Having problems... New BP owner

Hey everybody. I'm new to this forum and to being a proud new owner of Tobias, my new Ghost ball python. He's about two years old from what I was told, and he's a very active, very friendly calm snake. I love him to death :P

Anyways, I made sure to get a really nice vivarium for him, two hides on the cold and hot side, etc. I really want to make sure I am taking very good care of him. My main issue is this (and I've done a lot of research and I've been told its really common)

He simply won't eat.

The breeder told me he eats f/t no problem, and he is quite girthy and long... But it's been about a month and a half and I'm starting to get a little concerned. I was hoping some of you guys could shed some light on the whole feeding process and I would really not like to feed him live.

How much longer should I leave him be until the next time I try to feed him?
Should I feed him by taking him out of his tank, and into a different container?
Should I feed try to feed him every few days? or every few weeks?
I've tried everything and nothings working. His tank stays at 85-90 degrees all day and then i let it go down to about 75 at night. His humidity levels stay at about 55-75%.

I'm really lost guys! Hope I can get some helpful replies.

What temp are you warming the f/t to?
mine won't react unless the prey is above 85 degrees.

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Originally Posted by Matthew Malone

What temp are you warming the f/t to?
mine won't react unless the prey is above 85 degrees.

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Hmmm... I generally heat up some water and let the rat soak in it for awhile to warm it up... but not boiling hot per say to cook it.

Part of your problem is that you are letting the enclosure cool down at night. Ball pythons need a hot side of the tank between 88 & 92 degrees and a cool side between 78 & 82 degrees 24/7. This allows them to thermoregulate. If your snake doesn't feel he is warm enough he won't eat. What are you using to heat the enclosure? And how are you measuring temps/humidity? Give this a read: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet

A couple of photos could help out too

I'm using an Exo-terra UTH that is under one of his hides and a ceramic heating element (that gives off no light) to keep the ambient air warm in the vivarium. I measure the humidity/temps with a hygrometer and thermometer, (they aren't digital, but the breeder said it would be all I would need.)

He goes back and forth all the time but mostly stays in his cool side hide for the entire day and sleeps, but once nighttime rolls around he comes out and basks on his branch underneath the heating element. I try to feed him at night. I just tried a few moments ago, and I heated up the f/t with really warm water and a blowdryer, then dangled it in front of him. He started to follow it and look like he was gonna strike, but then just shy's away and retreats back into his hide... I tried to take him out of his tank and put him in a cardboard box, he just runs away from it and tried to get out of the box...

I gave that a read before I started the thread, everything seemed to be in order... I don't get it :/

Does the UTH have a thermostat? The dial thermometers do not work, all they do is tell you what the temperature of the glass is. Get one of these, they cost $12 at Walmart.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...nt/photo-3.jpg

Probe goes on the hot side over the UTH, and the unit sits on the cool side. It measures both temperatures and humidity.

It sounds like the UTH is too hot (needs a thermostat) and dropping the temperature at night isn't good either. Does your enclosure have a thermal gradient?

This is him: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/img2599qi.jpg/

This is his tank, the temp is at 85 right now and humidity about 60% (right side is warm side, left side is cool side) and he's poking his head out.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...icture1ff.jpg/

Sorry for the poor quality.

Ok, ill make sure not to drop the temps at night anymore. I'll also invest in one of those right away...

My only other question is what should I do if I make all these corrections and he still won't eat? And yes he has a thermal gradient.

Don't get a thermostat from the pet store as they are all crap. Without a thermostat a UTH can get hot enough to kill your snake.

For $30 you can get this: (works good but there are better)

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...d_rhf_pe_p_t_1

These cost more but work better (starting at $99)

http://spyderrobotics.com/

Chances are fixing the cage temperatures will fix your feeding problem. It is hard to suggest other things to do at this point. This time of year is their breeding season so they tend to go off feed anyway. They can go a year without eating. The best way to tell if they are in trouble or not is to get a scale and weigh him. (a cheap $15 kitchen scale will do)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Don't get a thermostat from the pet store as they are all crap. Without a thermostat a UTH can get hot enough to kill your snake.

For $30 you can get this: (works good but there are better)

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...d_rhf_pe_p_t_1

These cost more but work better (starting at $99)

http://spyderrobotics.com/

Chances are fixing the cage temperatures will fix your feeding problem. It is hard to suggest other things to do at this point. This time of year is their breeding season so they tend to go off feed anyway. They can go a year without eating. The best way to tell if they are in trouble or not is to get a scale and weigh him. (a cheap $15 kitchen scale will do)

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I was told hot rocks would kill a snake and not to use them... This UTH gets warm but not hot at all, it said it was specifically designed for glass enclosures and I have a layer of reptile-carpet substrate below my newspaper...

Doesn't matter. Trust me UTH's must have a thermostat. Most will get upto 110+

Those UTH's can get really hot, up to 115 degrees, which will fry your snake. Its better safe than sorry to get a $30 thermostat to save you $300 snake. Not only will temps like that burn your snake, if its stays there long enough it could have neurological effects as well.

Your tank is too wide open - nothing covering the sides for privacy. I would put like a fish aquarium background on three sides of the tank to make the snake feel more secure.

Good Luck.

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Originally Posted by pigfat

Those UTH's can get really hot, up to 115 degrees, which will fry your snake. Its better safe than sorry to get a $30 thermostat to save you $300 snake. Not only will temps like that burn your snake, if its stays there long enough it could have neurological effects as well.

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Where can you buy a thermostat like that that's NOT online...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Does the UTH have a thermostat? The dial thermometers do not work, all they do is tell you what the temperature of the glass is. Get one of these, they cost $12 at Walmart.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...nt/photo-3.jpg

Probe goes on the hot side over the UTH, and the unit sits on the cool side. It measures both temperatures and humidity.

It sounds like the UTH is too hot (needs a thermostat) and dropping the temperature at night isn't good either. Does your enclosure have a thermal gradient?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

Where can you buy a thermostat like that that's NOT online...?

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It is very rare to find them locally. There might be a reptile or exotic pet shop. Beware of the zoomed thermostats they stop working after a month or so.

Online is your best bet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

It is very rare to find them locally. There might be a reptile or exotic pet shop. Beware of the zoomed thermostats they stop working after a month or so.

Online is your best bet.

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Well, im reading up that these exo-terra heat wave UTH's don't get very hot at all... just warm enough but regardless I'll get the thermostat anyway

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

Well, im reading up that these exo-terra heat wave UTH's don't get very hot at all... just warm enough but regardless I'll get the thermostat anyway

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All that is just marketing. If the UTH shorts out not only could you have a dead snake but a house fire. Thermostats are very important to say the least.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

Well, im reading up that these exo-terra heat wave UTH's don't get very hot at all... just warm enough but regardless I'll get the thermostat anyway

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Snickel, I'm not sure were or what you're reading, but those UTHs can get very hot. Hot enough to crack glass and kill snakes. The advice you've been given this morning is based on our previous experiences, not all of them pleseant.

Having a proper thermostat makes things much easier, as you rarely even have to look at the temps in the tank. For the most part its a set and forget type of thing. Obviously you have a peak at your thermometer once or twice daily, but after having my thermostat (Herpstat for the win) I haven't needed to adjust anything other than the odd misting in about a month.

Dion @ Spyder Robotics makes some great products, now even more so.

The Herpstat 1 ($119?) actually has a humidity control option that you can hook up to a humidifier.


**Also I have the same UTH as you, and trust me, they get hot. Unregulated I lasered mine (and confirmed with my Herpstat as a test) it got up to 114 degrees.
**No I did not have my snake in the tank at the time.

Well, if all this is necessary the breeder sure didn't inform me. He said all I would need is the UTH to have a warm spot, and if need be a rheostat/dimmer switch to regulate the temperature.

I would love to get a herpstat but my 2 main problems are this:

I've already spent a gratuitous amount of money for his entire set-up...
I couldn't afford that, since it's online (I don't have a credit card) and I live in Canada... shipping fees would be monstrous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

Well, if all this is necessary the breeder sure didn't inform me. He said all I would need is the UTH to have a warm spot, and if need be a rheostat/dimmer switch to regulate the temperature.

I would love to get a herpstat but my 2 main problems are this:

I've already spent a gratuitous amount of money for his entire set-up...
I couldn't afford that, since it's online (I don't have a credit card) and I live in Canada... shipping fees would be monstrous.

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Where abouts in Canada are you? I am as well, but I just drove to Niagara Falls NY at a PO Box company.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

Well, if all this is necessary the breeder sure didn't inform me. He said all I would need is the UTH to have a warm spot, and if need be a rheostat/dimmer switch to regulate the temperature.

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Don't want to bash your breeder, but when you mentioned him telling you that stick-on analog temp and humidity guages would work just fine, I kinda' made up my own mind about his level of expertise.

You could check your local classifieds for a used one. I believe there was someone on this site recently selling a Helix (which are great thermostats). Look in the "For Sale" Forum it may still be available.

If you are local, I'll sell you mine. I'd like to upgrade to a Herpstat 2 anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

Don't want to bash your breeder, but when you mentioned him telling you that stick-on analog temp and humidity guages would work just fine, I kinda' made up my own mind about his level of expertise.

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thats fine, he's also the only breeder in town. It was either him, or the pet store.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UpNorth

Where abouts in Canada are you? I am as well, but I just drove to Niagara Falls NY at a PO Box company.

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I live in British Columbia

Another thing man the heat in the tank as well as humidity is a good thing to start with, also remember during breeding season snakes tend to get off feed mine being case in point he ate this weekend for the firs time in 6 months. However the serpent merchant is right a cheap food scale from Walmart is a great idea that way u can monitor him and if he's not eating as long as he doesn't lose excessive weight he will be fine. It's frustrating when they don't eat but it happens just try to stay positive :)

Side note: Ty serpent merchant for the pic of the accurate thermometer/hygrometer I picked up 3 from Walmart and am very happy with them. Also picked up a nice glass top food scale and spent like 50$ total for all four items.


1.0 normal bp- Blitz
1.0 Nicaraguan boa- Gavin
0.1 Red Tail Boa- Tara

Ok lets back track a second... you said you tank is 85-90 degrees, correct? is that all over the tank? Or just a hot spot?

You need to have a gradient 78-81º on the cool side and a ambient temp of around 78-85ºF.

The biggest problem with the stick on type thermometers is two fold, the measure the temp of the glass where they are stuck. This is the largest issue as this temp is not one that has massive importance. The other is they can become grossly inaccurate as the paper card often swells and jams the needle.

You really need to measure the temps inside the hides in addition to the ambient air temp you have currently with the dial. If your ambient air temps are actually 85-90 it is likely the whole set up is too hot.

There are a number of UTH on the market that will not get overly hot. 110ºF is just over body temp for a small mouse or rat. The issue is snakes cannot digest at 110º. I like the lower wattage units like you have a failed t-stat is not usually a massive issue. The problem with out a t-stat is the temp will vary with the room temp a t-stat will stabilize this and help prevent great amounts of variation.

I Am in NS and there is no problems ordering herpstat from Dion (spyder robotics direct sales) I paid 27¢ shipping and got away with out being charged tax. The product is covered under free trade and shipped USPS so there is no issues with brokerage and tax (PST and or GST,HST) might be charged. Greg West (http://www.cornelsworld.com/) he is in Alberta so that might be better...

I think you will discover finding the accurite difficult that model is discontinued and walmarts in my area never had them to begin with. IMO no great loss I hate them. All the cheap digital thermometers are about the same so buy a hand full of cheap ones and only use the ones reading the same.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Digital-L...ht_3059wt_1114
sometimes you can order a bunch. I bought 25 for 30$ with shipping. I found 6 to be poor and gave them away. If you damage a probe you can easily replace it.

Omigosh, everyone is overthinking this way too much.

If the temperatures are off by 5 degrees in the upward direction, that isn't the problem, really. It's a problem, but not THE problem.

In truth, Tobias is a 2 year old male snake, and it's the middle of winter.

He's also described as being very active.

He probably won't eat until spring. ;)

Work out all of the husbandry kinks, sure, but as for food--offer him a smaller than usual prey item every 10 days, and don't stress when he doesn't take it.

He's more interested in girls right now than food. Assuming this is a healthy snake, and the enclosure is as described, then chances are pretty high that this is nothing more than a male snake that is off food for the breeding season. I have 3 mature males in my collection that are eating, right, now, the rest have been refusing since late November.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Omigosh, everyone is overthinking this way too much.

If the temperatures are off by 5 degrees in the upward direction, that isn't the problem, really. It's a problem, but not THE problem.

In truth, Tobias is a 2 year old male snake, and it's the middle of winter.

He's also described as being very active.

He probably won't eat until spring. ;)

Work out all of the husbandry kinks, sure, but as for food--offer him a smaller than usual prey item every 10 days, and don't stress when he doesn't take it.

He's more interested in girls right now than food. Assuming this is a healthy snake, and the enclosure is as described, then chances are pretty high that this is nothing more than a male snake that is off food for the breeding season. I have 3 mature males in my collection that are eating, right, now, the rest have been refusing since late November.

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Thank you!!! Of all the people who commented, you actually made some logic of all this BEYOND dollars and more equipment... I'm planning on getting a thermostat, I'll find a local solution. Thank you for your input.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Ok lets back track a second... you said you tank is 85-90 degrees, correct? is that all over the tank? Or just a hot spot?

You need to have a gradient 78-81º on the cool side and a ambient temp of around 78-85ºF.

The biggest problem with the stick on type thermometers is two fold, the measure the temp of the glass where they are stuck. This is the largest issue as this temp is not one that has massive importance. The other is they can become grossly inaccurate as the paper card often swells and jams the needle.

You really need to measure the temps inside the hides in addition to the ambient air temp you have currently with the dial. If your ambient air temps are actually 85-90 it is likely the whole set up is too hot.

There are a number of UTH on the market that will not get overly hot. 110ºF is just over body temp for a small mouse or rat. The issue is snakes cannot digest at 110º. I like the lower wattage units like you have a failed t-stat is not usually a massive issue. The problem with out a t-stat is the temp will vary with the room temp a t-stat will stabilize this and help prevent great amounts of variation.

I Am in NS and there is no problems ordering herpstat from Dion (spyder robotics direct sales) I paid 27¢ shipping and got away with out being charged tax. The product is covered under free trade and shipped USPS so there is no issues with brokerage and tax (PST and or GST,HST) might be charged. Greg West (http://www.cornelsworld.com/) he is in Alberta so that might be better...

I think you will discover finding the accurite difficult that model is discontinued and walmarts in my area never had them to begin with. IMO no great loss I hate them. All the cheap digital thermometers are about the same so buy a hand full of cheap ones and only use the ones reading the same.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Digital-L...ht_3059wt_1114
sometimes you can order a bunch. I bought 25 for 30$ with shipping. I found 6 to be poor and gave them away. If you damage a probe you can easily replace it.

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The hot spot is his right side of the tank, which is 85-90 degrees. No higher than 92. (closest to the heating element.) his cold side is at a steady 80 degrees, hides on both sides and his UTH is under his right hide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

BEYOND dollars and more equipment...

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It's not about $$ and more equipment, Young Jedi...it's about $$ and the RIGHT equipment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

The hot spot is his right side of the tank, which is 85-90 degrees. No higher than 92. (closest to the heating element.)

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Air temp or surface temp?
The surface the area that your snake can touch shouldnt be over 95 degrees. Yes even under the bedding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Omigosh, everyone is overthinking this way too much.

If the temperatures are off by 5 degrees in the upward direction, that isn't the problem, really. It's a problem, but not THE problem.

In truth, Tobias is a 2 year old male snake, and it's the middle of winter.

He's also described as being very active.

He probably won't eat until spring. ;)

Work out all of the husbandry kinks, sure, but as for food--offer him a smaller than usual prey item every 10 days, and don't stress when he doesn't take it.

He's more interested in girls right now than food. Assuming this is a healthy snake, and the enclosure is as described, then chances are pretty high that this is nothing more than a male snake that is off food for the breeding season. I have 3 mature males in my collection that are eating, right, now, the rest have been refusing since late November.

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Having a UTH without a thermostat is dangerous and certainly isn't helping the situation. If the OP gets the husbandry correct and the snake still isn't eating then yes it's just that time of year. but even if this isn't the cause of the feeding strike it still needs to be delt with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

It's not about $$ and more equipment, Young Jedi...it's about $$ and the RIGHT equipment.

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in most cases, the best choices in equipment cost a great amount of money... which is something I just dont have.... and it frustrates me when i've been told that I am taking fine care of him from one person ( my breeder) and he's been breeding BP's for 20 years+, and then being told I'm not doing a good enough job because I don't have the "RIGHT" equipment

The RIGHT equipment doesn't have to be expensive. Like the hydrofarm thermostat, its only $30.00 and will be FINE. I have several of them and would maybe even give you one if you were intrested in it and pay shipping. Many people have little differences in the way they care for their snakes but 99% of people on this website will agree you need a thermostat. Its just not worth the risk to possibly burn your snake or worse. Thats they only thing that people would say that is wrong with your setup....other than that and droping your temps at night, you're doing fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

Thank you!!! Of all the people who commented, you actually made some logic of all this BEYOND dollars and more equipment... I'm planning on getting a thermostat, I'll find a local solution. Thank you for your input.

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You came on THIS website for advice, you were given advice, you bought the wrong equipment, do research before you buy anything. No need to be rude to others who have told you, you need the RIGHT equipment, for an EXOTIC animal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snickelfritz

it frustrates me when i've been told that I am taking fine care of him from one person ( my breeder) and he's been breeding BP's for 20 years+, and then being told I'm not doing a good enough job because I don't have the "RIGHT" equipment

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Snickel, I went back and read though this entire thread and at no point did I see anyone say you were doing a bad job. But, BP Husbandry runs the gambit from horrid to optimum. When you come to a site frequented by so many BP owners with lifetimes of experience, you will tend to get advise that leans toward the optimum side of the scale. Optimum is something to strive for...just because you can't achieve it instantly, doesn't make you a bad owner.

Moving on, your temps are ok (assuming they are correct) it would be good to get them stabilized more so you aren't seeing so much variation, that is a smaller issue.

A active snake can be a lot of things curious ranging to stressed. How old is the animal I have assumed it is young is it?

Are you feeding (or attempting to feed) the exact same as what the breeder was? (same size same species rats or mice usually, same condition thawed from frozen or live or live fresh killed?)

You may try to add over head cover fake plants something to clutter it up some never forget that balls like to see out but not be seen lots of places to peek out from can help

The next thing to try is not to offer for 7 days no handling nothing just spot clean with as little disruption as possible. Dim the lights before offering and leave the prey item near the enclosure (by the vents) for 20-40 min before offering to get a strong smell in the air make sure the prey is warm to the touch rats have a normal body temp of about 100ºF I actually measure mine and heat (air dryer) to about this temp. Then try to feed. hopefully this works.
best of luck!

Hitting the f/t with a blow dryer after you thaw them really helps as well.