How to stun/paralyze feeder mice/rats

ok... not sure if i'm posting in the right spot (mods feel free to move me! :) )
i fed my BP last night for the first time... and triiiiiiied to use frozen mice (which i use for my milk snake) the mouse was kind of small (i believe theyre called "hoppers") ...she wanted NOTHING to do with it... so my bf brought home a small rat and as im saying "oh man i feel so bad the poor thing is gona scream" hes says no it wont **WHACK** and thuds it against the wall :( he works at an LPS and that is what he has been taught to do... is this right? :( can i just stick it in the freezer for a few seconds? any other way of going about this? do they really need to be paralyzed or stunned? if so... any advice on how to get over the guilt of hearing the poor little thing smacking into the wall? or any advice for other ways of doing this?
thanks in advance ^.^

Cervical Dislocation

1. Restrain the rodent in a normal standing position on a firm, flat surface and grasp the base of the tail firmly with one hand

2. Place the thumb and first finger of the other hand against the back of the neck at the base of the skull

3. Quickly push forward and down with the hand restraining the head while pulling backward with the hand holding the tail base


CO2

http://www.rodentracks.com/DIY_Co2_Chamber.html

Please do not paralyze or stun any feeder animal. If you are going to kill them please do it quickly and humanely. Do not stick it in the freezer, this causes extreme pain as the animal goes into hypothermia.

You can use dry ice to kill them using Co2.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...and-Humane-too...

A mouse hopper is way too small for a ball python. Depending on how big your ball is, you should be using nothing smaller than rat crawlers.

Be sure you have warmed the prey item up enough so the snake thinks it's alive. Milk snakes are not picky about temperature or the "zombie dance". Some ball pythons require both.

This thread talks about Humane Euthanasia.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ane+euthanasia

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aldebono

Please do not paralyze or stun any feeder animal. If you are going to kill them please do it quickly and humanely. Do not stick it in the freezer, this causes extreme pain as the animal goes into hypothermia.

You can use dry ice to kill them using Co2.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...and-Humane-too...

A mouse hopper is way too small for a ball python. Depending on how big your ball is, you should be using nothing smaller than rat crawlers.

Be sure you have warmed the prey item up enough so the snake thinks it's alive. Milk snakes are not picky about temperature or the "zombie dance". Some ball pythons require both.

This thread talks about Humane Euthanasia.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ane+euthanasia

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thank you so much! i was just coming on here to say disregard this post and for someone to delete... was talking to a friend and i am going to try a larger frozen and dangling with tongs, i thought the hopper was way too small but thought it might still eat it as a snack or somethign... LPS was out of frozen everything.... or else i would have bought a bigger frozen :) Thanks for the links i appreciate it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

Cervical Dislocation

1. Restrain the rodent in a normal standing position on a firm, flat surface and grasp the base of the tail firmly with one hand

2. Place the thumb and first finger of the other hand against the back of the neck at the base of the skull

3. Quickly push forward and down with the hand restraining the head while pulling backward with the hand holding the tail base


CO2

http://www.rodentracks.com/DIY_Co2_Chamber.html

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what exactly does this do? if its not painful for the mouse i will try this if (s)he doesnt take the larger frozen/dancing mice/rat

Make every effort you can to get your BP to accept F/T. It will make you life a lot easier in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Make every effort you can to get your BP to accept F/T. It will make you life a lot easier in the long run.

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I am not sure if "easier" is always right. If you have a lot of animals F/T can be a PIA. I fed 10 (#11 was in shed and refused) snakes F/T last night and it took a good 45 min after the rats were thawed. I still will do this because I believe it to be so much safer. But I can see why big breeders do not.

My big advice with F/T is do not be afraid to let the snake skip a meal or 3 to get hungry enough to eat the F/T. This may not always work, but give it a shot. Also warmth is key. I use a hair dryer for about 45 sec AFTER the rat is fully thawed, right before I offer it, and that does the trick. If they start to immediately track it, then it is hot enough.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

But I can see why big breeders do not.

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Many breeders, big or not, have their own rat colonies, and feeding live saves them a step or two, which saves them time. Time is money.

Whacking them like your bf did kills them instantly... So it may have seemed barbaric but it really wasnt...

that was my main problem about getting a snake was i felt bad about feeding rats and them screaming than i learned about the whole F/T thing and thats when i decided toget 1 for sure

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Originally Posted by Pixiestix4e

what exactly does this do? if its not painful for the mouse i will try this if (s)he doesnt take the larger frozen/dancing mice/rat

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Sorry I missed your question in this post.

Cevical Dislocation is a fancy way of saying it breaks their necks and spinal cord from the base of the brain. It causes instant death for the rodent when done correctly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinx667

My big advice with F/T is do not be afraid to let the snake skip a meal or 3 to get hungry enough to eat the F/T. This may not always work, but give it a shot. Also warmth is key. I use a hair dryer for about 45 sec AFTER the rat is fully thawed, right before I offer it, and that does the trick. If they start to immediately track it, then it is hot enough.

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x2 It won't hurt your BP to miss a few meals, but it might get him hungry enough to accept a "microwave dinner" instead of live. (Disclaimer: Do NOT ever actually microwave a rodent. IT WILL EXPLODE.)

ok! so new plan = thaw small rat then blast with blow dryer for 45 sec then dangle in her face (with tongs) :) i def couldnt snap the mouses neck :( so i really hope this works... i see a few problems with my attempt last night :) the mouse was room temp, 2x too small and i just tossed it in there.... didnt bother with any dances :D
my milk snake is a very very non picky eater i guess!

I actually wouldn't dangle it in her face. I have a few still picky on f/t, what I do is zombie dance it around on the other side of the tub then slowly get closer to the snake. That will usually get their attention and when you get close enough they will grab it. I tried to just dangle but they get scared and refuse it. Just a thought if its still being a pain.

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Originally Posted by TimNA

I actually wouldn't dangle it in her face. I have a few still picky on f/t, what I do is zombie dance it around on the other side of the tub then slowly get closer to the snake. That will usually get their attention and when you get close enough they will grab it. I tried to just dangle but they get scared and refuse it. Just a thought if its still being a pain.

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x2 if you bring it right up into their face theyll get scared. Gradually get her attention with it and bring it to her.

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Originally Posted by Pixiestix4e

what exactly does this do? if its not painful for the mouse i will try this if (s)he doesnt take the larger frozen/dancing mice/rat

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It breaks the neck in a way that's as instant and painless as you're going to get without gassing it with CO2 or doing an injection of some pricey euthanasia chemical aids.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Whacking them like your bf did kills them instantly... So it may have seemed barbaric but it really wasnt...

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It CAN kill it instantly but it is one of the least guaranteed methods and in terms of barbaric vs humane options, the procedure described for safely breaking its neck above IS more humane and 'thudding' the mouse IS barbaric. Don't give poor advice with anecdotal or no evidence.


Like others have said, just be patient and make it eat the F/T. Ball pythons are opportunistic feeders, meaning the animal will eat something dead against its 'preference' as an alternative to starving. They can also safely fast for extreme periods of time with no negative effects.

Heat and the zombie dance make a huge difference in getting them to switch, but if you're having problems I would recommend leaving it in the cage overnight and keeping the snake in the dark and not disturbed. When it's hungry, it will eat it.

If you do the zombie dance and the snake shys away like it's scared, try warming it up, tossing it in the tub with as little disturbance as possible, turning out the lights, and leaving it alone. My female is very nervous and rarely strikes anything with me around. I have to leave her in the dark and then 2 minutes later she pokes her head out of her hide, sees it, and nails it immediately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

(Disclaimer: Do NOT ever actually microwave a rodent. IT WILL EXPLODE.)

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Sadly, this is true...and, it's not a mess you ever want to clean up...or explain to your signicant other :whisper: