Need some help with my hydrofarm thermostat.

Hey everybody, I am using a hydrofarm thermostat with an exo terra UTH on a 28qt tub. I was wondering if anybody had a similar set up. I ask because I can't get my hot spot to 90 unless I set the thermostat to around 103, is this normal for a tub and this setup? Any input would be great, thanks a ton! :)

Track, I use a hydrofarm for a tank setup with an Ultratherm UTH and it stays within 3-4 degrees regardless. I also use one with my flexwatt under my tubs and it will go up or down depending on the temp of the room. I know it's not the same setup as yours but if I set the hydrofarm at 100, I get a hotspot of about 90 in a cold room. If I warm the room up I will have to adjust the hydrofarm lower because the hotspot gets to 97 or higher. Hope this helps.

Not familiar with the Hydrofarm but with my Herpstat or VE200 I do have to set it higher to achieve 90 or so in the tubs. I guess it depends on where you have the probe located as well. With me I usually set my thermostat to 93-96 to get 90. I also have a older Alife thermostat & usually had to set that around 100 to get 90 in the tubs.

Some people have suggested to use a dummy tub & set the probe in the tub then set it the thermostat to 90 to take the guess work out of it.

Where did you place the probe?

That will effect the answer to this it is not uncommon to have that kind of shift with the probe directly on the heat source especially if the room is cool (77 and lower)

The other issue with Hydrofarms is the accuracy of the temp they display is horrendous. I have a number I use a back up units and they all read incorrect temps. I have one that is 4ºF high the worst of the high end and one that is 3 low the worst of the low end. I'd not be worried about the temp it is reading it could be quite incorrect anyway.

IMO a reasonably accurate thermometer is important with this type of unit. Either invest in a good one (+/- 1ºF or better they usually run in the 200$ range and up) or buy 3-5 cheap ones and lay them all out together and use the ones that are reading the same or at least close.

I have the thermostat probe on the bottom of the tub taped to the outside of the UTH, (so, the UTH is sandwiched between the probe and the tub) I did this because if I taped the probe to the bottom of the tub, THEN put the UTH over it, it left a gap which was killing my heat. I have the thermostat set at 103 and it's holding a steady 89 in the tank.

I use a hydrofarm with no problems. However, I do plan to upgrade to a herpstat.

Anyway, my hydrofarm is set to 95 and I get a 88-91 hot spot in my tubs. I put my probe directly onto the flexwatt, but not under the tub. The tub tends to trap heat around the probe and make the temperature reading inaccurate.
My ambient air is around 70-75.

I also use a ranco on/off for a different rack. I have to set that one to 105 to get a 90 hot spot.

If your temps are fine and steady, then you're all good.

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That is fine as long as you feel the 89 is accurate. That is about what I'd expect if the room is coolish.

Depending on room temp, I've had to run as high as 107 degrees indicated, to achieve 90 ish degrees in the tub.

That's with with 3 inch heat tape. Right now, sitting unboxed in the back of my Blazer is a new rack from RBI with 4 inch heat tape. I'll be interested to see if there's as big a difference between indicated and measured with the wider tape.

The hydrofarm has a larger variance in degrees as it was meant for plants.

Its best to get a Temp Gun and spot check it till you dial it in. Also Room temp with the Hydrofarm will affect it quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by Slim

...Right now, sitting unboxed in the back of my Blazer is a new rack from RBI with 4 inch heat tape. I'll be interested to see if there's as big a difference between indicated and measured with the wider tape...

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Slim, that is high on my wishlist and I am hoping to get one real soon. Tell me how it is.

Yeah I live in an apartment so I can't control just one room alone, wish I would. But my room is around 73 constantly, so yeah I'll have to jack up the therm to get the hot spot accurate, but I feel like its pretty stable now. Thanks a ton for all the help guys :D

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Originally Posted by RetiredJedi

Slim, that is high on my wishlist and I am hoping to get one real soon. Tell me how it is.

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Will Do, Jedi! Right now I'm just waiting to get off work so I can head home and start getting the tubs vented and set up my T-Stat. I got the Iris Sweaterbox Rack for keeping males in. I wanna' see how it runs so I can start putting BPs in it!

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Originally Posted by Trackstrong83

Yeah I live in an apartment so I can't control just one room alone, wish I would.

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Track, I'm an apartment dweller myself, so I understand how it is.

Just my two cents here but why is the probe sandwhiched in between the tub. Why not have the probe buried in the substrate where you actually want the temperature to be read at. Your thermostat for your house isn't inside the furnace reading temperature its mounted on the wall where you live. I may be wrong in this thinking but it would make sense to me to have probe in the spot where you are trying to control the temp.

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Originally Posted by hogleyripper

Just my two cents here but why is the probe sandwhiched in between the tub. Why not have the probe buried in the substrate where you actually want the temperature to be read at. Your thermostat for your house isn't inside the furnace reading temperature its mounted on the wall where you live. I may be wrong in this thinking but it would make sense to me to have probe in the spot where you are trying to control the temp.

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Doing it your way is how thermal burns occur. You NEVER want the t-stat probe inside for UTH as the snake can move it, Pee on it which will casue a massive spike in heat and burn the snake.

You want the probe on the uth directly OUTSIDE so you know the actual temp of the heating pad.

So this is why it would cause the temperature swings then right? because you are trapping the reading in between the tub and the heat pad and that is why there is so much up and down of temperatures and wrong readings from the hydrofarm or any cheaper tstat then?

No that just comes from a low end thermostat with sub par quality, and room temps.

If room temp was more stable of 75-80 your temps wont vary but 1-2F.

Wont matter what t=stat you use, have to have it outside and adjust accordingly.

Helix is supposed to be one of the best, but whe ni used them i had to set it 95-100 just to get a 88 in the tubs. Where i just Johnsons now and all are set at 88 and i get 89 inside

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Originally Posted by Trackstrong83

Hey everybody, I am using a hydrofarm thermostat with an exo terra UTH on a 28qt tub. I was wondering if anybody had a similar set up. I ask because I can't get my hot spot to 90 unless I set the thermostat to around 103, is this normal for a tub and this setup? Any input would be great, thanks a ton! :)

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Same setup, room temp set to 70deg. (room temps vary 68-72)
My hydrofarms are set
104 and 103

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Originally Posted by Maixx

Same setup, room temp set to 70deg. (room temps vary 68-72)
My hydrofarms are set
104 and 103

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If you use a space heater a smaller one and get room to about 75 which is still comfortable to live in your thermostat will dial in better

Thermal burns? The hydrofarm probe is waterproof and is put in soil that is watered with the plants in its real use. So a little pee shouldn't effect that probe very much but a few degrees.

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Originally Posted by hogleyripper

Thermal burns? The hydrofarm probe is waterproof and is put in soil that is watered with the plants in its real use. So a little pee shouldn't effect that probe very much but a few degrees.

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Do as you wish, in 17 years of snake keeping/breeding I seen enough of the easy way, costing a ton in the long run.

Probes do NOT go in the tank, or tub regardless your setup.

Fantastic! I set my t stat to 104 and it's holding 90 strong :D

What is a thermal burn so I can better understand why the probe doesn't go in the tank?

Burns 1 and 2nd degree burns o nthe snakes belly and or back depending if you use uth or lamp


http://www.exoticpetvet.com/images/Picture%20637.jpg

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Do as you wish, in 17 years of snake keeping/breeding I seen enough of the easy way, costing a ton in the long run.

Probes do NOT go in the tank, or tub regardless your setup.

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Amen and x2 to both points.

I'm not trying to stir anything up I simply put the idea out there and why the probe in between the heat pad makes no sense to me. I thought the whole idea behind forums was to learn and ask questions......the original post was asking about probe temp being so high. So obviously if the probe was in tank it made more sense to me is all.

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Originally Posted by hogleyripper

I thought the whole idea behind forums was to learn and ask questions......

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Probes placed in the enclosure are left to the mercy of the enclosure's inhabitant. The last thing you need is your probe getting displaced by the animal you are trying to heat properly.

In addition, the manufacturer of my rack system specifically states that the probe should be placed directly on the heat tape.

Since properly regulated heat tape usually doesn’t get much hotter than 110 degrees on the high side, there is no reason not to mount the probe there. It allows the T-Stat to directly control the item that is producing the heat.

I hope this helps to answer your questions.

But a thermostat is used to take in the temperature of the hot spot. If you control only the heating device itself than you have to set the temp of the stat higher to achieve the temps you want. Therefore you could actually control ambient temp of the cage if the probe is inside the enclosure right in the hot spot it would more accurately set the temp on the stat to 90 and it would not take outside of the cage ambient temp into effect therefore you shouldn't have to even change your thermostat setting ever again. It would work like your house thermostat. You set your house thermostat to 70 degrees and your house is 70. You don't set your stat to 104 to achieve 70. Then change it the next day to go to 106 to achieve 65 because its 10 degrees colder outside. You set it and it is 70 no matter what. So this what I mean by it not making sense. So with out knowing the safety part of what you where trying to say this is why I was confused.

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Originally Posted by hogleyripper

But a thermostat is used to take in the temperature of the hot spot. If you control only the heating device itself than you have to set the temp of the stat higher to achieve the temps you want. Therefore you could actually control ambient temp of the cage if the probe is inside the enclosure right in the hot spot it would more accurately set the temp on the stat to 90 and it would not take outside of the cage ambient temp into effect therefore you shouldn't have to even change your thermostat setting ever again. It would work like your house thermostat. You set your house thermostat to 70 degrees and your house is 70. You don't set your stat to 104 to achieve 70. Then change it the next day to go to 106 to achieve 65 because its 10 degrees colder outside. You set it and it is 70 no matter what. So this what I mean by it not making sense. So with out knowing the safety part of what you where trying to say this is why I was confused.

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It doesnt work that way, The thermostat is only reading the Temp of the heat tape. You need to use a thermometer or temp gun to read the actual temps. You want to keep the heat tape from getting to a certain degree which will reduce the risk of overheating and or fire.


With it inside, the heat tape now has to heat up higher, and heat though the plastic to reach the set temp of the thermostat. Resulting in a higher reading on the Heat tape. Which if the probe is moved cause the snake wanted to mess with it(and they will) will now result in a spike in temps causing burns, death and or fire.

Like i said I have my thermostats set at 88 and i get a 89 in the tubs, my probes are OUTSIDE taped directly to the heat tape. My racks hold 9 snakes each, Putting the probe inside one tub over the other will throw the entire rack off top to bottom.


You will learn the hard way keeping the probe inside the tank or tub. They WILL move it eventually and when they do its just disaster waiting to happen.

I disagree with Rich on this one. The first and foremost is a probe must not move period. if the snake moves it it is bad news if the dog moves it is is bad news... It does not matter where it is it must not move or be moved. The stories of burns I know of have all been on racks in fact with the probe on the heat source and been pulled off during cleaning or with the movement of the tub.


The exterior placement allows a greater swing it is dependant on a grab bag of conditions but room temp being a huge one. I have test set ups that I can get ten degrees of swing with this type of placement. It is not safe in all conditions.

Interior placement can be used as long as the probe CANNOT be moved. Tape does not belong in a enclosure. I use hot malt glue and place the probe FIRMLY in place I push and pull at it if it wiggles at all I cut it off and start over. It must not move. I would also recommend a failsafe t-stat with interior placement. This is a second on off t-stat with its probe placed on the heating devise and set at a level that prevents interior temps to be over 97º. in the event of a a glue failure or something the secondary will shut off the power to the primary preventing burns.

The idea that pee or poo on the probe causes massive spikes I have run a test enclosure and dumped water at room temp and pudding on the probe and did not get a spike large enough to trip the secondary t-stat. Some modern t-stats will shut off it the probe temp triggers a hi or low alarm adding to the margin of safety with an interior placement.

Interior or exterior the probes should not be able to be moved away from the heat source. Interior placement provides much more temp stability in variable environments. Not everybody can spend the money required to heat an environment to the ambient cool side temp needed.

just for the record I do not suggest the hydrofarm as a primary t-stat it is simply too inaccurate to be trusted completely I would suggest it as a failsafe t-stat not a primary.

I've seen both ways used. But it's not as common to have the thermostat probe inside the tub unless it's a dummy tub with no animal. I don't think there's a wrong way as long it's done appropriately. Personally, I tape the probe to the heat tape directly onto a belly heat rack. On a back heat rack, I tape on the shelf between the tub and heat tape.



If the thermostat is on the heat tape and is reading 100 and you're getting a steady 90 inside the tubs, then why does it matter? It's working isn't it. The thermostat is used to regulate the heat tape, but you shouldn't use the thermostat as a thermometer to measure the actual tub temps. That isn't the correct way to use it anyway. Plus a thermostat temperature reading may not be accurate anyway.. Always have a temp gun or some sort of thermometer device to measure enclosure temps.

My thermostats always read something else than my Acurite thermometers and temp gun.

Anyone serious into Reptiles and breeding 9 times out of 10 will NOT have the probe inside the enclosure. Why, theirs no need to have any wires in the cage with an animal that is strong enough to move it regardless what you use to hold it down with.

Why risk the potential hazard of injuring the snake if something goes wrong.

People can disagree with me all they want, I been around longer than most and ive seen it all. I go by first had experience on what works and what doesnt.

Do as you wish, but when that day comes, Ill be here saying I told you so.

Personally glue failing, failsafe failing and in some cases secondary system in the primary failing seems like quite a long odds.

I simply believe the chances are so long as to be not very possible. I am not speaking about a rack but a single tub as the OP has or a single enclosure. Running a probe inside a rack is not feasible or even needed as racks need stable room temps there is no need.

The probe moves the failsafe kills the power and takes over regulation the probe moves and in some cases the primary kills power before the failsafe can. The scenario is the probe moves the at the same time the primary fails and the secondary fails? I just don't see two or three of these happening at the same time.

I cannot move one of my probes without pulling the wire apart I need to use a heat gun and putty knife to remove the probe I just do not see a snake managing to move the probe. I see no reason to take risks either but what one sees as a risk others don't. I see cheap cord wired to flexwatt as a risk of fire as it burns at a low temp. Rich I know you do not.

Tonight it is cold outside 3ºF the room my test enclosure is in is 57ºF the probe mounted on the heat source is set to 106ºF the interior is currently 82ºF The high today inside was 81ºF and the same hot spot was 103ºF I do not think this to be reasonable or safe temps the enclosures on the other side of the room stay the same 90ºF hot side and vary by only half a degree.

Rich if you are so certain that your way is the ONLY way, try this, drop your snake room 15ºF lower from where it is and see what your hot spot is with out changing the t-stat at all. Lets be real here "Anyone serious into Reptiles and breeding 9 times out of 10" will not have a dedicated 'snake' room humidity and temp controlled. I do don't you? I also keep some of mine in the rest of my home they are my beloved pets not breeding stock not animals I make money from but pets, They are a part of my family and are part of my home not relegated to a corner of the basement. My home changes day to night and to prevent the temp changing takes a different approach that a breeder never sees. I resent the implications that I am not serious, I take my animals welfare seriously and have gone to great lengths to protect them. I have never cheaped out to save a few bucks on inferior products, cables, or supplies ever.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Personally glue failing, failsafe failing and in some cases secondary system in the primary failing seems like quite a long odds.

I simply believe the chances are so long as to be not very possible. I am not speaking about a rack but a single tub as the OP has or a single enclosure. Running a probe inside a rack is not feasible or even needed as racks need stable room temps there is no need.

The probe moves the failsafe kills the power and takes over regulation the probe moves and in some cases the primary kills power before the failsafe can. The scenario is the probe moves the at the same time the primary fails and the secondary fails? I just don't see two or three of these happening at the same time.

I cannot move one of my probes without pulling the wire apart I need to use a heat gun and putty knife to remove the probe I just do not see a snake managing to move the probe. I see no reason to take risks either but what one sees as a risk others don't. I see cheap cord wired to flexwatt as a risk of fire as it burns at a low temp. Rich I know you do not.

Tonight it is cold outside 3ºF the room my test enclosure is in is 57ºF the probe mounted on the heat source is set to 106ºF the interior is currently 82ºF The high today inside was 81ºF and the same hot spot was 103ºF I do not think this to be reasonable or safe temps the enclosures on the other side of the room stay the same 90ºF hot side and vary by only half a degree.

Rich if you are so certain that your way is the ONLY way, try this, drop your snake room 15ºF lower from where it is and see what your hot spot is with out changing the t-stat at all. Lets be real here "Anyone serious into Reptiles and breeding 9 times out of 10" will not have a dedicated 'snake' room humidity and temp controlled. I do don't you? I also keep some of mine in the rest of my home they are my beloved pets not breeding stock not animals I make money from but pets, They are a part of my family and are part of my home not relegated to a corner of the basement. My home changes day to night and to prevent the temp changing takes a different approach that a breeder never sees. I resent the implications that I am not serious, I take my animals welfare seriously and have gone to great lengths to protect them. I have never cheaped out to save a few bucks on inferior products, cables, or supplies ever.

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I dont do this for money nor did i claim i did. And for you to make a snarky comment that all i think of is money and breeding stock Pisses me off. I do this for fun, when it stops being fun Ill close up and be done and never look back. As i work with electronics for a living, snakes are a calming factor in my life simple as that.

The wires you keep talking about will NEVER EVER catch fire from being hooked up to a single strip of Flexwatt properly. Not sure where your expertise comes from with thinking the wires i use and almost everyone else but YOU are inferior cause they have a plastic coating on them. These cords are rated at 13 amps 16g wire and 1600-1800+watts load capacity. The chances of flexwatt over loading that cord and causing it to draw too much amperage to heat the wire is very Slim. I never said my way the the only way, But the way I been doing things for 17 years have proven to work. Never had a mis hap with heating, sick snake EVER.

The cord powering your computer or laptop is more likely to cause a fire than the cords use to wire flexwatt or UTHs. Ive never skipped out on anything in my collection when i have over 3k in heating and thermostats on hand.

And I have had my room temps drop in the 60s when power was out, And generator I had was too small for space heater to run. So i rant the incubator and racks only, guess what I didnt touch my t-stats and my hot spots were still in range.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I take my animals welfare seriously and have gone to great lengths to protect them. I have never cheaped out to save a few bucks on inferior products, cables, or supplies ever.

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Are you suggesting that because we disagree on probe placement for a tub that it equates to me using cheap supplies and and having a disregard for my animal's welfare? Is that really what you ment to say here?
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Slim

Are you suggesting that because we disagree on probe placement for a tub that it equates to me using cheap supplies and and having a disregard for my animal's welfare? Is that really what you meant to say here?
:rolleyes:

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Anyone serious into Reptiles and breeding 9 times out of 10 will NOT have the probe inside the enclosure.

I am serious and use interior and exterior I am saying there is other ways of running probes. There is not only one method and with proper safe guards there is such a low risk that it is safe.


Let me start over it is too personal and that is at least partly my fault. Sorry for that again.


I KNOW you care about your animals and I am 100% certain that you do the very best for them and money is not the issue behind what you are doing. I never intended to say other wise, it did come out that way. I am tired and over worked and not writing clearly.

I am saying nothing more than this there are other methods of doing things other than the way you are suggesting. With the safe guards I have suggested it is just as safe as the placement you use (not for racks however) No probe can be poorly fastened and easily moved in any arrangement. I would also suggest that a failsafe t-stat is not something that should be thought of as optional it is a valuable part of a safe set up and will go a long way to prevent problems.

the cord snide comment was a cheap shot and I regret it. Sorry for that. I felt attacked personally and responded in kind.

I do retro engineering of products to re-purpose them. My comments about a cord are not about the load but about the possibility of an arc at the connection to the flexwatt. I agree lamp cord is fine as long as the connection is armoured well and in a position where the tub cannot repeatedly run over it. This is often not the case, the connection is often in a place where it is exposed and can be worn. The nature of flexwatt also lends to poor connections due to the fact it does flex. I have tested and watched lamp cord burn when exposed to an arc at a connection. Heater cable does not burn easily or for long unlike lamp cord. Properly done and carefully checked over it is unlikely to cause an issue. I feel that heater cord adds a small margin for safety that is not afforded by lamp cord. I also know that well done and carefully maintained there is low risk on an arc. Cord choice or probe placement properly done pose low threat, improperly done both are a risk. This is the point I was clumsily trying to make.

There are many ways of doing things, and carefully thought out, and with proper forethought, done very safely.

I dont wanna jump in on the fight here but i have my probe on the heat tape in between the tub and heat tape and have had zero problems so far :)

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I am saying nothing more than this there are other methods of doing things other than the way you are suggesting.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

There are many ways of doing things, and carefully thought out, and with proper forethought, done very safely.

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On these points, you and I certainly see eye to eye.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I dont wanna jump in on the fight here but i have my probe on the heat tape in between the tub and heat tape and have had zero problems so far :)

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I never suggested it didn't work. It just doesn't work in every situation. There are conditions where the swing with the room temp is quite large, too large IMO to be stress free 7-8º (hot spots that swing from 82-98º F) up and then down for the temp seems to me to be too large.

I just can't see a probe failing, a mechanical relay failing, and a second T-stat failing all at the same time. I just can't see all of that happening at the same moment. (aside from a power failure)