Which line of pastel would you say he is?

Me and my partner were wondering exactly which line of pastel our little boy is. He was sold as a 'pastel' without clarification, but this was at a pet store, so it didn't really bother us.

Here's a picture of him:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../Pastel1-1.png

He has quite bright yellow on his sides, that dulls a bit at the top, and a high amount of blushing.

Looks like a pretty pastel to me. I don't think he has any other morphs but that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

Looks like a pretty pastel to me. I don't think he has any other morphs but that's just my opinion.

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I don't doubt that. He is just a pastel, just wondering if someone can tell whether it's a lemon pastel, or other line, etc...

Lines are constantly crossed and nearly impossible to determine with out knowing up front. Honestly it doesn't matter at all (at least with pastels) as all of the lines have both good and bad examples.

Its impossible to tell. The fact it was a pet store pickup i would say its just a run of the mill jungle pastel. Pet stores buy the cheapest priced animals they can find. Good lookin animal though.

"Mutt" pastel. ;)

Unless you buy a selectively bred pastel from the person who produced the line, or someone who has been METICULOUS about preserving it, then it's 'just a pastel'.

Lemon pastels were selectively bred by NERD for low blushing, and bright yellow color. Graziani bred his pastels for extreme blushing.
Breed a lemon or Graziani pastel to a punch of normals or other morphs that don't possess those traits, and what you get are no longer lemon or Graziani pastels...they're 'just pastels'. People like to claim the name for the animals they produce in this fashion, but a good hard look will reveal the truth.

Not that there's anything wrong with 'just pastels'--some of them can be very nice, they just haven't been selectively bred for any specific traits.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

"Mutt" pastel. ;)

Unless you buy a selectively bred pastel from the person who produced the line, or someone who has been METICULOUS about preserving it, then it's 'just a pastel'.

Lemon pastels were selectively bred by NERD for low blushing, and bright yellow color. Graziani bred his pastels for extreme blushing.
Breed a lemon or Graziani pastel to a punch of normals or other morphs that don't possess those traits, and what you get are no longer lemon or Graziani pastels...they're 'just pastels'. People like to claim the name for the animals they produce in this fashion, but a good hard look will reveal the truth.

Not that there's anything wrong with 'just pastels'--some of them can be very nice, they just haven't been selectively bred for any specific traits.

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The originals were bred for low blushing, but then he started to see some with higher blushing and started line breeding those, to discover the fader gene.

My male is one generation removed from NERD and confirmed by Kevin. I checked with him that he did sell my male's sire to the breeder that I acquired him from. Kevin's also seen pictures of my male and his daughter and thinks that they both may be fader, and in his opinion are confirmed NERD lemons. More breeding will be required to draw any definitive conclusions.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

"Mutt" pastel. ;)

Lemon pastels were selectively bred by NERD for low blushing, and bright yellow color. Graziani bred his pastels for extreme blushing.
Breed a lemon or Graziani pastel to a punch of normals or other morphs that don't possess those traits, and what you get are no longer lemon or Graziani pastels...they're 'just pastels'. People like to claim the name for the animals they produce in this fashion, but a good hard look will reveal the truth

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So you are saying that mixing lemon pastel with any other morph removes the tag lemon pastel from the animal?

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Originally Posted by bman123

So you are saying that mixing lemon pastel with any other morph removes the tag lemon pastel from the animal?

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I believe the genes from the darker normal ball python would mix in with the lemon pastel genes and might make it darker or with less blushing. Only if you breed two lemon pastel's together can you really be 100% sure you are selling balls from the lemon-pastel line. Brian Gundy made a video a year or two ago about how when he bred one of his mojaves to a really dark normal girl, he produced a much darker looking mojave clutch rather than the previous sire which was pretty light. No idea if this is always the case, though.

I think there are a lot of genes in play that we dont even know about, which is why theres so much variation even just within the pastel gene.

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Originally Posted by bman123

So you are saying that mixing lemon pastel with any other morph removes the tag lemon pastel from the animal?

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Mixing it with any other pastel does.

I will start my own thread sorry

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Originally Posted by bman123

So you are saying that mixing lemon pastel with any other morph removes the tag lemon pastel from the animal?

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Possibly not in the first generation, but definitely after a few. They were bred to look the way they do, it's not just a single gene like the pastel gene itself--if you start breeding them to animals that don't have those characteristics, you aren't going to have lemon pastel offspring. Breed them to ordinary normals for a few generations, and you won't be able to tell they came from lemon pastel lines.

It doesn't matter whether you breed them to other pastels--the pastel is just a single gene, but all of the other traits are controlled by a constellation of other genes. To preserve the lemon pastel look, you'd have to breed them to snakes that are as yellow as possible, with as little brown as possible, and have bold markings. If you bred a lemon pastel to a super-dark high blush normal, you might not even be able to tell the sire was a lemon pastel when you look at the offspring. They'd pick up mom's other traits.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Breeding a Lemon pastel to any other normal or morph should not change the fact that the resulting pastels are lemon pastels. Pastels in all lines can vary greatly with some darker or more blushed than others. If what is being said is true then any Lemon pastel designer morph (bumble bee, pastave, etc) is no longer considered Lemon pastel and could not produce Lemon pastel offspring.

I do agree that if you mix Lemon pastel with other pastel lines then you wont know what you are getting in the offspring.