rats??

ok well i just got 50 rats and i dont have the space for them i thought the guy told me he would have them f/t and i dont know how i can put 50 rats down. what do you guys use to kill your rats. i hate doing it but it has to be done in order to feed my snakes.

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Originally Posted by cberg

ok well i just got 50 rats and i dont have the space for them i thought the guy told me he would have them f/t and i dont know how i can put 50 rats down. what do you guys use to kill your rats. i hate doing it but it has to be done in order to feed my snakes.

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well i just kill the rats with my snake. however if u need to kill a bunch of rats, i would do it with dry ice. it depletes the oxygen in the air an they will go to sleep long before they freeze to death...

You can make a chamber using a large cooler and a smaller kritter keeper that fits inside. Put the rats in the kritter keeper and place it in the cooler. Place dry ice in the cooler (outside of the kritter keeper) and close the lid. The rats should be dead within 3-5 minutes. The dry ice gives off CO2 and the rats will just go to sleep then asphixiate. Quick and painless.

just don't put the rats directly on the dry ice. use some sort of tray.

i asked many people how they do it and the said just to put them in a chest freezer and come back later. they said it puts there body into a hibernation type thing and then they just never wake back up. but i also heard that thats animal cruelty and is not inhumane

Yes do not freeze them Alive. You can look into making a co2 chamber with either dry Ice or gas. Both are Cheap to make.


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This: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Y-CO2-chamber)

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Originally Posted by cberg

i asked many people how they do it and the said just to put them in a chest freezer and come back later. they said it puts there body into a hibernation type thing and then they just never wake back up. but i also heard that thats animal cruelty and is not inhumane

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That's horrible and inhumane. It is very painful to freeze to death. Have you ever had frostbite?? It hurts. Rats can hurt too. Asphixiation from CO2 is painless and peaceful. It's not expensive to do. The rats may be food, but that's no reason to treat them inhumanely.

(BTW, I undertand that you're not saying you would do this, I'm just pointing out why it would be wrong to do it).

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

You can make a chamber using a large cooler and a smaller kritter keeper that fits inside. Put the rats in the kritter keeper and place it in the cooler. Place dry ice in the cooler (outside of the kritter keeper) and close the lid. The rats should be dead within 3-5 minutes. The dry ice gives off CO2 and the rats will just go to sleep then asphixiate. Quick and painless.

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yep like i said . listen to her. we both said the same thing kind of. : ) no matter u still get the same outcome..

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Originally Posted by cberg

i asked many people how they do it and the said just to put them in a chest freezer and come back later. they said it puts there body into a hibernation type thing and then they just never wake back up. but i also heard that thats animal cruelty and is not inhumane

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why don't you go read a book, they hide information in them like the knowledge your lacking...

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Originally Posted by cberg

i asked many people how they do it and the said just to put them in a chest freezer and come back later. they said it puts there body into a hibernation type thing and then they just never wake back up. but i also heard that thats animal cruelty and is not inhumane

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Rats are warm blooded animals just like you are. They feel cold the same as you do. What you described works for cold blooded animals... not mammals. Do not freeze them to death.

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Originally Posted by kklepac

Rats are warm blooded animals just like you are. They feel cold the same as you do. What you described works for cold blooded animals... not mammals. Do not freeze them to death.

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And it really isn't even considered humane with cold blooded either.

thank everyone i just made the chamber with dry ice looked it up on youtube im just going to stick to buying f/t

Read up on "home euthanasia of rats"....and remember, that any "humane" way to put them down is only humane if done correctly. If you build a C02 chamber, and have the gas on full blast or on too low, you are defeating the purpose.

Okay along these lines, if I wanted fresh kill nut wanted to freeze them after for later, does anyone know where to get those tiny little jewelry type Ziploc bags that frozen mice come in?

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I dont buy CO2 killed rats. EVER!!! Co2 is a nasty toxic gas that seeps into the bllod stream and can cause some nasty side affects. Granted this is what has been proven in humans but i for one am not chancing poisoning my little dudes and dudets. I will knock the rats on the head or snap the neck before i use gas and chemicals to kill my snake food.
This is what CO2 does.

•Muscle twitching
•Reduced neural activity
•Flushed skin
•High blood pressure
As the severity of hypercapnia increases, the following carbon dioxide poisoning symptoms may be experienced:
•Headache
•Lethargy
•Elevated rate of cardiac output
•Irregular heartbeat
•Panic
•Convulsions
•Chest pain
•Hallucinations
•Vomiting
•Stomach pain
•Seizures
•Memory problems
•Changes in vision
•Unconsciousness
•Eventually death

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Originally Posted by Bill T

I dont buy CO2 killed rats. EVER!!! Co2 is a nasty toxic gas that seeps into the bllod stream and can cause some nasty side affects. Granted this is what has been proven in humans but i for one am not chancing poisoning my little dudes and dudets. I will knock the rats on the head or snap the neck before i use gas and chemicals to kill my snake food.
This is what CO2 does.

•Muscle twitching
•Reduced neural activity
•Flushed skin
•High blood pressure
As the severity of hypercapnia increases, the following carbon dioxide poisoning symptoms may be experienced:
•Headache
•Lethargy
•Elevated rate of cardiac output
•Irregular heartbeat
•Panic
•Convulsions
•Chest pain
•Hallucinations
•Vomiting
•Stomach pain
•Seizures
•Memory problems
•Changes in vision
•Unconsciousness
•Eventually death

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I suggest that you read this, it was written based on the American Veterinary Medical Association's Guidelines on Euthanasia

http://www.ratfanclub.org/euth.html

Here is the part that matters from the link above:

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Home Euthanasia

The only humane way to euthanize a rat at home without veterinary help is with carbon dioxide (CO2). Euthanasia with CO2 is approved by the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA).

Concentrated CO2 is a central nervous system depressant and actually causes anesthesia. You know how you yawn when you’re sleepy?:cens0r: This is the body’s way of getting rid of excess carbon dioxide in your system which is making you sleepy. CO2 does not cause suffocation. The rat will be able to breathe normally, will become anesthetized and will then die.

The key to using CO2 humanely is its concentration. The normal concentration of CO2 in the air is only 0.038%. According to the 2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia, breathing concentrations of 7.5% increases the pain threshold, and concentrations of 30-40% cause anesthesia (unconsciousness) within 1-2 minutes. However, concentrations of 50% or higher irritate the eyes and respiratory tract and cause pain. Your goal is to create a concentration of 30-40% CO2 and hold it there until the rat is unconscious.

At first I used a cylinder of compressed CO2; however, with this method, the concentration of CO2 can easily get too high. (Using dry ice is not recommended because the CO2 amounts cannot be controlled and it also can cause severe burns.):cens0r: Then I learned of a website written by Eric Lee of Maralee Rattery in St. David, AZ at www.alysion.org/euthanasia/ that tells how to euthanize mice by creating CO2 with baking soda and vinegar.

The vinegar and baking soda method is quite simple and even better than using compressed CO2 because the concentration of the CO2 can be more precisely controlled. I have modified Eric’s method so it is suitable for rats.:cens0r: I have euthanized many rats with this method.:cens0r: If you want to test this method before using it, you can use a short candle to stand in for the rat.:cens0r: The CO2 will put out the candle.

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Yes u can kill rodents with it but has there ever been a study on a creature eating its food source that was consistently doused in Co2? My problem with it is not whether its humane for the rat but is it healthy for the snake.

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Originally Posted by Bill T

Yes u can kill rodents with it but has there ever been a study on a creature eating its food source that was consistently doused in Co2? My problem with it is not whether its humane for the rat but is it healthy for the snake.

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Perhaps I'm daft... but the symptoms you listed are related to carbon dioxide toxicity, not carbon dioxide "consumption". There simply isn't a biological mechanism that I'm aware of in which hypercapnia can be induced by ingesting a prey animal that died from it.

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Originally Posted by weofui

Perhaps I'm daft... but the symptoms you listed are related to carbon dioxide toxicity, not carbon dioxide "consumption". There simply isn't a biological mechanism that I'm aware of in which hypercapnia can be induced by ingesting a prey animal that died from it.

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On further contemplation... don't ALL rats eaten by constrictors have hypercapnic levels of carbon dioxide in their blood? When an animal is prevented from taking in oxygen, carbon dioxide continues to build in the blood until the metabolic process stops completely, which wouldn't be until some time after the thing is actually swallowed.

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Originally Posted by Bill T

I dont buy CO2 killed rats. EVER!!! Co2 is a nasty toxic gas that seeps into the bllod stream and can cause some nasty side affects. Granted this is what has been proven in humans but i for one am not chancing poisoning my little dudes and dudets. I will knock the rats on the head or snap the neck before i use gas and chemicals to kill my snake food.
This is what CO2 does.

•Muscle twitching
•Reduced neural activity
•Flushed skin
•High blood pressure
As the severity of hypercapnia increases, the following carbon dioxide poisoning symptoms may be experienced:
•Headache
•Lethargy
•Elevated rate of cardiac output
•Irregular heartbeat
•Panic
•Convulsions
•Chest pain
•Hallucinations
•Vomiting
•Stomach pain
•Seizures
•Memory problems
•Changes in vision
•Unconsciousness
•Eventually death

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You may want to stay away from carbonated beverages then.....

And you may be surprised to find that the meat industry often packs meat in high concentrations of CO2 to retain the meat's natural coloring.

And don't even get me started on Alka Seltzer! :/

And Pop Rocks!

Nice. Cant say that surprises me. Sorry if i came off a little strong. I had more than a few adult carbonated beverages when i wrote this lol. I breed most of my own food for my BP's so its not much of an issue

CO2 does not stay in the body's system. It disolves in the blood and is broken down. Asphixiation occurs when the rat succumbs to lack of oxygen. A small animal like a rat does not react to CO2 in the same manner as humans - their metabolism is too high. They breathe the CO2 and die almost immediately. That's why it only takes 3-4 minutes for rats to die - it takes a lot longer for a human to asphixiate from CO2. But even so, the fact that the CO2 does not remain in the bloodstream is a proven fact. This is why people can survive CO2 poisoning if they get help in time. :gj:

Sorry if that sounds kind of rambling - it's been a long day, lol.....

CO2 isn't really toxic. CO is toxic. The only reason CO2 is bad for you is because it takes the place of O2, making it so that you don't get the O2 you need to survive.

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Originally Posted by apple2

CO2 isn't really toxic. CO is toxic. The only reason CO2 is bad for you is because it takes the place of O2, making it so that you don't get the O2 you need to survive.

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Exactly. ;)

This post has turned into some sort of twisted love for rats or how to kill them humanely???

I kill rats with my snake !!!

MY Snake sees it, bites it, then crushes it to death then eats it. It may not be "humane", but that's how it goes.

I guess i just do whats required to keep me snake alive, shame on me ....

I do have to admit all this "rat caring thing" on a snake forum gave me a good laugh. THANK YOU...

Building death chambers for prey items seems a little too much for me. Unless your doing it on a pretty big scale. For the average snake owner I think a thump over the head is just as humane if not more so then being constricted to death by a snake. Don't get me wrong I don't enjoy feeding live at all, but that being said I made a commitment to my snake and if I have one that will only eat live or fresh killed so be it. I just find it pretty funny that on a python forum we are pretending to be worried about the well being of a rodent that at the end of the day is on this earth to be in our pets belly.
Ps I'm not condoning cruelty to the rodents at all I just think a simple flick is no worse or better then a gas chamber.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Building death chambers for prey items seems a little too much for me. Unless your doing it on a pretty big scale. For the average snake owner I think a thump over the head is just as humane if not more so then being constricted to death by a snake. Don't get me wrong I don't enjoy feeding live at all, but that being said I made a commitment to my snake and if I have one that will only eat live or fresh killed so be it. I just find it pretty funny that on a python forum we are pretending to be worried about the well being of a rodent that at the end of the day is on this earth to be in our pets belly.
Ps I'm not condoning cruelty to the rodents at all I just think a simple flick is no worse or better then a gas chamber.

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Yes ... I made that point. thanks for reiterating it for me. this post just makes me laugh.

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Originally Posted by robinbanks

Yes ... I made that point. thanks for reiterating it for me. this post just makes me laugh.

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Didn't even read your post until now

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Originally Posted by Rob

Didn't even read your post until now

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lmao the outcome of a rat is going to be a turd.