Spiders and pinstripes

I just had a couple noob questions lol!

From what I understand spider x spider is lethal correct?

I was messing around with the genetic wizard and noticed that spider x spider would make 1/4 normal and 3/4 spiders and when you do pinstripe x pinstripe you get the same result, 1/4 normal and 3/4 pinstripe. So my question is;

Is pinstripe x pinstripe also lethal? Or do they just not have a homozygous form?

Sorry if this is a terribly stupid question lol my brain is somewhat dead from doing hours of homework... =P




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Whether or not spider x spider is lethal or not is still up in the air, if you make the pairing you will get normals and spiders. the real question is if there is a homozygous spider or not.

Pinstripes are considered a dominate gene I believe, so there is no visual difference between the heterozygous and homozygous animals. (I believe that the spider is the same way but it has not been proved either way)

The genetics wizard is apparently assuming spider is a dominant mutation because that's what the founder says it is although I think he admits he didn't do the breedings to actually prove that. Many of us speculate that the lack of a public proven homozygous spider could be caused by the mutation actually being homozygous lethal which would technically be co-dominant. However, if that is the case it would be pretty much impossible to ever prove; we would just go on and on with no answer like we have now for 20+ years.

Pinstripe on the other hand has actually been proven to be a dominant mutation. The pinstripe founder reports producing a homozygous pinstripe that looks like the regular heterozygous pinstripes but proved homozygous by producing a large number of only pinstripe babies (100% pinstripe clutches rather than the normal expected 50% pinstripe when bred to normal for pinstripes). So, pinstripe is known not to be homozygous lethal. Also, the homozygous pinstripe genotype looks just like the heterozygous pinstripe genotype which is what classifies the mutation as dominant.

the wizard doesn't differentiate between homozygous and heterozygous dominant traits that's all. like said above, there no evidence of anything with the spider besides rumors and hearsay and the pin is proven dominant.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

The genetics wizard is apparently assuming spider is a dominant mutation because that's what the founder says it is although I think he admits he didn't do the breedings to actually prove that. Many of us speculate that the lack of a public proven homozygous spider could be caused by the mutation actually being homozygous lethal which would technically be co-dominant. However, if that is the case it would be pretty much impossible to ever prove; we would just go on and on with no answer like we have now for 20+ years.

Pinstripe on the other hand has actually been proven to be a dominant mutation. The pinstripe founder reports producing a homozygous pinstripe that looks like the regular heterozygous pinstripes but proved homozygous by producing a large number of only pinstripe babies (100% pinstripe clutches rather than the normal expected 50% pinstripe when bred to normal for pinstripes). So, pinstripe is known not to be homozygous lethal. Also, the homozygous pinstripe genotype looks just like the heterozygous pinstripe genotype which is what classifies the mutation as dominant.

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What if he was just really really lucky with that clutch? We dont know for sure that there isnt a super form of either morph. The odds of no one producing one yet are very slim...but still possible.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

What if he was just really really lucky with that clutch? .

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I don't know...I know breeders who have had 100% pin clutches. They were a Pin to a Normal breedings.

True, technically you could never prove a dominant either; there would always be some miniscule chance you were just lucky with a het. I forget how many only pinstripe offspring he reported but I did the math at the time and was convinced he really did have a homozygous pinstripe.

Last I heard TSK is doing some work with actual records in an attempt to produce and prove a homozygous spider. Perhaps their numbers will eventually be enough for some to make up their mind on what sort of mutation is spider.

For example, you COULD produce 20 pins in a row from a regular heterozygous pin to normals but the odds of doing that would be literally 1 in 1 million (technically 1 in 1,048,576). At that point I would just assume the pin was homozygous and the mutation dominant.

Lol ya guys i get it, i was just saying its a possibility but very very unlikely. But yea i have a better chance of seeing Haileys Comet twice than that being the case lmao...

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

But yea i have a better chance of seeing Haileys Comet twice than that being the case lmao...

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Lol!

Thanks for clearing that up guys!

So if you breed spider x spider do you get normals, spiders, and some dead eggs that may have been homozygous? Or were not sure on it yet because they could of just been luck that you had a few bad eggs anyway? Or is it all just speculation at this point?


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SPIDERS ARE AMAZING. Best mutation ever IMO. You may not have any dead eggs. Its all about what the odds gods want to help you with. If you put a spider and a spider together you make spiders and normals. That's the truth. What someone needs to find is a hidden gene Spider and see what happens. LOL

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

For example, you COULD produce 20 pins in a row from a regular heterozygous pin to normals but the odds of doing that would be literally 1 in 1 million (technically 1 in 1,048,576). At that point I would just assume the pin was homozygous and the mutation dominant.

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I thought the number brian gave me was 27 eggs so thats over 1 in a hundred million.

TSK gave numbers on a couple of spider X spider clutches. I remember at one point they were running right about 1/4 small eggs that didn't hatch. It was a small sample size and could have just been luck/bad luck. Last I heard they were planning to breed all the hatchlings looking for a homozygous spider starting last year or the year before I think.

Looking for a homozygous spider, huh? I propose we call it the Super Wonky Ball? :rolleyes:

Ok so what are the odds of producing only spiders in a clutch of seven. With only one parent being a spider?

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Originally Posted by Slim

Looking for a homozygous spider, huh? I propose we call it the Super Wonky Ball? :rolleyes:

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I second that ;-P haha!




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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

Ok so what are the odds of producing only spiders in a clutch of seven. With only one parent being a spider?

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The odds of this are 0.78125% if the spider parent is heterozygous. The odds are 100% if the spider parent is homozygous.