Pied - **PIC**

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/pied-03310501

-adam

Someday, i keep telling myself... i'l have a piebald or pied as you called it! i cant get over how interesting it is, the solid white on them.. i dont know much about the genetics though.. is there any proven way to get a pied BP or is it a random mutation that is unpredictable and cant be easily recreated?

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/pied-03310501

-adam

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Originally Posted by vkahri

is there any proven way to get a pied BP or is it a random mutation that is unpredictable and cant be easily recreated?

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It is very proven and pieds are produced every year by breeders all over the world.

-adam

wow...that's amazing adam.

do you price your pieds based on what percent white they are? Do you try to maximize the whiteness by breeding pieds/hets that phenotypically show a lot of white or who's parents had a lot of white? Is the distribution of white completely random, or does there appear to be some sort of pattern?

Is pied a co-dom gene?

sorry for so many questions...i find pieds very interesting
thanks
zach

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Originally Posted by zachman17

wow...that's amazing adam.

do you price your pieds based on what percent white they are? Do you try to maximize the whiteness by breeding pieds/hets that phenotypically show a lot of white or who's parents had a lot of white? Is the distribution of white completely random, or does there appear to be some sort of pattern?

Is pied a co-dom gene?

sorry for so many questions...i find pieds very interesting
thanks
zach

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Yes, like many other morphs, pieds are definitely priced based on their apprearence.

There is no relation between the amount of white in the parent(s) and the amount of white babies will show ... a 10% white parent can produce a 90% white offspring.

It seems to be random with the exception of the head. Pieds do not have white on their heads (at least that I have ever heard of).

Pieds are recessive.

Hope this helps.

-adam

from my understanding (and correct me if i'm wrong please), morphs result from a mutation in a gene sequence that codes for pigments that give snakes their color...hence resulting in an "atypical" color. if this is the case, and pieds are recessive, why is it that the white color only covers a certain percentage of the snake?
if both genes are mutated, wouldn't one expect to see a completely white snake(leucistic i believe)?
thanks
-zach

Am I the only one who prefers a snake with a more even distribution of white rather than high white? If you want a lot of white, get a leucy! (ok ok, I know they're expensive..)

I love the pictured one, Adam. Pieds will be my first morph project.

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Originally Posted by zachman17

from my understanding (and correct me if i'm wrong please), morphs result from a mutation in a gene sequence that codes for pigments that give snakes their color...hence resulting in an "atypical" color. if this is the case, and pieds are recessive, why is it that the white color only covers a certain percentage of the snake?
if both genes are mutated, wouldn't one expect to see a completely white snake(leucistic i believe)?
thanks
-zach

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Obviously, piebaldism isn't a simple all or none trait. It's actually an autosomal dominant skin disorder in humans (yes, humans can be pied ... and het for pied as well) and has been documented in many genera. The lack of melanocytes in patches of skin on pieds is most likely caused during development of each skin cell when the presence of the homozygous allele(s) (28 alleles in the human condition) allows the cell to code either with melanocytes or without ... leucism works differently, causing all (or at least almost all) skin cells to code without melanocytes. Coincidentally, I have read done some reading on bird mutations where breeders refer to piebaldism and leucism in fancy fowl interchangeably.

-adam

Yes 'pieds' are proven genetic. I believe they are a recesive (sp?) gene.:twocents:

Pied's are recessive. I prefer a fairly even distrubution of white to dark spaces myself as well.

Lovely pied Adam, we too prefer a nice mix of both white and non-white coloring rather than extreme white.

Mike wants to know if you'd take a slightly used wife, 4 kids and one old cat with a raging case of alzheimers for that snake? Or you can just give him the snake and he WON'T ship us to you LOL (rotten guy could have typed this himself rather than stand behind me laffing as I typed this!!!!)

I love pieds but i think that an albino pied would be so much cooler :)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Mike wants to know if you'd take a slightly used wife, 4 kids and one old cat with a raging case of alzheimers for that snake? Or you can just give him the snake and he WON'T ship us to you LOL (rotten guy could have typed this himself rather than stand behind me laffing as I typed this!!!!)

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LOL ... so many ways to go with this one, but I'll be good for a change :twisted: .... Thanks guys!!

-adam

For the love of God how did I forget to add a Piebald to my wish list!? Oh wait, I remember now, it's because I will never be able to afford one! Man though, they are so gorgeous! Adam, you are the man, hands down, no question about it bro!

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Originally Posted by Eddie_Z

Adam, you are the man, hands down, no question about it bro!

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It's your world baby, I'm just livin in it! ;)

Make sure you sing my praises to the future Mrs. Z .... that way I won't look like such a boner when you guys come down to visit! :D:D

(I really need all the help that I can get!!!)

-adam

albino pied would be neat.. but there something to be said for contrast!

Eddie - I'm sure given time the price of the pieds will become reasonable. :)

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Originally Posted by Shelby

albino pied would be neat.. but there something to be said for contrast!

Eddie - I'm sure given time the price of the pieds will become reasonable. :)

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Please tell me the same will be true for Leucistics. Black eyed, blue eyed, pink eyed... I'm not picky! :cool:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Please tell me the same will be true for Leucistics. Black eyed, blue eyed, pink eyed... I'm not picky! :cool:

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Ahhh .... but IMO leucistics is one place where a buyer should be picky ... For me, if I'm buying a white snake, I want an ALL WHITE snake ... having seen all of the various leucies in person, I can say without a doubt that a ball python that is solid white from it's nose to the tip of it's tail is a VERY impressive thing.

The price will come down ... give it time! :D

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I can say without a doubt that a ball python that is solid white from it's nose to the tip of it's tail is a VERY impressive thing.

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I agree, as would an all black ball if one ever gets discovered. BTW, I meant I wasn't picky with the color or their eyes. I suppose if I had my druthers I'd pick the blue eyed, but if and when they come down to an affordable price I don't think that would factor in my decision. Getting back to piebalds, that is pretty interesting that you never see one with a white head. I guess head color is determined differently from the rest of the body especially looking at some of the ther morphs and how they affect head color, or even other species like the black headed python.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I agree, as would an all black ball if one ever gets discovered.

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You should see the super cins!!!! ;)

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Getting back to piebalds, that is pretty interesting that you never see one with a white head. I guess head color is determined differently from the rest of the body especially looking at some of the ther morphs and how they affect head color, or even other species like the black headed python.

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Actually, seems pretty smart, not having a white head. Watching my ball pythons sitting with their heads hanging out of their hides it seems that all white would really stand out in the wild, while the white blotched body would be safe and secure "inside" the hide.

Just a crazy thing I think about when I'm cleaning cages at 2am! :P

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Make sure you sing my praises to the future Mrs. Z .... that way I won't look like such a boner when you guys come down to visit! :D:D

(I really need all the help that I can get!!!)

-adam

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LMAO! I dunno man, she is already scared of what might happen if the two of us actually get together in person. She HAS volunteered to be the designated driver though, for whatever that is worth!!

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Originally Posted by Eddie_Z

LMAO! I dunno man, she is already scared of what might happen if the two of us actually get together in person. She HAS volunteered to be the designated driver though, for whatever that is worth!!

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Cool, she can carry the bail money too!!! :twisted:

Tell her not to be afraid, I'm always gentle "the first time". :P

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

It's actually an autosomal dominant skin disorder in humans (yes, humans can be pied ... and het for pied as well) and has been documented in many genera. The lack of melanocytes in patches of skin on pieds is most likely caused during development of each skin cell when the presence of the homozygous allele(s) (28 alleles in the human condition) allows the cell to code either with melanocytes or without

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Speaking of human Pieds. My fiance has a skin condition (starts with a V...vitaligo ??) where she has patches of skin that lack melanocytes. It is genetic, she got hers from her grandmother. She was not born with the patches though...it is something that kinda develops with time. She has only started to see patches in the past 2 years or so. I think it is pretty cool....although she does not really like having white patches on her. I just had to tell her ''it makes you special, if you were a bp you would sell for thousands....where normal looking me would get sent to a pet shop and sold for $20''. She like that...then she wanted to know if she could have a pied bp...ha :)

That's cool that you're good with her vitiligo, Daniel. I know someone with that condition too, and she has naturally blond hair that has developed really cool white patches as a result of the vitiligo, but she's very self-conscious about it.

she is lucky it is not normally that noticable...due to her skin tone. When summer hits and she gets a tan...it becomes alot more noticable. no big deal. thats crazy...your friends hair color changes too...neato :)

Very nice as usual Adam!!!

What are you using to watermark your pics by the way?

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I agree, as would an all black ball if one ever gets discovered. BTW, I meant I wasn't picky with the color or their eyes. I suppose if I had my druthers I'd pick the blue eyed, but if and when they come down to an affordable price I don't think that would factor in my decision. Getting back to piebalds, that is pretty interesting that you never see one with a white head. I guess head color is determined differently from the rest of the body especially looking at some of the ther morphs and how they affect head color, or even other species like the black headed python.

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i think these guys came up with something that looks close too an all bblack ball http://www.morphkingreptiles.com/blackball.html

check it out.:) i think its awesome looking. Btw adam your pied is gorgeous!;)

Awesome Pied. Greg Grazani has a all super cinny aswell. It does have a white spot though. Here it is http://www.grazianireptiles.com/coll...uper_cinny.htm

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Originally Posted by HelicopterPilot

Awesome Pied. Greg Grazani has a all super cinny aswell. It does have a white spot though. Here it is http://www.grazianireptiles.com/coll...uper_cinny.htm

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There are quite a few super cinnies out there now. The picture on Gregs site is actually a "ringer" super cin.

-adam

I was guessing it was sumtin like that. So a normal super cinny would be all black correct.

In theory what would a albino super cinny look like. I am guessing an all white snake , no pattern ,but with pink eyes. Can it even be done.

Also what is up with the ringer?

OMG Adam, that is a beautiful snake. :) When I first started looking (drooling) at morph pics at the Kingsnake site, the pied was my absolute fav morph. I fell in love with the pattern. TO reach my goal I'll have to get a het male and wait (not so patiently) for 6 or so years but I will one day have a gorgeous pied BP for my very own. :D Thanks for contributing to my obsession. ;)

That is gorgeous. I love the pieds, and I like how yours is balanced-looking. I have to agree with Shelby on that one!

Adam, did you produce any pieds or hets this year? ....just wondering....I am about to start my pied venture :D

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Adam, did you produce any pieds or hets this year? ....just wondering....I am about to start my pied venture :D

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I have nothing left from 05 for sale, but I'll have plenty in late spring! ;)

-adam