Sufficient quarantine distance.

What is the minimum distance new purchases must be segregated from the rest? And for how long?




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I would keep them as far away as possible, and for 3 months

Also to add, no sharing feeding tongs or other supplies between them: especially feeders. If a quarantine snake doesn't take a feeder then I don't give it to any of my established guys.

I also agree w/ 3 months and as far away as possible: I have my QT snakes in a separate room away from my established snake's room.

3 months, minimum - if you introduce a new snake into quarantine I would suggest re-setting everyone back to zero again and starting the 3month cycle over again.

I always handle my QT snakes last, washing thoroughly between my established snakes and the new ones. Then between each of them as well.

I also try and keep them in separate rooms when possible.

The general trend that I've seen on this forum is as far away as possible for three months. Completely different equipment and supplies for QT and established. When you bring a new snake into QT, everybody goes back to day 1, even if they've been in QT for 2 1/2 months. Always go through your rounds established, then QT. Some people even go to the extreme of wearing completely different clothes when they come in contact with QT.

Just wondering.. Have there been cases in the past where people did not follow QT properly, or at all, and suffered losing their whole collection? How easy do snakes carry sickness to one another? In my current situation, I couldn't really QT because I got all of my snakes in my rack within the same a month and a bit. and I had no previous "established colony". Should I have housed them all seperately in different rooms? Is it sufficient to use seperate equipment in my case? The most economical way for me to house my first three new snakes was to buy a rack, but thinking back now, I might not have been considering qt as a main priority.

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Originally Posted by mattchibi

Just wondering.. Have there been cases in the past where people did not follow QT properly, or at all, and suffered losing their whole collection? How easy do snakes carry sickness to one another? In my current situation, I couldn't really QT because I got all of my snakes in my rack within the same a month and a bit. and I had no previous "established colony". Should I have housed them all seperately in different rooms? Is it sufficient to use seperate equipment in my case? The most economical way for me to house my first three new snakes was to buy a rack, but thinking back now, I might not have been considering qt as a main priority.

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There is a thread on Fauna's BOI about a girl who didn't practice proper QT and lost many snakes due to IBD. The thread is "Beware SakaraGT..." it's a long read but it's worth it IMO: I think everyone should read through the BOIs threads.

If you got all your snakes at the same time then I would have just monitored them all together but sanitize between every snake. Any new snakes you get though I would keep them separate from the ones you have now (basically your "established collection" because those are the only other ones you have currently).

I've only had one sick snake (with an RI) and she is with all my other QT snakes and none of them have gotten an RI. I keep reading that RIs are very easy to pass to other snakes so maybe I've been lucky, but sanitizing is key!

So getting two snakes around the same time, you just quarantine in the same room?


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I got three new snakes from Ben Siegels recently. Two at the same time, in the same box, and another one a little over a month later. I only had one snake that I have had for a while now and I kept him in a different house until I was positive that the ones I got from Ben didn't have mites or any signs of RI. All of them are healthy and eating great, so I finally brought my established collection of one snake over to my house.

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

So getting two snakes around the same time, you just quarantine in the same room?


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It depends.

If they are coming from the same place around the same time then I would say they they don't need to be seperated (in seperate enclosures but not different rooms)

If they are coming from different placed I would keep them as far away from each other ad possible.

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

There is a thread on Fauna's BOI about a girl who didn't practice proper QT and lost many snakes due to IBD. The thread is "Beware SakaraGT..." it's a long read but it's worth it IMO: I think everyone should read through the BOIs threads.

If you got all your snakes at the same time then I would have just monitored them all together but sanitize between every snake. Any new snakes you get though I would keep them separate from the ones you have now (basically your "established collection" because those are the only other ones you have currently).

I've only had one sick snake (with an RI) and she is with all my other QT snakes and none of them have gotten an RI. I keep reading that RIs are very easy to pass to other snakes so maybe I've been lucky, but sanitizing is key!

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What is IBD?

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Originally Posted by Kylegep

What is IBD?

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Read this

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusion_Body_Disease

After doing all my research on the nasty viral diseases that turn up and wipe out peoples' collections, I can no longer repeat the advice to quarantine for 3 months.

It is not enough time. Some of the bad ones incubate for far longer...up to 11 months.

I now quarantine for 12 months. It's a long time. It's completely worth it. If you aren't protecting your collection against the worst diseases, you're not protecting them at all.

More important than distance is sanitation--never transfer anything between quarantine and your collection, and disinfect everything regularly. At the very least, quarantine needs to be a separate room, and you need to deal with your collection first, and quarantine second--and then wash your clothes, and shower, before you go back to your collection again.

Considering that most harmful things are contracted from contact and not airborne its not necessary to quarantine at great distances. I have a quarantine rack in the same snake room as most of my collection. With that said i handle the quarantined animals with gloves and change gloves everytime i handle i different quarantined animal. I never share anything. I have never had an issue in 15 years of new animals affecting my existing collection. Also its important to know who your getting your animals from. If your getting your animals from clean breeders and people you know have good husbandry practices then you can ensure a good healthy animal. I personally dont deal with anyone i dont already know

I agree with snake lab and Winged Wolf. IBD is exceeding rare in pythons and has a very long dormancy (potentially 7 years) it is a bit of a boogyman but virus can live a long time away from the host. It isn't so much a physical distance but a mental one. NOTHING must contact an animal that is in Q contact another snake from the collection. If tools are shared they need to be hard surfaced and disinfected long enough to kill virus (if you looked up the disinfectant used and check times and dilutions to kill something like MRSA it should be fine) Remember few if any chemical disinfectants work on contact most require some time to work generally 20-30 min with the chemical damp is long enough.

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Originally Posted by mattchibi

Just wondering.. Have there been cases in the past where people did not follow QT properly, or at all, and suffered losing their whole collection? How easy do snakes carry sickness to one another? In my current situation, I couldn't really QT because I got all of my snakes in my rack within the same a month and a bit. and I had no previous "established colony". Should I have housed them all seperately in different rooms? Is it sufficient to use seperate equipment in my case? The most economical way for me to house my first three new snakes was to buy a rack, but thinking back now, I might not have been considering qt as a main priority.

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Without naming any names, I know someone who lost everything due to one seemingly "normal" snake not being quarantined. They all started dying very slowly and very painfully, and they put countless hours into their treatment and nothing worked. After I was told about it I have since realized it's absolutely necessary. And honestly, IBD is the least of my worries. There are many more severe, more common, and deadly viruses that can kill just as easily.

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Originally Posted by LGray23

Without naming any names, I know someone who lost everything due to one seemingly "normal" snake not being quarantined. They all started dying very slowly and very painfully, and they put countless hours into their treatment and nothing worked. After I was told about it I have since realized it's absolutely necessary. And honestly, IBD is the least of my worries. There are many more severe, more common, and deadly viruses that can kill just as easily.

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All of this scares me a lot. I dont think I was very diligent this past two or three weeks with QT. What can I do at this point? I have three pairs of tongs but I may have mixed them up during my cleaning process, and same as when I do my cleanings :s. I have been cleaning all of their water bowls and hides in the same sink, with a bleach solution in spray bottle and a sponge to scrub. I made sure to remember which hide and bowl is who's.

I have kept everything disinfected and clean since theyve gotten here, but I honestly didnt know to wash hands before dealing with different snakes in QT. So I pretty much screwed up my QT completely.

What should I do at this point? Just be dilligent about it now and hope that nothing has been transferred? Would it be beneficial to bring the snakes to the vet for a complete checkup to check for RI's, MSRA, IBD or any other deadly viruses?

To OP: Sorry for hijacking!! I didnt want to start a new thread since this was all relevant.

I wouldn't kick your own butt over it now. Worry about it if the time comes. Just do your best to follow decent QT procedures from now on and enjoy your collection :)

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Originally Posted by mattchibi

All of this scares me a lot. I dont think I was very diligent this past two or three weeks with QT. What can I do at this point? I have three pairs of tongs but I may have mixed them up during my cleaning process, and same as when I do my cleanings :s. I have been cleaning all of their water bowls and hides in the same sink, with a bleach solution in spray bottle and a sponge to scrub. I made sure to remember which hide and bowl is who's.

I have kept everything disinfected and clean since theyve gotten here, but I honestly didnt know to wash hands before dealing with different snakes in QT. So I pretty much screwed up my QT completely.

What should I do at this point? Just be dilligent about it now and hope that nothing has been transferred? Would it be beneficial to bring the snakes to the vet for a complete checkup to check for RI's, MSRA, IBD or any other deadly viruses?

To OP: Sorry for hijacking!! I didnt want to start a new thread since this was all relevant.

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First, take two deep breaths. :) If your snakes aren't exhibiting any symptoms, then it is unlikely a vet will find anything, even if it is there. In fact, taking them to the vet could stress them and make them more susceptible to problems. Just start being diligent now, and keep a close eye on them. It wouldn't hurt to reset the clock on their QT time, just as a precaution. As many above have said, there is a lot of risk in skipping QT, but there are fewer stories of devestation than there are of no issues at all. I am not saying this to downplay QT. I QT in another room for 30-45 days. If there are no issues, I move into the snake room to the opposite side of the room, still using dedicated tools, for another 15-30 days (total of 60 days before moving into a shared rack). In my mind, this helps me gauge how the new addition reacts to change - all clocks reset if there are any issues at any stage.

Just be ocd with everything. Keep everything clean, get some nitrile gloves and just be plain ocd lol.

I color code my hemostats with colors duct tape, along with any other instruments. QT red, established green :D

What would I do without you guys ?? :gj:

I do still recommend quarantining in a separate room, because new arrivals may come in with that dreaded scourge of the snake room...mites. ;)
Mites by themselves are just a nuisance, but they are implicated in transferring IBD, and may possibly transfer other diseases as well. I keep my quarantine racks upstairs, and the rest of my collection downstairs.

I had heard of IBD being carried for years by boa constrictors, but I had not heard of it being carried for that long in ball pythons. Do you have a reference for that? It's the reason I don't have boas in my collection, and won't, until I have a separate reptile room for them, away from my ball pythons.

That is very true. I actually forgot to mention that I use isolation tubs a but in a tub system. A smaller tub kept in a larger one and the outside larger one I cover the bottom in diatomaceous earth, any mites or other insects cannot survive a trek though the DE. Dri-Die would likely work oil and or soapy water anything that makes a barrier to insects leaving the Q tub and entering the room. The separate room world be awesome if I had an suitable one sadly I don't really. Air carried things are not as likely as other issues, I isolate travel of insects too.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

That is very true. I actually forgot to mention that I use isolation tubs a but in a tub system. A smaller tub kept in a larger one and the outside larger one I cover the bottom in diatomaceous earth, any mites or other insects cannot survive a trek though the DE. Dri-Die would likely work oil and or soapy water anything that makes a barrier to insects leaving the Q tub and entering the room. The separate room world be awesome if I had an suitable one sadly I don't really. Air carried things are not as likely as other issues, I isolate travel of insects too.

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Very clever idea with the DE! I never would have thought of that.

I take in lots of rescues, isolation is very important. I can't easily or reasonably have great physical isolation so I do the best I can with what I have.

I dont worry about mites from new animals cause as soon as they go in the q rack they get sprayed with reptile relief and so does the newspaper just as a proventitive measure. Your collection is only as good as how proactive you are. When dealing with a collection a little ocd is a good thing lol

A safe distance would be any distance where you won't jeopardize cross contamination. Whether it's an adjacent room, or another facility/house many miles away. Different tools, scales, instruments, housing should all be kept separate. So whatever distance works as long as there isn't any cross contamination.

The proper length for quarantine is 6 months!!! The fact is, the stuff that you really don't want in your collection can have a incubation period that isn't noticeable for 6 months or more! One of the best reptile vets here in California, Dr. Thomas Boyer recently discussed with me that boas and pythons are living with these deadly and incurable viruses for years! He's taken pythons and boas with IBD, to hear about them actually living even longer than ever studied before. Bacterial infections are mutating and becoming even harder to treat. New paramyxoviruses (PMV) are now showing up in snakes that could be even harder to treat, and in most cases snakes can die without symptoms or signs.

In discussion with Dr. Boyer, he explained disinfecting isn't nearly as important as proper quarantine. Spot cleaning substrate and simply wiping out water bowls with hot water once a week will suffice. All within a healthy collection, is just fine. However, improper quarantine will do far worse damage than not disinfecting tubs once a week.

My biggest recommendation is buying snakes from someone with a great reputation that practices their own 6 month quarantine. To be honest, I don't know many who do. There are a handful of breeders that I would make an exception with quarantine standards, only because I know their own quarantine procedure would match my own.

Another recommendation is have two separate quarantine rooms. Reason is, lets say you purchase 6 snakes 3 months ago and now want to buy 6 more. If you add these snakes into your previous quarantined snakes, that resets the clock. Again, we are talking even more tools, feeding tongs, scales, etc for a 3rd room. This is all part of the game if you want to be 100% clean and not put a large investment at risk.

For larger collections this is an issue Brent, but for your average hobby breeder this can be avoided by trying to schedule your purchases and delivery of new snakes. I keep all QT animals in same rack on a differant floor of my house. QT has it's own utensils, bowls, tubs, feeding bins, soaking bins. I have hand gell in both areas. Hands are washed before, after and in between hamdlings. Feeders are euthanized and kept seperate in freezer if not eaten by a QT snake. I avoid multiple sets of QT animals by waiting to receive new animals until the old set is out of QT. I QT for a minimum of 3 months and have recently extended that to 4-6 months after some discussions with other breeders. As far as being confident in others QT practices, I try to only do business with people who I feel hold the health of thier animals in as high of regard as I do. I avoid buying from facilities that deal in alot of wild caught specimens, I prefer to buy from smaller scale hobby breeders that I feel completely comfortable with. Knowing your care standards Brent, I qt'd the Fire I got from you for 3 months. The pair I have in QT now will stay there until next season, not because of issues simply because I have no need to introduce them any sooner. Sorry for rambling, but this is an issue that I feel needs discussed more openly and more often.