2,5 years later, finally seeing if I'm doing ok. Setup and shedding questions.

Hey guys,

I bought a baby pastel ball python in September of 2009. This little girl (named Cleo) is my first ever snake, and boy has it been a wild ride. :O I started her out in a 40 gallon breeder, and she is now in a custom setup. However, for the two and a half years that I've had her, I've never seen her do a "complete" shed. All of her skin comes off, but it takes her days to complete and it comes off in patches. Also, her skin is "loose" and "wrinkly" around her neck area. I never really gave it much thought, since I believed her to be in excellent health. She never refuses food, and I try and feed her every weekend. (Although I have gone as much as three weeks without feeding her. I know that's bad. :( )

Anyway, I'm realizing how much of an idiot I am/was to just assume that my snake and setup is as best as it can be, which is why I am now turning to the experts. I bought her as a baby, and she is about 2.5 years old, and about 38" long. Is this normal? Too small? Shedding - Is the patches normal? Do I need more moisture in the setup? How can I achieve this with my setup? Wrinkles - Is this bad? Dehydration? How can I improve this?



I'm attaching a couple pictures so you guys can get a decent idea of my snake and setup. The setup is pretty big; I always go overboard for all of my animals. (You should see the bearded dragon setup next to it! :D) I read on the site today that BP's don't like a big enclosure; mine seems to immensely enjoy the space. She's constantly roaming and climbing at night time, and sleeping during the day. Any suggestions for changing around the enclosure? I need to add a hygrometer, or w/e they're called, since I have no idea the moisture level in the tank. (I know, I know...another sin, but at least I know now and I'm fixing it!) I also want to try my hand at breeding her, but I want at least a solid year of optimal conditions before I try something like that.



Enclosure and snake:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-26-56_824.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...2-28-41_27.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-18-46_968.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-21-23_652.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-28-51_929.jpg

I just have a few thoughts on your setup. You should replace the dial thermostat with a digital one. They are much more accurate. Ball pythons are also terrestrial and I'm surprised your girl climbs up to the top. Mine are horrible climbers and would have kept falling down. Do you know what the temps are at all of the different levels?

As for shedding, bad sheds are a sign of the humidity being too low. This may be a result of how you have your cage setup up. You can try misting her when she sheds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I just have a few thoughts on your setup. You should replace the dial thermostat with a digital one. They are much more accurate. Will do! Ball pythons are also terrestrial and I'm surprised your girl climbs up to the top. Mine are horrible climbers and would have kept falling down. She's an awesome climber, and loves to climb! I used to have a 24" fluorescent bulb in the top left side of the enclosure, but I had to take it down because she kept climbing up to it and wedging herself inbetween the light and the top lol. I was worried she would fall, because there isn't a little ledge to catch her under the light. Do you know what the temps are at all of the different levels? No clue. Think I should pick up multiple digital thermometers and have them running out the sides, one on each level?

As for shedding, bad sheds are a sign of the humidity being too low. This may be a result of how you have your cage setup up. You can try misting her when she sheds.:( I was worried about that. I'll work on misting her. I also, for the longest time, didn't have a water source for her 24/7. I realized recently that this is really REALLY bad. I guess I'm just used to Bearded Dragons.

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Welcome to BP.net! This is a great place of information and I hope you can absorb it all lol. You may want to start by looking on the ball pythons caresheet, but here are a few of my opinions:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...thon-CARESHEET

HUMIDITY
You definitely need a water source 24/7...it will help keep humidity a little if it is a larger bowl. As for humidity, you can try misting the elcosure but thats a VERY big enclosure to try to keep humid and I don't know if the wood has been treated so it will not mold :confused:. Your humidity needs to be between 50-60%. With the heat lamp sucking your humidity out I'm going to guess you have about 10-15% humidity :( Your best bet would be to make humid hides, that is take some sphagnum moss, wet it, and place it in a corner of her hide, this should at least keep her humidity up enough so she will shed better. If you go to Wal-Mart you can get a thermometer/hygrometer for $8.00 so you can measure your air temps and humidity levels.

HEAT
Do you have any other source of heat besides the lamp? And what are the temps? Balls do better with belly heat, so I would advise you getting an under tank heater (uth) with a thermostat to regulate the heat. Otherwise the uth will get too hot and burn your snake. You can get a cheap thermostat from amazon http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...8715644&sr=8-1.

But IMO...that enclosure is MUCH too large and open. I would put her in a 40 gallon long if you have to have her visible, along with a uth on a thermostat, I think she would be happier and healthier that way, and it would be a lot easier keeping the husbandry up for you!

Thats just my :2cent:

I absolutely agree with all the comments so far. Here's my add-on: What is your feeding schedule and prey size? She looks small for 2.5 years old. Length doesn't matter nearly as much as weight. There is no set in stone size they should be, but my guess is that she is either a male, or underfed. Get a digital kitchen scale ($25 at Walmart) and weigh her monthly or so (keep a record). This will help you know when to worry if she goes off feed, and when she is getting up to breeding size (general rule of thumb is 1200-1500g, since she will be old enough next winter, just needs to put on weight).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pigfat

Welcome to BP.net! This is a great place of information and I hope you can absorb it all lol. You may want to start by looking on the ball pythons caresheet, but here are a few of my opinions:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...thon-CARESHEET

HUMIDITY
You definitely need a water source 24/7...it will help keep humidity a little if it is a larger bowl. As for humidity, you can try misting the elcosure but thats a VERY big enclosure to try to keep humid and I don't know if the wood has been treated so it will not mold :confused:. Your humidity needs to be between 50-60%. With the heat lamp sucking your humidity out I'm going to guess you have about 10-15% humidity :( Your best bet would be to make humid hides, that is take some sphagnum moss, wet it, and place it in a corner of her hide, this should at least keep her humidity up enough so she will shed better. If you go to Wal-Mart you can get a thermometer/hygrometer for $8.00 so you can measure your air temps and humidity levels.

HEAT
Do you have any other source of heat besides the lamp? And what are the temps? Balls do better with belly heat, so I would advise you getting an under tank heater (uth) with a thermostat to regulate the heat. Otherwise the uth will get too hot and burn your snake. You can get a cheap thermostat from amazon http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...8715644&sr=8-1.

But IMO...that enclosure is MUCH too large and open. I would put her in a 40 gallon long if you have to have her visible, along with a uth on a thermostat, I think she would be happier and healthier that way, and it would be a lot easier keeping the husbandry up for you!

Thats just my :2cent:

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:(:(:(:(

I love the look of this enclosure. I think it looks amazing, and soooo much better than a 40 breeder or plastic tank. I really do not want to get rid of it, how can I make it work? I will buy one of the monster corner water dishes and keep it filled 24/7 to try and get the humidity up, as well as buying some gauges to see what the temps are at the different levels and the humidity levels. I'll let you guys know in a week or so, after I know all my levels. I do have an UTH on the middle section, under the rock cave. That is definitely her favorite spot, and where she always sleeps. I can cut out a longer shelf for the middle part, and add more cover for her.

Again, I really do not want to have to get rid of this enclosure.


THAT BEING SAID: The animal's health is what counts. I just want to be perfectly clear on this one - I care more about the animals health and wellbeing than the look of the enclosure. If I can get her healthy in this enclosure, that would be ideal. If I have to set up a new enclosure, with plastic instead of glass + wood, I will be angry at you guys and pout and piss & moan, but I will do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

I absolutely agree with all the comments so far. Here's my add-on: What is your feeding schedule and prey size? She looks small for 2.5 years old. Length doesn't matter nearly as much as weight. There is no set in stone size they should be, but my guess is that she is either a male, or underfed. Get a digital kitchen scale ($25 at Walmart) and weigh her monthly or so (keep a record). This will help you know when to worry if she goes off feed, and when she is getting up to breeding size (general rule of thumb is 1200-1500g, since she will be old enough next winter, just needs to put on weight).

---

Feeding her small/medium F/T rats, try to do it every weekend. I need to get more on schedule with it.:(

I hate to tell you, but unless you rig up some kind of automatic humidifying system you'll never be able to maintain proper humidity levels in an enclosure that big. Misting is not a long term solution. Works great for Green Tree Pythons, not so much for BPs. Every BP I've ever had shed in one piece more than 90% of the time. Any thing else is unusual and a sure sign your humidity is not right.

The reason your BP was climbing up and into the light was to get warm....another problem with the type of set up you have. In an enclosure that large maintaining proper heat gradients and warm/ cool hides can be problematic. Are you using any type of heat other than over head?

Finally, BPs are not terestrial snakes. Younger ones can be quite adept at climbing, but again, it's not a long term solution. Healthy BPs become quite heavy bodied as they grow into adulthood. In my experience, 3000 gram BPs don't climb very well at all. But then again, Mom Nature didn't design them to.

You might be able to get that cage to work for you, but you really will be better off putting her in the 40gal or designing a different enclosure that is only one level. I've seen some really nice custom cages that work better. Humid hides might help her shed, but you really should consider changing to a single level cage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

I hate to tell you, but unless you rig up some kind of automatic humidifying system you'll never be able to maintain proper humidity levels in an enclosure that big. Misting is not a long term solution. Works great for Green Tree Pythons, not so much for BPs. Every BP I've ever had shed in one piece more than 90% of the time. Any thing else is unusual and a sure sign your humidity is not right.

The reason your BP was climbing up and into the light was to get warm....another problem with the type of set up you have. In an enclosure that large maintaining proper heat gradients and warm/ cool hides can be problematic. Are you using any type of heat other than over head?

Finally, BPs are not terestrial snakes. Younger ones can be quite adept at climbing, but again, it's not a long term solution. Healthy BPs become quite heavy bodied as they grow into adulthood. In my experience, 3000 gram BPs don't climb very well at all. But then again, Mom Nature didn't design them to.

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BPs ARE terrestrial, they are not arboreal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rmorse

:(:(:(:(

I love the look of this enclosure. I think it looks amazing, and soooo much better than a 40 breeder or plastic tank. I really do not want to get rid of it, how can I make it work? I will buy one of the monster corner water dishes and keep it filled 24/7 to try and get the humidity up, as well as buying some gauges to see what the temps are at the different levels and the humidity levels. I'll let you guys know in a week or so, after I know all my levels. I do have an UTH on the middle section, under the rock cave. That is definitely her favorite spot, and where she always sleeps. I can cut out a longer shelf for the middle part, and add more cover for her.

Again, I really do not want to have to get rid of this enclosure.


THAT BEING SAID: The animal's health is what counts. I just want to be perfectly clear on this one - I care more about the animals health and wellbeing than the look of the enclosure. If I can get her healthy in this enclosure, that would be ideal. If I have to set up a new enclosure, with plastic instead of glass + wood, I will be angry at you guys and pout and piss & moan, but I will do it.

---

I agree that this enclosure does look really nice...BUT...the real question is will you bbe able to keep the correct husbandry needs. Slim brought up a good point I forgot, that there needs to be a temperature gradient. 88-92 on the hot side and 77-85 on the cool side. If you can't do this in this enclosure then you would be better off going with a large aquarium if you want to show it off. I've seen some really great ones on youtube that look really great. Get your thermometer/hygrometer and try keeping humidity up to 50% for a week and see if you can make it work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rmorse

Feeding her small/medium F/T rats, try to do it every weekend. I need to get more on schedule with it.:(

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That's about right, so maybe I'm just off on how she looks to me (that's why a scale is useful, too, so you don't have to "eyeball" her weight), or she might be a slower grower. She certainly doesn't look unhealthy, by any means. As for the cage, try meeting the recommendations on the care sheet for temps and humidity. If you can, great; if you can't, set her up in a single level terrarium or tub and get something new for the fancy cage! :gj:

You could always put a lizzard or something in that setup? Just a thought if you cant get the correct husbandry for you bp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kinra

BPs ARE terrestrial, they are not arboreal.

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Yes they are. I was in the middle of typing that BPs are not aboreal, but couldn't figure out how to spell aboreal so I switched it the negative but forgot to reverse the sentence...I hate it when work gets in the way of BP.net.

Thank you for correcting that mistake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

I hate it when work gets in the way of BP.net.

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:8: :rofl: Ditto! :rofl: :8:

Ok guys, check this out....I just ran home during my lunch break and snapped a couple more pictures of the enclosure using my phone.

The tank DOES have two heat sources - an undertank heater and a heat lamp, both are on 24/7. Here is a pic of the UTH:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-08-24_711.jpg

And here is a pic of how hot it gets under the bulb, with the crappy dial thermometer:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-07-39_687.jpg


Ok. So. Here is what I'm thinking of, to try and make this work. Let me know if this will work or if it's feasible.

The sides of the enclosure are glass, with one spot of plastic w/ holes for ventilation. EACH piece of glass CAN BE REMOVED:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-07-48_868.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-07-57_619.jpg

So, what I'm thinking is - Leave the big front doors glass. Remove the glass on the sides of the enclosure and replaced them with Melamine. Extend both the middle and the top shelf almost all the way across, with a small access hole for Cleo to get between the two levels. Have undertank heaters on the left side of both upper levels, small/medium water dishes on both upper levels, and the GIANT corner water dish (You know the one - the massive one) on the bottom right corner.

I attached a sketch I drew up in paint. Please, no reproduction without my expressed consent. I know, I know, you're probably thinking "Damn those pictures would look good on my fridge", but please....ask first.



The grey parts is where Melamine will go:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...3/Cleoside.jpg

The red is where the shelves will go, with the break in the line being the access holes. The blue is water, and the black is under tank heaters:

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/.../Cleofront.jpg



Whatcha think? Will that be able to:
A) retain humidity
B) less climbing, more zoomin'
C) better temperature grades

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

Yes they are. I was in the middle of typing that BPs are not aboreal, but couldn't figure out how to spell aboreal so I switched it the negative but forgot to reverse the sentence...I hate it when work gets in the way of BP.net.

Thank you for correcting that mistake.

---

Lol, you had me second guessing myself for a minute. I had to use google. :P

I would take off the bottom doors on that cabinet, and put in 3 shelves w/ flexwatt. Get 3 tubs and put ur pastel in one of them. Get 2 more bps and put them in the other 2 tubs ;). Then get a hogg island boa or some species of snake that actually likes to climb and put it in the top enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I would take off the bottom doors on that cabinet, and put in 3 shelves w/ flexwatt. Get 3 tubs and put ur pastel in one of them. Get 2 more bps and put them in the other 2 tubs ;). Then get a hogg island boa or some species of snake that actually likes to climb and put it in the top enclosure.

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I was actually also thinking of making the top part a solid three shelves, and throw in two more BPs....And the best part? My girlfriend is suprisingly OK with this. :D

Looks like your getting some good help on changing over to something more workable for the animal but one thing you said was that the 2 heat sources are left on 24/7. Does that mean you dont have a timer shutting them off at night or are they unregulated by a thermostat? If not regulated by a thermostat it could lead to problems for the snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HerpIsAhobby

Looks like your getting some good help on changing over to something more workable for the animal but one thing you said was that the 2 heat sources are left on 24/7. Does that mean you dont have a timer shutting them off at night or are they unregulated by a thermostat? If not regulated by a thermostat it could lead to problems for the snake.

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Correct, they are left on and unregulated. I'll look into picking up a thermostat as well; that one on Amazon that was posted earlier looks promising.

The setup looks very good in imo, would be a pity to put tubs in it. As someone else suggested, get a proper tub for the bp and get an arboreal snake for the cabinet. Irian jaya carpet comes to mind.

/E

I'm not trying to argue with you guys, but is there any way my sketch will work? Or, would it be better to divide the enclosure into three?

If not, then yea, I will definitely look into converting the bottom into a snake/tub rack. I have never messed with racks before; they look so small and uncomfortable. :( I also don't understand how people can say the snake needs temperature gradient, water, and at least two hides, plus enough room for the snake to stretch completely out, and then say one of those rubbermaid containers will work. :confused: What am I missing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rmorse

I'm not trying to argue with you guys, but is there any way my sketch will work? Or, would it be better to divide the enclosure into three?

If not, then yea, I will definitely look into converting the bottom into a snake/tub rack. I have never messed with racks before; they look so small and uncomfortable. :( I also don't understand how people can say the snake needs temperature gradient, water, and at least two hides, plus enough room for the snake to stretch completely out, and then say one of those rubbermaid containers will work. :confused: What am I missing?

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If you are going to use an open cage like yours they need places to hide. Tubs are not as open. I use a snake rack and mine have room to stretch out, a temperature gradient and water. You wouldn't keep and adult ball python in a 15qt tub. I use 41qt tubs for mine and they have plenty of room. A happy ball python is going to stay put most of the time so they don't need huge enclosures. I think your best bet is to split the cage into three separate levels. You will find it's much easier to take care of them and they will be happier. Your girl might be good a climbing, but she shouldn't be. They are ground dwellers not tree climbers.

AHHHHH. :( I'm starting to feel really really overwhelmed with all of this. Don't really know what the best way to approach this is.

Kinra: You say divide it into three sections. I'm good with this, plus that means I can drop in three balls. How do I heat them? I looked at this heat flux wire, or whatever it's called, and it seems cool but I'm also a bit confused by it.

Ok guys. So I have 1000000 ideas running through my head, but don't know what to do. Help me out here. Here's what I'm thinking:

Divide it completely into three melamine wrapped sections. Basically, the wood outside of the enclosure is just a pretty wrap - the inside of the enclosure will be three melamine sections, stacked on each other, with the two front doors the front of all three. Seems like a lot of work, and a lot of things to go wrong.

Make the two levels (mid and high) with looooong shelves. Essentially dividing it into three sections without REALLY dividing it into three sections. Cleo can go inbetween each three if she pleases, other wise just chills in the one section she likes the most. Still replace the sides with melamine or something that will retain humidity and heat a bit better than glass.

Convert the bottom section of the enclosure into a rack/tub section, and get a friendly small snake that likes to climb for the top. I don't REALLY want to do this though; I love balls (snicker) and want to stay with them. I would probably end up getting rid of my enclosure and buying/building a rack before getting a different species.


:mad::mad::mad::mad:


What do I do??? Is anyone in the Maryland area willing to give me a hand with this, or at least get me started? I'm really overwhelmed and confused now.

There are a lot of different things you can do, and I wouldn't try them all at once.

The first thing I would do is get digital thermostats and put a piece of melamine on the second level to limit her to the first level of the cage and see if your temperatures are correct using the digital thermostat. If your temps are okay from there I would work on getting the humidity to where you need it. Putting the water dish over part of the heat pad should help with that.

If you can get one level correct, then you can convert the other two levels into addition cages for two more ball pythons. :)

Don't try too much at once, that's when you get overwhelm. Break things into smaller steps and work from there. Good luck. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kinra

There are a lot of different things you can do, and I wouldn't try them all at once.

The first thing I would do is get digital thermostats and put a piece of melamine on the second level to limit her to the first level of the cage and see if your temperatures are correct using the digital thermostat. If your temps are okay from there I would work on getting the humidity to where you need it. Putting the water dish over part of the heat pad should help with that.

If you can get one level correct, then you can convert the other two levels into addition cages for two more ball pythons. :)

Don't try too much at once, that's when you get overwhelm. Break things into smaller steps and work from there. Good luck. :)

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Ok. I'll try. When you say "put a piece of melamine on the second level to limit her to the first level of the cage", do you mean so she is at the absolute bottom of the tank? Or do you mean for me to put the melamine as a shelf where the rock cave and under tank heater is, and so you block off the absolute bottom of the tank, and she stays on top of the melamine?

Hey, glass will retain moisture very well, it doesnt HAVE to be melamine. The thing thats killing your humidity is the heat lamp. Kinra is awesome, and by breaking it down level by level, you can eventually work your way up to 3 levels if you have to. Right now, focus on the bottom level or top level, and then work down from there. I know this is a LOT of info all in a day, but just start small, FOR SURE get a thermostat on the uth and a digital thermometer/hygrometer. Like I said I get all mine at walmart for about $8.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rmorse

Ok. I'll try. When you say "put a piece of melamine on the second level to limit her to the first level of the cage", do you mean so she is at the absolute bottom of the tank? Or do you mean for me to put the melamine as a shelf where the rock cave and under tank heater is, and so you block off the absolute bottom of the tank, and she stays on top of the melamine?

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Sorry, I thought your heat pad was on the absolute bottom level. If you plan on breaking it into three different cages, it doesn't matter which level you start with really, just limit her to one level and figure out what it will take to provide the proper heat gradient and humidity. :)

Aight guys, I think I go this.


GAME PLAN: First up, I'm grabbing some proper digital thermometers/hygrometers. I'm going to see where my levels are, and report back (lol). I'm a bit concerned about heat for the little girl - If I remove what's causing the low humidity (the heat lamp), I also remove one of her warm spots. So, I guess I need to pick up some of that heat tape or whatnot. But, doesn't matter. We'll see how my levels are first, and I'll work on making a flat level across the entire middle section.

that cage is awesome but idk if i would use it for ball pythons i would set it up arboreal and get a really cool green tree python

That sounds like a great start. Once you know that she's safe and happy, you can start worrying about more snakes/the rest of the enclosure. Just make sure that you get her temps right (and remember, she needs heat, but she also needs a 'cool' side too), get her a hot and cool hide, and get her humidity up, and move on from there. Good luck! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rmorse

Aight guys, I think I go this.


GAME PLAN: First up, I'm grabbing some proper digital thermometers/hygrometers. I'm going to see where my levels are, and report back (lol). I'm a bit concerned about heat for the little girl - If I remove what's causing the low humidity (the heat lamp), I also remove one of her warm spots. So, I guess I need to pick up some of that heat tape or whatnot. But, doesn't matter. We'll see how my levels are first, and I'll work on making a flat level across the entire middle section.

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Excellent game plan. :gj: Even though the heat lamp might be drying things out, focus first on getting your temps right - heat is an absolute necessity. I think you'll notice an improvement in humidity just by reducing the total open space you're trying to control. Like the others said, one step at a time. :)

Uh-oh, this isn't good. :(

I bought a little hygrometer/thermometer combo at wal-mart today; it's a little digital box. I set it under the heat bulb (where the upper level is) about a half hour ago and it's already at 22% humidity and 90% temp and rising/falling. :(:tears::tears::tears::tears: I feel horrible, like the worst dad ever.

I also ordered that thermostat from Amazon, and will hook that up to the cave where the under tank heater is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rmorse

Uh-oh, this isn't good. :(

I bought a little hygrometer/thermometer combo at wal-mart today; it's a little digital box. I set it under the heat bulb (where the upper level is) about a half hour ago and it's already at 22% humidity and 90% temp and rising/falling. :(:tears::tears::tears::tears: I feel horrible, like the worst dad ever.

I also ordered that thermostat from Amazon, and will hook that up to the cave where the under tank heater is.

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You're willing to learn that makes you a good owner. We all have to start somewhere. My first ball python had to put up with me learning for the first few months I had her. She had horrible sheds and was losing weight. Now she's thriving and breeding for me.

I have faith that you will get things fixed up nicely for her. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kinra

You're willing to learn that makes you a good owner. We all have to start somewhere. My first ball python had to put up with me learning for the first few months I had her. She had horrible sheds and was losing weight. Now she's thriving and breeding for me.

I have faith that you will get things fixed up nicely for her. :)

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Thanks, I hope so.

I do have a couple questions in regards to the shelf that I'm going to make though. I found "white panelboard" at Lowe's, but nothing that specifically called out Melamine. The piece of panelboard that I found is 1/8" thick. If I throw an UTH under it, will that even warm it up? Also, what do I do for the ambient temperature besides UTH if I can't use a heat lamp?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rmorse

Thanks, I hope so.

I do have a couple questions in regards to the shelf that I'm going to make though. I found "white panelboard" at Lowe's, but nothing that specifically called out Melamine. The piece of panelboard that I found is 1/8" thick. If I throw an UTH under it, will that even warm it up? Also, what do I do for the ambient temperature besides UTH if I can't use a heat lamp?

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I'm not sure if that is the same thing as melamine and it probably won't conduct heat so you may have to put the UTH on top of it and cover it with something that will conduct heat.

As for raising ambient temps I can't really help with that. I don't pay for heat so I suffer all year round and keep my apartment at least 75. :(

Ah well. I'll figure it out...

That being said, here are some new (as of 5 minutes ago) pictures of Cleo. Does she look a little small for 2.5 years?

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-02-55_353.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-02-33_515.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-02-18_825.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...1-01-58_83.jpg

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/...-01-27_398.jpg

She looks fine to me--all snakes grow at different rates, so there's no 'right' size. As long as she looks healthy (which she does) and eats regularly, she'll grow when she feels like it!

Bumpity bump. Maybe I should start a new thread, since this is turning from a "How am I doing" thread into a "New enclosure build" thread.


Anyway....


So, I have one of them thermostat things along the way, plus I have a digital thermometer/hygrometer in the tank, under the hot spot.

Remaining known issues:
Humidty is too low (at 16%). Need this mother UP.
Tank is too high for a ball python, they aren't climbers.


Here's what the current game plan is. This weekend, I'm buying some white panelboard from Lowe's, and cutting it to fit the enclosure. I'm going to make a shelf with it, at the very top. The left side will have a hide with an UTH inside of it, and the thermostat taped/glued to the UTH, to regulate the temps so Cleo doesn't burn. That will take care of the one hot spot, plus the tank being too high issue.

I'm currently exploring options to get that humidity level up. I need that bulb out of there; it's wrecking my style. What about these:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels

I throw one of those on the inside of the enclosure, in place of the heat bulb. Will they put off enough heat? What size wattage you think I should get?




More pics will follow on Saturday or Sunday, after I get to cutting a bit.

Do you have anything to hold the 1/8" up? If its no thicker than 1/8" then it sag drastically in the middle...You'll need at least something thats 1/2"....I know...frustrating :D.

As for humidity, just for right now I would go get a spray bottle at walmart, you can get them for $1, that way you can mist the enclosure. Are you going to put anything down for substrate? The first thing I thought of was to put a big piece of repti-carpet over the heat mat under her hide....you could cover the entire level with repticarpet as your substrate but it will be a little expensive at first, but you can wash them and reuse them. I dont know how well repti-carpets holds humidity though :confused:.

One thing that would save you some money is instead of getting a radiant heat panel, go to walmart or lowes and get a dimmer switch, and wire it into your heat lamp, that way you can adjust how much power is going to it, so it wont get as hot.

Now you know why so many people keep theirs in tubs lol :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pigfat

Do you have anything to hold the 1/8" up? If its no thicker than 1/8" then it sag drastically in the middle...You'll need at least something thats 1/2"....I know...frustrating :D.

We'll see about the 1/2". I may be able to pull off the 1/8", there are pegs to support it. I may be able to run a dowel from one peg to the other, as support. If not, I'll go with 1/2".

As for humidity, just for right now I would go get a spray bottle at walmart, you can get them for $1, that way you can mist the enclosure. Already got one, picked it up yesterday! I'll start misting pretty frequently.Are you going to put anything down for substrate? The first thing I thought of was to put a big piece of repti-carpet over the heat mat under her hide....you could cover the entire level with repticarpet as your substrate but it will be a little expensive at first, but you can wash them and reuse them. I dont know how well repti-carpets holds humidity though :confused:.

Was thinking of doing aspen as substrate. I like the look of it.

One thing that would save you some money is instead of getting a radiant heat panel, go to walmart or lowes and get a dimmer switch, and wire it into your heat lamp, that way you can adjust how much power is going to it, so it wont get as hot.

Now you know why so many people keep theirs in tubs lol :D

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Lol, but tubs are ugly!!! Not sure what a dimmer switch would do....right now, I have a 150 watt bulb in there. I can just as easily throw in a 50 watt or 75 watt bulb. The reason I was thinking a heat panel was to try to eliminate what was causing the looooow humidity.

Not reading all 5 pages, But your issues are the cage.

If your goign to use a huge cage, best be able to keep humidity and temps right. The lamp is drying out the air.

If shes always climbing to the top to get ot the heat, the temps must be too cool on the bottom. Ball Pythons are not climbers, and will injure themselves doing so with a cage that size. I would section the bottom shelf into its own cage and use the top half for storage or something.

I would try a 75 watt bulb at first, and just mist the enclosure...just to see if it will work before you buy more stuff. The dimmer just makes it to where you can control how hot the bulb will get. Also, if you place a big waterdish under the light, it will help bump humidity. Aspen will hold humidity as well, Do you have a way to keep it on the shelf without it falling out every time you open the doors? I hated tubs but I gave up on trying to keep the right husbandry in tanks, it can be done but it was getting to be too big of a pain. Now I have a boaphile rack with 4 drawers and I love it! They also make some pretty sweet visible cages as well as animal plastics. You could always go with one of these, that way you can get 4 ball pythons AND something like a Red Tail boa to put in the large cage!

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...x2fatstack.jpg

BUT this one will run you about $400 just for the bottom piece, the 2x6 cages on top are sold sepperately...its my dream rack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Not reading all 5 pages, But your issues are the cage.

If your goign to use a huge cage, best be able to keep humidity and temps right. The lamp is drying out the air.

If shes always climbing to the top to get ot the heat, the temps must be too cool on the bottom. Ball Pythons are not climbers, and will injure themselves doing so with a cage that size. I would section the bottom shelf into its own cage and use the top half for storage or something.

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Yea, if you look at ~page 3 and 4, you can see my plans for changing the cage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pigfat

I would try a 75 watt bulb at first, and just mist the enclosure...just to see if it will work before you buy more stuff. The dimmer just makes it to where you can control how hot the bulb will get. Also, if you place a big waterdish under the light, it will help bump humidity. Aspen will hold humidity as well, Do you have a way to keep it on the shelf without it falling out every time you open the doors? I hated tubs but I gave up on trying to keep the right husbandry in tanks, it can be done but it was getting to be too big of a pain. Now I have a boaphile rack with 4 drawers and I love it! They also make some pretty sweet visible cages as well as animal plastics. You could always go with one of these, that way you can get 4 ball pythons AND something like a Red Tail boa to put in the large cage!

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...x2fatstack.jpg

BUT this one will run you about $400 just for the bottom piece, the 2x6 cages on top are sold sepperately...its my dream rack.

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That's a pretty hot rack (giggity).

But yea, I put down weatherstripping on the bottom to keep the aspen bedding in, and it works.

Rmorse, trust me brother, I've been exactally where you are now. I spent quite a bit of money trying to make an idea work that suited my sensibilites while still providing a proper environment for my snake. In the very very long run, and after lots of dollars injected into the local economy, I finally went to this:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/iris-sw...y-or-back-heat

Without a doubt, the best money I ever spent. Had I spent the money on it the first time someone on this Forum suggested it, I would have saved myself a lot of $$ and saved my snake/snakes a lot of stress.

Please don't take this as a slam on your current set-up, or on your attempts modify it. Just think of it as sage advise from an old dude who's walked in your shoes.

Slim, I'm right there with you..probably not as much time or money but still probably around $100-$200. I had a plexiglass lid that I spent a couple days making from scratch so I could turn the tank sideways and slide it in from the top....15 holes drilled with 5 more to go I cracked it...I just screamed for about 30 seconds lol. After that I found a lightly used rhino raxx and I couldnt be happier, and neither could my snakes. Oh and my rack cost me $200....money VERY well spent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slim

Rmorse, trust me brother, I've been exactally where you are now. I spent quite a bit of money trying to make an idea work that suited my sensibilites while still providing a proper environment for my snake. In the very very long run, and after lots of dollars injected into the local economy, I finally went to this:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/iris-sw...y-or-back-heat

Without a doubt, the best money I ever spent. Had I spent the money on it the first time someone on this Forum suggested it, I would have saved myself a lot of $$ and saved my snake/snakes a lot of stress.

Please don't take this as a slam on your current set-up, or on your attempts modify it. Just think of it as sage advise from an old dude who's walked in your shoes.

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Le sigh.

I hear what you guys are saying, I'm just super torn on this. I hate the idea of my snake in this tiny tiny enclosure, which is why I LOVE my big enclosure. That, and I love the look of it.


Ok, so, that being said....I know nothing about the racks. Are there any racks out there that will offer her more room to "play" (even though you guys swear they don't need it :() but also look good? I'm also concerned with the rack system, because it seems like so much can go wrong....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pigfat

I found a lightly used rhino raxx and I couldnt be happier, and neither could my snakes.

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This was my experience as well. So much easier to clean and mantaining a heat gradient and humidity levels are a snap. Snakes shed in one piece every time, eat like Retics, and show no signs of "tank stess".

The added bonus I didn't realize until after I made the switch was that less time messing around with enclosure stuff ment more time enjoying my animals. While everyone's mileage will vary, for me it was a win-win.

Try http://animalplastics.com/
Go to terrestrial cages on top left side in blue print.

I would say the 48" long cage would be plenty big enough for your ball. In all honesty, it would probably be more benneficial for you and your wallet to go ahead and get something like that, because all the stuff you will have to buy and time spent doing it for the setup you have now will probably be more than the enclosure. The 48"L cages will be big enough for her for her entire life. Once you click on one, you can even add stuff like lights and heat.