People Killing snakes

I know this is a BP forum but as snake keepers I feel it effects us all. Have you seen these videos of rattlesnake round up, or the show rattlesnake republic? I'm so disgusted with the way these animals are being tortured and killed for amusement. Yet PETA won't do a thing about it because snakes are not a fuzzy and cute. There is not excuse what so ever for the treatment of these snakes, they are not over populated they are not killing people in record numbers. It simply for entertainment and it's sick. Thoughts?

There was recently an article about rattle snake round ups in Reptile Magazine.

When I was stationed at Dyess AFB back in the mid-80's I attended the Sweetwater Rattle Snake Round Up one year. It was pretty bad.

Yes I've seen it on youtube and on TV.
I hate how the rattlers have their mouths sewn shut with no anesthesia/pain killer to prevent them from biting. And I hate how they're put in a freezer to "calm them down". And after all that, people pose with them in photographs as if the snakes are trophies. Humans sicken me at times!

Although I wouldn't look to PETA for help. They kill more animals than they save.

Rattlers should be controled some way. I dont belive they should do it the way they are doing it but where i live in texas rattlers always end up in my back yard where my kids play sooo

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ht=rattlesnake

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Originally Posted by GoFride

From ReptileChannel.com;
The Evans County Wildlife Club in Claxton, Georgia has decided to abandon its rattlesnake roundup in favor of a wildlife festival that will celebrate rattlesnakes instead of collecting and butchering them for their meat and skin, according to a press release put out by The Center for Biological Diversity. The group, along with Coastal Plains Institute, Protect All Living Species and One More Generation sent a letter of praise to the wildlife club for its decision to stop killing the snakes at its annual roundups.
The Evans County Wildlife Club will now hold the Claxton Rattlesnake and Wildlife Festival that will feature educational displays of the eastern diamondback rattlesnake and other wildlife native to the region. Held during the second weekend in March, the festival will feature educational programs, entertainment, and other activities for families.
"We're so happy the rattlesnake roundup in Claxton is being switched to a humane event that celebrates these great native animals and recognizes the importance of saving them," Collette Adkins Giese, an attorney at the Center for Biological Diversity said in a prepared statement. "The Whigham Community Club needs to follow suit -- it needs to recognize that massacres of endangered animals are just wrong, and clearly the wrong message to send to young people about our relationship to the natural world."
The groups sent a petition letter with more than 5,000 signatures to the Whigham Community club asking that club to stop its roundup.
The groups maintain that these roundups are significantly reducing the population of Eastern diamondback rattlesnakes (Crotalus adamanteus), and that analysis of data from four of these roundups show a steady decline in weight of captured animals as well as the number collected. In addition to hunting pressures, these snakes are declining due to habitat loss and death by motor vehicle on the state's roads, the groups said.
The eastern diamondback rattlesnake is a venomous snake with a range throughout the southeastern United States from southeastern North Carolina to Florida and the Florida Keys, southern Mississippi to Eastern Louisiana and Georgia. Its native habitat includes forests, swamps, woodlands, and prairies. It preys primarily on rabbits, rats, and other rodents as well as certain birds. It is the largest rattlesnake species and average 3 1/2 to 5 1/2 feet in length.

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Originally Posted by kyser/wrx

Rattlers should be controled some way. I dont belive they should do it the way they are doing it but where i live in texas rattlers always end up in my back yard where my kids play sooo

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I lived in the great state of Texas for five years, and I only came across a rattler once out in the middle of no where, so I just left it alone and walked the other way. As far as them coming into your property and getting near your kids that's another story, I'm a father so I'm with you on that. What these people are doing is not getting rattlers from where they can harm people, they are going out and hunting them down in there holes far away from where they will do harm to people. Then making a show of chopping off there heads.

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Originally Posted by kyser/wrx

Rattlers should be controled some way. I dont belive they should do it the way they are doing it but where i live in texas rattlers always end up in my back yard where my kids play sooo

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Without those rattler your yard would be full of vermin sooo i guess pick your poison...
I personally would like to start a stray cat roundup and kill a bunch of them and sell their fur as souveneirs...I dont like cats to begin with, let alone a crapload of stray ones everywhere!

I love snakes to death, I have been fascinated with them my entire life. What these people are doing is cruel, but I must admit I am forced to kill snakes every now and then :( but the reason being I live on a lake, and I have four dogs that run around in the back heard and swim in that lake everyday. I feel terrible doing it but I don't want my dogs to get bitten. :(

Look i understand the argument but there are 2sides to this coin. As long as there is human population growth there is going to be the need to keep wildlife numbers in check. Now the way its done may be suspect but it needs to be done. Here in virginia i do alot of deer hunting on a few farms i have leases on. I have dmap permits which allows me to kill alot of deer. The dmap is a management tool to keep the population under control. Now 90%of the meat i take is donated to hunters for the hungry so it goes to a good cause. Rattlesnakes are over populating texas just like hogs are. They need to do something to keep numbers to a manageable number. Again im not agreeing with methods of dispatching these snakes but its a necessary evil. People move into snake country and public safety becomes a concern. Safety of livestock is also a concern. I hunt in texas and in some areas the hogs and the rattlers are way out of control. I hunted one ranch where if we didnt get the deer out before dark we werent allowed to go retrieve it till morning cause the snakes were that bad. You have to think about this subject with an open mind

I can't stand people who kill snakes. I don't care what reasons they have it disgusts me in any situation.

The deer lovers say the same thing about hunters. Vegans say the same thing everytime you eat a burger

It's just a snake. No different from a cow, pig, chicken, or head of lettuce. As long as you eat it or use it in some way who cares.

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Originally Posted by EricWright

It's just a snake. No different from a cow, pig, chicken, or head of lettuce. As long as you eat it or use it in some way who cares.

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I don't care about leather or crocodile skin etc but I get pissed off when I see snake skin.

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Originally Posted by evan385

I don't care about leather or crocodile skin etc but I get pissed off when I see snake skin.

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What makes them different. None of them are people, none of them have souls, and I'm sure all of them are delicious.

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Originally Posted by EricWright

What makes them different. None of them are people, none of them have souls, and I'm sure all of them are delicious.

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Because it's a snake and I love snakes. It's all in how you look at it. You see just another animal but I don't see it that way.

Killing animals doesn't bother me. I've killed my fair share of animals so I'm a little jaded.
However, it's the methods used to kill exotics/factory farm animals that I'm against. It is not a humane killing. Many of these animals suffer greatly before death.

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Originally Posted by EricWright

It's just a snake. No different from a cow, pig, chicken, or head of lettuce. As long as you eat it or use it in some way who cares.

What makes them different. None of them are people, none of them have souls, and I'm sure all of them are delicious.

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All subjective. How do you define a soul?
What gives a human a soul and not an animal?


Trolls will be trolls.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I personally would like to start a stray cat roundup and kill a bunch of them and sell their fur as souveneirs...I dont like cats to begin with, let alone a crapload of stray ones everywhere!

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Haha im with you on that Mike!

As far as the Rattlesnake Repubic show goes, i enjoy watching them catch the rattlers, though i block out what happens to them later. But when something gets overpopulated you have to do something to contain it. Im pretty sure theres a deer and quail forum somewhere online with people whinning about people killing them also.

I personally look forward to going snake hunting this spring, catching and releasing of course! I enjoy watching snakes in their natural habitat and watching how they react to humans.

.............

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Killing animals doesn't bother me. I've killed my fair share of animals so I'm a little jaded.
However, it's the methods used to kill exotics/factory farm animals that I'm against. It is not a humane killing. Many of these animals suffer greatly before death.





All subjective. How do you define a soul?
What gives a human a soul and not an animal?


Trolls will be trolls.

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Don't feed the trolls

I did a lot of research on rattlesnake roundups for a persuasive speech in my GE speech class. I will tell you this. There are 8,000 rattlesnake bites a year across the US and 2 are fatal (almost always when people do not seek medical attention). The majority of bite victims are males ages 18-24 and roughly 60% of those bites involve alcohol. The rest of the majority of bites occur when an individual is attempting to kill the snake, as they are required to enter its strike range to do so. A shockingly small percentage of bites occur to hikers in rural areas. Moral of the story, beer does have magical properties that turn you into Steve Irwin and the best way to not get bit by a venomous snake is to not get near it.

I live in northern California and I see rattlers every summer. I was raised to watch my step and be aware of my surroundings. Seeing a rattlesnake is really cool! They are neat animals and they will not hurt you if you give them space. If you frolic through weeds and rock piles and reach your hands into crevices, you will get yourself into trouble.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Killing animals doesn't bother me. I've killed my fair share of animals so I'm a little jaded.
However, it's the methods used to kill exotics/factory farm animals that I'm against. It is not a humane killing. Many of these animals suffer greatly before death.





All subjective. How do you define a soul?
What gives a human a soul and not an animal?


Trolls will be trolls.

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Genesis 1:

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

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Originally Posted by EricWright

Genesis 1:

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

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Cool story bro. Too bad not everyone is christian...

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Originally Posted by EricWright

Genesis 1:

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

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Only applies to people who believe on god....
Like I said, subjective.

Dominionism and Anthropocentrism are not my cup of tea....

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Cool story bro. Too bad not everyone is christian...

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Too bad some people are going to hell. No offense it's just my religion.

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Originally Posted by EricWright

It's just a snake. No different from a cow, pig, chicken, or head of lettuce. As long as you eat it or use it in some way who cares.

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How can you say that on a reptile forum im sensing a troll your sick and anybody who kills snakes just to show off is sick and morbid and i hope they burn in hell for the rest of an eternity

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Originally Posted by ball python 22

How can you say that on a reptile forum im sensing a troll your sick and anybody who kills snakes just to show off is sick and morbid and i hope they burn in hell for the rest of an eternity

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That was a little harsh there..... Just ignore it BP22...

Ignore him.

Side note: the original bible never once mentioned Hell.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by EricWright

Too bad some people are going to hell. No offense it's just my religion.

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If youre implying I am I could honestly care less. If thats the case ill see you there. Maybe we can room together :)

I'm a little surprised that I'm the first one to mention this, but aren't there several peer reviewed scientific studies showing that rattlesnake round-ups are actually producing more dangerous snakes? Basically, IIRC, the louder the rattle, the more likely to be found by "hunters" and then they are basically pressuring a species into evolving into a quiet or even silent rattlesnake because they are the ones left to breed.

I'd rather be warned, and loudly, to stay away from a snake that doesn't really want to bite me as much as I don't really want to get bitten, then accidentally sneak up on one who can't warn me away.

I have hunted western diamond back, as far as wild game goes, it is one of my favorite. That being said I believe that they should be protected by fish and game dept. with regulated seasons and catch records to protect the natural populations.
I hate these round ups that have been known to destroy populations around the areas where the roundups take place.

Truth is that some people eat snake meat. Unless you're vegan,(or at least vegetarian) you're a bit of a hypocrite if you're protesting people killing snakes for meat but enjoy a burger or a chicken leg.

I don't mind people killing snakes for meat and skins. I do mind wholesale slaughter of any species when it begins to decimate the populations. I VERY MUCH mind inhumane treatment of any animal, which includes the sewing shut of the mouths of snakes, putting them in freezers, kicking or stomping them...

If they filmed people hunting snakes in a sustainable way, dispatching the animals quickly, then I would have little objection. But when they are glorifying tormenting animals the way the "rattlesnake republic" type shows are depicting, I do have objections. I've sent in emails to Animal Planet, Discovery Channel and my cable channel provider, in addition to the governors of the states that have these "events".

By the way, it's not trolling to state a differing opinion. I'm sure that rat lovers would object when certain people say "Just kill them, they're just rats", but that doesn't mean the person is trolling to say kill the rodents you want to use as food for your snake either.

I saw somewhere in this thread somebody mention that some species become over populated. IMO there isn't much truth to that. What we have is too much human expansion. That is, the the animals were there first, at least before European's arrived. If you live in Florida, you should expect gators, and if you live in Texas you should expect snakes. The snake didn't ask for the housing development to encroach into its territory, so why should it be killed of relocated? Even in the midwest where the deer are over populated, what really happened is that every natural pretador of the deer was exterminated by humans, so their populations boomed, so we had play the role of the wolf/bear/etc and kill them to keep them in check. Look at yellowstone and wolf-elk relationships.

If you kill something, eat it, use it, and you become part of the ecosystem, otherwise you're a vagabond. I do not know of any single non-human animal in nature that just goes around looking at other animals. You either eat or be eaten.

Animal Planet - Suprisingly inHumane

No matter what the cause, some animal species DO become overpopulated. It's plain fact that at times certain species can have a population explosion and overgraze, over-predate, or over-crowd their territory.

Alligators have had a huge population explosion in the last 25 years, and they're everywhere. Is this the same population levels as before Columbus landed? We haven't a clue. No one was counting alligators then. Are there gators in places that are now unsafe for the humans? Yes. So gators are hunted and/or removed.

I haven't seen any population studies that say rattlesnakes are "overpopulated" in any place. In fact, every study I've seen says the populations are DOWN, not up. That doesn't mean the population couldn't be up, pushing extras into human areas, or that the snakes are not thriving because there's more snakes than prey item in the territory. Any species can overbreed, whether it's due to human actions or just nature's cycles.

Deer are a great example. They have cycles in the wild, breeding super well on a lush year, then overgrazing and overbrowsing so that some of the deer suffer and end up becoming unhealthy and dying/being killed more easily. That's when the cycle is in the downturn and there will be fewer deer, leading to less competition and healthier fatter deer, which produce more fawns, leading to a "boom" year... leading to the same cycle spot as before. This will happen with wolves in the area, with humans in the area, with nothing in the area. Nature has it's own ways of balancing populations. Not that humans haven't affected the natural balance, often in bad ways... but it's silly to say that there's nothing but a perfect balance without the human influence either.

Well yes, there are natural variations. A great example, if my memory serves me correctly, is the 9 to11 year cycles found in Canada with the snowshoe hare and the lynx. Hare population goes up, lynx population goes up, for a while, and then after hares are killed and eaten, their population falls and the lynx's population falls too, lagging behind the hare, only to repeat itself.

I don't think there is perfect balance without humans. More and more research from archaeologists and the like are showing that humans have been manipulating their environment for thousands of years pretty much everywhere. Read the work of William Denevan, Charles Mann, and others for more detail. So to suggest that balance occurs without humans is wrong because there isn't anywhere without human influence. You cannot not have humans. Balance is a misnomer anyway when you start getting into adaptive cycles and panarchy. Resilient might be a better word choice.

My point was merely I find it sad and comical in a way that people live in certain areas of the country and then get upset when 'wilderness' encroaches into their yard. One episode of Billy the Exterminator comes to mind where a woman was upset in Lousiana when an armadillo was digging in her flower garden. What did you expect moving to the countryside?

There are problems at times with human-wildlife interactions. A rogue bear wonders into a remote fishing village or a gator finds his way into a playground. But when you dredge the swamp to build up the land to put your house on a canal that goes directly into the everglades, you're going to get gators.

When you distill this down to its core, IMO, it becomes a question of values, that is, people value human safety over the 'rights' of the gator (or other 'nusiance' animal) (anyone ever see video of the elk in Estes park, CO?) I put them in quotes because I don't know of a better term. The gator does what gators do and humans define what is a nusiance. I am not going to argue values because it gets really hard to argue right vs wrong, especially on the internet.

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Originally Posted by captainjack0000

I saw somewhere in this thread somebody mention that some species become over populated. IMO there isn't much truth to that. What we have is too much human expansion. That is, the the animals were there first, at least before European's arrived. If you live in Florida, you should expect gators, and if you live in Texas you should expect snakes. The snake didn't ask for the housing development to encroach into its territory, so why should it be killed of relocated? Even in the midwest where the deer are over populated, what really happened is that every natural pretador of the deer was exterminated by humans, so their populations boomed, so we had play the role of the wolf/bear/etc and kill them to keep them in check. Look at yellowstone and wolf-elk relationships.

If you kill something, eat it, use it, and you become part of the ecosystem, otherwise you're a vagabond. I do not know of any single non-human animal in nature that just goes around looking at other animals. You either eat or be eaten.



Animal Planet - Suprisingly inHumane

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That would be me that stated that earlier in the thread. Your splitting hairs. Whether you call it over population or human growth the end result is wildlife needs to be kept in check. And native rattlesnakes in places like texas are one of those species that need to be kept in check. The tracts of land that i have leases on are in areas where the deer need to be kept in check. This is why i work closely with the vdgif bioligists and the dmap program to dispatch my qoutas. We practice qdma ( quality deer management) on these tracts. I am givin a certain number of dmap tags every year to cull the herds. This is important for a number of reasons. 1 as human growth expands the natural food sources for the animals get smaller therefore you have issues as starvation, poor health etc that leads to disease. Have you ever seen what cwd does to deer? Cwd aka chronic waste disease is horrible. No cure. Its effects are neuroligical shut down, blindness, closing of the esophugus, and thats what happens before death so its slow and very painful and very contagious. The only remedy is mass dispatching of entire herds in a big area. Proper management practices of wildlife help stack the odds against these types of health issues in wildlife it needs to be done. It just is what it is. If we let the wildlife over populate and dont keep them in check it is worse for the wildlife. Now thats just with deer. The same issues hold true with any species of wildlife where they are abundant. The gators in the south are under a similar managment sytem. The wild hogs in the south and texas are so bad that it is nearly impossible to get them under control. So yes overpopulation is an issue

"Wild hogs" aren't really wildlife too, they're introduced feral hogs mostly. Other than javalina, which are in Texas... so technically they should be eliminated, they do millions in damage, are dangerous but I don't see federal bans on pigs going through anytime soon.

I heard/saw about deer this past year in Texas being decimated by the drought, and the Wildlife management were practically begging people to go ahead and take their allotted number of deer during the seasons, to take some of the strain off on the population.

Well true. Hogs were introduced species from the settlers the became ferel. The hogs were under control for a period of time until they started making a huge comeback at the turn of the century. The fact that the numbers make it impossible to manage makes them a huge problem. Im not saying they are indiginous wildlife but wildlife none the less. The fact that human growth is responsible for endangering species, extinction of speceies and over population issues with species is one we have to look at for what it is. Its something i have been greatly involved with through my state with deer, coyotes and now hogs. The biggest invasive species so far we have had to deal with is the snakehead infestation. That is a direct result of people releasing a species able to thrive in our conditions and reproduce at staggering speed. And i dont doubt for a second that the sbakehead problem from md to florida is a driving force behind the glades python argument even though we as the reptile community the python problem isnt a direct result of releasing rathe of gurricane andrew. Regardless im sure the sbakehead issue has driving force for hsus agenda.

Deer are over populated because of there natural predatores have been killed off. Wild hogs were introduced. Snakes are in your backyard because you came to theres.
All of these "problems" You can call it are because of human expansion. So no snakes are not becoming over populated. A reasonal number of animals can be killed each year. That includes but is not limited to bear, rattlesnakes, and alligators. Rattlesnake round ups are not a reasonable number. Alligators were not killed in a reasonable number neither were buffalos. But because of human expansion we killed them off then let them expand again to bring there numbers up. After that no one focused and realized what the carrying capacity is which is why there numbers exploded for example alligators. Which if you dont know what that is, is the population of an animal that can be substained in one area. Most deer populations are the result of the same situation, they were killed off then humans noticed the lack of deer, let them regain a population or introduced them elsewhere and the numbers exploded.

Hogs are not supposed to be here. So they can be killed off, actually most people will pay you to kill them. But once again the cause of this is human expansion. People brought them here and they are breeding machines.

Anyway rattlesnakes populations are not exploding, that is a lie to continue to kill them. They have natural predators to kill them off, humans kill thousands of them off a year eitherway with or without the round up hicks destroying them.
Ive lost hope in animal planet a long time ago when they took off nature documentaries and only put on dog and cat shows. Now all they do is exploit animals to try to make a profit.

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Its effects are neuroligical shut down, blindness, closing of the esophugus, and thats what happens before death so its slow and very painful and very contagious. The only remedy is mass dispatching of entire herds in a big area.

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I am not too familiar with CWD, but its an infection of one kind or another.

So because these animals die from CWD, we're better off shooting them? I don't get how our encorachment into their habitat influences CWD. I guess stressing the animal increases risk of disease, so why not stop stressing the animal?

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As human growth expands the natural food sources for the animals get smaller therefore you have issues as starvation, poor health etc that leads to disease...

If we let the wildlife over populate and dont keep them in check it is worse for the wildlife. Now thats just with deer. The same issues hold true with any species of wildlife where they are abundant.

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So we humans encroach into an animals range, and strip it of food and cover, so it gets deathly ill and our solution is to shoot the animal? Seems like we would have been better off shooting it before it had a chance to get sick. Or why not change our ways so as to prevent the animals from losing natural food sources and habitat?

What happened to the natural pretadors of deer in Texas? I know in the midwest, humans killed them off, either via gun or by converting forest into hyperfertilized corn field.

When I was in college, the same rhetoric was being used. The deer are over populated, the gators are over populated, etc etc. The solution, kill them. Lots of fish and game people still believe it because that was what they were taught. Hell, I was taught that forests have a climax stage of succession. But it seems like a farily new paradigm is emerging that doesn't agree with these ideas. The overpopulation of a species is probably at the making of our own hands. Our notion that any species is overpopulated might be flawed. Would we have said the passanger pigeon was overpopulated?

I guess my point is still it becomes a question of values. We don't want to see starving deer so we cull the herd, no matter how natural CWD might be. We don't want gators in our yard, so we shoot them or move them. It is humans who always prevail because of the systems we've instituted. We displace animals and people who don't own land. We value our private property over animals. It's the same reason we kill moles. I only want the good nature in my yard, you know butterflies, flowers, and birds.

I'm not saying you personally think this, but many people do. Again, the lady from Billy the Exterminator - and she was angry about a harmless armadillo.

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Originally Posted by captainjack0000

and she was angry about a harmless armadillo.

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The American armadillo can be very destructive, is of no concern as far as population decline, and is a known carrier of leprosy...not the best example of a harmless animal.

I don't disagree with what you say, they can carry leprosy. I'm not sure how destructive they are.

Seriously, when is the last time you heard of anyone dying because of an armadillo, or needed immediate hospital attention after an encounter? When is the last time you've read about an armadillo attack? And who in America gets leprosy anyway?

CNN reports only about 150 ppl in the US get it, and that's only after international travel.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/04/27...osy/index.html

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Originally Posted by captainjack0000

I don't disagree with what you say, they can carry leprosy. I'm not sure how destructive they are.

Seriously, when is the last time you heard of anyone dying because of an armadillo, or needed immediate hospital attention after an encounter? When is the last time you've read about an armadillo attack? And who in America gets leprosy anyway?

CNN reports only about 150 ppl in the US get it, and that's only after international travel.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/04/27...osy/index.html

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How many people in the US do you hear about getting rabies? Just because it rarely happens doesn't dismiss it as a valid concern.

I vote for a dumb people roundup.

Lmao some you just dont get it. The reason you have to kill the deer with cwd is because it is so contagious and if you dont be proactive to cut off the spreading chance it can wipe out thousands of hoofed animals fast. Do some cwd homework youll see what im talking about. And for you guys that keep saying its not over population its human expansion, your just splitting hairs. Do you think your gonna stop human expansion? Or infringing on habitats?. Remember your stances next time you go camping? Or hiking or for that matter stay in your house all together that at one time was land that belonged to critters. Your hypocrits to your own points if you are human. Look if the rattler is being eaten and used then theres no problem with it. We arent talking about people going into pet stores and whackin ball pythons. We are talking about an abundant supply of a resource. Get over it. Its time for lunch so im gonna go enjoy a burger made from meat from a cow that was kept in horrible conditions and shot in the head with a bolt gun. Or maybe some bbq from a pig that was bled out alive and hung or i might have some chicken that was raised in over crowded holding areas while they walk over the dead chickens that couldnt stand up anymore. That free roaming rattlesnake doesnt sound too bad now does it?

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Lmao some you just dont get it. The reason you have to kill the deer with cwd is because it is so contagious and if you dont be proactive to cut off the spreading chance it can wipe out thousands of hoofed animals fast. Do some cwd homework youll see what im talking about. And for you guys that keep saying its not over population its human expansion, your just splitting hairs. Do you think your gonna stop human expansion? Or infringing on habitats?. Remember your stances next time you go camping? Or hiking or for that matter stay in your house all together that at one time was land that belonged to critters. Your hypocrits to your own points if you are human. Look if the rattler is being eaten and used then theres no problem with it. We arent talking about people going into pet stores and whackin ball pythons. We are talking about an abundant supply of a resource. Get over it. Its time for lunch so im gonna go enjoy a burger made from meat from a cow that was kept in horrible conditions and shot in the head with a bolt gun. Or maybe some bbq from a pig that was bled out alive and hung or i might have some chicken that was raised in over crowded holding areas while they walk over the dead chickens that couldnt stand up anymore. That free roaming rattlesnake doesnt sound too bad now does it?

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So because Im human Im a hypocrite for thinking the mass killing of rattlesnakes is wrong? I dont understand your logic. Because there is an abundance of them makes it right? There is a huge demand for cow meat, cows bred specifically to be eaten. If they want to go kill thousands of rattlesnakes they should breed them to do that then. Not take animals from the wild bring them into captivity to be tortured and killed. Im not justifying the way we kill the animals we eat at all just dont see a comparison.
As far as camping goes I know Im not being destructive in anyway including killing what already lives there. So my stance is If I see a rattlesnake Ill let it be. Unfortunately there are hicks on tv doing it for show.

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Originally Posted by Reptilecam

If they want to go kill thousands of rattlesnakes they should breed them to do that then. Not take animals from the wild bring them into captivity to be tortured and killed.

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So are you saying you'd be ok with the rattlesnake round ups if the snakes were bred for that specific reason?:rolleyes:

If you meant that they should be specifically bred and raised for meat, I think that's an avenue you would have to pursue yourself...I just don't see it as an economically gainful industry after you take space, labor, feeding, and precaution/insurance into account.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

So are you saying you'd be ok with the rattlesnake round ups if the snakes were bred for that specific reason?:rolleyes:

If you meant that they should be specifically bred and raised for meat, I think that's an avenue you would have to pursue yourself...I just don't see it as an economically gainful industry after you take space, labor, feeding, and precaution/insurance into account.

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I dont like the killing of snakes either way. Would I support it no, but it would be better then taking wild populations and doing it. In no way would I ever eat rattlesnake or support the killing of them. Im simply comparing to his point of view that its another animal to eat because he supports it and compares it to cows. You misread what I was saying.

Yes, the root of the conversation was about the TV show Rattlesnake Republic.

Just for the record I don't see myself as a tree hugging PETA vegan. I don't think killing an animal is inherently wrong. The line being drawn here is between needless killing and acceptable limits.

The other line as you define it falls between overpopulation and human expansion. I'm arguing that the term "overpopulation" is a misnomer. It frames the issue in a manner that suggests the animal population is out of balance and humans (or some other force) should be put into place to regain the species balance.

Human expansion, my preferred term, frames it as though the abundance of a species is a symptom of a human generated problem. When we cull the herd, we address the symptom, not the source.

Do I think I am going to stop human expansion? Well, not me individually. I'm no superhero. There is a mountain of political and social underpinnings to human expansion. But I do not accept that human expansion is an inevitability.

I am a hypocrite in some ways. We all are. My use of a well worn trail tacitly approves some level of soil compaction (natural habitat destruction) is okay. The apartment I live in destroyed natural habitat. Can I safely divorce myself of culpability because I did not build the structure myself? You begin to enter a gray area. At some level, every time we create human habitat we take it from a different species.

But again, for me, the point is how you frame the issue. You call it splitting hairs, but for me it is a huge different, especially in the light of the mountain of political and social underpinnings involved in any of these operations. The devil is in the details.

The other point is that you must be an idiot if you plan to live anywhere near 'wilderness' and not have some human-animal interactions.

How in the hell do you raise an animal for food. Animals are animals just because one is penned its entire life and one isnt means nothing. And you obviouslly are getting your views in the way of your knowledge cause there is a huge market for rattlesnake meat and not to mention alot goes to homeless shelters and churches.

I don't think I should comment on the TV show as I haven't seen it.

How does it compare to any other hunting or fishing show?

Is it about rattlesnake roundups specifically or just guys that hunt rattlesnake?