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  • 03-01-2012, 03:18 AM
    apple2
    Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    OK, so I know that a lot of you on here are looking to breed for the first time soon so I thought I'd put together a guide to help you guys along!

    1. Make sure your BPs are ready to breed!

    Most people agree that the minimum weight to start breeding a female is 1500 grams. Males can sometimes be bred at 500 grams, but it's usually best to wait until they're about 750-800 grams.

    2. Make sure YOU are ready to breed!

    Breeding BPs is a big responsibility. You need to be sure that you have room for the new babies (There can be up to 12 per clutch). You also need to be sure your spouse/boy or girlfriend is OK with the idea. Be sure to read up on hatchling care and other aspects in more detail than is provided in this guide.

    3. Make those decisions!

    There are a few decisions to make when breeding. These decisions are very important and play a big role in how your babies will turn out.

    1. What morphs are you going to breed?
    Ball pythons come in many different colors and patterns. Make sure you choose the right ones to get the babies you want! A genetic calculator is available at
    http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

    2. Maternal or Incubator?
    Maternal incubation is when you let the mother BP stay with her eggs and keep them warm. You can also use an incubator to do this. Both ways have their pros and cons. Read up on both and decide which way is right for you and your snakes.

    3. What to do with the hatchlings?
    After breeding you are going to have 3-12 more snakes. Decide what you are going to do with them (Sell them, keep them, etc) before you breed. That way you aren't struggling about what to do when you have eggs or baby snakes.

    4. Get what you need!
    Breeding is more than just throwing a couple of snakes in together. You're going to need to make a few purchases to make sure the little snakes are happy and healthy. You will need:

    - A male and female BP (Obviously)
    - A rack with at least 6 tubs
    - At least 6 hatchling tubs (About the size of a shoebox each)
    - Appropriate heating for the hatchlings
    - Amenities for the tubs (Water bowls, hides, paper towels, etc)
    - An incubator (If you are choosing artificial incubation)
    - Substrate for the incubator. Most people use vermiculite or perlite with a light diffuser on top to hold the eggs in place. (A light diffuser is one of those grid-like things that you find on lamps in older office buildings)
    - A 'Breeding Tub'. Some people use the male or female's cage for this. Others buy a separate enclosure for breeding. Again, this is up to you. Make sure it is heated as they will be in there for a while.

    5. Lets breed!

    Take your female BP and place it in the breeding tub. I usually leave her in there for a couple of hours so that she can adjust. Then, put the male in with her. Sometimes you will see them lock. Locking is when the male and females' tails are together, on top of each other. If you do see a lock, you can take the male out as soon as he's finished. You will put him back in every 2-4 days until you see signs of an ovulation.

    6. Is my snake ovulating?

    When your female BP ovulates, you are going to want to stop pairing her with the male. Signs of an ovulation are as follows:

    - Glowing, a drastic color change when she is nearing ovulation
    - Many female BPs lie on their back when they are nearing ovulation.
    - Growing. Your BP will grow wider and thicker.

    When your BP finally ovulates it's pretty hard to miss. She will look like she swallowed a gigantic rat. She will lay eggs in about 45 days.

    7. EGGS!!!

    Getting your first clutch is exciting! However there are a few steps to go through before you can celebrate.

    1. Take the female away from her eggs. It may seem mean, but you need to do a couple of things before you can let her back. Most females are very protective. They will strike at you quickly if you get anywhere near their babies. I normally distract her with one hand, moving it out of they way as she strikes, and then grabbing her (Not too hard!) from behind the neck with the other. Carefully unwind her from around the eggs and put her somewhere else.

    2. Check to make sure she is done laying. Feel her stomach and search for any egg-like lumps. If you find any, put her right back in the cage near the other eggs. Wait until she is done laying and then go back to step one.

    3. Check for slugs! Slugs are pretty easy to distinguish. They are small, brownish hard eggs. These eggs are not fertilized and should be removed. Just take them out and throw them away.

    4. Candle the eggs! In a dark room, take a flashlight and shine it into each of the eggs. If you see little blood vessels in the egg, it is a good one. If you don't, it is not a good egg. Remove it only if it is safe to do so. If it is attached in any way to other eggs, DO NOT REMOVE IT. Doing so will likely damage the eggs around it. If it is free, carefully remove it and dispose of it. Remember, eggs come in all different shapes and sizes. Just because an egg is different doesn't mean it won't produce a healthy baby.

    5. Put the eggs either into your incubator or back where they were in the tank. The incubator should be set at 88-90 degrees with humidity at about 93%. After moving/replacing the eggs, place the female back into her enclosure and close the lid.

    8. Feeding

    Some females eat during breeding, and others don't. I usually offer food to my females while breeding. If they don't accept it, they probably won't eat during the season. Try one more time and then stop offering food. If you are doing maternal incubation, I recommend not offering food when she is with her eggs.

    9. Collapsing, Pipping, Hatching!

    BP eggs hatch about 56 days after they are laid. Before they hatch they will produce condensation. The eggs will then appear to collapse. This is normal, so don't worry. After that the babies will start to come out of the eggs. Some breeders 'cut' the eggs. This is when they make a small incision in the side of the egg both to help the hatchling get out and to see what is in the egg. I do not recommend cutting on your first try. If you do wish to, I recommend having someone more experienced do it for you. Otherwise you risk hurting your snakes. Do not try to help the snake out of its egg. It may take time, but they will usually do it on their own. If they appear to be having trouble, give it a couple of days and then call someone to help get them out. You can try to do it yourself, but you may risk hurting the baby snakes.

    10. Baby BP!

    After the snakes hatch, you should remove them from their enclosure. Wash them off with water (No soap) as they are usually covered in egg, and place them in their tubs.

    Congratulations! You have successfully bred your ball python!

    Please feel free to ask for help on this forum. Breeding is no small task even for an experienced owner. Just ask any question you have. Remember, the only stupid question is the one not asked.

    Thanks for reading and hope this helps!

    - Apple2
  • 03-01-2012, 04:15 AM
    Raverthug
    Great write up. Sticky worthy
  • 03-01-2012, 09:20 AM
    AdamF
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    Best Breeding guide ever! Succinct and complete.
    Thank you!



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by apple2 View Post
    OK, so I know that a lot of you on here are looking to breed for the first time soon so I thought I'd put together a guide to help you guys along!

    1. Make sure your BPs are ready to breed!

    Most people agree that the minimum weight to start breeding a female is 1500 grams. Males can sometimes be bred at 500 grams, but it's usually best to wait until they're about 750-800 grams.

    2. Make sure YOU are ready to breed!

    Breeding BPs is a big responsibility. You need to be sure that you have room for the new babies (There can be up to 12 per clutch). You also need to be sure your spouse/boy or girlfriend is OK with the idea. Be sure to read up on hatchling care and other aspects in more detail than is provided in this guide.

    3. Make those decisions!

    There are a few decisions to make when breeding. These decisions are very important and play a big role in how your babies will turn out.

    1. What morphs are you going to breed?
    Ball pythons come in many different colors and patterns. Make sure you choose the right ones to get the babies you want! A genetic calculator is available at
    http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

    2. Maternal or Incubator?
    Maternal incubation is when you let the mother BP stay with her eggs and keep them warm. You can also use an incubator to do this. Both ways have their pros and cons. Read up on both and decide which way is right for you and your snakes.

    3. What to do with the hatchlings?
    After breeding you are going to have 3-12 more snakes. Decide what you are going to do with them (Sell them, keep them, etc) before you breed. That way you aren't struggling about what to do when you have eggs or baby snakes.

    4. Get what you need!
    Breeding is more than just throwing a couple of snakes in together. You're going to need to make a few purchases to make sure the little snakes are happy and healthy. You will need:

    - A male and female BP (Obviously)
    - A rack with at least 6 tubs
    - At least 6 hatchling tubs (About the size of a shoebox each)
    - Appropriate heating for the hatchlings
    - Amenities for the tubs (Water bowls, hides, paper towels, etc)
    - An incubator (If you are choosing artificial incubation)
    - Substrate for the incubator. Most people use vermiculite or perlite with a light diffuser on top to hold the eggs in place. (A light diffuser is one of those grid-like things that you find on lamps in older office buildings)
    - A 'Breeding Tub'. Some people use the male or female's cage for this. Others buy a separate enclosure for breeding. Again, this is up to you. Make sure it is heated as they will be in there for a while.

    5. Lets breed!

    Take your female BP and place it in the breeding tub. I usually leave her in there for a couple of hours so that she can adjust. Then, put the male in with her. Sometimes you will see them lock. Locking is when the male and females' tails are together, on top of each other. If you do see a lock, you can take the male out as soon as he's finished. You will put him back in every 2-4 days until you see signs of an ovulation.

    6. Is my snake ovulating?

    When your female BP ovulates, you are going to want to stop pairing her with the male. Signs of an ovulation are as follows:

    - Glowing, a drastic color change when she is nearing ovulation
    - Many female BPs lie on their back when they are nearing ovulation.
    - Growing. Your BP will grow wider and thicker.

    When your BP finally ovulates it's pretty hard to miss. She will look like she swallowed a gigantic rat. She will lay eggs in about 45 days.

    7. EGGS!!!

    Getting your first clutch is exciting! However there are a few steps to go through before you can celebrate.

    1. Take the female away from her eggs. It may seem mean, but you need to do a couple of things before you can let her back. Most females are very protective. They will strike at you quickly if you get anywhere near their babies. I normally distract her with one hand, moving it out of they way as she strikes, and then grabbing her (Not too hard!) from behind the neck with the other. Carefully unwind her from around the eggs and put her somewhere else.

    2. Check to make sure she is done laying. Feel her stomach and search for any egg-like lumps. If you find any, put her right back in the cage near the other eggs. Wait until she is done laying and then go back to step one.

    3. Check for slugs! Slugs are pretty easy to distinguish. They are small, brownish hard eggs. These eggs are not fertilized and should be removed. Just take them out and throw them away.

    4. Candle the eggs! In a dark room, take a flashlight and shine it into each of the eggs. If you see little blood vessels in the egg, it is a good one. If you don't, it is not a good egg. Remove it only if it is safe to do so. If it is attached in any way to other eggs, DO NOT REMOVE IT. Doing so will likely damage the eggs around it. If it is free, carefully remove it and dispose of it. Remember, eggs come in all different shapes and sizes. Just because an egg is different doesn't mean it won't produce a healthy baby.

    5. Put the eggs either into your incubator or back where they were in the tank. Reintroduce the female and close the lid.


    8. Feeding

    Some females eat during breeding, and others don't. I usually offer food to my females while breeding. If they don't accept it, they probably won't eat during the season. Try one more time and then stop offering food. If you are doing maternal incubation, I recommend not offering food when she is with her eggs.

    9. Collapsing, Pipping, Hatching!

    BP eggs hatch about 56 days after they are laid. Before they hatch they will produce condensation. The eggs will then appear to collapse. This is normal, so don't worry. After that the babies will start to come out of the eggs. Some breeders 'cut' the eggs. This is when they make a small incision in the side of the egg both to help the hatchling get out and to see what is in the egg. I do not recommend cutting on your first try. If you do wish to, I recommend having someone more experienced do it for you. Otherwise you risk hurting your snakes. Do not try to help the snake out of its egg. It may take time, but they will usually do it on their own. If they appear to be having trouble, give it a couple of days and then call someone to help get them out. You can try to do it yourself, but you may risk hurting the baby snakes.

    10. Baby BP!

    After the snakes hatch, you should remove them from their enclosure. Wash them off with water (No soap) as they are usually covered in egg, and place them in their tubs.

    Congratulations! You have successfully bred your ball python!

    Please feel free to ask for help on this forum. Breeding is no small task even for an experienced owner. Just ask any question you have. Remember, the only stupid question is the one not asked.

    Thanks for reading and hope this helps!

    - Apple2

  • 03-01-2012, 09:35 AM
    Mike41793
    Someone needs to sticky this! Thanks for the writeup apple! I get everything but sometimes all the terms confuse me and i have to remember what order they come and go in... I'll be sure to refer back to this next november! I cant wait :D
  • 03-01-2012, 09:41 AM
    DooLittle
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    Thanks for taking the time to write that up! Informative in a nutshell.
  • 03-01-2012, 12:13 PM
    JulieInNJ
    Great write up! A quick overview that's pretty darned thorough. Nicely done!
  • 03-01-2012, 04:11 PM
    Valentine Pirate
    Good guide! Gets the big picture in good focus, and it leaves room for beginners to have some options :) Sticky worthy indeed
  • 03-01-2012, 04:18 PM
    Akira
    Could you add the best temp to incubate ball python eggs at? I'm kinda surprised at how hard it is to find that lol:oops:
  • 03-01-2012, 04:29 PM
    apple2
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    Wow... Can't believe I forgot to put that in. It's there now.

    EDIT: For some reason I can't edit the first post. Mods, please do it for me :P

    Temps are 88-90 degrees in the incubator.

    TO MODS: EDIT THIS SECTION!!!

    5. Put the eggs either into your incubator or back where they were in the tank. Reintroduce the female and close the lid.

    CHANGE TO

    5. Put the eggs either into your incubator or back where they were in the tank. The incubator should be set at 88-90 degrees with humidity at about 93%. After moving/replacing the eggs, place the female back into her enclosure and close the lid.
  • 03-01-2012, 05:51 PM
    Akira
    Thank you! I thought the temps for corn snake and BP eggs would be different! I kept my corn eggs at 83 last season. Glad I have another incubator :)
  • 03-01-2012, 05:55 PM
    Domepiece
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    Also you should elaborate more about feeding. Building up to breeding you need to supply your females with alot of extra food so they have the proper fat stores to sustain them through the breeding season and eggs..Also I think you should try offering food more than twice before stopping feeding, I dont stop offering until after they refuse 4-5 times and I notice them building. I had one that went off feed for a month and is building and glowing but I could tell she wanted something so I offered and she ate. You got to know your animals and be able to listen to them and what they are telling you. Also from what I have heard females will eat while on the eggs and its probably best to get them eating again soon after they lay otherwise your looking at another two months without food=not good.
  • 03-01-2012, 06:02 PM
    dr del
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    Hi,

    You forgot to mention that if you want the female to eat after you remove eggs for artificial incubation it is important to thoroughly wash her and everything in and around her enclosure.

    This is the main reason people use artificial incubation - you can get her back up to a healthy weight far more quickly.


    dr del
  • 03-01-2012, 06:23 PM
    apple2
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    OK, I'll elaborate more on feeding in the next edit. For some reason I still can't edit the post. Bug?
  • 03-01-2012, 06:59 PM
    dr del
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    Hi,

    Not a bug - our edit window is only 10 minutes from making the post. If you ask any member of staff they can make the changes for you though. :)
  • 03-01-2012, 08:31 PM
    apple2
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    OK, will do. Should have the feeding stuff written tomorrow.
  • 03-01-2012, 08:44 PM
    satomi325
    excellent tips and write up! very helpful indeed.
  • 03-01-2012, 10:36 PM
    Stewart_Reptiles
    Apple I understand you are trying to help and I know you have put time and effort in this however can I ask how much experience you have breeding Ball Pytons and by that I mean hands on experience with actual breeding and not reading online forums or breeder recipes?
  • 03-01-2012, 11:44 PM
    apple2
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    I did an internship at a breeder a few years back and he taught me pretty much everything I know. I got to breed a few of the morphs all the way through and learned a lot under his guidance.

    I know that some of the people on here have more experience, and I am happy to correct any errors in the original post, but thought I'd share what I know and consolidate all of the many "How do I breed" threads into one central location that people can turn to for help.
  • 03-02-2012, 07:30 AM
    rabernet
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    If you're open to constructive critiques - there's a lot about this step that I don't agree with:

    Quote:

    Take your female BP and place it in the breeding tub. I usually leave her in there for a couple of hours so that she can adjust. Then, put the male in with her. Sometimes you will see them lock. Locking is when the male and females' tails are together, on top of each other. If you do see a lock, you can take the male out as soon as he's finished. You will put him back in every 2-4 days until you see signs of an ovulation.
    Females ideally should not be moved. They should be bred in their own tubs, with the males introduced to them once or twice a month, not ever 2-4 days.

    Many breeders will tell you that more often than that is really over-kill.

    Also, you'll hear from many breeders who have had to physically move their facility, and had significant decrease in successful breedings, even if the move was several months before breeding, because the girls just take a lot longer to adapt to being moved, even if they are placed back in their original tubs at the new location.

    It's also why some folks get anxious to buy breeder girls at the beginning of the season, and then get frustrated when those girls don't go for them that first season.

    So moving them into a "breeding tub" makes little sense to me, and I don't personally believe that it's more likely to put a female OFF of breeding than on.

    Hope that helps!
  • 03-02-2012, 10:08 AM
    ball-nut
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rabernet View Post
    If you're open to constructive critiques - there's a lot about this step that I don't agree with:



    Females ideally should not be moved. They should be bred in their own tubs, with the males introduced to them once or twice a month, not ever 2-4 days.

    Many breeders will tell you that more often than that is really over-kill.

    Also, you'll hear from many breeders who have had to physically move their facility, and had significant decrease in successful breedings, even if the move was several months before breeding, because the girls just take a lot longer to adapt to being moved, even if they are placed back in their original tubs at the new location.

    It's also why some folks get anxious to buy breeder girls at the beginning of the season, and then get frustrated when those girls don't go for them that first season.

    So moving them into a "breeding tub" makes little sense to me, and I don't personally believe that it's more likely to put a female OFF of breeding than on.

    Hope that helps!

    Yup had this issue myself this year, in November i moved all pythons into new building but same rack and tubs, i think at most I've got 2 out of 7 females ovy, 4 absorbed follicles and the other still might go if im lucky. The move really threw them all off.

    sent from my phone to the internet to your screen.
  • 03-02-2012, 12:01 PM
    LadyOhh
    A few things I noticed:

    Clutches can be larger than 12.

    Why remove the eggs from a nesting area if you are maternally incubating? This can lead to females not rewrapping around the eggs if they are disturbed too much.

    You made no mention of Themostats to control temperatures. This is critical for the wellbeing of the animals.


    I applaud your effort to condense the information one would need into one big post, but there is a LOT more to it than that.

    It's always the little things.

    :)
  • 03-02-2012, 08:01 PM
    apple2
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    Great, this thread is turning out exactly how I wanted it. People are making suggestions to make it better. I'll add them in and soon this will be one of the best guides on the web!
  • 03-02-2012, 08:02 PM
    apple2
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    Be sure to suggest any additions/modifications here!
  • 03-02-2012, 08:23 PM
    apple2
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    OK mods, next string of edits is here :P

    Changes:

    - A 'Breeding Tub'. Some people use the male or female's cage for this. Others buy a separate enclosure for breeding. Again, this is up to you. Make sure it is heated as they will be in there for a while.

    CHANGE TO

    - A 'Breeding Tub'. Most people use the female's enclosure for this. Others buy a separate enclosure for breeding. Again, this is up to you. Buying a separate enclosure is not advised as it may turn the female off to breeding. This term is used because some breeders do use separate tubs, so to avoid confusion.


    You will put him back in every 2-4 days until you see signs of an ovulation.

    CHANGE TO

    You will put him back in every 2-4 weeks until you see signs of an ovulation.


    4. Candle the eggs!

    CHANGE TO

    4. (Advised for artificial incubation only) Candle the eggs!


    8. Feeding

    Some females eat during breeding, and others don't. I usually offer food to my females while breeding. If they don't accept it, they probably won't eat during the season. Try one more time and then stop offering food. If you are doing maternal incubation, I recommend not offering food when she is with her eggs.

    CHANGE TO

    8. Feeding

    Some females eat during breeding, and others don't. I usually offer food to my females while breeding. If they don't accept it, they don't accept it. Try again on the next feeding day. If they seem intent on not eating the rat after a few days, you can offer every other feeding day. If they still don't take it, you can stop feeding all together until the eggs are laid. After laying you can repeat the cycle to see if she takes food after laying.


    5. Put the eggs either into your incubator or back where they were in the tank. The incubator should be set at 88-90 degrees with humidity at about 93%. After moving/replacing the eggs, place the female back into her enclosure and close the lid.

    CHANGE TO

    5. Put the eggs into your incubator if you are using artificial incubation. Before replacing the female be sure to wash her and her enclosure thoroughly so that no sign of eggs will remain. This will get her out of breeding mode. Do not wash if you are using maternal incubation. After removing the slugs, just replace the female.




    @LadyOhh:

    I assumed people would set their incubators to the temperatures stated in the article. This could be done with a thermostat or with the incubator's controls. I can't possibly go over every option, so I provided the temps and left it to the users how to reach them.

    Thanks for the help, and keep suggesting revisions!

    Also, thanks for editing this guys :P

    PS: You might want to remove the "Edit note" posts. They serve no purpose after the edit is made and clog up the page.
  • 03-03-2012, 02:38 PM
    apple2
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    Bump! Can a mod fix the guide with the above edits?
  • 03-05-2012, 04:40 PM
    RichsBallPythons
    When I breed I introduce the males for 3 Days then off for 3 days, If he locks her frist day all day I separate them once they unlock. Thus giving the male break and female as well to develop.

    If you dont cool your females you need the male in there to stimulate follicle growth otherwise she wont know when to start.
  • 03-07-2012, 04:10 AM
    apple2
    Re: Apple's Guide for First Time Breeders!
    OK, I'll add something about cooling in the next edit. Also, could someone please do the previous edit if it hasn't been done yet?
  • 03-19-2012, 11:29 AM
    Quiet Tempest
    You mention that you would advise against feeding a brooding female if maternally incubating. That's a long stretch of time to force her to go without. My females do eat while on eggs. Offer smaller than usual meals and don't disturb the female excessively and there should be no problem continuing to feed her regularly while she's on her clutch.
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