Question about Baytril Dosing

Ok so a few snakes have an RI so I went to a vet that specializes in Exotic pets. She was cool enough to give me enough Baytril to treat all my snakes however she stated she couldnt give me the dosage for the snakes that she had not seen.

I was trying to figure it out by using the 4 doses that were given to me but they dont match up. Here is what was given to me.

2171G = .11
1505G = .05
249G = .01
473G = .02

Now I was told to administer daily for 14 days. The Baytril is 100mg/ml injectable.

So I was doing the math but none of the numbers added up.

For instance:
.11 / 2171 = .00005067
.05 / 1505 = .00003322
.01 / 249 = .00004016
.02 / 473 = .00004228

Since none of these matched up I took an average which was .00004158

The problem with this is using .00004158 my dosage for a snake that is 2304G would be .09 so my dosages seem low since 2304G = .09 but 2171 (what the vet perscribed) = .11

What am I doing wrong here? Anyone have any idea how to figure out dosing?

Every website I look at has different reccommended doses. One states 5mg, another is 25mg. I am totally confused.

just to give you an idea using my average idea this is a few of the dosages I came up with

1145G = .04
1675G = .06
1328G = .05
2991G = .12
2295G = .09
1383G = .05
2019G = .08
2263G = .09
1491G = .06
1330G = .05

Anyway thats a few please let me know what your take is on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat160

Ok so a few snakes have an RI so I went to a vet that specializes in Exotic pets. She was cool enough to give me enough Baytril to treat all my snakes however she stated she couldnt give me the dosage for the snakes that she had not seen.

I was trying to figure it out by using the 4 doses that were given to me but they dont match up. Here is what was given to me.

2171G = .11
1505G = .05
249G = .01
473G = .02

Now I was told to administer daily for 14 days. The Baytril is 100mg/ml injectable.

So I was doing the math but none of the numbers added up.

For instance:
.11 / 2171 = .00005067
.05 / 1505 = .00003322
.01 / 249 = .00004016
.02 / 473 = .00004228

Since none of these matched up I took an average which was .00004158

The problem with this is using .00004158 my dosage for a snake that is 2304G would be .09 so my dosages seem low since 2304G = .09 but 2171 (what the vet perscribed) = .11

What am I doing wrong here? Anyone have any idea how to figure out dosing?

Every website I look at has different reccommended doses. One states 5mg, another is 25mg. I am totally confused.

just to give you an idea using my average idea this is a few of the dosages I came up with

1145G = .04
1675G = .06
1328G = .05
2991G = .12
2295G = .09
1383G = .05
2019G = .08
2263G = .09
1491G = .06
1330G = .05

Anyway thats a few please let me know what your take is on it.

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What is the concentration of Baytril that was prescribed? Most Baytril is prescribed at 2.27%.

Then you need to know the dosage. RIs that culture sensitive to Bayril are often dosed at 5 mg/kg. Often vets are too lazy to culture so they go with the strongest recommended dose which is 25 mg/kg. Sometimes vets prescribe a 10 mg/kg dose. You therefore need to know the dosage to finish your calculations.

The calculation you should use is dose x weight/concentration, where all units are converted to kg, mg and ml.

So in the case of an animal that weights 1000 grams, the injectable amount would be:

at 5 mg/kg dose = 0.22 ml or cc
at 10 mg/kg dose = 0.44 ml or cc
at 25 mg/kg dose = 1.1 ml or cc

You should not treat any of your animals without getting a culture done. That will determine first and foremost if the infection is even susceptible to Baytril. Secondly, if susceptible, it will dictate the dosage.

The fact that you are confused and dont know what your doing with the treatment reinforces the fact that you should take the snakes to the vet. This is not something that should be done trial and error. The risk vs reward is to high. The fact the vet gave you baytril the way he did speaks volumes of the type of vet he or she is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

What is the concentration of Baytril that was prescribed? Most Baytril is prescribed at 2.27%.

Then you need to know the dosage. RIs that culture sensitive to Bayril are often dosed at 5 mg/kg. Often vets are too lazy to culture so they go with the strongest recommended dose which is 25 mg/kg. Sometimes vets prescribe a 10 mg/kg dose. You therefore need to know the dosage to finish your calculations.

The calculation you should use is dose x weight/concentration, where all units are converted to kg, mg and ml.

So in the case of an animal that weights 1000 grams, the injectable amount would be:

at 5 mg/kg dose = 0.22 ml or cc
at 10 mg/kg dose = 0.44 ml or cc
at 25 mg/kg dose = 1.1 ml or cc

You should not treat any of your animals without getting a culture done. That will determine first and foremost if the infection is even susceptible to Baytril. Secondly, if susceptible, it will dictate the dosage.

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I asked the vet about that since she did not do a culture. The vet I went to is the only exotic vet in the area (Almost an hour from me) and comes highly recommended by my local zoo.

the vet I went to has two DVM's that have a combined experience with exotic pets of 28 years and they have posted several medical journals in relation to treating snakes. My vet stated that if the snakes have not been on Batryl before then they should be fine.

I will have to check on the dosage though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snake lab

The fact that you are confused and dont know what your doing with the treatment reinforces the fact that you should take the snakes to the vet. This is not something that should be done trial and error. The risk vs reward is to high. The fact the vet gave you baytril the way he did speaks volumes of the type of vet he or she is.

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If you read my post I did take my snakes to the vet. However, its not feasible for me to take in 32 snakes. I know how to give baytril injections I simply was not sure on the dosing.

Since my vet did the doses for the 4 I took in I was trying to correctly dose the others. I appreciate your concern but Im sure my vet has more experience and the proper qualifications.

Well considering i get my medical knowledge of reptiles from the number 1 vet in the country and maybe the world i would disagree. If you have 32 snakes in need of antibiotics then something is horribly wrong with your husbandry. Resp in 32 snakes doesnt happen overnight. Any good vet will do a culture first to see if baytril is appropriate or maybe fortaz or something else. Now im kinda in the gray area with this cause i do have bayyril on hand and will use it sometimes but i am confident in what im dong and have been for years

Another thing you should know is that Baytril causes necrosis at the injection site. A good exotics vet does not just hand the stuff out like candy without a culture and tell you to dose up all your snakes. It should be properly diluted and depending on the amount, each injection should be administered in 2 or 3 places so that the entire amount in the syringe is not being concentrated into one area.

If not done properly, you can end up with sores and scabby areas at the injection sites that turn dark and may or may not ever completely fade away.

Every snake reacts differently to it as well. Some may not have a problem, while others will.

This is why I always tell people to try to find an exotics vet. My vet only does birds and reptiles. I know not everyone has this option and if you don't, it's worth a few phone calls just to get some phone info from one. That way you may be able to help educate your own vet. Or at least give them something to go on so they may do some more research on their end.


Just make sure you have a diagnosis before you start medication all your animals in such a way. If you feel you don't need a culture for each one, or can't afford it, make sure you learn everything you can about Baytril first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Another thing you should know is that Baytril causes necrosis at the injection site. A good exotics vet does not just hand the stuff out like candy without a culture and tell you to dose up all your snakes. It should be properly diluted and depending on the amount, each injection should be administered in 2 or 3 places so that the entire amount in the syringe is not being concentrated into one area.

If not done properly, you can end up with sores and scabby areas at the injection sites that turn dark and may or may not ever completely fade away.

Every snake reacts differently to it as well. Some may not have a problem, while others will.

This is why I always tell people to try to find an exotics vet. My vet only does birds and reptiles. I know not everyone has this option and if you don't, it's worth a few phone calls just to get some phone info from one. That way you may be able to help educate your own vet. Or at least give them something to go on so they may do some more research on their end.


Just make sure you have a diagnosis before you start medication all your animals in such a way. If you feel you don't need a culture for each one, or can't afford it, make sure you learn everything you can about Baytril first.

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The vet I went to also is an exotics vet. They see everything from rats to snakes to sugar gliders etc. I am familiar with baytril and I trust my vet so I will go by what she says, and no all 32 snakes do not have RI, im sure but I am simply treating the room which my vet said will not be a problem because last time I checked taking 32 snakes to the vet can put a dent in anyone's pocket book. I am only treating those who show signs of an RI. however I needed to know the correct dosing.

lets see 4 snakes cost me $420 so if I took all 32 snakes that would be $3360 and I doubt most people have that to spend. I am familiar with injections was simply looking for correct dosage which I have acquired now thanks to a poster who actually read my post and gave me the information I needed instead of barraging my vet.

So thank you all for your comments.

Good luck. Hope ya the best.

injecting as in shots?

I wouldn't treat all 32 . If they show symptoms then ok treat. But if not then there is no need to 1. Stress out animals that are not sick 2. Waste meds you could hang onto for a later RI ( hope no more show up but just in case ) 3. Giving unneeded antibiotics will only get he animals body use to a drug. You treat every snake every time one has an RI and pretty soon baytril will no longer work.

Im starting to think that no one reads these posts fully. Ive already stated that I am only treating those with symptoms.

But thank you for taking the time to reply to my post I still appreciate it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingPythons

injecting as in shots?

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injecting as in with needles yes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat160

I asked the vet about that since she did not do a culture. The vet I went to is the only exotic vet in the area (Almost an hour from me) and comes highly recommended by my local zoo.

the vet I went to has two DVM's that have a combined experience with exotic pets of 28 years and they have posted several medical journals in relation to treating snakes. My vet stated that if the snakes have not been on Batryl before then they should be fine.

I will have to check on the dosage though.



If you read my post I did take my snakes to the vet. However, its not feasible for me to take in 32 snakes. I know how to give baytril injections I simply was not sure on the dosing.

Since my vet did the doses for the 4 I took in I was trying to correctly dose the others. I appreciate your concern but Im sure my vet has more experience and the proper qualifications.

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You say here its not feasable to take 32 snakes. Thats what i was commenting on. If you dont have 32 sick snakes then why would you be worried about 32 snakes? Antibiotics should never be used as a preventative step for anything.

Sorry I thought when you talked about treating the others you meant the four you took had symptoms and she gave you meds to treat the others .

I'm currently treating a ~500g rescue w/ .02-.03cc of Baytril.
But I was told to dose every 5 days.

The dosage calculation should be:

dose x weight
-------------------
concentration

You stated that the Baytril is 100mg/ml.

I.E) 1000 grams = 1 kilogram @ 10 mg/kg dosage

10 mg/kg x 1 kg
--------------------------- = 0.1 cc or ml
100 mg/ml

500 grams =.5 kilogram @ 5 mg/kg dosage

5 mg/kg x .5 kg
--------------------------- = 0.025 cc or ml
100 mg/ml

Typically dosages range from 5-10 (or more) mg/kg depending on how severe the RI is. If it's a minor case, I would go w/ the lower dose. If its a more severe case, then I would use the higher dose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat160

The vet I went to also is an exotics vet. They see everything from rats to snakes to sugar gliders etc. I am familiar with baytril and I trust my vet so I will go by what she says, and no all 32 snakes do not have RI, im sure but I am simply treating the room which my vet said will not be a problem because last time I checked taking 32 snakes to the vet can put a dent in anyone's pocket book. I am only treating those who show signs of an RI. however I needed to know the correct dosing.

lets see 4 snakes cost me $420 so if I took all 32 snakes that would be $3360 and I doubt most people have that to spend. I am familiar with injections was simply looking for correct dosage which I have acquired now thanks to a poster who actually read my post and gave me the information I needed instead of barraging my vet.

So thank you all for your comments.

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See you said you were treating the room. Then explained that she gave you the extra to treat the room.

Oh yeah,

My calculations using 5mg/kg dose matches what your vet calculated.

2171G = .11
1505G = .05
249G = .01
473G = .02

The only one that is different was the 1505g snake. I got .07 for that one. I don't know if she did that on purpose or made a mistake in her calculations. But the rest all match.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat160

I asked the vet about that since she did not do a culture. The vet I went to is the only exotic vet in the area (Almost an hour from me) and comes highly recommended by my local zoo.

the vet I went to has two DVM's that have a combined experience with exotic pets of 28 years and they have posted several medical journals in relation to treating snakes. My vet stated that if the snakes have not been on Batryl before then they should be fine.

I will have to check on the dosage though.



If you read my post I did take my snakes to the vet. However, its not feasible for me to take in 32 snakes. I know how to give baytril injections I simply was not sure on the dosing.

Since my vet did the doses for the 4 I took in I was trying to correctly dose the others. I appreciate your concern but Im sure my vet has more experience and the proper qualifications.

---

Personally, I would not dose an antibiotic without a culture. The sensitivity has nothing to do with whether or not the animal has been dosed with the antibiotic prior, but whether the strain of bacteria is susceptible to the antibiotic.

There are several people on this forum whose genius vets have stormed ahead and prescribed baytril without taking a culture and their animals have had to go back for multiple rounds of treatment with different antibiotics to resolve the infection. Due to the blatant overuse of baytril in the exotic vet community, more and more strains of bacteria are developing a resistance to it.

So it's great that your vet has been published and it's great that she's been practicing for 28 years, but I can tell you that the two outstanding herp vets in my area (one who is a professor at UCD) would not prescribe any antibiotic for an RI without doing a culture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Personally, I would not dose an antibiotic without a culture. The sensitivity has nothing to do with whether or not the animal has been dosed with the antibiotic prior, but whether the strain of bacteria is susceptible to the antibiotic.

There are several people on this forum whose genius vets have stormed ahead and prescribed baytril without taking a culture and their animals have had to go back for multiple rounds of treatment with different antibiotics to resolve the infection. Due to the blatant overuse of baytril in the exotic vet community, more and more strains of bacteria are developing a resistance to it.

So it's great that your vet has been published and it's great that she's been practicing for 28 years, but I can tell you that the two outstanding herp vets in my area (one who is a professor at UCD) would not prescribe any antibiotic for an RI without doing a culture.

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Hey Skiploder!
Who's your vet at UCD?
I intern in the VMTH.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Personally, I would not dose an antibiotic without a culture. The sensitivity has nothing to do with whether or not the animal has been dosed with the antibiotic prior, but whether the strain of bacteria is susceptible to the antibiotic.

There are several people on this forum whose genius vets have stormed ahead and prescribed baytril without taking a culture and their animals have had to go back for multiple rounds of treatment with different antibiotics to resolve the infection. Due to the blatant overuse of baytril in the exotic vet community, more and more strains of bacteria are developing a resistance to it.

So it's great that your vet has been published and it's great that she's been practicing for 28 years, but I can tell you that the two outstanding herp vets in my area (one who is a professor at UCD) would not prescribe any antibiotic for an RI without doing a culture.

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You should ALWAYS have cultures done first... 5 months later after treating 3 snakes, the orignal will most likely die, the two others it got sick are nearly cleared up.. Expenses.. A little over $3000 and rough calcs... close to 150 needles...

You can have the best vet in the world... BUT not getting a culture done in the worst flaw...I learned that personally after letting my vet push me to what she wanted...

So it is 5mg for the dosage however I was told once a day for 14 days. My vet also teaches exotic pet medicine at OSU.

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Originally Posted by Rat160

My vet also teaches exotic pet medicine at OSU.

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That makes it even worse.....

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

That makes it even worse.....

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Feel free to leave your vets information and I'll be happy to have my vet give them a call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat160

So it is 5mg for the dosage

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Yes. 5mg/kg
Just use this equation to figure out your other dosages. But I recommend running this by your vet for confirmation.



5 mg/kg x weight kg
--------------------------- = ____ cc or ml
100 mg/ml

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5 mg/kg x weight kg
--------------------------- = ____ cc or ml
100 mg/ml

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This depends on the concentration of baytril you were given. It comes in 100mg/ml and 22.7mg/ml. The 100mg/ml is used mainly for farm animals. You better know for sure what concentration you were given before you treat any of your snakes.

I think that what your vet did was despicable. 1) they gave drugs for an animal that they never examined 2) they gave you drugs without instructions how to use it properly.

I agree with other posts about cultures. Except for the post that mentioned that vets were too lazy to do them. In most cases they are skipped because the clients don't want to spend money. $420 to bring 4 snakes in and get some baytril and no cultures... you need to find another vet!

I would avoid baytril if at all possible. the tissue necrosis is very severe and I've seen it cause permanent scarring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mikemdvm

This depends on the concentration of baytril you were given. It comes in 100mg/ml and 22.7mg/ml. The 100mg/ml is used mainly for farm animals. You better know for sure what concentration you were given before you treat any of your snakes.

I think that what your vet did was despicable. 1) they gave drugs for an animal that they never examined 2) they gave you drugs without instructions how to use it properly.

I agree with other posts about cultures. Except for the post that mentioned that vets were too lazy to do them. In most cases they are skipped because the clients don't want to spend money. $420 to bring 4 snakes in and get some baytril and no cultures... you need to find another vet!

I would avoid baytril if at all possible. the tissue necrosis is very severe and I've seen it cause permanent scarring.

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Hey Doc:

Have you ever seen anything other than 2.27% baytril prescribed for snakes?

There have been a rash of forum members whose vets have flat out stated that they don't need to do cultures. While it is true that some people are to cheap to shell out the money for a culture, we have had many members ASK for them and told not to worry - inject the drug.

Rat:

Can you check the concentration of Baytril prescribed? Was it 2.27% (22.7 mg/ml) or 10% (100 mg/ml)?

You also have a DVM weighing in here on your thread and adding some compelling arguments that you may need to get a second opinion.

I've already shared with you my thoughts on how she has handled your situation, maybe you should reconsider the treatment course she has prescribed.

Well. He said 100mg/ml in his first post. And if you do the math, that's what his vet came up with to get her dosages too.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I would go over and confirm with your vet.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Years ago, something like in 1992, I took in a rescue Mexican Boa with a RI, Mouth Rot, numerous infected wounds, and emaciated. My country vet and I
e wormed him with Ivermectin and gave Baytril, injectable, one time at whatever dose the book said at the time and continued with oral Baytril, a liquid that was made from either the injectable or crushed pills, I do not remember which. I dosed him orally twice a day, again with whatever the book said at the time, using am insulin syringe with no needled and massaged it down his throat. My vet said what did come back out some with the removal of the syringe would help the mouth rot as well. I wiped him with betadine once a day, and kept the cage very clean and ever washed his food items as best I could. He did get over everything, and lived for many more years. Now, this was extreme rural Texas, and many hours (and maybe years) from anything remotely like a reptile exotics friendly vet so we did the best we could with what information he had in books at the time. I assume oral dosing with Baytril is now a no no? Just reading above about the problems with injecting this drug now and the damage it does. Thanks for the time you spend here!

*Fila*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mikemdvm

I would avoid baytril if at all possible. the tissue necrosis is very severe and I've seen it cause permanent scarring.

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It is 100mg, This is the only herp vet in the area and I trust a world renowned vet with published journals who is an exotic vet professor at a major university and has over 28 years experience.

Sorry I havent responded just got tired of the bashing. My vet did me a favor so I didnt have to pay an office visit on all my snakes just to see.

Second your posts arent helpful. I actually praised this forum and honestly after this post not really so much. People were rude and downright mean. People should be helpful in these sitations so that new owners arent barraged away.

Final note, I got what I was looking for so thank you all that were helping.

As i am guilty of treating ri in the past with baytril without cultures and i have had success every time and i have gotten the baytril from a hack vet. Not saying thats a good thing but it worked. Now with that said i will tell you my regular vet is number one in the country and vet stahl will not treat without cultures. So take that for what its worth. It should be followed to get a culture done. I have been lucky in the past that my decisions didnt come back to bite me but im also not saying to do as i do either.