, with myself getting the first pic ( again I had the higher valued snake). the clutch produced 2 albinos and 3 hets.
but the best part of it is, I went from doing a adoption out,to making a friend , the breeding loan, a girlfriend and I am now engaged to my Fiancee 4thesnakelady. I luvingevery mintue of it Just wished we had enough room to move all my snakes into here with us too.

I havent started breeding yet, but I'm a great problem solver. :) My opinion, as soon as the eggs are hatched, play the lotto. Instead of waiting for the eggs to hatch then alternating like a kickball team in middle school, just alternate marking the eggs you want. neither knows whats inside, but then nobody can really argue because neither knew what the outcome would be. But saying its an 8 egg clutch, one person could really tip the scales of chance, getting the best 4 and leaving someone butthurt. Just an idea.

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Originally Posted by mechnut450

ok I will ring in.
Our breeding loan was a simple albino to a het albino I kept the snakes since I had the higher valued snakes ( visible male) we split the clutch in half, with myself getting the first pic ( again I had the higher valued snake). the clutch produced 2 albinos and 3 hets.
but the best part of it is, I went from doing a adoption out,to making a friend , the breeding loan, a girlfriend and I am now engaged to my Fiancee 4thesnakelady. I luvingevery mintue of it Just wished we had enough room to move all my snakes into here with us too.

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Moral of the story, if you are going to do a breeder loan, do it with someone single that you are attracted to. Just kidding.

Get it in writing..Get it in writing..Get it in writing..Get it in writing..Get it in writing..oh and did I mention you should always Get it in writing... I can't stress that enough. Many a friendships have been ended over simple little breeding loans.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Moral of the story, if you are going to do a breeder loan, do it with someone single that you are attracted to. Just kidding.

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Hahaha Yes!
Sooo are there any single hotties out there that wanna trade snakes for a breeding loan with me?? lmao

ive never breed snakes. but i have breed full blooded pitbulls when i loaned my boy i got first pick for 2 pups. when i breed my female i let them get 1st pick for 1 pup i had to do all the taking care of mom.

anyways maybe doing a certain number instead of half the clutch would be good because after all your the one caring for the female and caring for the eggs

this is just a hard call to make, on the surface i would just say no, to many variables to give a better answer especially not knowing what his males are, and what your females are.

I have one person I do breeder loans with and at this point that's it and probably will be it as far as I know.
For most people I think breeder loans would be a mistake, it takes a pretty special friendship to pull it off successfully.

I've already chimed in on here, but I thought of another way I would do a breeding loan :D. If I were to ask someone if I could loan my blank, or if they could loan their blank, I'm probably wanting a certain morph from that clutch... If I were to lend my enchi lesser to someone who had an enchi, in an attempt to make super enchi lessers, I would definitely want (in this order) 1 super enchi lesser (m/f), or an enchi lesser female, OR a super enchi (m/f), or an enchi female. If the clutch consists of only enchi males, lessers, and normals, I would just accept the fact that the odds guys weren't on my side. Though if it were like an 8 egg clutch, and only 1 egg survived, I wouldn't know what to do :confused::P.

The more I read about breeder loans, the more I think I'm the perfect person to do a loan with.

- I only keep males.

- Most of my boys are double gene.

- If for some reason they all hatch female, you win the lottery.

- I would only be interested in one possible male from the pairing, you keep the rest. If more than one of the combination that I'm interested in hatches, we both win.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Hahaha Yes!
Sooo are there any single hotties out there that wanna trade snakes for a breeding loan with me?? lmao

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No kidding! There has to be at least one girl here in SoCal interested in breeding snakes :snake:

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Originally Posted by Slim

The more I read about breeder loans, the more I think I'm the perfect person to do a loan with.

- I only keep males.

- Most of my boys are double gene.

- If for some reason they all hatch female, you win the lottery.

- I would only be interested in one possible male from the pairing, you keep the rest. If more than one of the combination that I'm interested in hatches, we both win.

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When i graduate school in a few years ill be moving south. I see your boys hooking up with my girls lol :D

NEW PLAN: we work together and breed our snakes together. We then trade or sell babies to raise money to by jinx's babies he'll be producing! Just dont tell him ;)

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

When i graduate school in a few years ill be moving south. I see your boys hooking up with my girls lol :D

NEW PLAN: we work together and breed our snakes together. We then trade or sell babies to raise money to by jinx's babies he'll be producing! Just dont tell him ;)

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I like both ends of this plan, and maybe we can find a mother / daughter snake breeding team out there some where...

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Originally Posted by Slim

I like both ends of this plan, and maybe we can find a mother / daughter snake breeding team out there some where...

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I like the way you think :D:rofl:

Gainsville in t-minus 6 semesters lol!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Gainsville in t-minus 6 semesters lol!

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Come on down! I think you'll like the weather :gj:

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Originally Posted by Slim

Come on down! I think you'll like the weather :gj:

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Well you see the problem is, once i come down, i aint gunna wanna leave lol!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Well you see the problem is, once i come down, i aint gunna wanna leave lol!

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It's only a problem if you don't like Coca-Cola or sweet tea...and, down here we call them Moon Pies, not Whoopie Pies...similar concept, different execution :rofl:

I think there a small college in Gainsville you could attend....;)

Oh how i love florida. Islamorada fishing is the life

Iced tea runs in my blood lol. Sweetened or unsweetened... Coke is ok i guess. I wasnt aware it was a "florida thing". My grandparents live in New Bern, NC, home of pepsi cola lol. UF is a sweet school but i hate tim tebow!
I totally derailed this thread, my apologies to the OP haha

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I totally derailed this thread, my apologies to the OP haha

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You had a lot of help, mea culpa!

Meh, the original question was well answered....

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Meh, the original question was well answered....

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True Dat!

Of course, a certain former member, he who shall not be named, would be all up in my chili by now for being off topic...

:rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I have one person I do breeder loans with and at this point that's it and probably will be it as far as I know.
For most people I think breeder loans would be a mistake, it takes a pretty special friendship to pull it off successfully.

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I think the key here is "special friendship". Not necessarily meaning someone you would trust your life with, but you have to both have the right mentality and neutrality to pull it off. No emotions invlolved, otherwise you may lose a friend if something goes wrong.

We have a breeding loan agreement with a friend, we have his albino girl, he has 8 of our normal girls. He gets most of the Morph females, we get all the Morph boys and 1/5 of any Morph girls. This works well for us because our females are normals, he is providing all the Morph males to breed with, and currently, it is Morph males we are needing. Next season, we will get 100% of the morphs, male or female, assuming we end up with males this season to work with.

I can imagine it gets much more touchy with Morph females where their cost increases significantly. In our case, it also helps that we mold our breeding plans according to our friend, so as not to overlap projects- we will both be after different morphs from any loan done, rather than both competing for the same animals.

Our system works for us... but it can be easy disaster for others

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Originally Posted by Slim

True Dat!

Of course, a certain former member, he who shall not be named, would be all up in my chili by now for being off topic...

:rofl::rofl:

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Haha, I don't miss him one bit!

As for a breeding loan, never in a million years would my snakes leave my possession. Uh-uh, no way.

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