Well, I hope I'm overreacting...but [possible rat bite]

Hey folks,

Just a little bit of a back story: I fed my normal girl last Tuesday. I've been noticing that she has been grabbing all her prey lately in the wrong way (i.e. by the tail, by the butt, etc) and this last prey item was no different. She got the rat on the butt and there was a ton of blood which I later noticed was coming from the rats rear end; but, seeing as she's very strike happy and didn't want to be fooled around with after she got done swallowing the rat, I let her be until the next day [after doing a once over of her neck while she was swallowing the rat]. Next day, I checked her out but couldn't find much of anything because she was in blue.

I decide to check her out after she shed (yesterday night) and low and behold I find two small lumps and what looks to be an "open" wound on the side of her neck. I touched the lumps and they were hard to the touch but didn't seem to bother her when I was poking at them. I searched the forums and online for "lumpy snakes" and rat bites but couldn't really come up with anything that answered my question: should I be worried? I know these snakes have I really nice built in defense to these kinds of things but I don't even know if it's a rat bite or not at this point because I haven't found anything that looks like this and I didn't see the rat actually bite her [she likes to wrap in a way that makes it near impossible to see what's going on].

Here are some pics of her. Sorry in advance if they are too blurry but she was in "investigation mode" when I was trying to take pics (also doesn't help that she is afraid of the camera):

1. Large Bump
2. Smaller Bump
3. Suspected Intruding Bite Wound

http://i42.tinypic.com/sy3s0m.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/wwf0vq.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2qc418l.jpg

I do know that when a snake is infected it has hard lumps...have you cleaned the wound or put anything on it?

Ouch! I haven't experienced a rodent bite yet from the 2 snakes that only want LIVE rodents, but those look like bites to me.

Why don't you switch to f/t rodents if your snake is has trouble aiming?

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Originally Posted by pigfat

I do know that when a snake is infected it has hard lumps...have you cleaned the wound or put anything on it?

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See, that's what I was afraid of....I did put some neo on the #3 wound (no pain killers, I know) but I don't know how that is suppose to help the infection (if it is, in fact, an infection). Is it vet time?

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Why don't you switch to f/t rodents if your snake is has trouble aiming?

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I tried...a lot. She's an oldie that's set in her ways and will turn her nose up at things that don't kick. :( I might have to give it another try though, especially after this....

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Originally Posted by HighVoltageRoyals

I tried...a lot. She's an oldie that's set in her ways and will turn her nose up at things that don't kick. :( I might have to give it another try though, especially after this....

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You may try leaving it in with her overnight. I got super lucky, I tried everything with mine and then one day BAM....he starting taking f/t. But if its a bad infection...I THINK that it has to be cut out...hopefully someone else will correct me.

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Originally Posted by pigfat

You may try leaving it in with her overnight. I got super lucky, I tried everything with mine and then one day BAM....he starting taking f/t. But if its a bad infection...I THINK that it has to be cut out...hopefully someone else will correct me.

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I will try that and thanks for the advice! I kind of dread puss related injuries because I had a bunny that got a really bad abscess filled with "hard puss" that I had to get drained 4 times (at $300 a pop mind you) and he finally said "Ooooohh...seems to be a tooth infection! We should like...take those teeth out or something." Long story short, my bunny died because of incompetence and my brain reacts to "puss filled pocket" as instant death sentence.

I have found a better vet that actually cares for exotics, including snakes but I'm still very uneasy about the whole thing and a little stand-offish....:mad: But it is what it is and if she needs to see a vet, she needs to see a vet; but I would really like to avoid that if at all possible not necessarily for the expense (I'm more than willing to dole out some cash to save my animals) but just because of my major trust issues.

Chelsea, if I were in your situation, I would watch those bumps very closely for a few days. Look for any change in size or consistancy. As soon as you see anything that you know isn't right, take her to the Vet at that point.

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Originally Posted by Slim

Chelsea, if I were in your situation, I would watch those bumps very closely for a few days. Look for any change in size or consistancy. As soon as you see anything that you know isn't right, take her to the Vet at that point.

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I'll monitor her like a MOMMA HAWK.

http://i41.tinypic.com/1089yys.gif

Besides the obvious (continued swelling of lumps), what else should I be watching for that would dictate a vet visit?

Just watch for further swelling/oozing of the bite. You can apply neo to it once a day . Honestly I dont see her having any problems. Snakes are a lot hardier than people give them credit for. We have had a few bites and only one ever got neo. But it was a chew not a bite. The rest healed up on their own and after a couple sheds it was gone. Just watch her . When she goes into she'd again keep humidity up so it will. E easier to shed the scabs off. You may have to do it for her.

Thanks for all the advice guys; you've put my mind at ease for now. She is a pretty hardy girl so I have faith in her but will be keeping a close eye on here and watching for any signs that it is getting worse. I'll let everyone know how it goes in a couple weeks. :D

I would think infected bite also. I have also heard neosporin is not good for snakes. Wish I could remember what the name is of what you should use :confused: betadyne or something like that. Don't quote me on that as I am having a brain fart. Hopefully somebody else will help out..... I know I have heard you have to go to a pharmacy to get it. But there was a thread on here awhile back where a snakes scales were coming off, from neosporin use. Good luck though.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

I would think infected bite also. I have also heard neosporin is not good for snakes. Wish I could remember what the name is of what you should use :confused: betadyne or something like that. Don't quote me on that as I am having a brain fart. Hopefully somebody else will help out..... I know I have heard you have to go to a pharmacy to get it. But there was a thread on here awhile back where a snakes scales were coming off, from neosporin use. Good luck though.

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As far as I know, neo is okay to use as long as it doesn't have any pain killers in it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong! :(

Neosporin without pain relief is fine if you don't over use it. Betadine would be better to use though.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr

Neosporin without pain relief is fine if you don't over use it. Betadine would be better to use though.

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Is Betadine over the counter or prescription?

Neosporin is ok in light moderation and shouldn't be used over and over again as it softens the scales. Betadine will work just the same if not better without harming your snake.

It doesn't look like a bite to me. I say the rat scratched your snake. It most likely kept kicking its hind legs and flung a scale off. In my experience, most rats coiled wouldn't even be able to bite since they're too busy trying to breathe, even when your snake bites the butt.... My snakes bite both heads and butts when coiling and I've never had a rat attempt to bite. They were more concerned with kicking to get away...

The bumps could be from the rat claws piercing the skin though the scales. Rat claws contain bacteria that will irritate where its touched. If the bumps are from the claws, it will clear up on its own.

To avoid future injuries, you can feed smaller sized rats more often instead if larger prey and less frequently. Weanling pups and small rats are harmless.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

It doesn't look like a bite to me. I say the rat scratched your snake. It most likely kept kicking its hind legs and flung a scale off. In my experience, most rats coiled wouldn't even be able to bite since they're too busy trying to breathe, even when your snake bites the butt.... My snakes bite both heads and butts when coiling and I've never had a rat attempt to bite. They were more concerned with kicking to get away...

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I monitor each and every LIVE feeding until the rodent is dead, and I often see the rodent biting at the paper towel substrate whenever it gets the chance... So I wouldn't count on the rodent finding breathing more advantageous than biting HARD. The rodent will constantly chew at the paper towels until it can't anymore. THEN it will focus on trying to breathe.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

I monitor each and every LIVE feeding until the rodent is dead, and I often see the rodent biting at the paper towel substrate whenever it gets the chance... So I wouldn't count on the rodent finding breathing more advantageous than biting HARD. The rodent will constantly chew at the paper towels until it can't anymore. THEN it will focus on trying to breathe.

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I suppose it depends on the size of rat. Like I mentioned before, weanlings and small rats are harmless. I feed smaller and more frequent than larger and less often. It's safer that way. I've never experienced anything you described.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I suppose it depends on the size of rat. Like I mentioned before, weanlings and small rats are harmless. I feed smaller and more frequent than larger and less often. It's safer that way. I've never experienced anything you described.

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I might try this. I have all my balls on a 7 day cycle with medium rats (small rat for the youngin'). Should I just split that up into a 4 day cycle with small rats?

I remember hearing on here (somewhere, I'm not about to wade through years of posts to find it) that feeding bigger meals less frequently is better than feeding smaller meals more frequently. But I personally see it as this: if they eat, they eat so why not?

Also, I'm.....dumb. I can't currently do F/T because I don't have a freezer. I would hate to see a rat go to waste if my babes decide to be super picky about frozen. :/ So I guess I'll have to wait a bit until I splurge on a proper fridge.

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Originally Posted by HighVoltageRoyals

I remember hearing on here (somewhere, I'm not about to wade through years of posts to find it) that feeding bigger meals less frequently is better than feeding smaller meals more frequently. But I personally see it as this: if they eat, they eat so why not?

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People have had success with both methods. I think that keepers and breeders with large collections tend to gravitate to a 7 day cycle because they have so many things to do, husbandry wise, on the other 6 days. The most BPs I ever kept at one time was 6, and even with that few, it was easier for me to feed on a 7 day cycle.

You asked about betadine and u can get it at Walmart for like 15 dollars a bottle.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.863177,-76.206318
1.0 normal bp- Blitz
1.0 Nicaraguan boa- Gavin
0.1 Red Tail Boa- Tara

Id use betadyne. Neo should pretty much only be used once. I prefer not to use it all since it can actually premote infection and softens the scales on reptiles. If they are infected don't worry it's not an instant death sentence. I've seen snakes go for over a year ( a rescue I took in last year) with an abcess. The thing about reptile puss is its hard and caseous like old nasty cheese. It doesn't ooze or drain out. It actually needs to be removed. Many times the original lesion needs to be reopened and the puss "rock" needs to be extracted. The problem is it can take quite a while for these to get to a large size where people notice. I would keep them clean with betadyne and watch for changes in size. If they get larger then you know they aren't getting better and it's time for a vet trip.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

Id use betadyne. Neo should pretty much only be used once. I prefer not to use it all since it can actually premote infection and softens the scales on reptiles. If they are infected don't worry it's not an instant death sentence. I've seen snakes go for over a year ( a rescue I took in last year) with an abcess. The thing about reptile puss is its hard and caseous like old nasty cheese. It doesn't ooze or drain out. It actually needs to be removed. Many times the original lesion needs to be reopened and the puss "rock" needs to be extracted. The problem is it can take quite a while for these to get to a large size where people notice. I would keep them clean with betadyne and watch for changes in size. If they get larger then you know they aren't getting better and it's time for a vet trip.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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Sounds like snakes and rabbits have a lot in common. Bunny puss is like hard cottage cheese....I'll be honest; all this talk about puss and the awesome visuals you just gave me made me a little queasy. :oops: (though you were very helpful!)

Another thing I have read, is when they have an open wound, remove the large water dish and replace with a small one. This allows them to drink but not soak.
It was also recommended to remove any loose form of substrate until healed.