RI update/creeping paranoia

Norma is better with the higher heat and my regular vet is cramming on snake care before giving her the Baytril.
[I don't think he was very happy about touching her because her fear-jumping looked like potential 'strikes' to him, I suspect] but he couldn't hear anything with his stethoscope but I can 'feel' a rattle in her upper respiratory tract]

In the mean time, I'm losing my mind in the new normal of Hyper-vigilance Mode.

My Spider male was cruising a while ago and I took him out to give him a cuddle and after a few minutes of that, while his head was hanging down, liquid dripped out of his mouth.
My heart slammed to the floor.
O M G!....not him, too! :O

A few seconds later a tiny bit more leaked out and for the next half hour, nothing else happened and he seemed fine, being his usual, squirmy, upside dangling/climbing self.

I'd forgotten that he'd eaten late last night [because it wasn't his scheduled feeding night but I had a mouse left over and gave it to him] and now I'm wondering if while he was cruising, he didn't just take a post meal drink before I came out and saw him and barfed a bit of it up because he was desperately trying to go down the rungs of the kitchen bar stool, as usual.

It was very watery in consistency and evaporated on my fingers almost instantly, leaving no residue, unlike Norma's slimy stuff that feels slimy when wet and crusty when dry.

He seems to be himself, otherwise; very active and a huge PITA about *not* wrapping himself into a Gordian knot around the legs of the stool.

Couldn't 'feel anything' in his lungs.
He's in pink.

While all this is happening, Alice comes out of his hide and starts trying to get my attention.

Then...he... yawned.:O

Normally I wouldn't give that a thought because he's always been a very dramatic yawner, possibly behavior reinforced by the fact that I squeal like an idiot and haul him out for hugs when he does.

So I'm still holding Leon and watching Alice who's now sniffing his tree and fiddling around half-climbing it....and then he just stops and rests his head on it.

["OMG..NO! he can't breathe! He's holding his head because he's suffocating!!"]

But Alice always props his head on stuff.
He sleeps with his head on a flat stone pillow and gets pissy if the stone gets accidentally moved "out of place" and he can't lay his head on it without stretching for it.

He's a spoiled, fat, lazy lap snake who, if he were a person, would be Al Bundy.

[yes, his feeding schedule has been "adjusted" for the last month and he's not one bit happy about that]

During his two quick yawns, I didn't see anything scary.

[he's also very pink]

I'm going batty[er] watching everybody's breathing/moving/sleeping/yawning/moving/not moving/eating/not eating habits.

Sorry for venting/whining/raving but could Leon have simply gagged up a little water from being handled after a drink?

I had that happen once before after bringing a new snake home and putting her in a temp tub with water to drink until her permanent tub was ready.
I took her out to put her in her new home, not knowing she'd drank a lot and water shot of her mouth like a hose.

And, as lousy luck would have it, she is also the snake who has the RI now so I'm worrying the two events are connected or causative.

I wonder if this is what a nervous breakdown feels like....:weirdface

Anybody, please?

We're going to get her to a vet we were found clear up in PA ASAP.

The local deal isn't going very well.

We've had animals to the vets 4 times in the last 10 days and where we'll get the money, I have no idea but I need to do something, soon.

I wish I could help, I know that I would be going out of my mind worrying if this was happening to me. I have no first hand experience with RI but I would think that Leon probably just had water. My understanding of RI is that it is mucus that comes out of their mouth so even if it was mucus it isn't all infected and If he does have Ri it is very early on. AS I said at the beginning I have no experience with RI so take what I said with that grain of salt. I'm so sorry that you are going through this, and wish you the best of luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I wish I could help, I know that I would be going out of my mind worrying if this was happening to me. I have no first hand experience with RI but I would think that Leon probably just had water. My understanding of RI is that it is mucus that comes out of their mouth so even if it was mucus it isn't all infected and If he does have Ri it is very early on. AS I said at the beginning I have no experience with RI so take what I said with that grain of salt. I'm so sorry that you are going through this, and wish you the best of luck.

---

I just found posts on several sites about 'snake threw up water' and apparently they have no "valve" between their throat and stomach, as such and gagging up water after drinking/being handled is pretty common if the number of times people asked is any indication.

I'm just so afraid for my kids.
It's been a horrible few months for my critters, in general and this is overload.

:tears:

Thanks so very much for answering.

Hey there! I'm glad to hear Norma seems to be doing a bit better. RIs are probably one of the scariest things that can happen to a snake. I read your first post about it too. If you are concerned that the other kids might be exhibiting any signs of an RI, go ahead and preemptively up their heat just like you did Norma's. It won't hurt them, and if they are coming down with anything, it could change the outcome. I have never dealt with an RI in multiple animals before, only one but it was horrible. A good vet is key, and it stinks that you have to drive all the way to PA to see one. :/ The only thing I have to say about Baytril injections is that you will definitely want someone holding your baby down when you give them to her so she doesn't twitch and end up with the needle going somewhere you don't want it to.

I'm no expert, but I hope this helps a little. Someone more experienced may have some helpful info to add and I hope they get back to you soon. Again, keep a close eye on them all. RIs don't present the same way in every snake. Mine never had bubbles in her nose or anything, just started "coughing" one day. If you wanna see something that looks like a strike, you should see that! Lol. (I hope you never have to though).

Best of luck and I hope Norma gets to feeling better soon. :)

I'm going to be honest.. I didn't read your post all the way.. My eyes are killing me..

I will say one thing.. ONE THING!!

Just calm down... Take a step back and calm down.. a RI isn't IBD... Your snake will be okay most likely... You just need to calm down..okay dude? I know I freaked out when mine got a RI and I went CRAZY... In the end, I regret over-reacting so much, it clouded my judgement and I let my vet push me around and make her almost 2.6K richer.... Just calm down..Okay?

Well I read it..lol.. You're not going "crazy" as can be.. But still, just calm down a little! In the end, being so hectic only stresses you more..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WarriorPrincess90

Hey there! I'm glad to hear Norma seems to be doing a bit better. RIs are probably one of the scariest things that can happen to a snake. I read your first post about it too. If you are concerned that the other kids might be exhibiting any signs of an RI, go ahead and preemptively up their heat just like you did Norma's. It won't hurt them, and if they are coming down with anything, it could change the outcome. I have never dealt with an RI in multiple animals before, only one but it was horrible. A good vet is key, and it stinks that you have to drive all the way to PA to see one. :/ The only thing I have to say about Baytril injections is that you will definitely want someone holding your baby down when you give them to her so she doesn't twitch and end up with the needle going somewhere you don't want it to.

I'm no expert, but I hope this helps a little. Someone more experienced may have some helpful info to add and I hope they get back to you soon. Again, keep a close eye on them all. RIs don't present the same way in every snake. Mine never had bubbles in her nose or anything, just started "coughing" one day. If you wanna see something that looks like a strike, you should see that! Lol. (I hope you never have to though).

Best of luck and I hope Norma gets to feeling better soon. :)

---

They've all already been bumped up and they're grumpy about it.
They liked their 90 degrees and for whatever reason, 2 or 3 *more* degrees puts them in a collective snit.
They're all in their cool side hides except the ones who are currently pink.

Giving the shots scares the bejeebers outta me.
Norma's not exactly what you'd call a people person anyway and she's totally squirmy when out.

She doesn't "twitch", she flails about wildly.

I may have to stick her in a cardboard mailing tube to do it. :O
[I'm terrified I'll go straight through her whole neck!]

I'm really starting to wonder if she doesn't have inhalation pneumonia after that episode of shooting water out of herself like a hose.
A lot came out that night and I thought sure she'd "thrown up".

I took her out tonight to clean her tub, water bowl and herself and she was squirming everywhere and it seems that hanging upside down makes the runny stuff come out more.
Is it possible to "drain your snake" [oh, shut up, you menfolk! LOL] and help her expel some of it?

The more that came out, the happier she seemed to be.
[to the point that she leaned out, grabbed the toilet paper hanger and started a daring climb up the side of the glass shower door...she was acting limp and blah, before]

She blew some more bubbles and seemed relieved.

Possible it helps a bit?

If I'm given oral meds, how on earth do you make a snake swallow nasty antibiotics?
I haven't even accomplished getting her mouth open, yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeion97

I'm going to be honest.. I didn't read your post all the way.. My eyes are killing me..

I will say one thing.. ONE THING!!

Just calm down... Take a step back and calm down.. a RI isn't IBD... Your snake will be okay most likely... You just need to calm down..okay dude? I know I freaked out when mine got a RI and I went CRAZY... In the end, I regret over-reacting so much, it clouded my judgement and I let my vet push me around and make her almost 2.6K richer.... Just calm down..Okay?

Well I read it..lol.. You're not going "crazy" as can be.. But still, just calm down a little! In the end, being so hectic only stresses you more..

---

Thank you......:D
[and I'm a dudette so I'm allowed to freak out a little extra]....LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Salamander

They've all already been bumped up and they're grumpy about it.
They liked their 90 degrees and for whatever reason, 2 or 3 *more* degrees puts them in a collective snit.
They're all in their cool side hides except the ones who are currently pink.

Giving the shots scares the bejeebers outta me.
Norma's not exactly what you'd call a people person anyway and she's totally squirmy when out.

She doesn't "twitch", she flails about wildly.

I may have to stick her in a cardboard mailing tube to do it. :O
[I'm terrified I'll go straight through her whole neck!]

I'm really starting to wonder if she doesn't have inhalation pneumonia after that episode of shooting water out of herself like a hose.
A lot came out that night and I thought sure she'd "thrown up".

I took her out tonight to clean her tub, water bowl and herself and she was squirming everywhere and it seems that hanging upside down makes the runny stuff come out more.
Is it possible to "drain your snake" [oh, shut up, you menfolk! LOL] and help her expel some of it?

The more that came out, the happier she seemed to be.
[to the point that she leaned out, grabbed the toilet paper hanger and started a daring climb up the side of the glass shower door...she was acting limp and blah, before]

She blew some more bubbles and seemed relieved.

Possible it helps a bit?

If I'm given oral meds, how on earth do you make a snake swallow nasty antibiotics?
I haven't even accomplished getting her mouth open, yet.

---

Lol! I love the way you describe things.But on a more serious note, I don't know that it's possible to drain your snake, nor am I familiar with inhalation pneumonia. (It sounds terrible though. Lol) The only thing out of the ordinary my vet had me do was soak my snake in lukewarm water for an hour every day. 30 minutes Inge morning and 30 minutes in the evening to keep her hydrated and help her cough it up I guess? As to the Baytril injections, the needle isn't long enough to go straight through, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. But it is long enough to do serious damage if not angled correctly. The shots were administered in the front half of the body, in the more dorsal part of the side at a 45ish degree angle. It's a very small angle anyway. The needle goes in between the scales. So I'm not sure if you'd be able to do a tube. My fiancé had to pin my girl down and hold her tight because she struggled with everything she had. Lol. I would then hold the part of her I was injecting with one hand to keep her still ish and inject with the other hand. It was very nerve racking every single time, and she was none to pleased with me. Lol.

I wouldn't do oral meds. Injections are much more effective and faster acting. Not to mention, you can't garauntee that the snake would keep down oral meds. Little boogers. :rolleyes:

Sorry if I didn't cover everything or if my post contains atrocious spelling errors. I'm writing from my phone. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WarriorPrincess90

Lol! I love the way you describe things.But on a more serious note, I don't know that it's possible to drain your snake, nor am I familiar with inhalation pneumonia. (It sounds terrible though. Lol) The only thing out of the ordinary my vet had me do was soak my snake in lukewarm water for an hour every day. 30 minutes Inge morning and 30 minutes in the evening to keep her hydrated and help her cough it up I guess? As to the Baytril injections, the needle isn't long enough to go straight through, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. But it is long enough to do serious damage if not angled correctly. The shots were administered in the front half of the body, in the more dorsal part of the side at a 45ish degree angle. It's a very small angle anyway. The needle goes in between the scales. So I'm not sure if you'd be able to do a tube. My fiancé had to pin my girl down and hold her tight because she struggled with everything she had. Lol. I would then hold the part of her I was injecting with one hand to keep her still ish and inject with the other hand. It was very nerve racking every single time, and she was none to pleased with me. Lol.

I wouldn't do oral meds. Injections are much more effective and faster acting. Not to mention, you can't garauntee that the snake would keep down oral meds. Little boogers. :rolleyes:

Sorry if I didn't cover everything or if my post contains atrocious spelling errors. I'm writing from my phone. :P

---

Are you using an iPhone?
My "auto correct" has a filthy mind.
I triple check before I hit 'send' lest the police come after me for transmitting obscenities over the airwaves.

Inhalation pneumonia is simply having liquid 'go down the wrong tube' and in critters who can't "cough" it up properly, such as rats, it can turn into pneumonia.

With much trepidation and dread, I will soak her tomorrow night.
[in the bathroom where her hysterical splashing and flopping won't so so much damage...we've been through a stuck shed/water torture ordeal before] :O

Since I've only seen her sipping water since she got sick, re-hydration sounds like a wonderful idea.

Thank you!

[and I'm glad you enjoy my bizarrely detailed rants].....:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Salamander

Anybody, please?

We're going to get her to a vet we were found clear up in PA ASAP.

The local deal isn't going very well.

We've had animals to the vets 4 times in the last 10 days and where we'll get the money, I have no idea but I need to do something, soon.

---

If you don't mind me asking, which vet in PA are you going to see?

Ok, that all took much longer to read than I expected, but here's a few thoughts.

1) Snakes can't cough mucous out of their lungs, so soaking is just for hydration.

2) When people talk about raising temps a few degrees, it's ambient, not the hot spot, so the air they are breathing is actually warmer.

3) Do not accept oral antibiotics - injectable only. The slow rate of snakes' metabolism does not allow them to absorb and utilize oral abx nearly as effectively.

4) If you're uncertain about injecting him/her yourself, have the vet either demonstrate the first shot for you, or even better, supervise you doing it yourself the first time.

5) Definitely sounds like your spider just drained a recent drink of water onto you.

6) Consider your sick snake to be in QT - separate tools, feeders, bowls, sponges, washing thoroughly and changing shirts between handling it and your other BPS, etc. If at all possible, do NOT handle your healthy animals on the same day you are working with the sick one.

7) With your multiple vet visits, did you ever get a culture done to know what you are actually fighting in the RI? What were the other four visits for?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr

If you don't mind me asking, which vet in PA are you going to see?

---

Some vet in Shippensburg.
It's the only clinic within reasonable distance who sees herps.

I hate taking her that far and for that long because even just the short little trip [8 miles] to our vet Tuesday caused her to have a setback....:(

It's just too cold here, even with her heat pack keeping her trasport tub as warm as possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annarose15

Ok, that all took much longer to read than I expected, but here's a few thoughts.

1) Snakes can't cough mucous out of their lungs, so soaking is just for hydration.

2) When people talk about raising temps a few degrees, it's ambient, not the hot spot, so the air they are breathing is actually warmer.

3) Do not accept oral antibiotics - injectable only. The slow rate of snakes' metabolism does not allow them to absorb and utilize oral abx nearly as effectively.

4) If you're uncertain about injecting him/her yourself, have the vet either demonstrate the first shot for you, or even better, supervise you doing it yourself the first time.

5) Definitely sounds like your spider just drained a recent drink of water onto you.

6) Consider your sick snake to be in QT - separate tools, feeders, bowls, sponges, washing thoroughly and changing shirts between handling it and your other BPS, etc. If at all possible, do NOT handle your healthy animals on the same day you are working with the sick one.

7) With your multiple vet visits, did you ever get a culture done to know what you are actually fighting in the RI? What were the other four visits for?

---

Sorry.
The Irish are nothing if not gabby.

She's on the other side of the house, far from the other snakes and other than peeking in the tub but not touching her or the tub, she's the last snake tended every day.
[and except for tub scrubs or feeding, nobody's being played with, with the singuar exception of Leon's outing, just in case...I peek through the tops to check for messes, talk to them a bit and go on to the next tub]

Thanks to the dollar store, I now have a lifetime supply of hand sanitizer.....:(

She was not cultured as our normal vet is not snake savvy but is trying to study and become so for the future.

The other visits were for one of my dogs who died last week, another dog whose Thyroid tests were due, the same dog again for a hygroma which popped up 2 days after he went for thyro tests and then the trip for Norma.

And now as I was typing this, my regular vet just called and is going to start her shots tomorrow.

I'll ask him about cultures, then.

Bless his heart, he's been studying all the "sick snake info" I sent him....:)

I have hope!

:)

I have to go find a smaller transport tub and a clean snake sack to put her in so she stays as warm as possible tomorrow.

Wish us luck!

[and thanks for the reassurance about Leon...you know how lovable Spiders are and he's one of my very favorite snakes]

:oops:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Salamander

Are you using an iPhone?
My "auto correct" has a filthy mind.
I triple check before I hit 'send' lest the police come after me for transmitting obscenities over the airwaves.

Inhalation pneumonia is simply having liquid 'go down the wrong tube' and in critters who can't "cough" it up properly, such as rats, it can turn into pneumonia.

With much trepidation and dread, I will soak her tomorrow night.
[in the bathroom where her hysterical splashing and flopping won't so so much damage...we've been through a stuck shed/water torture ordeal before] :O

Since I've only seen her sipping water since she got sick, re-hydration sounds like a wonderful idea.

Thank you!

[and I'm glad you enjoy my bizarrely detailed rants].....:D

---

I am using an iPhone! While I love the capabilities of the thing, the autocorrect drives me insane sometimes! It changes valid words to things I've never heard of or that make absolutely no sense! For instance, when I try to type boas I get bias, and vet turns into get. Lol. Darn thing. But I also get upset when it doesn't fix my mistakes while typing quickly, so in the end I suppose it's worth it.

Keep us (turned into bus...lol) updated on Norma! And on how that soaking goes...:P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Salamander

Sorry.
The Irish are nothing if not gabby.

She's on the other side of the house, far from the other snakes and other than peeking in the tub but not touching her or the tub, she's the last snake tended every day.
[and except for tub scrubs or feeding, nobody's being played with, with the singuar exception of Leon's outing, just in case...I peek through the tops to check for messes, talk to them a bit and go on to the next tub]

Thanks to the dollar store, I now have a lifetime supply of hand sanitizer.....:(

She was not cultured as our normal vet is not snake savvy but is trying to study and become so for the future.

The other visits were for one of my dogs who died last week, another dog whose Thyroid tests were due, the same dog again for a hygroma which popped up 2 days after he went for thyro tests and then the trip for Norma.

And now as I was typing this, my regular vet just called and is going to start her shots tomorrow.

I'll ask him about cultures, then.

Bless his heart, he's been studying all the "sick snake info" I sent him....:)

I have hope!

:)

I have to go find a smaller transport tub and a clean snake sack to put her in so she stays as warm as possible tomorrow.

Wish us luck!

[and thanks for the reassurance about Leon...you know how lovable Spiders are and he's one of my very favorite snakes]

:oops:

---

No worries on the chattiness :) My sympathies on your pup that passed. I was confused that ALL of the visits were for snakes, but now I see. When it rains, it pours. I have a dog that's hypothyroid, so I feel your pain there. Getting a culture will help the vet target what "bug" is at work and choose the right antibiotic to treat it. As for a tub to transport, I would use a cardboard box (with styro inserts if you have them, shredded paper if you don't). Basically, pack her like she's being shipped. The cardboard will hold heat a little better than a plastic tub.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WarriorPrincess90

I am using an iPhone! While I love the capabilities of the thing, the autocorrect drives me insane sometimes! It changes valid words to things I've never heard of or that make absolutely no sense! For instance, when I try to type boas I get bias, and vet turns into get. Lol. Darn thing. But I also get upset when it doesn't fix my mistakes while typing quickly, so in the end I suppose it's worth it.

Keep us (turned into bus...lol) updated on Norma! And on how that soaking goes...:P

---

There's a website devoted to silly auto-corrections.
I'll try to find it.

Norma had a bad night so there was no soak....:(

We go get her first shot in an hour so hopefully she'll start getting better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annarose15

No worries on the chattiness :) My sympathies on your pup that passed. I was confused that ALL of the visits were for snakes, but now I see. When it rains, it pours. I have a dog that's hypothyroid, so I feel your pain there. Getting a culture will help the vet target what "bug" is at work and choose the right antibiotic to treat it. As for a tub to transport, I would use a cardboard box (with styro inserts if you have them, shredded paper if you don't). Basically, pack her like she's being shipped. The cardboard will hold heat a little better than a plastic tub.

---

You're brilliant!
I have a shipping box I saved with all the styro inserts intact!
Perfect!

Thank you!

Sorry about your thyro dog.
It's a never ending balancing act, isn't it?

If you haven't already, go visit Dr Jean Dodd's website.

http://www.hemopet.org

She is THE thyroid expert.

The dog who passed had been a train wreck since she was born.
She was the runt of the litter and the idiot greeder who bred her did not separate her from the other pups and she couldn't compete for food so she lived on their poop mixed in with pine shavings.
She had the worst load of coccidia my vet had ever seen and every other worm known to dogkind.
We spent $300 on her in the first 2 hours off the plane, just to keep her from dying before we got home.
[hypothermia, shock, dehydration, erratic heart rhythm, etc etc etc]
At 3 months old, she weighed 12 pounds when she should have weighed 20...or more.
It's a miracle she lived almost 10 years.
She was at the vet more times than all my other dogs, combined.
I took this photo the first night she was home because we didn't know if she was even going to make through the night.

http://darkridenet.fatcow.com/ibizans/PHOEBENEW3.jpg

I feel terrible that I couldn't fix what had been broken in the first 90 days of her life but sometimes, they get so damaged that early on that they're never really 'right' again.

She did have a run of a few years where she was doing pretty well.

She was a lovely, lively, happy in spite of it all dog and is greatly missed.

"Phoebe"

http://darkridenet.fatcow.com/ibizan...snow2_copy.jpg

Sorry.

Being gabby again.

:(