Wacking a rodent....how exactly is this done

:? Okay, I was reading a previous post in the BP general information forum about transitioning a BP to frozen pre-killed.I will be doing this over the course of the next few weeks and I was intrigued by the what was referred to as Randys "12 step plan" to introduce a BP to taking pre-killed.I was wondering how exactly do you stun, or pre-kill a rodent yourself in order to facilitate the snake later taking thawed P/K......

I am not exactly sure how to humanely dispatch a rodent without it turning into some kind of disaster :wink: how do you for lack of a better term " Wack it"....I dont want to have to bash the living daylights out of some poor rat or mouse...I just want to strike it once or twice and be done with it.I appreciate any advice on this aspect of Ball Python husbandry and I apologize for my lack of knowledge on this feeding method.I must admit that I am learning a great deal about BP husbandry from this forum and the cool people on it...thanks in advance...


EyeLashViper

Well when the petstore doesnt have F/T and I have to buy live.....THIS IS MEAN BUT SORRY........I either put a ruler behind there neck til' it dies, or fill up a bag with water with the mouse in it....

I hate rodents, period.

It is actually rather easy, I just grab the tail and wack them off a hard floor. Kills them instantly if done hard enough, and often with little to no blood involved. For the queezy, they can be put in a pillow can and smalled off a flat surface, same effect, and works equally as well. There is also gasing, which I have done. We get dry ice some times, just stick them in a container with a piece of it. The stuff turns into carbon dioxide when it warms up, takes a while though. Never did it again cause the mouse started squeeking. You could also put it in water, then you'd create a dense gas that would knock it out in a minute, and kill it in 2 or 3. Rodent dealers use gas, but for keepers it isn't reasonable cause it's expensive. I just happened to have it handy. It makes damn good explosions tho.

You can also snap their necks, takes practice. Slamming works best though.

I have "The Rodent Dispatcher." It is a 1" x 2" about 12" long. I hold the rat up by the tail, and whack it with the corner of the board at the base of the skull. I've done it enough times that I can usually regulate whether I stun it, leave it twitchin', or kill it. Practice makes perfect, but then I don't exactly have a queasy stomach when it comes to whacking. I have found that I get better, less messy results when using "The Dispatcher" than when I was using the wall.

I wish there was a way to kill a rat without being physical about it. I also will be switching soon, and I have a pretty weak stomach. Hopefully I will be able to get my guy to eat thawed after a while. He has refused every attempt of anything dead in any form so far...

I just flick em in the head 1-3 times.........=P

Another thing i heard works, but haven't tried is....holdinding them down flat on a board or any surface. put a ruler or stick behind their neck and give their tail a quick tug....apparently this separates the last neck verebrate and they die instantly.....But like i said i haven't tried it.

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Originally Posted by DMreptiles

Well when the petstore doesnt have F/T and I have to buy live.....THIS IS MEAN BUT SORRY........I either put a ruler behind there neck til' it dies, or fill up a bag with water with the mouse in it....

I hate rodents, period.

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Maybe you should consider learning a HUMANE way to kill feeder rodents instead of offering up the lame excuse that you "hate rodents, period" and that should somehow magically justify the fact that you use as inhumane a method of drowning to dispatch your feeders. Have someone expereinced teach you the proper method for cervical disloction, or else buy your frozen feeders in bulk so you don't have to worry about the pet store running out. Inhumane treatment of live feeder rodents is something I REALLY take issue with - it's not cool, I don't care how much anyone hates rodents. Keeping snakes to which you must feed pre-killed rodents means learning and respecting the balance between predator and prey.

K

Drowning is a little harsh bro... I can't think of a scarier way to die...

Dude, thats sick. That's long and painful. I hate rats dude, but don't torture them. Reconsider your killing methods.

But since you use F/T it's not like you do it daily.....

Just think about it.

I have had many snakes. Many did take fresh killed and a few F/T. When I had to kill the rodent myself, I would take a 5 gallon bucket, and put a wire grate about mid way up, leaving space in the bottom, and put dry ice in the bottom, and pour a little water over it, drop the rodent in, and put the lid on..within minutes, it does kill them with the gas created by the dry ice and water. This was the most humane way I could do it at the time. And it does not hurt the rodent in any way making it unsafe to feed to your snake. I am all for doing it as humanely as possible. However, right now, I am stuck feeding my bp's live..I have tried Randy's method and many others, and it cost me alot of money wasted in dead rodents that would never get eaten and only thrown away. Since I am stuck feeding live, it means I MUST be right there to supervise the whole situation for my snakes safety. In any case, good luck in getting your snake/snakes to eat fresh killed or F/T... it is easier, and a lot less expensive in the long run cause you can buy bulk and safer for the snake/snakes.

Where do you get your dry ice, and how expensive is it?

I was buying it at what is called a "beer dock" a drive through beer, pop and cig place. I was buying it by the bag..5 lbs @ $2.39. I would just use a hammer and knock off a piece for use.

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Originally Posted by ktulu

Another thing i heard works, but haven't tried is....holdinding them down flat on a board or any surface. put a ruler or stick behind their neck and give their tail a quick tug....apparently this separates the last neck verebrate and they die instantly.....But like i said i haven't tried it.

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I tried this method....once. Maybe it's because it was a fuzzy rat, or maybe my superhuman strength got out of control, :lol: but all I did was pull the tail off the poor thing, which made it difficult to bash.

I wonder how difficult it would be to put together a small container with a nozzle to accept a CO2 cartridge like you would use in a pellet gun? One could buy several rats/mice, place them in the container, and then simply screw the CO2 cartridge onto the fitting and fill the container with CO2, accomplishing the same effect as the dry ice method. One could be fed immediately, and the others frozen for later.

Since we can't call up the Rat Mafia and have a contract taken out on the little rodents, I guess we have to figure out our own ways...

Hi Hoomi,

I provided a link to an article I found on euthanizing rodents, it has some good ideas and it is humane. I bet you could modify the chamber to take c02 cartridges, but, I wonder, will those be cost effective, as the way the article says. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/index.ph...opic&t=158

My problem is, is that I refuse to kill any animal unless I plan on eating it myself. So, luckily my BP eat's live critters. Though I am the one putting it in the tank to be ate, I am not doing the actuall killing. This is just the food chain in progress. Another problem, is my youngest daughter has pet rat's, so Killing them would more or less kill her. She excepts the fact that our BP must eat, but her just knowing that I was bashing them etc. would tear her up, and I'm not willing to risk that. But if your going to do it, just do it as humanely as possible. I like the rodents myself.

I understand how you could be against killing rats, but feeding live rats can do serious damage. I think you should definitely consider frozen, all you do is thaw them out like hamburg.

I understand what is said about them possibly hurting the BP, but they have no help in the wild and seem to manage to survive. I do keep a very good eye on him while he is feeding, and he seems to be very smart as to when to strike his intended victim. He has never just immediately hit his food when it is first introduced. He watch's for a while and seems to wait till the best oppurtunity. He loves to stalk his victim. I dont know exactly how he did it with his previous owner (who only fed him every 6 weeks) but I have had him going on 5 weeks and have fed him 3 times and this is the way he prepares his meal's. He has never had anything but live food and I am worried that he would not take to fresh frozen thawed meal's and besides, live is much cheaper. And after having to feed 5 children and one grandaughter, cheaper is better. :lol:

It's worth a shot though.

I may give it a shot one of these day's, but the thought of having frozen rat's in my deep freeze just dose'nt appeal to me. To bad they wont eat Venison, would have no trouble there.

The reptile shop I go to, the cost for live versus frozen is the same. The only difference is that the shop pre-whacks them and stores them in the freezer, versus leaving them in a container and having to feed them continually.

If they're out of frozen, they'll even whack a fresh one for you if you prefer not whacking it yourself. I personally prefer not taking a live one home. Dead ones don't try to chew out of the bag, and if Phil isn't interested in eating that evening, it's a simple matter to just put the rodent in a bag and stick it back in the freezer.

Opinions vary on refreezing thawed rodents. One school of thought is to not refreeze at all, while another school of thought maintains that each freezing breaks down the tissue at the cellular level a little each time, hence a rodent frozen a couple of times should be theoretically easier to digest.

On using the CO2 cartridge to euthanize the rodents, I think it would be cost effective only if used on numerous rodents at one shot, and not one at a time. CO2 cartridges aren't too expensive if bought at places like Walmart, but if you add the cost of one of those to each and every rat/mouse you feed, the cost to feed goes up dramatically. My biggest thought on those is that they're very easy to find and store, whereas dry ice may not be quite so available, and any not used will soon thaw and evaporate. Euthanizng say a dozen rats or mice at a time, feeding one and freezing the rest for later (unless you're feeding a large operation and will be feeding many rodents in one evening) should work well for most people who don't mind having some frozen rodents in the freezer.

I hadn't thought of it before, but it just occurred to me how simple it would be to connect a CO2 cartridge to a chamber. Most bicycle shops sell CO2 inflaters for pumping up bike tires after fixing an "on the road" flat. These have nozzles which will either connect to the standard Schraeder valve (just like on your car tires) or the smaller Presta valve.

A Presta valve from an old bike tube can be easily removed, and because it is threaded down its entire length, a hole can be drilled in the top of whatever you're going to use for the chamber, the valve inserted through the hole, and the normal retaining nut used to secure the valve in place. If additional sealing is desired, caulking around the valve with an adhesive would provide that. A vent hole opposite the intake valve would allow for the escape of the normal air. Since many of these inflaters include a "trigger control", the flow of CO2 could easily be regulated to start out at the lower concentration, as mentioned in the article, and then advancing to the higher concentration as needed. Gauging the amount induced by the reaction of the animal would be one way to determine the amount. If the animal starts to appear distressed, too much is being introduced at once, and the flow can be stopped.

This is a workable idea, and probably not one that would cost too terribly much to put together.

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Originally Posted by Ironhead

I understand what is said about them possibly hurting the BP, but they have no help in the wild and seem to manage to survive.

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Except for the fact that in the wild, the snake is not trapped in a confined area with a potentially aggressive rodent. Each can get away from the other if absolutely necessary. Not so when introducing a live rat into the snake's enclosure. Feeding live should ALWAYS be supervised - I've seen some gruesome results of rats attacking snakes in a very short time period when not carefully watched.

Just my $.02

K

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I do keep a very good eye on him while he is feeding, and he seems to be very smart as to when to strike his intended victim.

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As quoted above, I do supervise the whole process. If he refuses to eat (which he has not as of yet) I will remove the rodent. It's just a choice of preference, and this is my preference.

Totally understandable. If you're supervising the whole process EVERY SINGLE TIME and haven't had any problems, then who's to fault you? I just didn't want you thinking it was foolproof on the grounds of "snakes in the wild have no help & manage to survive." That's apples & oranges compared to captivity.

K

Your right on the captivity part and never meant that it was a foolproof way. Just that in the wild they eat live prey and I think that live is the way for my BP. Reading all the post's on this site though is the reason that I do watch him during the entire process of his feeding and I appreciate the concern and help from all that reply to my post's.

Be careful, it takes a fraction of a second for a rat to tear a piece outta your bp.