Newb question on caging

I live in Ontario Canada and I can't seem to find any plastic or acrylic cages like the boaphiles or vision cages. The shipping and more importantly the brokerage fees are going to make it too expensive from the U.S.

I found one cage http://rickysreptileenclosures.com/ but it is only 24"W x 20"D x 18"H. I don't think it is enough for an adult.

I don't have the ball python yet but I want to get a cage setup and ready before I buy one. I was originally going to get a glass one with front doors but I really want to avoid humidity problems.

Any thoughts or advise is very much appreciated.
Thanks.

You should send a PM to Kitedemon, he lives in Canada and has PVC enclosures.

Sly plastics has really nice ones, web site is poor however. http://www.slyplastics.com/en/index.html

Sylvain is a good person and easy to deal with.

Greg West is also a great guy to do bussiness with he also makes enclosures

http://cornelsworld.com/terrariums

I have never dealt with these guys but they look like boaphiles.
http://www.powerhousedisplays.com/Reptiles.pdf

I don't like the rickys they to my mind have the disadvantages of tubs and none of the advantages of custom enclosures.

Thanks so much for the great start! I am really excited about getting a ball python but have been going crazy making decisions on caging and I think these types are going to be a better way to go instead of the glass terrariums.

Thanks again.

They are much easier to manage than tanks. It is a good investment, also keep in ind that setting up an enclosure before you add a snake is a good idea. It often takes a bit of tinkering to get right and it is never a good idea to subject you new snake to temp shifts and all the fiddling it can take best get things basically correct and then add the snake.

I totally agree with setting up cages before getting the animal. I ended up building my own beardie enclosure and getting it setup because the glass one became very hard to manage temps and I don't want to make that mistake again.

This is a great forum and the best I have found so far for not just ball python info but also other reptiles. Seems like a great community!

The last link you sent me actually supplies a store somewhat close to me call All Reptiles. So I may actually be able to drive out and get one! Still looking into the other suppliers to discuss shipping etc.

I noticed you were in Ont. I have some others too but these are the best I know of powerhouse I don't have direct dealings with but noticed they are at least in the same region so I added them glad I did. Let me know what they look like I have friends going that way in a few months they might be able bring back something... ;)

I will for sure! I hope to get one in the next couple months. (depends a little on finances. I have a sick Beardie right now with a large tumor on his head :()

BTW do you have any tips on how to heat these types of cages? My house gets around 68-70f in the winter and I am not sure if all I will need is a UTH. I am a little worried about the ambient temp getting too low. I plan on using a thermostat with the UTH. Any setup hints are much appreciated.

My place is about the same temp. I run a dual system 2 UTH (two t-stats) and a fluorescent light inside with a blu led night light.

The uth keep the surface temps and the lights help bump up the air temps. I add blue or pink foam insulation to the top and sides (not blocking the vents) to help hold the heat. To be honest the cool side uth is rarely on. I am currently have two test enclosures one with just one UTH and lighting one with a radiant heat panel. They are performing ok the RHP is a bit temperamental to get stable. some have suggested placing the probe under the substrate but with the air temp I have been playing with the panel and hide top gets SCARY hot (100º+) so I am playing with suspended probes.

It is a pain, my suggestion is to buy the enclosure and run a single UTH with installed fluorescent lighting inside and add a night led strip (I point the LED into the ceiling and hot glue over the sides to dim it it is seriously bright.) The leds don't produce much heat but the electronics inside do so it cools over night but not as much as you might think it has been working for me.

I get stable 90 24/7 inside the hot hide the cool hide has been 79-82 range the ambient air temps at 9am are about 79º at 12 they are about 82º at 3 they are about 85º they rarely get hotter than 85 The outside of the enclosure stays cool so the cool hide insulated the cool so it isn't becoming hotter it stays about the same. The temp hold that until the sun goes down then the house cools and air temps fall at 8pm they are often about 82º this is when the FL lamp goes out . The enclosure holds 80 until about 9 and drops a degree an hour until 11 or 12 when the led lighting takes over it keeps the temp about 78-9 the rest of the night. (combined with the insulation and hot side heater)


Your set up will not be mine but it is worth the try as it is likely you will have FL lighting anyway you can always buy a RHP or just heat the room up to 80 later but if the lighting works it is a cheap alternative if it does not then you have time to look to other options.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whispersinmyhead

I will for sure! I hope to get one in the next couple months. (depends a little on finances. I have a sick Beardie right now with a large tumor on his head :()

BTW do you have any tips on how to heat these types of cages? My house gets around 68-70f in the winter and I am not sure if all I will need is a UTH. I am a little worried about the ambient temp getting too low. I plan on using a thermostat with the UTH. Any setup hints are much appreciated.

---

Kitedemon just explained everything pretty well, if you still have any questions check out this thread on PVC cages: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...69#post1763769

Powerhouse Displays is out of Mississauga, very similar to the Boaphile cages. I'm checking them out at the expo in Woodbridge this weekend and I'll report back.

Fernando, one of the sales reps I am assuming, is really helpful and I was emailing him back and forth last week.


**kite was waaaay ahead of me.

Here is Powerhouse's website for pricing:

http://powerhousedisplays.weebly.com/

I never saw the pricing for them! Thanks upnorth!

They are actually the cheapest I have found up here, $153 for the 24"x24"x12".

Thanks everyone! I actually already got a quote from Cornels World. Not bad at all though really. Here is the response:

"I am in Calgary. Shipped to you including GST that cage size would be
$316.05. If you need a florescent fixture installed, that would be $47.25,
and 2' of 11" heat tape would be $28.88. Let me know if you would like to
place an order, or if you have any questions."

I asked about the PVCX Caging - 3'L X2'W X1'H - 45 Gallons. I think that is pretty good and I can fit a 3' cage in my living room a lot easier than the 4'. I may have no choice though.

I just hope the ambient temps are ok with out a rhp. I just hope the heat tape will be enough to keep the ambient temps ok.

Thanks everyone for being such a great help.

Greg is a really great guy. He also carries a 17 low watt flexwatt that barely gets up over 86º I had given thought to using it as an radiant heat system for a beardie a while back just attaching it to a side wall or top with a basic (hydrofarm) t-stat to control it this may be an option as a secondary ambient heater too. It is cheap but you have to be sure he knows you know it does not get hot enough to be used as a primary heat source he is hesitant to sell it. As I said he is a very good guy to deal with he will not knowingly sell something that is not going to work for you.

That is awesome to hear and unfortunately very rare these days or at least in my experience so I am very glad to hear that. (I will pass that info on to my friends/family out west for when they are in the market).

I just got off the phone with All Reptiles who carry the Powerhouse PCVX line and they just quoted me $229 for the 4' and $159 for the 2'. I don't know that 2'L x 1'D x 1will be large enough for a ball or will it? I was thinking 3'L by 24? They seemed very friendly and also I can go and see the cages before I put $$ down which makes me very comfortable.

Do you think 2' is enough?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whispersinmyhead

That is awesome to hear and unfortunately very rare these days or at least in my experience so I am very glad to hear that. (I will pass that info on to my friends/family out west for when they are in the market).

I just got off the phone with All Reptiles who carry the Powerhouse PCVX line and they just quoted me $229 for the 4' and $159 for the 2'. I don't know that 2'L x 1'D x 1will be large enough for a ball or will it? I was thinking 3'L by 24? They seemed very friendly and also I can go and see the cages before I put $$ down which makes me very comfortable.

Do you think 2' is enough?

---

a 2' x 2' enclosure will be on the small side but will be big enough for most males and some females. the rule is 1 square foot of floor space per foot of snake so a 2x2 can accommodate a 4 foot long snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

a 2' x 2' enclosure will be on the small side but will be big enough for most males and some females. the rule is 1 square foot of floor space per foot of snake so a 2x2 can accommodate a 4 foot long snake.

---

Thanks. Yeah I would like a female as well because they tend to be larger. I like the pricing for the powerhouse displays. Now to try and find out where to put it. LOL. 3' x 18 would be a perfect fit but not everything works out perfectly and although glass would fit better I think PVC will be much easier in the long run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whispersinmyhead

glass would fit better I think PVC will be much easier in the long run.

---

Most defiantly PVC is the way to go, a ball python is a very big time investment as they can live 20+ years. Do you really want to battle humidity and heating for that long? The only time I have to do anything with my PVC cages is raise the humidity during shed, the rest of the time they stay at perfect temperatures and humidity (with the help of my thermostats)

Yeah I want to do this right so I really appreciate all the time and expertise you guys have given me. Thanks Kitedemon and The Serpent Merchant!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UpNorth

Powerhouse Displays is out of Mississauga, very similar to the Boaphile cages. I'm checking them out at the expo in Woodbridge this weekend and I'll report back.

Fernando, one of the sales reps I am assuming, is really helpful and I was emailing him back and forth last week.


**kite was waaaay ahead of me.

---

Somehow I missed your post. If you would post here after you have checked them out that would be great! I won't make it down for another month or two depending. It will be nice to see what you think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whispersinmyhead

Somehow I missed your post. If you would post here after you have checked them out that would be great! I won't make it down for another month or two depending. It will be nice to see what you think.

---

I actually went over all the pricing for the Animal Plastics, and it is a better deal to have a T8 shipped than buy a Powerhouse.

The T8 (48x24x12) with a divider (essentially two 24x24 now) is $215+ tax shipped

The Powerhouse 48x24x12 is $289+tax, or $153+tax for a single 24x24x12.

Long term, it seems that the AP T8 is still a better deal regardless of me getting more snakes down the road.

Andrew

Well I am trying to find room for one of these cages and the width isn't the problem it is the 24" depth! That is a very deep cage and most spots I can fit it will fit a max of 20". I didn't realize how deep it was until I started measuring places for it. I haven't found any that are less deep.

I may have to go glass now and I feel bad for asking all the questions about the PVC cages but I am still trying to see where I can put it. I have one large and tall "furniture" type cage already for a Beardie made of plywood (oak) and sealed heavily. I could put the new cage on top of that but I is just over 5' tall because of the cabinet under it and that will make it very hard to maintain. I just don't think that will really work well.

If I have to go with a glass terrarium it will have front locking&sliding doors. I think if I cut 1/4" acrylic and use silicone to fix it on the top of the screen lid just leaving room for a heat lamp that should help keep heat and humidity in.

The last option is well a sad one and I don't know if it will really work. My beardie is passing away due to a large tumor right beside the brain. He has been hanging in there but not going to well. I just finished his big cage (4x2x2) and stand (3' high). It probably can be modified to be safe for a ball python. The lights need some heavy wire covers over them but it is escape proof and holds heat pretty well. I am wondering on how to heat the snake from the bottom though as it is ceramic tile. I have seen a couple cages that had flex-watt attached to acrylic and siliconed to the cage bottom. In my case it is tile that is grouted and sealed. I may post a pic tomorrow and get an opinion. It will hold heat and I think humidity well.

Any thoughts are more than welcome. I can't stress enough that any setup will be fully setup and correct before introducing the snake. Maybe glass can work for me and I can get another beardie or I can convert his old cage. Any thoughts are welcome and to be honest I had my heart set on a PVC but 18-20"D x 36-40L is more realistic for our house unless I convert the existing beardie cage. I also have to keep my wife happy LOL and I just spent a lot on building the beardie cage. Has anybody had any experience with plywood enclosures? They may not work well for snakes and that is ok if that is the case I thought it may be better than glass although not as nice as PVC.

Sorry for all the questions. I am anxious to start getting this set up and well the cage itself is the first purchase. It is late and I need to be up in a few hours so my thoughts are a little scattered. Too long of a post....

Hey, we've all been there. Belly heat isn't necessary, a heat lamp will work. But a heat lamp will be kill your humidity. This can be worked around though. I would recomend that you use a infrared heat bulb 24/7. I definatly think that you can make it work. Pictures of it will help us help you though.

I am working on posting some picks tonight. I will post my rough plan and let me know what you think.

The cage measures 4' X 2' by 2' and the cabinet is roughly 3' high with and open back. Plywood is 3/4" Oak vaneer stained and sealed. The ceramic non-porous tiles are glued down using PL Premium and grouted. The grout is sealed with a non-toxic water based sealer as well. All seams are cocked with G.E> Silicone (not the kitchen and bath stuff).
Cost was about $500 CAN.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7182/6...7fd4ce7fcd.jpg
IMG_0015 by Whispersinmyhead, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7040/6...d0a84d5ecf.jpg
IMG_0013 by Whispersinmyhead, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7183/6...ed842d86f1.jpg
IMG_0016 by Whispersinmyhead, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7177/6...bab7afa2b4.jpg
IMG_0017 by Whispersinmyhead, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7209/6...b56c121b77.jpg
IMG_0018 by Whispersinmyhead, on Flickr

The first thing that would have to happen is move the diimmer switches down into the cabinet (no problem there). I will separate the lights into two circuits and the fluorescent will be on a timer and the heat will be full time.

I will need a lock for the 1/4" sliding glass doors. (shouldn't be hard to find)

The next and slightly more challenging is covering the lights (or 1CHE + 1 Red light would be my first instinct). I have seen nice rectangular wire guards on similar cages but have yet to find out where to get them. Not sure if I need to cover the fluorescent or not.

I may have to replace the metal vents (that have screen on them too) in case the snake cuts it's nose.

Substrate won't be an issue and it is sealed with water based polyurethane 4 or 5 coats.

I feel bad planning out his cage for after his passing but we (nor does the vet) think he will last the year. He may only have a couple months.

Humidity is the unknown for me but maybe a large water dish near the middle of the enclosure will help.

Lots of decor for He/She to hide in and of course two hides.

Right now that is where my thought process is at. I think it could work out better than a glass cage except for my biggest concern which is belly heat? How do I make sure he will be digesting properly?

(I feel bad planning out Freddies cage like this but the vet doesn't think he has too much longer with that tumour on his head. See my flickr for early pics. It is bigger now :( )

Belly heat isn't required, they don't get it in the wild. I would skip the CHE, and use 2 different wattage infrared heat bulbs. I would try a 75 watt for the hot side and a 50 watt for the cool side. I would then get some wire cloth and just completely screen off the top part of the enclosure (balls don't need more tha a foot of cage height) otherwise looks really good.

Yeah obviously I didn't really design it for a beardie but I really don't want a BP to crawl up close to the lights. I just need to make sure i can get access to change bulbs and keep it safely away.

Thanks a ton for the feedback. Do you think the CHE would dry the air out more the bulbs? I thought it may be the other way around. I was also thinking I wouldn't have to worry about changing them as often but if you think the bulbs are better then I will stick with two of those.

Do you have any thoughts on humidity? I figured this cage would hold it better because it is more of a closed design it should hold it better than a glass cage.

One great thing about this cage is that it seems to hold very stable temps. Once I nailed them down I barely have to adjust which is nice. I think I may try and incorporate a thermostat still just to be safe. I can have a stable 10-15 degrees gradient in it pretty easily.

Do you think this will be a worth while project or should I go with a glass cage?

I would deftly try to make this cage work for you. It will hold humidity better than a glass tank. CHE's get really hot. I wouldn't trust one inside an enclosed cage like that and without a ceramic socket. Heat lamps are slightly worst for humidity, but as I said its not like you have a screen top that lets it all out. As far as getting to the bulbs to change them I would just screw in the wire mesh so it can easily be taken out if needed (bulbs don't burn out all that often)

Thanks again! That really is reassuring. I will. Ore that the light fixtures are porcelain not plastic. I will stick with reb bulbs.

I must say this is on hell of a forum! I have read through quite a bit on here and everyone is so friendly een if there is a difference of opinion. You guys have so much patience for beginners like me. I look foreward to my new addiction! I will post my updates and pics when we get our BP.

Thanks everyone.

I picked up some hardware cloth to make light covers. I hope 1/2" is going to be small enough holes. Each square hole is 1/2". The 1/4" seemed too easy to bend.

1/2" should be ok, 3/8" would be better but you shouldn't have any issues with the 1/2"

The hardware store didn't have 3/8" unfortunately. I would have like that. Thanks for the feedback.

Should I also cover up the fluorescent fixture? It isn't very hot but just in case I think I should because it is and exposed lamp with no cover.

I would just section off the entire top with the hardware cloth, but if you don't want to do that I would individually cover up the fluorescent fixture as well.

I am just trying to make it easier to switch a bulb out. It is a silly issue but I want to make it serviceable and safe. Thanks I will be toying around with a few options. It seemed like an easy thing to do until I started LOL. I will post with any updates.

Well I am working the light covers and decided to make one for each light to make it easy to change bulbs. I am using zip-ties to hold it together and the bottom panel will open (by cutting the ties) to change bulbs.

I am wondering if the metal vents seen below need to be covered or changed.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7177/6...bab7afa2b4.jpg
IMG_0017 by Whispersinmyhead, on Flickr

I am wondering if the snake would rub it's nose against them. There is screen right behind those vents so no worries for escaping.

Also I am thinking that if the temps start fluctuating too much I may have a thermostat to control the lights but not sure if it is going to work well with light bulbs. So many things to consider so this is becoming a little bit of a log of my thought process LOL. Sorry for such a long thread.

I would screen them off, regular incandescent light bulbs work great on thermostats

Do you think is may rub against the vents? I can get plastic ones too that a screened. It would be easier than working with hardware cloth and look a lot nicer. I am thinking I remember seeing some plastic covers that had 2-3mm holes as vents. It may ben worth changing them over. Thanks.

I would go with the plastic ones

I am going to replace all the inside ones with plastic.

Where should I put the probe of a thermostat to make sure I get the proper temps? If I am using aspen for substrate I don't know where to put the probe. I can't just hot glue it to the tile bottom it would be covered up make it too hot I think where the BP actually is. I understand the idea behind a thermostat with a UTH because you can have the probe between the UTH and glass/PVC, but with lights it baffles me.

First things first are covering the lights and moving the electrical (this week/weekend), and next figuring out the thermostat thing. I am pretty sure I can keep temps fairly stable with the dimmers but I would like the peace of mind that a thermostat will bring. I am going to start looking for a thermostat that is like a dimmer.

What I did when I was using lights with a thermostat is I would hot glue the cord of the probe to the bottom of the tank, and just leave enough excess not glued so that the probe itself could sit just below the surface of the aspen

Here are some good thermostats

Hydrofarm, good but not great ($30)

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR..._bxgy_ol_img_b

Herpstat, extremely accurate and the best you can get, models start at $99 (this is what I use)

http://spyderrobotics.com/

So I am guessing that the hide will be over top of the probe as well? It makes sense. Does the snake ever knock it into a bad position where it would alter the temps badly? I am thinking if we are on vacation for a week or gone for a couple days.

I am also guessing that I am looking for "proportional" thermostats and. It the on/off type. I think the on/off type would be annoying.

The hydrofarm is an on/off type, and the Herpstat is a proportional thermostat, either way there will be a noticeable change in the amount of light put out, but an infrared bulb will minimize the effect (and let it be on 24/7 without stressing out the snake)

the point of hot glueing the cord was much as you can is to make sure that the probe moves as little as possible, I only had an inch or so of loose cord in my cages. the substrate will do the rest. I wouldn't put the hide directly over the probe, but next to it. ( 2 reasons: less likely the snake will be sitting on the probe, and it will make your readings more accurate)

it isn't like with a UTH where if the probe gets dislodged the bottom of the tank will spike up to 110 degrees, if you are using an appropriately powered bulb (I would say 75 watts or 100 watts) even if it is running full blast it should be fine for a few hours before you notice the issue

That is true. Thanks so much that leads it up. I just don't cook the poor thing. I also found a zilla brand one available locally for around $60 and it is rated for 600 Watts. I think the model was 500r. I also found the herp stat but no price. These may be a trickier find I'm Canada but now I know what to look for.

I would be wary of the 500r, they don't have the best reputation. I would PM Kitedemon, and ask him where he got his thermostats as he lives in Canada as well. I really need to find these things out as there are many Canadians on the forums and they always seem to have issues with this.

Here is the link to the one I Was originally looking at.

Big Al's

I think I am going to try and find the herp stat though.

I highly recommend herpstats, I use them, and absolutely love them. I know of people in Canada who have them so they can't be too hard to get, as i said PM Kitedemon and see if he can help you, he's a good guy.

Yeah, those reptitherms are pretty common in pet stores, but don't seem to work well or last long

Yeah I will PM him. I want to do this right. Thanks for the warning on the 500r.