Annie's STILL not eating :'(

I don't know why though. A week after the day I bought her I tried to feed her and she backed off, almost scared then she shed so I wasn't worried, but since her shed I've tried to feed her two live mice (at seperate times of course) and all she does is coil, hiding her head and if a mouse gets close to her, she scurries off as if she's scared to death of the thing. When I got her the f'ing turd owner at the pet shop told me that she's a great eater and handed me a feeding card which showed that she ate every ten days and he said that she NEVER passed up food. Any suggestions, would help me SO much.

I'm calling the pet shop Monday to see if that guy was "mistaken" when he said that he fed live, adult mice and even check if he remember if he fed a certain colour.

Thanks!

Could it be because its ALIVE? I would be afraid to...... Get prekilled or F/T. It takes me about 5 minutes of dangling the dead mouse in front of Caboose's head until he strikes.

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

Could it be because its ALIVE? I would be afraid to...... Get prekilled or F/T. It takes me about 5 minutes of dangling the dead mouse in front of Caboose's head until he strikes.

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there is nothing wrong with feeding live. it is just personal preference or snake preference. If done RIGHT, feeding live is safe and fun.

I would find out what the pet store was feeding (the feeding card doe not say??). If they were feeding live adult mice successfully....keep trying with live. If they were feeding f/t or prekilled, try it. A snake will generally take what it is used to. What method are you using to feed the mouse to the snake? how long are you giving her to take it?

here are some things to try that may help. your snake may be getting afraid be of you standing there watching, dim all the lights in the room (so you can still keep an eye on the mouse) and just leave them be for a while making little movement. Do you move stuff around in the enclosure before you feed or do you just drop the mouse in? Sometimes, bps like to 'hunt' from the safty of a hide and set an ambush for their prey. just keep trying...these kinda things happen sometimes. Just keep a watch on her weight to make sure she is not loosing too much.

...... dont get all jumpy man. Feading live mice is inhumain and its also crude. Now you can go ahead and do that, but if your snake gets hurt, dont go cryin to me. Some snakes refuse to eat LIVE anything. Try doing something else, and if its still not workin, then switch back.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

there is nothing wrong with feeding live. it is just personal preference or snake preference. If done RIGHT, feeding live is safe and fun.

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There isnt any way to feed live mice/rats and make it SAFE..........

I could get 100 people to back me up on this.

Hey Amber, if she isn't losing weight, I would try to give her another week to get used to her surroundings a little more(with minimal bothering, except for water changes and poo cleanups). If she was eating live mice at the store, I would see if they have different colored mice there. Maybe she doesn't prefer the albino mice. Plus, another week will give her time to get hungry and more apt to eat. If they sell live rat crawlers(baby rats that don't have their eyes open), you can see if she will take one of those. Adult mice can be pretty bold, sometimes even going up to the snake, but younger mice(hoppers,small adults) and younger rats(crawlers, pups, weaned, and smalls) usually do the trick. :)

We're not going to get into a f/t vs live debate, but feeding live can be as safe as feeding frozen/thawed if it is done right. It is not cruel and inhumane, since the prey item doesn't die from suffocation. It dies from lack of blood flow to the brain and other important organs. It is almost the same as when a mouse dies from breathing carbon dioxide. They are not suffocating, but the CO2 replaces the oxygen in the cells, thus putting them to sleep and eventually death.

Pictures on the internet of torn-up snakes, supposedly resulting from a feeder rodent left in the cage, occur because of the owner being ignorant. This happens because the prey item was left in for days at a time without food and water. Of course, the rodent is going to need something to eat, and the unsuspecting, not-hungry snake is the only other edible thing in the cage.

When feeding live, the prey item should be left in the snake's enclosure for no longer than 30 minutes. If the snake shows no interest, remove the prey item, and try again in a week. Be sure to observe the snake, and make sure everything goes as planned, unless the snake's feeding habits require that you not be present.

Hope this has cleared some misconceptions up. And Amber, hope this helped out a bit. Good luck with her :-D

double check your setup 90-94 hot side/80-84 cool side. let the snake settle in for a week or so. i'm with daniel find out what it ate last and try that.

hey people let's not do the live feeding thing again! all kinds of feedings are done weekly by thousands of us live,thawed,fresh killed. each way has some degree of risk (so does keeping an animal captive) there are literally thousands of live feedings done weekly with no problems. same goes for thawed and fresh killed. do what works for you and your snakes!



vaughn

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

There isnt any way to feed live mice/rats and make it SAFE..........

I could get 100 people to back me up on this.

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and 100 more would say that live feeding is ok. it is WRONG to put down something that can be perfectly ok if done correctly. Feeding f/t or prekilled can also hurt or kill a snake if done incorrectly. like I said before it is all personal preference. wild snakes eat live...and they have existed on this earth longer than we have. All I ask is just to be open to the idea, what you do is your own business. Just keep an open mind :)


BTW....I feed f/t rodents.

I would have to agree to the last part of what you said. :)
I have a fear of the mouse bitting my snake, so I have not tried. I understand were your comming from though, so Ill except you opinion. And I wish you would except mine. thanks

I agree with Mike...I would try to stay away from feeding live mice if at all possible. (That's just a personal preference). When I first fed mine I fed her a f/t mouse and she seemed a little nervous about it. I just set it down near her and left her alone to do her thing. After about 10 minutes she ate with no problems. Just keep trying...you'll get it! :)

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

I would have to agree to the last part of what you said. :)
I have a fear of the mouse bitting my snake, so I have not tried. I understand were your comming from though, so Ill except you opinion. And I wish you would except mine. thanks

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of course i except your opinion. :) I feed f/t just for the fact that I do not care to worry about the ''what ifs''. I know of a bunch of people that feed live and some that have to because of snakes preference. So I try to avoid putting feeding live down and direct people to make sure they are doing it properly. I just dont like it when someone labels live feeding as WRONG or DANGEROUS. If someone asks for help with feeding trouble, just suggest that they try f/t....dont tell them feeding live is "inhumain and its also crude''. To me that would be like calling someone an idiot for feeding f/t. Like I said before anyway you feed can be dangerous, but if you do it like you are supposed to there should be nothing to worry about. enough of all this...personal preference thats just it. I have seen too many f/t vs. live debates to keep continuing this....ha

Eplain how F/T could be dangerous and in some cases live wont be dangerous?

f/t can be very dangerous if the rodent is not properly thawed. Sometimes altough the external parts of the rodent may be nice and warm, the internal parts can still be frozen. This is more likely the larger the prey item. The partially frozen rodent will rot in the gut of the bp and can lead to death. This can also happen if the rodent is left out too long. it is a good idea to always fell(i give a slight squeeze) each rodent with your hand to check that everything is defrosted properly. Also, you can usually tell when a rodent has been out too long by the smell but I try to limit letting the rodent sit out longer than 1 hour.

Live feeding is not dangerous if done properly. Becky already covered alot of why bad things happen in her post. Feeding live is not like feeding f/t. You cant just drop the mouse in and leave. The behavior of the mouse and the behavior of the bp can tell you if something is about to go wrong. the owner just has to pay attention. The risk of injury does increase with larger prey items but it should still be ok. a breeder that posts on this site feeds over 200 ball pythons with values ranging well over several thousands of dollars live rodents. He knows how to properly feed so there is no problem. no injuries at all. no way would a good keeper let harm come to their bps. Problems happen when people do not know what they are doing or just dont care.

i try encourage others not to bad mouth live feeding....but if you hear someone say that they just throw a live rodent in their bps enclosure and leave...then tell them that is not the proper way to do it...and their bp can get injured. if they prefer not to feed live properly...tell them to change over to f/t.

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

Feading live mice is inhumain and its also crude.

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It's also crude to pre-judge people based on something that you obviously have no experience with.

Experienced keepers have been feeding snakes live prey since way before you were born and continue to do so to this day.

As long as a keeper is providing his or her snake with it's basic needs and the snake is healthy and thriving, does live/frozen/pre-killed even matter?

Maybe instead of being so quick to judge and condemn the choices that others make, you could have a little bit more of an open mind and offer your help to people that need it even if their choice is different from your own ... now that would be a good thing would it not?

-adam

But both of you cannot say that feeding live mice is less dangerous. That is my point. Its better to go with the choice that is more safe, in this case F/T or pre-killed. If it isnt all the way thawed, then more than likely it will be regurgitated. Someone must be really stupid not knowing how to thaw a mouse. Now feeding live is way diffrent, even the experts have problems. First of all, leaving the mouse in there. Second, the snake misses when it strikes and the mouse bits the pythons eyes. Third, the snake grabs the mouse the wrong way and the mouse is still able to bit. Hmmmmmm, the solution is real obvious or im just dumb. 3 problems vs one problem....... F/T wins again...

You can keep going all day. I can come up with more reasons why not to feed live, then you can why to feed live. Go ahead, make my day... ;)

Oh and another thing. Pre-judging... I can pre-judge anything and not have to experience. I can tell you that walking on a tight-line across two buildings is dangerous even though I have never "experienced" it. Or I can say that guns can cause fatil injuries, and not have to experience. Its the same analogies man...

reptidude, please read up on the f/t, p/k vs. live argument in past threads. everyone is entitled to do what they feel works best for them in this situation. please do not be the cause of another heated thread on this subject.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

It's also crude to pre-judge people based on something that you obviously have no experience with.

Experienced keepers have been feeding snakes live prey since way before you were born and continue to do so to this day.

As long as a keeper is providing his or her snake with it's basic needs and the snake is healthy and thriving, does live/frozen/pre-killed even matter?

Maybe instead of being so quick to judge and condemn the choices that others make, you could have a little bit more of an open mind and offer your help to people that need it even if their choice is different from your own ... now that would be a good thing would it not?

-adam

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I was wondering when you were going to jump in to this converstion Adam.

Adam feeds 200+ snakes live prey. he's a pro...and never had a problem. I have 3 snakes which i feed live. never had a problem. Feeding live is as natural as it gets. God doesn't come down and break a rat's neck and then dangle it in front of the snake. if it was..."dangerous"....snakes wouldn't exist...all the rats would have killed them.

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

Now feeding live is way diffrent, even the experts have problems.

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I know several people with 1000+ ball pythons in their collections and they all feed live and don't have problems. Who are the "experts" that you know that have problems?

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

You can keep going all day. I can come up with more reasons why not to feed live, then you can why to feed live. Go ahead, make my day... ;)?

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Why do you feel the need to be so hostile? This isn't a contest, it's a discussion. Throwing down challenges is no way to make friends around here.

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

Oh and another thing. Pre-judging... I can pre-judge anything and not have to experience. I can tell you that walking on a tight-line across two buildings is dangerous even though I have never "experienced" it. Or I can say that guns can cause fatil injuries, and not have to experience. Its the same analogies man...

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Yes, but do you call the people that walk "tight-lines" across two buildings names like "crude" ... how about gun owners, are they inhumane? You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but at least have to maturity to realize that not everyone in this world does things the same way you do, or makes the same choices as you. Just because someone is different, there's certainly no reason to call them or the things that they do names. That general attitude is the prejudice I was referring to.

Just because you don't feel that you are competent or experienced enough to safely feed your snakes live prey doesn't mean that others aren't as well.

-adam

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

I was wondering when you were going to jump in to this converstion Adam.

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I'm certainly not going to "jump in" to another live feeding debate (been there, done that) ... but I will stand up to general uneducated discrimination against people that make a personal choice to safely feed their animals live for whatever reason. It was the name calling that I thought was totally unnecessary.

ROCK ON Nate!!!

-adam

i will say feeding live is safe in a lot of ways for a beginner. in that they don't have to worry that it still might be frozen or old but the beginner has to watch. and most if not all breeders feed live and i have switched over to live as i have found a local breeder whom i get a pretty good deal from.

First of all. Im not calling ANYONE crude, im saying that you cant say tight-lines are not dangerous because they are. I can judge that even though i have not experienced it.

This goes with the guys argument on I cant judge why not to feed live mice because i have not done it.

You took my quote out of text and made me look like an idiot. that goes with all of what you said.

A situation and people are two totally diffrent things... Re-read what I have said before you mix up anything again. Im not going to be yelled at for something I have never said.

http://www.nathanledet.com/fonz.jpg
u da man Adam

yeah walking a wire between 2 buildings IS indeed dangerous. but, thousands of people don't do it.

I truly love how Nate calls Adam the man, but adam couldnt understand what I wrote. He turned it all around to make me look bad, but in re-turn it just made himself look bad.

Now for your smart remark Nathan. Just because thousands of people have not done it doesnt make it dangerous.

Heres one for you if you think thousands of people have to do it in order for it to be dangerous. Guns- Guns cause fatil injuries, I can judge that even though I have not experienced the situation. Its common sense...

let's not make this personal or start name calling. this forum is for discussion not personal attacks.

I agree, Im stating an opinion and they have to go on and call names and crap. Im tired of it, its an OPINION, but the opinion is more safe then others.

reptidude, you are the only person calling names here. you brought an air of hostility into this thread and you continue to do so with each post you make. you cannot state that an opinion is more safe than others because it is merely an OPINION.

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

I agree, Im stating an opinion and they have to go on and call names and crap. Im tired of it, its an OPINION, but the opinion is more safe then others.

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i'm sorry man but i've read and re-read and i can't find any where i called you a name. However i recall a post with you saying adam and I look like fools...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fehlend_mich

I don't know why though. A week after the day I bought her I tried to feed her and she backed off, almost scared then she shed so I wasn't worried, but since her shed I've tried to feed her two live mice (at seperate times of course) and all she does is coil, hiding her head and if a mouse gets close to her, she scurries off as if she's scared to death of the thing. When I got her the f'ing turd owner at the pet shop told me that she's a great eater and handed me a feeding card which showed that she ate every ten days and he said that she NEVER passed up food. Any suggestions, would help me SO much.

I'm calling the pet shop Monday to see if that guy was "mistaken" when he said that he fed live, adult mice and even check if he remember if he fed a certain colour.

Thanks!

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Tho i've never tested it out for myself, i've heard that allowing a mouse/rat to run around a gerbil's house (to get the gerbils scent) might acctually work. As a previous post said, give it a week before attempting to feed again. Dim the lights and give it a try. What i will normally do to save money is offer live, and if it's refused, i'll wack it and stick it in the freezer. A week later i'll thaw it out and offer again. OR...i also have a separate tank set aside with a hide and some food and water for the rat/mouse. Feeding live or f/t is a merely a personal preference. You should try both and do which ever is easier on your wallet and your time. I hope this helps you some.

So I cannot say that point guns at people is wrong because its an opinion. RRRRIGHT, you make sense

Ill take my presence elsewere

you can say whatever you want but just because it is your opinion does not make it fact. obviously in some cases your opinion will coincide with fact, but in the live vs. p/k debate it did not.

thank you nate for attempting to get this thread back on topic. let's hope to see some more of that here.

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

First of all. Im not calling ANYONE crude

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So you didn't type ...

Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

Feading live mice is inhumain and its also crude.

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Logically, it's obvious that since I feed live mice, you were implying that I am crude. I don't appreciate being called names under the spectrum of broad generalizations about which you have no clue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

You took my quote out of text and made me look like an idiot.

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I didn't make you "look like" anything ... I just asked a few questions ... you're incorrect generalizations, prejudices against people that do things differently from you, and general misuse of the English language in both grammar and spelling allowed readers to form their own conclusions.

BTW ... you still have not listed your "experts".

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

I truly love how Nate calls Adam the man, but adam couldnt understand what I wrote.

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Oh, to the contrary .... I understand exactly what you wrote ... without any first hand experience, you condemned a proven method for feeding ball pythons that people have been using for over 25 years without any problems. You extended your incorrectly perceived notions into a broad umbrella and labeled everyone that does things differently than you as "CRUDE".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

He turned it all around to make me look bad, but in re-turn it just made himself look bad.

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How exactly do I look bad here? You are the one with a prejudice against people that feed live and you've never fed a live rodent to a snake yourself. Even though you have a method that works for you, you choose to condemn others that have methods that work safely for them. All I asked was that you keep an open mind and not prejudice yourself against people that are different than you. I think you should think again about who looks bad here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

So I cannot say that point guns at people is wrong because its an opinion. RRRRIGHT, you make sense

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You can do anything you want, but how about you try posting on an NRA forum calling everyone there “crude”. I bet you get a warm reception.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

Ill take my presence elsewere

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Well, that’s breaking my heart for sure! …. Don’t let the proverbial door hit ya in the attitude! ;)

-adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptidude

Now for your smart remark Nathan. Just because thousands of people have not done it doesnt make it dangerous.

Heres one for you if you think thousands of people have to do it in order for it to be dangerous. Guns- Guns cause fatil injuries, I can judge that even though I have not experienced the situation. Its common sense...

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hi own a few guns and gun are safe way safer then most cars it's the fools that use the guns for the evil porpose of hurting other and for the untrain ones that think they are ok to keep on the coffee table loaded with childen in the house and yes i have a kid in my house, but i also have a gun safe which holds the guns when not in use. and that is the point i think everyone is tring to say if you use common sense and use safe feeding methods feeding live is almost risk free. i say almost because no matter what you do there is always a risk nomatter how small. and if you think about how many people own snakes of all sizes and feed live and the amount of snakes that are are hurt from the live prey it's minimum.

ha ha....i wake up late and check the boards and there is two pages of more posts here.

The whole point I was trying to get across is that everyone has their own ways. As long as their ways are not harming the snakes then they are ok. It really bothers me when people badmouthing things because of what they have heard other people say. I feed my bps f/t. Thats just the way i do it. I have friends that feed live thats the way they do it. As long as you are doing it properly, both ways are ok.

I have been around guns and weapons of all sorts since I was a child. Never once have I hurt myself or someone else. I know what i am doing. Just like Adam has fed his snakes live food for a long time and never once hurt a snake. He knows what he is doing. If someone is too stupid to feed their animal correctly or use a gun properly, don't put the entire group of people in the same catagory as them.

We have many of wonderful people on this site that have kept snakes for longer than I have been on this earth (and i am 22 yrs. old). When someone gives me advice or makes a suggestion, I always listen. Thats all you have to do is listen. dont get angry. People here are only trying to provide you with CORRECT knowledge on the subject.

how true daniel thats the whole point if done right it safe just like anything.

Wow!
That was really juicy, and didn't have much to do with the original question. Hilarious!
I feed live and don't care whether or not some poo head thinks it's crude and inhumane, it's nature, and it work best for me.
I don't keep a human, I keep a ball bython and he seems to like it.
Sorry, just my two cents.

Wow I missed quite a bit.

This is an on going debate to feed live or fresh killed. There is always a HUGE argument about this maybe once a month. I agree that when done correctly a live prey item can be given to a snake, especially stubborn feeders. I have a female that has been eating nothing but live small rats with some advice from Adam it has been working great. Threads always get hijacked on this subject when it does little to help the person who asked the question in the first place. So if you want to make a thread to argue the pros and cons of live vs fk vs ft make another thread and do all the argueing you want there. Now that I have rang in on that part of the thread let me answer the real question at hand.

I would try feeding Annie at night with all the lights off. Yesterday I got Andromeda a small rat and tried feeding her during the day and she wanted nothing to do with it. Remember if they dont eat within about 5 minutes they probly won't so just try again that night don't disturb your little friend just drop the mouse in and turn off all the lights so its pitch black and see what happens (you can use a blacklight or redlight to view if you wish). If she don't eat then you have a pet mouse for a little bit and just wait till the next scheduled feeding. I have a 20 Gallong Long setup for rats when they dont get eaten right away. So maybe a similar setup can be made for the mice and keeps them very fresh this way. You said the pet store fed every 10 days that is a bit too spaced out for me, its completely acceptable but I like to see my snakes take a meal every week if they will. Good luck and drop us a thread when you have success.

Don't let this tread force you away from these forums people here are very passionate about their animals so things like this seem to happen a lot when you have people with different husbandry practices.

ANd I doubt Annie is as stressed as some of the folks in this thread lol. We tend to tranfer our worries onto our BP's like that - when in fact a well hydrated BP can go a good long time without eating and consequently bounce back and remain in great health. A couple of ours have slacked off heavily this winter, but you can't do much more than continue to make the overtures to feeding. I agree with the advice to try feeds at night/in darkness an with minimal disturbance to the BP - so if its chilled out in its hide leave it there and offer the rodent near the entrance. For what its worth in the whole debacle we unintentionally got a burgeoning rat colony and so for a while we've been feeding pre-killed as opposed to frozen (I just feel better knowing a dead rodent can't bite is all). Given absolutely no other alternative to a monumentally finicky eater I might try live - but never in an unsupervised manner and only as a last resort. That's just preference speaking there.

In short - don't let stress you too badly if by all other rights she's doing ok.

Thanks to all of you who gave good advice and didn't sound like an @@@. :)

To answer any and all of the questions posed to me:

1.<B> No, it couldn't be because it's ALIVE (a bloody mouse isn't Frankenstein's monster). </b>

2. A. <b>The feeding card was practically just a peice of college ruled paper which gave dates of feeding. </b>

B. What method are you using to feed the mouse to the snake? how long are you giving her to take it? <b>Ok. I move nothing as she loves her hides and I don't want to stress her a bit before feeding. I turn off all the lights in the room and watch her by the dimness of her nightlight (which is red). I give her an hour and make sure the mouse does not hurt her. After about an hour I'll turn the light on and try to dangle the mouse for her, but she's not interested in that either.</b>

3. <b>Thank you specifically, SatanicIntention and Smulkin for the help!</b>

As for feeding live. Drop the rodent in and if it approaches your snake and your snake dont take it be assured that it wont. Try again the next scheduled feeding when they get hungry they will eat eventually. Make sure all your temps and other levels are correct and that she has plenty of hiding places to get that extrasecure feeling. Again as in my other post feeding at night seems to work very well sometimes.

sorry to bring up an old post, but I cant help to re-read what I said.

Jesus I acted like am immature moron. I apologize for everything I've said. Feels good to be back.