Ri#2

Another of my snakes is suddenly slobbering and snotting.
We called the vet supply and paid for overnight shipping of the Baytril.

So far, none of the other snakes exposed to the Plague Snake are showing what could be symptoms except the 2 girls who are off their feed.


:tears:

That sucks! Sorry about your babies. I hope they get better soon.

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Originally Posted by DellaF

That sucks! Sorry about your babies. I hope they get better soon.

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Thanks.
I'm just hoping they do get better.

I've dealt with sick everything else but never snakes.

This seems so terrible and huge.

Man that really sucks. I hope they get better and no other snakes get infected. My thoughts will be with you

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Man that really sucks. I hope they get better and no other snakes get infected. My thoughts will be with you

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I have to go the farm store and get my own syringes.

Does anybody know what size I should buy?

I'm about to go get dressed to leave and will check back here before I go.

I know "small" but how small?

One snake is 900g and the other is about 1400g.

Help with this would definitely be very appreciated.

And thanks Aaron, you're a good friend....:)

I really wish I knew what size to get so I could help. Unfortunately there are only 2 ways to really learn about how to treat RI, become a reptile vet or have an outbreak in your personal collection. I personally haven't done either. I guess the silver lining of this is that in the future (god forbid) if another one of your snakes get a RI you will know what to do.

My sister is in school to become a vet, I'll give her a call and see if she knows anything about this.

Ok, My sister said that she isn't familiar with BP injections but she did explain to me the basics.

Obviously you need a syringe that is big enough to hold the full dose of Baytril.

She then said that most needles used are in the 20-22 G (gauge) but the length differs. (needles will be labeled like this: a number, a G, then another number. The first number is the gauge of the needle and the second number is the length)

I know that I didn't fully answer your question but I hope that this helps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Ok, My sister said that she isn't familiar with BP injections but she did explain to me the basics.

Obviously you need a syringe that is big enough to hold the full dose of Baytril.

She then said that most needles used are in the 20-22 G (gauge) but the length differs. (needles will be labeled like this: a number, a G, then another number. The first number is the gauge of the needle and the second number is the length)

I know that I didn't fully answer your question but I hope that this helps

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It's a start!

An exotics hospital in Fairfax VA said "TB needles".

Turns out ALL the other herp vets I had found within sane distance no longer exist.

They have all gone to VA and elsewhere.


I am SO screwed.

:(

Baytril is an older medication many bacteria are now resistant to it. I understand the problem but I would get on the phone and speak to a vet whom is willing to work WITH you they will have the experience need to properly deal with the problem. I would really recommend a culture be done before dosing with drugs as drugs often purger the culture. Any decent vet will be able to send the sample out to a lab.

The next questions is what is up that is causing the ri in the first place. Typically it is attached to temps (ambient air often) and poor ventilation. So the next question is what are the ambient air temps in your rack and how many holes do you have in the tubs?

there was a poster a while back whom had no holes and over a period of time all the snakes got RI he had, although he insisted they had enough ventilation the whole time...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salamander

It's a start!

An exotics hospital in Fairfax VA said "TB needles".

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The last RI issue I had, I was given 1mL Tuberculin syringes with 25 gauge (5/8" length) needles. The size of the syringe you need will depend on the dosage of Baytril. I had a different antibiotic, so I can't specifically help there, but I'd be surprised if a dose was larger than 1mL (my girl was over 700g and her dose war 0.3mL). I definitely don't see any reason to use larger than a 25g needle, though (smaller number = bigger diameter needle).

I do second the need to get a culture done, though. Your options are obviously very limited, and Baytril could fix it, but I'd get a culture swab and then dose with Baytril until you get the results that tell you whether to switch treatment, if at all possible.

I am currently treating my snakes with 29 gauge needles. Insulin needles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Baytril is an older medication many bacteria are now resistant to it. I understand the problem but I would get on the phone and speak to a vet whom is willing to work WITH you they will have the experience need to properly deal with the problem. I would really recommend a culture be done before dosing with drugs as drugs often purger the culture. Any decent vet will be able to send the sample out to a lab.

The next questions is what is up that is causing the ri in the first place. Typically it is attached to temps (ambient air often) and poor ventilation. So the next question is what are the ambient air temps in your rack and how many holes do you have in the tubs?

there was a poster a while back whom had no holes and over a period of time all the snakes got RI he had, although he insisted they had enough ventilation the whole time...

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Turns out that I've been accidentally torturing my vet.

He's "not a snake person" by any stretch of the imagination and probably only saw her out of respect for the long, happy relationship we've had with him.

Now I feel awful about that, too.

The tubs have the right amount of holes [2 days of trial and error] to keep the hum about 50-55%.
I'd check them every so often, add another couple of holes and they're good.
Air flow's good since I created a cross-current by having holes at the top on one side and middle on the other.

For an unknown span of time, [possibly 2 days or so] temps were low due to hubby being a neat-freak who couldn't bear the sight of the unsightly tangle of heat cable.

So, he gathered it all up and neatly zip-tied it into a lovely little coil....which caused it to shut down to avoid a fire, thus leaving 3 tubs with no heat other than the 80-something room temp provided by the oil filled heater.

There's no point in belaboring that because he gets mad at me, the snakes, the dogs, whatever, if he screws up and causes them unintentional harm.

Is there any way I can take a culture to him without subjecting the snakes to the bitter cold temps, again?

Both times I took Norma for her shots, she was dramatically worse that night, in spite of being in a heavily insulated tote with more than adequate heat.

[I don't know if the air pressure, ripping wild wind or what is affecting them when taken from the house....maybe it's just the stress]

Bottom line is, the vets I thought were in a somewhat drivable range have all left for parts unknown.

All I have is my vet who is a very good vet but not snake happy.

To make life even more interesting, all the cumulative vet visits over the last two weeks have just about bled us dry.

I cannot borrow any money from anyone because the only people who have it would be my parents and there's no way in hell they'd give a dime for a sick snake.

I've hit the bottom.

I can only do the best I can with what I have.

Until/unless the economy is un-wrecked, the home business we run is bottomed out.

No orders, no 'extra' money.

And, as usual, when it rains, it pours like mad.

There's no point in jumping on me because I couldn't possibly feel any worse than I do.

I've never "failed" my animals before....ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat160

I am currently treating my snakes with 29 gauge needles. Insulin needles.

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I got 22 gauge/3/4".
Did I screw up?
That's what a site I read recommended and they looked most like what the vet used.

I feel for you. I wish there were some other way to help. I transfer snakes to my vet in very cold temps (10ºF) in a snake bag inside a back pack with a reversed zipper (more water resistant) I have towels and such packed around the bag for insulation. I keep all cold air away from the snake as is possible. I have a few sets of 'snugglesafes' http://www.snugglesafe.co.uk/heatpad.htm they are amazing products but a water bottle would be the same.

I suspect that the stress is why things get worse, I have found with cases of RI that the stress causes a bit worse but this 'bump' passes after a few days. The drugs take longer to work that they do with mammals 'slower metabolism' my vet usually suggests 30 days and do expect to see anything for 10-15 days in the way of improvement.

it is so hard to be away from an exotic vet. I am super lucky to have a good vet close but sometimes a vet whom cares and is willing to do reading and work with you is better than one who wings it. I have always been given a very small needle a diabetic type.

I ask after the cause,as so many fix the RI but never repair the problem and it just keeps reoccurring. At least you know why and have solved the problem and prevented the re-occurance.

best of Luck,
Alex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I feel for you. I wish there were some other way to help. I transfer snakes to my vet in very cold temps (10ºF) in a snake bag inside a back pack with a reversed zipper (more water resistant) I have towels and such packed around the bag for insulation. I keep all cold air away from the snake as is possible. I have a few sets of 'snugglesafes' http://www.snugglesafe.co.uk/heatpad.htm they are amazing products but a water bottle would be the same.

I suspect that the stress is why things get worse, I have found with cases of RI that the stress causes a bit worse but this 'bump' passes after a few days. The drugs take longer to work that they do with mammals 'slower metabolism' my vet usually suggests 30 days and do expect to see anything for 10-15 days in the way of improvement.

it is so hard to be away from an exotic vet. I am super lucky to have a good vet close but sometimes a vet whom cares and is willing to do reading and work with you is better than one who wings it. I have always been given a very small needle a diabetic type.

I ask after the cause,as so many fix the RI but never repair the problem and it just keeps reoccurring. At least you know why and have solved the problem and prevented the re-occurance.

best of Luck,
Alex

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I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and ask for a prescription for proper needles.
[hope it doesn't tick him off]...:(

My "snake tote" is weird insulated lunch/cooler satchel with a separate compartment for a thermos or drink.

I fill a snake sack with popcorn and nuke it til it's hot but not popped and put that in the thermos compartment.

It zips totally closed but I leave an inch gap open for air.

One nuking lasts about 3 hours and I can always stop at a convenience store and use their microwave to warm it up, if need be.

Still, with all that toasty happiness, she got dramatically worse each night after the vet visit.

[cold metal table, a bunch of people wrangling her down, bright lights, weird smells...she was seriously stressed out and kept trying to climb up me to get around my neck to hide under my hair]

When it was over, she literally dove into her own snake sack, in which she stays within the lunch tote thingy.

Ozzy, being a Bee, I think would just stroke out.

He does not handle stress or strangers well at all.

I just went out to sanitize his house and give him a huge bowl of water for extra humidity, only to find the poor dear shedding.
[two in one night.....it's 'get naked in the frat house' time, this week]

I am so dreading trying to give a shot to a spazzy Bee tomorrow.
That Spider gene can be a real trip.

Norma just hides her head in my hand and lets the vet do his thing.

Ozzy gonna go centrifugal, I just know it.

I have watched these videos a few times now and they're from FreakieFrog. My snake is currently being given fortaz, but I hope this will help you somewhat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L3A3...t6lGQubd5Mxhmt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wofIDksPluQ&feature=plcp&context=C3942f4dUDOEgsToPDskJ5dc4jTl1Gz-la7f4psqVd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6CrMZbYP2o&feature=plcp&context=C356a431UDOEgsToPDskItTD8AR_8mX1urNqRbU R7U

Just keep his heat a little higher than usual and keep doing what you're doing. You won't see a change in it overnight!

Mike

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Originally Posted by piper

I have watched these videos a few times now and they're from FreakieFrog. My snake is currently being given fortaz, but I hope this will help you somewhat:


Just keep his heat a little higher than usual and keep doing what you're doing. You won't see a change in it overnight!

Mike

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Thank you SO much Mike!
That's just what I needed! ;)

[but now my skin is crawling...I am not a needle person].....:oops:

I hope I can do this without hurting the snakes or passing out.....LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Thank you SO much Mike!
That's just what I needed! ;)

[but now my skin is crawling...I am not a needle person].....:oops:

I hope I can do this without hurting the snakes or passing out.....LOL

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No problem, I'm not a needle person myself either but I had to get over it.. Now 4 needles in and it's actually quite simple once you get used to. It took about 2 too get used to it. Goodluck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piper

No problem, I'm not a needle person myself either but I had to get over it.. Now 4 needles in and it's actually quite simple once you get used to. It took about 2 too get used to it. Goodluck!

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Oh lord...you'd had to have been here to appreciate this fiasco.

Neither of us had any idea snake skin was that tough and impenetrable.

I'm sure both snakes hate our guts, now.

Fior the first time since I've had him, Ozzy actually sat quietly on my lap and just stared me right in the face.

He looked like "WHY?!? Why have you done this me?!?"

[we didn't 'hit it on the first try'...or second...or third]

The vet gave us insulin needles.

They are SO flimsy I was terrified they'd break off inside of him.

I don't think we got far enough into the muscle on either snake because they both "leaked" a bit afterwards.

I know it had to hurt them and I can't bear that.

I hate myself right now.
:tears:


I sure wish there was a nurse living nearby.

Are you in Texas? Even if you are not give me the general area and I will ask some of my dog rescue people if they can help if I know one close to you. Worth a shot. Something I have done is place them inside a paper towel core, and tear out the spot that you will inject. It makes it a little easier to keep them from flipping in all directions. Wish I was closer...
*Fila*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Oh lord...you'd had to have been here to appreciate this fiasco.

Neither of us had any idea snake skin was that tough and impenetrable.

I'm sure both snakes hate our guts, now.

Fior the first time since I've had him, Ozzy actually sat quietly on my lap and just stared me right in the face.

He looked like "WHY?!? Why have you done this me?!?"

[we didn't 'hit it on the first try'...or second...or third]

The vet gave us insulin needles.

They are SO flimsy I was terrified they'd break off inside of him.

I don't think we got far enough into the muscle on either snake because they both "leaked" a bit afterwards.

I know it had to hurt them and I can't bear that.

I hate myself right now.
:tears:


I sure wish there was a nurse living nearby.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fila

Are you in Texas? Even if you are not give me the general area and I will ask some of my dog rescue people if they can help if I know one close to you. Worth a shot. Something I have done is place them inside a paper towel core, and tear out the spot that you will inject. It makes it a little easier to keep them from flipping in all directions. Wish I was closer...
*Fila*

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Western MD but I wish I was in TX, just because.

The snake flipping wasn't the problem..that we're too flipping stupid to do this right, is the problem.

Neither snake will fit in a paper towel tube.

Somewhere upstairs I have a tube that a poster came in.

I'll try that the next time.

I re-watched the videos some nice person posted and honestly, we couldn't done it "wronger" if we'd tried.

The vet makes it look so easy.

Poke, squirt, done.

Ugh.

:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Western MD but I wish I was in TX, just because.

The snake flipping wasn't the problem..that we're too flipping stupid to do this right, is the problem.

Neither snake will fit in a paper towel tube.

Somewhere upstairs I have a tube that a poster came in.

I'll try that the next time.

I re-watched the videos some nice person posted and honestly, we couldn't done it "wronger" if we'd tried.

The vet makes it look so easy.

Poke, squirt, done.

Ugh.

:rolleyes:

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You're not that far from one of the best Exotic Vets in the Country!!!
http://www.seavs.com/

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

You're not that far from one of the best Exotic Vets in the Country!!!
http://www.seavs.com/

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2 hour drive, at least.