Are we overfeeding?

This is a subject I often think long and hard about. I personally feed my balls on a 7 day schedule from the start. The only ones I ever feed with more frequency are females that have bred in order to put weight back on them- though admittedly, I have been rethinking this part as well. So, here is my concern. Many people feed younger balls on a 4-5 day schedule up until a certain weight and then switch them over to a 7-10 day. Some people feed them whenever they "look" or "act" hungry. How do we know that our snakes aren't being overfed? With some species, feeding with this sort of frequency has proven to be downright destructive over a rather short period of time. While this isn't the case with ball pythons, I can't help but to think about the long term effects of such frequent feeding.

I can see where breeders would want to feed a little extra and get their snakes up to healthy breeding weights over a shorter period of time, but I'm not convinced that it's in the better interest of the animals. I can't understand why people who are strictly keepers would feel any inclination to feed more than once a week-in this case, all more frequent feedings amount to is money spent unnecessarily, IMO. I have yet to see a snake, let alone a ball python, kept on a 7-10 day feeding schedule and look unhealthy because of it; but I have seen plenty of ball pythons that look rather "chunky" or proportionately larger than I believe they should be.

I've also heard the argument that a snake won't eat unless it's hungry, which is ludicrous at best. There are very, very few animals, that given the opportunity, will not overeat. Also, just because an animal will eat doesn't mean it should eat.

Now here come the questions...

What advantage or benefit to more frequent feedings is there other than the snakes will grow faster?

What long term studies/observations have been made that would support more frequent feedings?

If such studies/observations have not been done, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution and feed less frequently than 4-5 days as the snakes are growing?

Is it possible, that with such frequent feedings, that we are acting in our own best interest rather than the animals' best interest?

I feed my young BP's every 4 days, then switch to an 8 day schedule. They grow at a decent rate but not in huge jumps. If I were over feeding I would think that I would start to get flabby snakes and maybe even see bigger jumps in weight. Do I have any emperical data to back this up? No but there also isn't any data proving that it is harmful either at this point. I kept exact feeding records along with other things on my iHerp account as well as on my own data base. Only time can tell us what will happen. If I start to see a trend that my current feeding schedule is causing issues then I will change it.

I have absolutely nothing to back up my opinion (I'm stressing opinion here, since I'm not exactly experienced enough to really post on something like this) but ball pythons are not like most species of snakes. Most snakes are opportunistic eaters, which is why boas have a tendency to become obese. However, I have never personally seen an overweight ball python, and I've also witnessed my snakes personally stick their nose up at food even a week after feeding them. I'm convinced because of the behavior I take as "not hungry" that they will not eat if they aren't hungry (even when offered live). Even some of my younger, non-breedable ones have skipped a meal for a week or so, then go back to normal after that. However, I could probably feed my boas daily and they'd take it without thinking twice.

Again, this is simply my opinion, ball pythons aren't the best test subjects for something like this because they are pretty much the pet rocks of the snake world. I'm curious to see what others have to say, especially the people with many years of experience with other snakes as well.

I personally only offer food every 7 days, occasionally I'll go every 5 days for a few weeks for my smaller ones, but like you said, it just seems like a waste of money to offer food that often if you don't need to. Good question though.

What advantage or benefit to more frequent feedings is there other than the snakes will grow faster?
Well obviously the ability to breed sooner or that bigger snakes are worth more.
What long term studies/observations have been made that would support more frequent feedings?
I read a while back that snakes actually need a downtime without food in order to be able to grow, however I have not heard of any studies to prove that
If such studies/observations have not been done, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution and feed less frequently than 4-5 days as the snakes are growing?
I stick to the once every 7 day diet as well so I would agree that it is probably better to work off the 4-5 day schedual. However, I also remember Brian B. from BHB doing a study on corn snakes by feeding 3 sets of snakes different amounts or size of food, one being fed bigger meals more frequently, another being fed small meals but more frequently, or another being fed a big meal once a week to see which one grew faster and what not. As far as the well being of the snake goes I dont know how that will turn out.
I dont think there has been that much study on how long the snake lives or what illness or negative effects it later might have had from being overfed, but I would also be interested to know.
Is it possible, that with such frequent feedings, that we are acting in our own best interest rather than the animals' best interest?
Very Possible I think it definately needs to be taken into consideration.

I feed mine every 7 days no matter what size. Theyre all healthy weights. Ya some start "acting" hungry at day 5 or 6 but i feed them every 7. Just my 2 cents.

Only thing I can say is that for the majority of any animal, being overfed or overwieght for a long period of time can significantly decrease life expectancy.

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Originally Posted by Domepiece

Only thing I can say is that for the majority of any animal, being overfed or overwieght significantly decreases life expectancy.

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Do you know if this has been proven? or where you got this information? Not that I doubt it but would be interested to read into it.

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Originally Posted by Reptilecam

Do you know if this has been proven? or where you got this information? Not that I doubt it but would be interested to read into it.

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lol, it's just plain science and yes many studies have been done on obesity. I'm not going to do your homework for you but it shouldnt be too hard for you to find some scientific studies on the matter. It has been proven with many different animals, yes. There are many negative health side effects to being obese that would lower life expectancy in many animals including humans. Plus the general breakdown of food in any living creature produces toxins and oxidants into living systems so with more food intake and obesity comes more stress on the living system (organs). I'm not saying this is the case with ball pythons but in general this is true.

I dont feel like you can compare snakes to every other animal though. They eat one meal then go hide out for a few days then they are off again. They break down material so much differently then other mammals that have to eat every day. Yes I know obesity isnt healthy I dont need science to tell me that. But why would he bring up this thread if he didnt also question whether or not its unhealthy for balls.

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Originally Posted by Reptilecam

I dont feel like you can compare snakes to every other animal though. They eat one meal then go hide out for a few days then they are off again. They break down material so much differently then other mammals that have to eat every day. Yes I know obesity isnt healthy I dont need science to tell me that. But why would he bring up this thread if he didnt also question whether or not its unhealthy for balls.

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Im just throwing a blanket statement about animals, obesity, and the breakdown of food in general, I dont know the science on how it affects snakes at all. Snakes may digest food differently than other animals but the basic biological systems and internal functioning of cells is essentially the same in MOST animals whether or not they have very different physiology or anatomy. Its just my belief that any animal that is obese is at risk of negative health effects. I feed my snakes every 7 days and they dont seem to be overweight at all, so I dont think feeding snakes every week will cause negative health effects but I'm not a experimental researcher either, so..... I think that someone would have to consistantly and intentionally powerfeed a ball python in order for it to become obese

Opinion/speculation:


Depends on the individual snake for me. Some of our hatchlings have taken off right out of the egg on a 7 day schedule. Others take a little longer, and don't necessarily do as well on only 7 days. You also have to take into account the size of meal, and not just frequency. If I have a consistent eater, but it will only take a prey item that is half the size of the prey item offered to its sibling, I may feed on a 5 day schedule so that it still gets the proper amount of food in the long run.

One benefit to feeding smaller snakes more frequently than adults, aside from goals of breeding, could also be to prevent any complications if that snake decides to fast over winter. I would much rather have a snake that has gotten up to a safe "fasting" weight than feed less frequently due to fears of obesity (which I also don't think I have seen with BPs... or at least not with ours), and end up with a snake that fasts for whatever reason and doesn't have adequate reserves.

You would think they would eat once hungry while fasting, but this really isn't always the case, and they are not the only species to fast/hibernate/brumate and refuse food. Its a different state entirely, and I want to limit any chances of a sick/malnourished snake :)

Ive never seen a ball python that i would consider obese. Theyre stout short bodied terrestrial snakes. Theyre gunna be hefty lol

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

This is a subject I often think long and hard about. I personally feed my balls on a 7 day schedule from the start. The only ones I ever feed with more frequency are females that have bred in order to put weight back on them- though admittedly, I have been rethinking this part as well. So, here is my concern. Many people feed younger balls on a 4-5 day schedule up until a certain weight and then switch them over to a 7-10 day. Some people feed them whenever they "look" or "act" hungry. How do we know that our snakes aren't being overfed? With some species, feeding with this sort of frequency has proven to be downright destructive over a rather short period of time. While this isn't the case with ball pythons, I can't help but to think about the long term effects of such frequent feeding.

I can see where breeders would want to feed a little extra and get their snakes up to healthy breeding weights over a shorter period of time, but I'm not convinced that it's in the better interest of the animals. I can't understand why people who are strictly keepers would feel any inclination to feed more than once a week-in this case, all more frequent feedings amount to is money spent unnecessarily, IMO. I have yet to see a snake, let alone a ball python, kept on a 7-10 day feeding schedule and look unhealthy because of it; but I have seen plenty of ball pythons that look rather "chunky" or proportionately larger than I believe they should be.

I've also heard the argument that a snake won't eat unless it's hungry, which is ludicrous at best. There are very, very few animals, that given the opportunity, will not overeat. Also, just because an animal will eat doesn't mean it should eat.

Now here come the questions...

What advantage or benefit to more frequent feedings is there other than the snakes will grow faster?

What long term studies/observations have been made that would support more frequent feedings?

If such studies/observations have not been done, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution and feed less frequently than 4-5 days as the snakes are growing?

Is it possible, that with such frequent feedings, that we are acting in our own best interest rather than the animals' best interest?

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This reminded me of a thread that I posted a few months ago about a study that was done on snakes. Keep in mind that the study was done by a pharmaceutical research company, so most of the text is talking about the possible benefits to humans. They also are not specific about what kind of pythons the studies were done on, only that they got a "box of pythons".

What intrigued me the most was the physiological changes noted after feeding:

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When they swallow that next rat or bird — or in some cases deer — something extraordinary happens. Their metabolism ratchets up more than 40-fold, and their organs immediately start growing in size to get the digesting done. The heart alone grows a startling 40 percent or more within three days.

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The first surprise: A digesting python's blood gets so full of fat it looks milky. A type of fat called triglycerides increased 50-fold within a day. In people, high triglyceride levels are very dangerous. But the python heart was burning those fats so rapidly for fuel that they didn't have time to clog anything up, Leinwand said.

The second surprise: A key enzyme that protects the heart from damage increased in python blood right after it ate, while a heart-damaging compound was repressed.

Then the team found that a specific combination of three fatty acids in the blood helped promote the healthy heart growth. If they injected fasting pythons with that mixture, those snakes' hearts grew the same way that a fed python's does.

But did it only work for snakes? Lead researcher Cecilia Riquelme dropped some plasma from a fed python into a lab dish containing the heart cells of rats — and they grew bigger, too. Sure enough, injecting living mice made their hearts grow in an apparently healthy way as well.

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Since they aren't specific on the species of python that they tested or the frequency of feeding, I can only surmise that a similar reaction happens in all snakes.

While the initial organ and blood data looks promising, let's apply it to a snake on a 5 day feeding schedule. That would mean that the snake is spending at least 4 out of 7days a week, maybe more, with an enlarged heart and fatty filled blood. It only stands to reason, that if the snake is not allowed adequate time to fully process the fats and nutrients, and allow their physiology to return to a normal state, then potential health problems could arise. Thinking about this a little further, if you combine this internal stress with potential external stresses such as handling or husbandry issues, it could be a possible explanation to some of those "my snake suddenly passed away, and I don't know why threads".

Here is the link to the original thread that I posted. The link to the original article, posted on Yahoo News, doesn't work any more, but the text is posted in the thread:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hey-just-might...

I am about half tempted to contact the Hiberna Corp and see if they would be willing to publish the study data on the snakes. I am interested to see what particular pythons they used, the feeding frequency, and the amount of time it took for the snakes physiology to return to normal after feeding.

It's not really clear to me whether this post is about overfeeding, or obesity.

Hatchling ball pythons don't get obese--they just grow bigger. I've certainly never seen an obese hatchling.

I have seen obese adults. I had one female who so avidly took large rats weekly (she was a 3500 gram girl) that her weight went up to 3900 grams, and she started showing signs of obesity (showing skin between the scales, etc).
So, I cut back her feeding schedule, and she lost the weight--no big deal. She reached her overweight status a couple of months before the start of the breeding season.

It's absolutely possible for adult ball pythons to become obese--much more likely if they are NOT breeding, but possible even for breeders. Obese ball pythons don't breed well--the girl in question slugged out on me that year. The next year, coming in with a more modest weight, she had a good clutch again.

I now pay more attention to my females' weight gain. Very consistent feeders are most at risk for obesity, naturally enough. It's simple enough to reduce the frequency of feeding and the size of prey offered to them.

You asked what benefit their was in feeding on a 5 day schedule for baby ball pythons, apart from the snakes' growing faster. Well...that IS the benefit, and the only apparent effect.

My personal theory on this is that ball pythons have about 3 or 4 years to really reach their full adult size. While they continue to grow after this period, their growth slows to a crawl, particularly if they are breeding.
As a result, if you want a big ball python, grow them big in the first 4 years. If anyone has any evidence to contradict this, please tell me.

I have a young 172g BP and I just switched him over to F/T 40g rats, which were the smallest I could find after I learned they are more nuitricious and will make them grow faster. I just want him to be big, not for breeding reasons.

I know according to the 15% rule, the 40g rats are about 14g too large, but the girth of the rats are about equal to the thickest part of the body, and he ate them 2 weeks in a row.

I made him not eat for a week, after he ate a large live mouse, prior to the switch, and I offered the 2nd rat 7 days later. He ate them both times after about 45 minutes. The first time he ate it a little faster than the second time, but probably because he was really hungry.

Should I stick to the 7 day schedule since they are 14g over, or can I try every 5 days if he eats them?

So can a 172g BP eat a 40g rat every 5 days, or stick to 7 days since that's a fairly large rat for the young snake?

I personally would just check how long it's taking him to process them--if he's defecated, he's obviously ready for more food. :) (Not doing so doesn't necessarily mean he isn't, but it's one indicator).

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Now here come the questions...

What advantage or benefit to more frequent feedings is there other than the snakes will grow faster?

My personal opinion, based on observation, is that the only advantage to more frequent feedings is to get the snake to mature size in the quickest time possible. You will often hear this referred to as power feeding. My question is, what is the advantage to growing faster? In the wild, I think baby and juvi BPs are programed to eat as often as opportunity allows so they can grow larger faster. The advantage? They make it off the bottom rung of the food chain faster, and they reach breeding age more quickly which insures they will be able to pass on their genetic material. How does this translate to our captive breed BPs? While the food chain theory doesn't really apply, the breeding theory does, provided you're a breeder. If you're a collector or pet owner, I'm not sure I see the advantage in power feeding.

What long term studies/observations have been made that would support more frequent feedings?

Brian at BHB did a short term study, but he used corn snakes which have a much different activity level, and my guess is, metabolism than our ball pythons. I'm not sure much can be concluded by the uncontrolled test he did. Other than that, I'm not aware of any testing that used BPs as subjects.

If such studies/observations have not been done, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution and feed less frequently than 4-5 days as the snakes are growing?

My personal opinion is yes, but I think there is considerable room for individual interpretation on this point. I think most owners do what they do based on their own experience. I would be hesitant to tell someone with healthy snakes that they've been doing it wrong.

Is it possible, that with such frequent feedings, that we are acting in our own best interest rather than the animals' best interest?

Again, my opinion is absolutely! Especially in the case of power feeding for breeding purposes.

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Originally Posted by Reptilecam

I also remember Brian B. from BHB doing a study on corn snakes by feeding 3 sets of snakes different amounts or size of food, one being fed bigger meals more frequently, another being fed small meals but more frequently, or another being fed a big meal once a week to see which one grew faster and what not. As far as the wellbeing of the snake goes I dont know how that will turn out.

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What Brian found out is that the corn snake group that was fed large meals weekly grew more rapidly than the other two groups. (Small frequent meals and medium meals weekly) Again, his experiment was done on corn snakes and I'm not sure it fully translates to ball pythons. However, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that if you feed a snake more food, it will grow more...

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Originally Posted by Reptilecam

I dont feel like you can compare snakes to every other animal though.

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I don't think we can even compare BPs to every other snake. The activity levels are very different between the species.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Ive never seen a ball python that i would consider obese. Theyre stout short bodied terrestrial snakes. Theyre gunna be hefty lol

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I have seen some very obese adult females. Every snake is different and some are garbage disposals.


Bottom line, I think we feed our captive animals more on an annual basis than the average BP would find in the wild. I have no facts to back this opinion, but if you successfully feed your snake every 7 days, that's 52 feeding per year. With the seasonal changes and challenges these snake face in the wild, I just don't think they feed that often. I could be wrong, but that's my theory.

I think I've well established the fact that I don't keep females and I don't breed. For me this simplifies my feeding issues. I've yet to have a male that didn't maintain a healthy adult weight by eating a small 70-90 gram rat per week. So far I've yet to have one that seemed to need a 100+ gram rat. I like my boys to maintain good muscle tone and have a somewhat athletic look to them.

My 2 pennies...

7 days is fine for me. I personally don't care about getting them ready [B]maybe[B] 1 season sooner. I don't care about the additional costs, but feeding every sunday is convienent for me and my snakes all stay healthy. Thats all I care about.

To answer your question though, 4-5 days is fine for some, 7 is fine for others. My opinion on the subject is: I'll feed mine my way, you feed yours your way. But I've always fed every 7 days and never have I had a malnourished snake because of it. No reason for me to feed every 5.:gj:

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Originally Posted by Vinny 4

Should I stick to the 7 day schedule since they are 14g over, or can I try every 5 days if he eats them?

So can a 172g BP eat a 40g rat every 5 days, or stick to 7 days since that's a fairly large rat for the young snake?

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As long as he's eating it, and the food bulge is gone before the next feeding, I'd say you're fine offering the larger prey. However, since 40g is ~23% of his body weight, I wouldn't feed any more frequently than 7-day intervals. If you try to feed more often, he'll likely start skipping meals, have extra large defecations (which means he's pooping nutrients instead of using them), and have a higher risk for regurgitation (since he will always have food in him when you handle him). Oh, and feed him what makes him healthy - if you want a big snake, get something other than a male BP.

My guy has been on the 7 day schedule, I won't have a scale till mid week this week. I know that Rat he ate today was over the 15% Likely closer to the 20-25% mark, But with this feeding I will likely switch him to a 10 day cycle then when summer is here go back to a regular 5-7 day cycle.

That's how other Pythons I fostered were fed.

Higher frequency in the Summer months and Less in the Winter.

Sure i'm sure you could follow a BP in the wild and see that they likely eat once or twice a month during the winter months... but I don't want a pissy snake haha

But even the Tic I had fostered was fed a large meal once a month. and he seemed happy