Ethical Ball Python analog?

What is an ethical ball python analog? If some one has come out with an effective treatment for something is there a step before live specimens? I can't imagine human skin is close enough.


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Ummmmmm....? You're asking what do they test on to develop medical treatments for ball pythons? Why would testing on human skin be considered ethical? Or more ethical than something else?

How do they develop medical treatments for any animal? I assume they test on animals, just as they do in the early stages of human medicine. Do you consider that to be unethical?

A 17 year old child prodigy just found a cure for cancer in lab rats. I say thats ethical if it can be applied to humans. Does that count? Lol i dont totally understand the original question

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Originally Posted by JLC

Ummmmmm....? You're asking what do they test on to develop medical treatments for ball pythons? Why would testing on human skin be considered ethical? Or more ethical than something else?

How do they develop medical treatments for any animal? I assume they test on animals, just as they do in the early stages of human medicine. Do you consider that to be unethical?

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My point is I'm willing to try it on my arm, but that is worthless if it doesn't react similarly in the snake.


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What are you trying to do?

Well unless you are coldblooded and have scales i would say probablly not

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

My point is I'm willing to try it on my arm, but that is worthless if it doesn't react similarly in the snake.

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ahhh...so you're trying to figure out what YOU can test stuff on before applying it to your ball python?

I would say in that case, there is no ethical analog. You're correct that your own arm would not be very useful. Rather than trying to test unknown substances, I would suggest asking people with a lot of experience and training....like a vet.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

What are you trying to do?

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Im lost..

No a human is likely to react very differently than a reptile. I have never heard of a reasonable analogue for a snake but a snake. Ethics and experimentation with medicinal treatments rarely go hand in hand. Most medical advances are borne on the backs of animal deaths.

Same question what are you attempting and why?

I would use google instead of practicing on yourself

If youre trying to grow a tail, it wont work... Trust me...
lol

Kitedemon email me at dunnodagmail
Com for more info!


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No fair. You tease us then take it to private.

Basically I'm thinking of an all natural solution for mites, ticks, and another bug like creatures. If it works like I think it might it would be safe enough to use directly on the snake as a preventative measure, or to be used on every received snake.


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You mean something like reptile relief?

Two words...Test Patch.

For a topical treatment, no matter what the treatment is, always start with a test patch. And, if you want to try it on yourself first, I say rock and roll! If it irritates you, I wouldn't let it get within 100 feet of your snakes.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

You mean something like reptile relief?

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I guess kinda, but that stuff is still using a pesticide.


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If you do a lot of looking there is a large amount of data on pesticides done on brown snakes. They were trying to kill them with spraying but the research is sound, just backwards I would look for this data and then start there. I hope you have a background in chemistry as the things you don't know CAN hurt you.

Testing on yourself may or may not have the desired results look at P-A-M it is looking more and more that Permethrin is a human carcinogen, but there is no evidence that it has any carcinogenic effects on snakes.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

If you do a lot of looking there is a large amount of data on pesticides done on brown snakes. They were trying to kill them with spraying but the research is sound, just backwards I would look for this data and then start there. I hope you have a background in chemistry as the things you don't know CAN hurt you.

Testing on yourself may or may not have the desired results look at P-A-M it is looking more and more that Permethrin is a human carcinogen, but there is no evidence that it has any carcinogenic effects on snakes.

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I hear you. But the stuff I'm looking at is all natural extracts. In fact for MSDS or any other public docs I need only need to list proprietary herbal extract. Just think it would be a good idea to have something purely green, that at worse is a mild irritant, and that can be used with a semi cavalier attitude. Think I'd be able to get mites in a secure manner to test on?


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Permethrin is an extract of chrysanthemum. Natural and herbal does not mean safe. Be careful, I work with chemicals everyday a 'semi cavalier attitude' is never going to be a good idea, people are dumb with chem and "if a little works more will be better" is not going to be trained out of people at all.

Mites need a host. You would have to infect a snake.

All natural, or 'green' doesn't mean it's any safer than a chemical.

There is naturally occuring arsenic, and olenander is a highly toxic plant just by itself. Just because something is all natural doesn't mean it's harmless or won't kill a animal. Many pesticides are 'all natural' and harmless to the environment, yet still toxic to animals. Also, remember that many things that your skin would be fine with can harm your snake(pain killers in neosporin being a classic example). Cancer is all organic and natural.

Mites and ticks are very tough bugs. Things that kill them are bound to be toxic, or they wouldn't kill the bug. I applaud the idea, but doubt you'll find much useful.

I concur with the warnings given. "Natural" is not always better. Poison Ivy is natural and yet... well you know the outcome. Some herbs can be down right toxic to humans and my guess is snakes as well. Besides we are warm blooded animals and snakes are cold blooded. That's a huge difference so what will work for us is not likely to work on them.

I hear ya guys. I've just seen a combo of stuff that has been used on what I would consider to be much more delicate creatures and the bugs went crazy and died within seconds. I don't know just an idea floating around the dome! lol!

What you would think are delicate creatures doesnt mean alot unless you are a herpetologist or a wildlife biologist and know the makeup of said delicate creatures. There is a science involved when developing new things or treatments. As i applaud your desire to find something new to bring to the table it needs a little more then just trial and error. The products out on the market are good effective products. They just need to be used as directed