live rat problem

Last Monday i fed my bp a live rat, well for some reason he grabbed it and wrapped the rat by the hind quarters and not the chest area so it took a lot longer for the rat to die, luckily Cesar (my bp) didn't get bit. While that was going on the rat wouldn't stop screaming and it really got to me.... now I've tried multiple times in the past with the f/t food and he wouldn't take it i have a good feeling he still wont take it if i try again, does anyone have a How To on a co2 gas chamber and if so roughly how much does it cost? If not than is there tips or tricks to get a bp to take f/t? I know color has nothing to do with it because he has taken white and brown rats live.

This worked pretty well for me: http://www.happyhillbilly.com/co2/

Why even make a CO2 chamber? You can just bonk the rat or dislocate its vertabrae near the neck. Quick and painless death, and you save the money.

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Originally Posted by apple2

Why even make a CO2 chamber? You can just bonk the rat or dislocate its vertabrae near the neck. Quick and painless death, and you save the money.

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Bonking them isn't considered a humane way to kill rodents... I've done it but I certainly wouldn't consider it to be quick or painless. CO2 chambers are really good if you need to kill a large number of rodents at a time.

To the OP here is another version that works pretty well: http://www.rodentracks.com/DIY_Co2_Chamber.html

My C02 chamber cost me roughly $30 to put together. All you need is a C02 tank, hose, and a Rubbermaid container or something like it. Put a hole in the container, attach the hose and seal it(I used silicone). You can probably find a c02 tank and hose on craigslist used for cheaper, if not you can definitely find them at a hobby shop that sells paintball supplies.

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Originally Posted by apple2

Why even make a CO2 chamber? You can just bonk the rat or dislocate its vertabrae near the neck. Quick and painless death, and you save the money.

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i dont feel comfortable doing that, also i dont want to think its dead when its really knocked unconscious and wake up and harm my snake....its not a mouse

Yikes! CO2? Bonking a rat on the head? Way to much work and I don't like the idea of having to pre kia my feeder rat's to my snakes,lol. I use to keep rat's and mice as pet's. I'm glad that all of my snakes take f/t. I did have to feed one of my normals live cause she wouldn't eat. I promised myself not to get attached to the food (when driving home to feed) lol.
If, you want to feed f/t I'm sure there are stickies here talking about how they did it? For me, I just kept offering my one normal female a f/t weekly. She refused to strike at it everytime, she would just smell it and move on. After, a few week's of her not eating thou. I read a post saying that you can leave the f/t rat in there tub overnight? And, wouldn't you know the f/t was gone in the morning. Now, she takes the f/t all the time. Maybe you could try this way,too?

Hi guys,
I actually work as a scientist and we do a fair amount of rodent work. We have to use a CO2 chamber to kill the animals. But honestly, it is really a much slower and more painful death. Breaking the neck (cervical dislocation) is instant and painless. Sometimes the animals still flick their legs after but if you know how to do it, then it is by far the most humane way.

You may want to try feeding smaller more frequent meals. Less work for the snake to kill and less chance of something like that happening again.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Originally Posted by deathfromabove

Last Monday i fed my bp a live rat, well for some reason he grabbed it and wrapped the rat by the hind quarters and not the chest area so it took a lot longer for the rat to die, luckily Cesar (my bp) didn't get bit. While that was going on the rat wouldn't stop screaming and it really got to me.... now I've tried multiple times in the past with the f/t food and he wouldn't take it i have a good feeling he still wont take it if i try again, does anyone have a How To on a co2 gas chamber and if so roughly how much does it cost? If not than is there tips or tricks to get a bp to take f/t? I know color has nothing to do with it because he has taken white and brown rats live.

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Are you talking about the bp in your avatar? What size rat are you feeding?

Cervical dislocation is hard to master but once you've got it, you've got it. Co2 is virtually painless, and you can probably make a chamber for free out of house hold ingredients, and then dry ice or vinegar and baking soda.

I don't think anyone should be complaining about how much 'work' it is, when the few minutes it takes to set up a chamber, or the few seconds it takes to CD shouldn't be more important than the welfare of the animals in question.

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Originally Posted by heathers*bps

Are you talking about the bp in your avatar? What size rat are you feeding?

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Thats what I was thinking. Fang is about that size maybe a lil bigger around 175-180 grms and I fed him pups or rat pinkies whaen the store has them.

I would not advise cervical dislocation. Unless youve been trained to do it, it can be a terrible experience for you and the rat/mouse. What are you going to do if when you pin the head down and pull, the head slips loose? now you have a pissed off scared animal that will defend its self and try to bite you. What are you going to do when you pull the tail and it comes off and the rats still alive????? something that iv seen no one mention is what size of rat is too big for cirvical dislocation,, there is a protocol on proper size...... all of these things can hapen at some point.
Iv dispatched probabaly thousands of mice and rats both by gas and dislocation. It was alwayse quicker to dislocate if you had 5 or 10 to do, but even with my experience I prefer to gass...
spooky

Just a heads up, a C02 chamber can also be sad if you're prone to feel empathy towards the animals you are handling, for whatever reason, I do agree however that it is the easiest to do humanely, and is recognized by the Merck Veterinary Manual as an acceptable means of rodent euthanasia. The thing to keep in mind with C02 is that they should sort of just fall asleep. If they start heaving and breathing heavily especially right off the bat, you're going too quickly. The point is to slowly reduce the amount of oxygen/increase the amoutn of C02 so they get tired and pass out before then increasing the C02 further, causing the rat to die while unconscious. If done properly, C02 should not be painful, and in some cases, shouldn't even be noticed/realized by the rat. Some will get concerned, possibly because they are in an enclosed unfamiliar box, or possibly because of the smell or the reduced oxygen.. but often times I see no signs of distress with a C02 chamber, only rats that slowly fall asleep, and then die.

btw, Merck defines euthanasia as -
... an easy, painless death. In regard to animals, euthanasia is the act of killing an animal in a humane manner. The primary objectives of animal euthanasia are: 1) relieving pain and suffering of the animal(s) to be euthanized, 2) minimizing the pain, anxiety, distress, and fear the animal experiences before consciousness is lost, and 3) inducing a painless and distress-free death.

Cervical dislocation if done properly every time, can be quick and painless, but I pride myself in being able to handle even the squirmiest of rats/mice without being bit and without hurting them.. I can't imagine also trying to humanely execute this method especially by somebody who is nervous about doing so and especially concerned with the animal's distress/anxiety before it dies (which is what sparked this thread to exist with a screaming rat being held by a snake).

Building a CO2 chamber is really easy. I'll post a pic of mine when I get back home.

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

You may want to try feeding smaller more frequent meals. Less work for the snake to kill and less chance of something like that happening again.

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X2!!

I agree fully with this.

I would advise against cervical dislocation, especially if you're uncomfortable with doing it. You may end up doing it incorrectly and injuring the feeder.
And if you do plan on CO2, then I would do the baking soda+vinegar route. Dry ice may get costly if you're only going to do one rat at a time...

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Originally Posted by satomi325

X2!!

I agree fully with this.

I would advise against cervical dislocation, especially if you're uncomfortable with doing it. You may end up doing it incorrectly and injuring the feeder.
And if you do plan on CO2, then I would do the baking soda+vinegar route. Dry ice may get costly if you're only going to do one rat at a time...

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Airline tubing and a paintball canister full of co2 is easy and inexpensive :)

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

something that iv seen no one mention is what size of rat is too big for cirvical dislocation,, there is a protocol on proper size......

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I'm interested in this point. I have no idea, because the only mice/rats I do this way are pinkies/fuzzies. I'm not being facetious at all here, but if it's anything similar to killing a chicken, size shouldn't be much of a factor as long as the proper force is exerted and it's done with a confident hand.

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

Airline tubing and a paintball canister full of co2 is easy and inexpensive :)

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Agreed, I pay $9 to refill my canisters, gas 100's of rats a year, and spend less than $40 a year in refills.

There is no size rat that's too large for cd. But I do not recommend CD for young rats, because the tails can be degloved very easily.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

There is no size rat that's too large for cd. But I do not recommend CD for young rats, because the tails can be degloved very easily.

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Do you mean young rats as in crawler/hopper/weaned in size or even smaller? I've read and experienced that C02 isn't an efficient method with pinkies/fuzzies. I forget the reasoning behind it, but in experimenting with it, I can say that the kept coming back to life on me and it took forever.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

There is no size rat that's too large for cd. But I do not recommend CD for young rats, because the tails can be degloved very easily.

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http://research.uthscsa.edu/iacuc/cervdis.shtml

IACUC is a pretty big organization used by most if not all University research facilities.
spooky

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Do you mean young rats as in crawler/hopper/weaned in size or even smaller? I've read and experienced that C02 isn't an efficient method with pinkies/fuzzies. I forget the reasoning behind it, but in experimenting with it, I can say that the kept coming back to life on me and it took forever.

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I think anything younger than 'small adult' is too young to cd because the tail is still soft enough to be pulled off or degloved. For very young rats, or mice, I just flick them hard in the back of the head and it's lights out.

Here's a quick pic of my CO2 chamber. Everything you need other than the box you should be able to pick up at a paintball store.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a299/kklepac/tn.jpg

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Originally Posted by heathers*bps

Are you talking about the bp in your avatar? What size rat are you feeding?

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yes it is the bp in my avatar but, that was taken back in May when i first got him, he is MUCH larger now im not sure of the weight but hes over 2 feet and maybe 4-5 inches thick around (a little thicker than one of the handles on a controller for a play station 3)

I have tried the baking soda and vinegar way.. I guess I haven't gotten the mixture just right, but it seems to put out a lot of co2 really quickly and die off fast.. The mice and rats I have killed with it seem distressed before 'passing out'. Often enough, it didn't last long enough to kill them all. I had about a 50% success rate with it.

I still got rat's and mice that were a bit 'wonky' that when fed they didn't have much fight in them though. However, it kind of defeated the purpose.The mice were often still alive rather than the rats though I will say..

CD can be done on adult mice and rats. If you know what you're doing you should NEVER pull the tail off! It's a quick sharp yank, keeping the head immobilized. Job done