Ball python morph standards? Shows?

Is there such a thing?

If there isn't, why not?

I'll go ahead and paste one of my responses to a similar thread going on right now. Being relatively new to the hobby, I may be in the dark, but this encompasses much of what I have personally seen...

The only standards are between the breeder and the buyer. People who consistently produce beautiful animals and have produced beautiful animals are known for that, but plenty of people make sales on what would universally be considered "less than desirable" animals.

Even with something so basic as pastels...NERD, Graziani, Ruppell, Bell, etc...all different animals, but what do you look for? The common sense answer is bright, vibrant yellow. However, plenty of people will forgive a bit of browning out for a crazy pattern, intense blacks or blushing, or something else.

My opinion on the matter is that balls haven't been selectively bred for long enough(or with enough care) to be able to sit down, discuss, and validate what sets "the standard". And with what really amounts to a 15 year breeding craze, and people breeding what they like, or just breeding with no regard for desirable traits, a standard is impossible to set. If you want a place to look for a nice example of each morph, there's World of Ball Pythons, but anything you'll find to hold to those examples will likely vary greatly.

Morph standards are mostly opinion right now (except for the obvious poor examples of a morph). And as far as shows, no one has organized anything like that yet. Every discussion I've read on it ends with people being worried about disease/mite transfer at a "show".

I don't think so. It will be difficult to come up with a set standard.
I think a single morph can vary from one end of the spectrum to the other quite easily and can be equally beautiful. If there was a standard, then there would have to be a set way a morph will look like. Pastels alone can throw very different looking offspring in a single clutch. Some with busy jungle patterns, others with reduced banding, etc. Color and blushing differ as well.

However, I believe there should be (and there are unofficial) set guidelines to excellent examples of morphs. (Bright contrasted colors, lots of blushing, reduced pattern, etc etc).

I don't know. This is a hard post to respond too. Great topic!

Interesting concept but to what end? I don't mean that to be flippant but really, for what purpose? If you look at livestock shows and even 4-H shows, they originated as a means for farmers/ranchers/etc. to display their stock and in turn market it. That's fine and good for a production animal that serves a purpose for food or as a beast of burden (horses, mules, donkeys, etc.) but for snakes? Don't get me wrong, I love my snakes dearly but outside of being a very much enjoyed hobby, they really serve no particular purpose in my life as far as being able to plow a field, carry me over a distance if my car breaks down, being available as a food source if the zombies attack, etc.; they're a luxury pet rather than a utilitarian animal like a dog, that barks/guards the homestead, etc.

What would be the purpose of establishing a standard? for breeding? and on what basis would you build your guidelines? Brings to mind the saying about beauty being in the eye of the beholder...there are some who like spiders or "dirty"-headed BEL...I'm not a fan of either but if those morphs are what does it for them, by all means, have at it. I like recessive gened animals...other people gnash their teeth and shout expletives thinking of breeding those, lol! I just think it would be extremely difficult to quantify and qualify what is the "ideal" animal in the respective morphs, outside of what is NOT! a quality example of a morph. Throw into that mix normals; some people think they're gorgeous in their own right while others just see a plain-jane animal that's maybe good for breeding but not much else.

Shows/exhibitions would be cool, if the disease/mite issues could be addressed but how would you grade/judge the exhibitors? It's a cool idea and has a lot of possibilities but also a lot more questions as to the "how?" of it all, at least for me. Would we (herp enthusiasts/breeders/hobbyists/etc.) establish an association such as the American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) or the American Kennel Club (AKC) to set the standards and all or...? Would you then have to register your animals and ensure they were up to "morph standards" prior to breeding or...? Obviously people will do what they'll do, regardless, but I would think a responsible hobbyist/breeder would want to produce as high quality an animal as possible, as their reputation is built on their product, so again, what would be the point of establishing standards with so much variation in what is the "ideal" example of a particular morph/animal?

Thanks for the responses. I understand how hard it can be to develop standards, because I had to develope them myself for the UMC. There are some mice like variegated, which can look 2 completely different ways, but one is prefered for show, though both are attractive to different people.


I think it would be interesting to have standards for ball pythons and set up shows for them.
As far as the differences (a normal reduced pattern, and a normal busy pattern for example) there can be standards for both. You could enter the snake as a Standard/wild colour with reduced, medium, or busy pattern, and the snake would be judged according to what you entered it as.

youbeyouibei you bring up a lot of interesting questions. You can check out the UMC's web page (I have a link in my signature) and see how we set up our standards for mice, there. It should help with some of the questions that you have for how to clasify all the animals in the show.


It wouldn't mean that all breeders have to breed towards show standards. It just shows what breeders are capable of. :)


Each morph, would likely get it's own category, unless the morphs were incredibly similar. Like in mice there are 2 genes 'blue' and 'leaden' which created a mouse that is the same exact colour. Both of these genes are shown in the 'blue category' with the same goals in mind, a dark blue mouse who is solid with no patches of shading, coloured toenails prefered, white toes or tails are faults.



EDIT: keep in mind this is very hypotetical, it's not like I'm working on a BP club right now or anything. :P
It's just questions from someone who started a club, as to why there isn't one for BPs.

Another question. What defines a Ball python's price? Odds? Or preference? Both?

This is a good topic. There is a thread going right now on this subject:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...est-example-of....

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Another question. What defines a Ball python's price? Odds? Or preference? Both?

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Supply and demand. Nice female pastels are always in demand, but due to the quantity of them being produced, can only fetch a price of $200 or so for even very exceptional examples. On the other end of the spectrum, male bananas were going for as much as $50-60,000 earlier this year because there were only a handful of them known to be around.

The odds of hitting certain morphs affect the price as well. If you're selling a double recessive animal, that was likely a project that took years to complete, and therefore can command higher prices.

I think it really comes down to this:
Dogs, Cats, Cattle...there are vaccines for all of the major illnesses these animals could transmit to one another, and vaccinations are required for them to enter shows.

There are no vaccines for any of the reptile viruses, and many of them are very deadly.

No one wants to risk that. I know I wouldn't. You don't just have animals on display, but in a show, they would be handled by a judge, which would increase the risk of transmitting something (even with hand washing).

Shows require QT periods, as well as health checks. Judges routinely wash their hands or sanitize at mouse shows. Mice are known for being disease carriers and mite hosts, but it is extremely rare for a mouse to catch something durring a show, other than possibly sniffles which can be caused simply by the stress of being driven to and from the show.


It's something that ANYONE who shows ANY species has to come to terms with. Dog breeders and cat breeders could pass all kinds of deadly viruses and diseases back and forth between their animals, but most of the time things are carried out as safely as possible, and disaster is avoided every time.

Rabbits, pigeons, mice, cavies, chinchillas, there are no vaccine requirements for these animals, and they are shown often. Rats are another good example of excelent carriers for all kinds of uglies, but people show them often, and rarely RARELY have problems, when QT and health check is done.

If there were a ball python show, I doubt the animals are going to be handled by judges if it came down to it. Mammals are handled and touched because they are being judged on body form. For example, dogs have to be symmetrical, have the correct body portions and movement when in the show ring. I doubt that really applies to reptiles as they were not bred to change their body form and function from the original ancestral species. Ball pythons would be judged solely on their paint job I imagine.....and that doesn't need handling. And people could also be required to wear gloves since they're not feeling for abnormalities and such. (The gloves won't get in the way I mean, since its just for handling)

That is a very good point, the pythons could be judged by going from table to table, or by bringing them to the judging table inside of a container, since they really do not need to be handled, and it would only stress the snakes out, honestly.

Good point, gooooood point!:gj:

And if we needed to judge belly colour, the owners could handle the snakes themselves. This would easily drop the possibilities of diseases spreading.

Yes. That's essentially what goes on during reptile expos anyway.

The fact of not making sales would be more of a deterrent than the chance of spreading disease...trade shows seem to be doing just fine.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

The fact of not making sales would be more of a deterrent than the chance of spreading disease...trade shows seem to be doing just fine.

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Why would there be no sales?

I think snake shows would be awesome! It would be quite hard to establish a set standard for every morph, but it could be done. And it could just be for the fun of it. Why not? We have shows yes, but throw in some friendly competition and award some ribbons. :D

Now, one thing a judge may want to look for by handling the snake would be kinks. Sometimes kinks are hard to see, but easily felt. A kink could disqualify a python so that may be something to look for when judging.

People can just submit a forms saying they want their pastel to be compared with other pastels, and have the people at the expo vote for who they think has the best one =p. The snake can stay at the owner's booth on display, and the people will be told where they can find these contestants! I walk around the expos anyways :P. When you see one, you can write it down or they can supply you with a form =p. That way you vote for it on the form, then submit it at the end! There's tons of little raffles, and I think this could just be one more little fun side-event that goes on at the expos ^_^

There doesn't even need to be a "standard". People will vote for what they like, and the snake with the most votes will be considered the best example AT THE EXPO. Not worldwide.. LOL

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Shows require QT periods, as well as health checks. Judges routinely wash their hands or sanitize at mouse shows. Mice are known for being disease carriers and mite hosts, but it is extremely rare for a mouse to catch something durring a show, other than possibly sniffles which can be caused simply by the stress of being driven to and from the show.


It's something that ANYONE who shows ANY species has to come to terms with. Dog breeders and cat breeders could pass all kinds of deadly viruses and diseases back and forth between their animals, but most of the time things are carried out as safely as possible, and disaster is avoided every time.

Rabbits, pigeons, mice, cavies, chinchillas, there are no vaccine requirements for these animals, and they are shown often. Rats are another good example of excelent carriers for all kinds of uglies, but people show them often, and rarely RARELY have problems, when QT and health check is done.

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I'm not willing to put my snakes through 60 day QT just for a show for judging. Just not that interested in that.

I don't think there would be a 60 day quarantine, that sounds like an awful long time. Is that the standard for snakes?

It wold be just like any other event where snakes and other reptiles are brought into the venue. Do they require QT for reptile conventions?

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I don't think there would be a 60 day quarantine, that sounds like an awful long time. Is that the standard for snakes?

It wold be just like any other event where snakes and other reptiles are brought into the venue. Do they require QT for reptile conventions?

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Lol, no qt required for trade shows...you can actually bring your snakes in, sell them to a vendor, and those snakes will be right out on the vendor's table within minutes. That is not SOP at shows from what I've seen, but it happens. Which is why I don't understand why people make such a big deal over it at just the idea of an exhibition style show.

animal shows such as dogs for example are judged based on a certain breed standards recognized by whatever kennel club thats putting the show on or that the dog represents. With snakes their isnt a specific morph standard. Its all based off interpretation. Therefore if a pastel for example judges well at one show it may not judge well at another cause it would be judged by whatever the particular judges at each show likes. So what would be the point? Even bragging rights would hold much water. Also if you had big name breeders going up against just some guy im sure politics would be involved a great deal. Then you have the issues of classes. Do you think people would be willing to bring super high end animals out to just show em off for a ribbon? And what would they get out of that other then a ribbon? Noone is gonna risk their animals health over ribbons in my oppinion. Plus you have to consider demographics. Our industry was made huge because of the internet. We are a global industry. Where would these shows be held? Are people gonna go through all the travel hassle for bragging rights when all they have to do right now is post a pic of a killer animal on sites like this and get all the braggin rights they want. i just dont see it as a reality.

The reason there are no standards, is because nobody has written them. Even the AKC one day just wrote up some standards for dogs. It's not like they're set in stone somewhere, someone made them up out of thin air. I'm sure when the AKC was founded, TONS of people were up in arms about different breeds not being to THEIR standards. But eventually those that were interested in showing did, and those that weren't didn't. That's why we have things like labradoodles and designer breeds like those which still cost a fortune but would never be allowed in a show arena.

It would be almost no different than a regular trade show, but that people would enter their snakes into a competitive contest which is judged to a made-up set of standards, which may win them bragging rights. It's exactly like any other show, if you want to exhibit, you do, if you don't, you don't.

It's not like everyone will be forced into breeding to the standards of the club. Just that people who do want to show, will. :P

What we are doing with breeding snakes is worlds apart from what dog breeders do. We twist the genetics to produce crazy lookin animals. Dog breeders selectively breed for a specific standard. Each snake morph has a hundred different ways it can look. Blushings, colors, patterns etc. There would be no way to write a specific morph standard that anyone would agree on. Then how would you set up a morph class on snakes? There are so many morphs. If this was done you would so many entries of certain morphs mainly lower end stuff and not enough animals being entered in other categories or classes. Thats if you could even convince people of showing up. The reason these animals go to trade shows are for one reason and one reason only. To sell them. I used to show akc and ukc dogs and the politics involved in them are horrible. The politics in the snake industry would be far worse. Big name breeders would either win out every time or animals they sold from their lines would win. Now lets say little jimmy bought a pastel from nerd and put it in a show. Now how would anyone know it was a nerd animal unless he said anything? Nerd should get the credit but how would we know? Now we open the argument for papers. Do we put papers on the animals? How would this be tracked? Whos paying for all this? It just isnt feasable. The snake industry has been around long enough to where if this was doable it would have been done already.

Papers are just papers. Unless they're directly tracked by the club, anyone can make their own.

There are hundreds of ways dogs can look too, so I don't see your argument there. :P

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Originally Posted by snake lab

animal shows such as dogs for example are judged based on a certain breed standards recognized by whatever kennel club thats putting the show on or that the dog represents. With snakes their isnt a specific morph standard. Its all based off interpretation. Therefore if a pastel for example judges well at one show it may not judge well at another cause it would be judged by whatever the particular judges at each show likes. So what would be the point? Even bragging rights would hold much water. Also if you had big name breeders going up against just some guy im sure politics would be involved a great deal. Then you have the issues of classes. Do you think people would be willing to bring super high end animals out to just show em off for a ribbon? And what would they get out of that other then a ribbon? Noone is gonna risk their animals health over ribbons in my oppinion. Plus you have to consider demographics. Our industry was made huge because of the internet. We are a global industry. Where would these shows be held? Are people gonna go through all the travel hassle for bragging rights when all they have to do right now is post a pic of a killer animal on sites like this and get all the braggin rights they want. i just dont see it as a reality.

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You're taking this way farther than it needs to go lol.


animal shows such as dogs for example are judged based on a certain breed standards recognized by whatever kennel club thats putting the show on or that the dog represents. With snakes their isnt a specific morph standard. Its all based off interpretation.
Exactly. So why not let the people attending the reptile expo vote! They will vote based on what THEY like! Someone who thinks they have a unique looking morph can put that up as a contestant, and let the people decide if it's a great example or not! Simple as that! The snake that best exemplifies that morph will be voted by all the attendees =].

Therefore if a pastel for example judges well at one show it may not judge well at another cause it would be judged by whatever the particular judges at each show likes.
Having a panel of judges is not a good idea. It should be left to voters. Majority rules.

So what would be the point? Even bragging rights would hold much water.
How about for fun? LOL. Just like we have BPOM, POTM, and HOTM... Everyone will vote on what they think is the coolest!

Also if you had big name breeders going up against just some guy im sure politics would be involved a great deal. Then you have the issues of classes.
I know personally that if there was an okay looking pastel from NERD, and a SWEET looking one from some person I've never heard of, I would definitely vote for the sweet looking one... How would politics come into play? You're not winning a million dollars here.... You would probably win a ribbon or something stupid like that.. It's for fun... Not to claim that you're the best breeder in the world....

Do you think people would be willing to bring super high end animals out to just show em off for a ribbon?
People bring super high end morphs to show off... They don't even put them up for sale! I see some of the best in show with the dreaded "NFS" in red marker written on it!! Why not earn a ribbon for "best in show"???? go to a reptile expo, look for one of the "NFS" and ask the breeder "WHOA! WHY DID YOU BRING THAT PRICELESS MORPH TO THIS EXPO?! lmao

And what would they get out of that other then a ribbon? Noone is gonna risk their animals health over ribbons in my oppinion.
Read the statement above... They will bring their awesome animals to the show just to show off.. with or without a ribbon lmao.

Plus you have to consider demographics. Our industry was made huge because of the internet. We are a global industry. Where would these shows be held?
They can be held at a reptile expo! The way I suggested it! Whatever vendor wants to participate can let the organizer know! Then the organizer adds it to the list of the other contestants, and passes this list out to each person who enters the reptile expo! The people who get these passes can either throw them away, or play for fun!

Are people gonna go through all the travel hassle for bragging rights when all they have to do right now is post a pic of a killer animal on sites like this and get all the braggin rights they want.
Nope! It can remain local, as it normally is.. And some big breeders travel state-wide to vend and show off their animals! What's the harm in giving an organizer a form saying what animal they want to compete for a ribbon...

i just dont see it as a reality
Think outside your box :gj:



Also.. if there's only 1 clown pied at the show, and that guy wants to put that snake up to compete, he can enter the "best in show" contest i mentioned. If anyone has a dinker that they brought to show off, they can enter them in a "dinker" contest if enough people have volunteered :gj:

Granted photography skills are a big part of it but this site has contests where people vote on pictures each month. Maybe a good way to start something like this is to do it online.

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

Granted photography skills are a big part of it but this site has contests where people vote on pictures each month. Maybe a good way to start something like this is to do it online.

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That's not a bad idea, but you are right that photo skills/equipment come in to play. Also, some morphs like Ghost just do not photo as well as they look in person.

I like the idea Rhasputin. The industry as a whole is still evolving and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't reach this point in the not too distant future. Such shows would help give reptiles badly needed positive publicity and to show the public and media that it is a serious business and people do care about their reptiles very much. A papers database run by such an organization could also help reduce the number of scammers plaguing the online trade.

Lmao. Good luck with your reptile show. Cant wait to see who wins best of show.

as far as one of a kind snakes, the way this is dealt with in other species it that the animal can be entered as an 'unstandardized' breed. The owner of the snake, or owners of several snakes, would have to come up with a standard, and have it checked over by the judges and approved, and then they will be judged up to that standard. :)


h00blah as much as i love your enthusiasm and rational thinking, the voting thing won't work. That wouldn't make it a show where things are held to standards. As far as an online competition that would work wonderfully, and you could set up polls for people to vote. But for a real-time competition it would have to be pretty ridgid as far as standards and judges who are trained specifically to judge according to the standards, and not according to personal preference.

That is to say, can you imagine what would happen if the judging was left up to the crowd at a dog show?

And of course, animals would be sold and traded at these shows. What would the award ribbons mean to people? It would mean say there is a 'yellow' ball python, and the standard simply says 'this snake should be as yellow as possible' the ribbon that a champion snake wins says to everyone else 'look, i have put my snake up to a panel of judges, and it has been shown to be the most yellow snake out of all these snakes entered!' Does it mean that he's the best snake breeder in the world? No. But it does mean that their snakes are the most yellow snakes, and anyone looking for a beautiful yellow python, should look into the breeders lines.
It also wouldn't mean that other 'yellow' pythons wouldn't be sold either. In the mouse world, reds and yellows should be RED in colour, or extremely dark orange, but ideally red. Are there still tons of yellow and light orange mice out there, and people who love them and want them and seek them out? Of course! And there aren't mouseries which are going out of business because they aren't winning shows. That's nonsense. :P

Im wondering if a red mouse tastes the same as a yellow mouse

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I don't think there would be a 60 day quarantine, that sounds like an awful long time. Is that the standard for snakes?

It wold be just like any other event where snakes and other reptiles are brought into the venue. Do they require QT for reptile conventions?

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No, 90 days is the standard for snakes, but it should be 12 months, since some viral diseases can incubate for over 10 months.

No QT required for reptile expos...it's a risky venue. I handle snakes that have been to an expo more cautiously, and avoid transferring equipment or or food.

I'm not sure why we wouldn't judge reptiles on body conformation as well as color and pattern. If we fail to pay attention to that over time, we may wind up with some animals that don't look quite 'right'. The Crested Gecko people are already paying attention to crest structure.

People can pooh pooh this idea a lot, but I think it may be inevitable in the long run...for better or for worse. If people start doing it, well...who wouldn't take the chance to sell an animal they were planning to sell anyhow for top dollar, because it won a ribbon?

WingedWolfPsion thank you for some very interesting points and thoughts!

I pondered the idea of an online poll of some sort, but the quality of cameras and the potential of people photoshopping to enhance the look of their snakes is just too much for a contest thats just for fun....

And as jinx stated, seeing the morph in picture sometimes does the snake no justice... i think it could be a fun little side event for the vendors :p. maybe some vendors can chime in? :please:

Of course this is all hypothetical :P
I would definitely participate though haha :D

I tell ya what. Im gettin ready this morning to vend the nova expo. Ill ask other vendors their opinions and report back for ya guys.

Snake lab, if you're going to post nothing but inflammatory remarks, please do it somewhere else. :)

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Snake lab, if you're going to post nothing but inflammatory remarks, please do it somewhere else. :)

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I agree.. Randomly popping up to be sarcastic and not bringing anything to the table is just trolling... Take that elsewhere please :gj:

However, if you really are going to vend and ask what others think in an unbiased fashion, then that would be greatly appreciated.

How would the possibility of disease spread be addressed? What's to stop joe blow from bringing in a snake infected with IBD, Paramyxo, or any of the other fatal goodies? They may not even know yet that their animal carries some of those, but it can still be spread to other animals. That's a legitimate concern, or should be for anyone who does truly care about their animals and their wellness.

I can see how people might find this sort of thing fun, and if someone can come up with a way to run it safely more power to you, but I'd stay as far away from something like this as I could get. It's not worth the possibility of wiping out my entire collection because of another keeper's negligence. And let's face it, negligence and ignorance are out there.

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Originally Posted by Shadera

How would the possibility of disease spread be addressed? What's to stop joe blow from bringing in a snake infected with IBD, Paramyxo, or any of the other fatal goodies? They may not even know yet that their animal carries some of those, but it can still be spread to other animals. That's a legitimate concern, or should be for anyone who does truly care about their animals and their wellness.

I can see how people might find this sort of thing fun, and if someone can come up with a way to run it safely more power to you, but I'd stay as far away from something like this as I could get. It's not worth the possibility of wiping out my entire collection because of another keeper's negligence. And let's face it, negligence and ignorance are out there.

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How is the possibility of disease addressed at expos? It would be up to each person contributing to be aware of the health of their animals. Honestly, any time you purchase an animal from a show, there's a risk of something terrible happening. Every time you vend at a show, there's a risk of something terrible happening. This is why I personally won't buy at a show, even seeing some incredible deals, unless I see something truly exceptional. So for those who would use the possibility of disease as an excuse against this sort of exhibition, it doesn't really hold much water. I really don't have much opinion either way, if people want to do something like this, let them have at it...if not, fine.

Shadera, RobNJ, thank you both for your thoughts!

I have experienced this in cat showing. People are very picky about letting others pet or hold the cats, due to possible transmission of diseases. I think if proper QT rules after a show are followed, and the animals that are being sold and shown at the event are watched over carefully and handled as little as possible, by as few people as possible, it will reduce the risk to a negligible amount.

I think that a combination of ideas would be a good compromise.

Start off with 'for fun' judging at expos where whoever wants to can judge what snake they think is best. Not only does this introduce the idea to the community and get people more involved (and possibly help sales, after all, the ones voted as the nicest snakes of their morph would probably get snapped up quick).

Move on to specialized shows just for showing, but keep the 'everyone votes' aspect. This gives the community a chance to define categories, see what works and what doesn't, and finally and most importantly, start defining, based on what seems to get voted the most often, what makes an excellent example of each particular morph.

Then we could move on to 'panel of judges' style judging. With set categories, set descriptions of what they're looking for, etc, the judges would have something to go on, and the community would have had time to grow with and get used to the idea.


Now that that's over, I do have one thought: Many morphs look different from the time that they're babies, to juvies, to adults. Would they not only be judged by morph, pattern business, etc, but also age?

But yes, I can very much see this actually helping the prices of many particular snakes. If I saw a snake for sale that not only looked great, but the parents were champions, the grandparents also champions, etc, I would know that I'm getting a snake with quality bloodlines who would be a real asset to my collection.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Snake lab, if you're going to post nothing but inflammatory remarks, please do it somewhere else. :)

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Hey you and hooblah can think what ya want. It wasnt sarcasm. Hooblah wondered what vendors would think. I simply stated i would ask today. I shot the idea to a few vendors and got the stink eye from them about it lol. I was just doing some field research. The general consensus i got was its a waste of time. Now that shouldnt be used as anything but the oppinions of a few. Hey if people want to do it great. Anything that gets more people involved in the hobby i say atta boy. As far as diseases and shows. I do agree that it can happen anywhere. Qt or not it can happen. I myself when i vend a show i have heat panels under all my displays and maintain good temps cause i care avout my animals. I only let serious buyers handle animals after they have used my hand sanitizer. I also never share deli cups or acrylic slots unless they are cleaned first. I take great pride in my animals. I dont think its fair for people to say they wont buy from a show because show animals arent healthy or taken care of. Remember alot of the same breeders you buy from online do the shows. I for one would rather see what im buying in person.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I don't think there would be a 60 day quarantine, that sounds like an awful long time. Is that the standard for snakes?

It wold be just like any other event where snakes and other reptiles are brought into the venue. Do they require QT for reptile conventions?

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It's SOP when I bring a new animal home, or I take any to an expo and bring them back into my home.

I'm more for the participate if ya want route. It wouldn't take any time away from the vendors really o_O. The vendor would possibly have to make a sign or 2 that show which snake they entered into the contest. That way, when people are passing by, they will know which one it is. It would encourage people with a good eye to check out your table to see it, then possibly buy one of your high quality beauties! Or it would attract new guys to ur table to see. What makes it so exceptional! Who knows, they might be blown away and purchase a snake from your line!

You don't really have to take the snake out unless you submitted a yellowbelly lol. Then you can remove it, turn it over, then put it back :p. if someone asks to hold it, just say its against the rules :).

I'm not sure what would take any time at all really. I think a show specifically for this contest would be a little overkill :s. An event (much like the panels at expos, and raffles) would probably be the best route for a first step lol. If that takes off, then maybe a contest show can be held idk lol. If it doesnt take off, then oh well! It didn't cost anybody money lol. Nobody is losing out on anything. And nobody is gaining anything :p

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Originally Posted by h00blah

I'm more for the participate if ya want route. It wouldn't take any time away from the vendors really o_O. The vendor would possibly have to make a sign or 2 that show which snake they entered into the contest. That way, when people are passing by, they will know which one it is. It would encourage people with a good eye to check out your table to see it, then possibly buy one of your high quality beauties! Or it would attract new guys to ur table to see. What makes it so exceptional! Who knows, they might be blown away and purchase a snake from your line!

You don't really have to take the snake out unless you submitted a yellowbelly lol. Then you can remove it, turn it over, then put it back :p. if someone asks to hold it, just say its against the rules :).

I'm not sure what would take any time at all really. I think a show specifically for this conteost would be a little overkill :s. An event (much like the panels at expos, and raffles) would probably be the best route for a first step lol. If that takes off, then maybe a contest show can be held idk lol. If it doesnt take off, then oh well! It didn't cost anybody money lol. Nobody is losing out on anything. And nobody is gaining anything :p

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Now this format would be a fun way to ad something to a show and wouldnt see any issues with this. But a full blown ribbon show format like conventional dog shows i dont think would work at all. But i like this format.

As someone who breeds and sell animals getting a ribbon would mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and it definitely would not justify putting any of my animal in jeopardy ;)

I buy, holdback and breed selectively to provide my customers with high quality animals and I let THEM be the judge of my animal's quality not some random judge in some random show.

I believe that if you were to do a poll you would likely find out that the majority of breeders would not be interested in the idea. ;)

Ok im confused. Can we get a clarification on this idea. Is the idea to have a reptile show like a dog show format or are we talking some sideshow thing attached to a regular vendor show?

To suggest setting "standards" in ball pythons shows a lack of understanding of ball pythons.

How many generations of "line breeding" did it take to produce the various breeds of dogs ?? How many generations would it take to go from a poodle to a great dane ??

Get back to me in a century.