Should I soak?

My little guy, Olie, is about to start his 2nd shed in my care. His first one went terribly, even though I thought I was doing everything right. This time, I've got his humidity absolutely cranked (80% right now), plus he's got his water dish to soak in, as well as a humid hide. My question is if you guys think it'd be worthwhile to soak him at this stage. His eyes just turned blue within in the last 36 hours. A long soak and subsequent scrubbing was the only thing that got his last shed finished, so I'm wondering if pre-emptive soaking for like half an hour every day or every other day might make a difference in him having a complete shed this time. Any opinions?

There's no need to soak him before his shed. Some people theorize that it might actually make the shed go worse due to the soaking effecting the natural chemical process used to slough skin.

If it all doesn't come off, soak him for 60 - 90 minutes each night until it does.

There's no need to over complicate things.

My ball pythons never see humidity over 60% and never soak ... most shed just fine.

Hope this helps.

-adam

I only ask because I had my humidity at 70% last time, plus the water dish/humid hide, and it went just horribly. He got the head off, but the rest was stuck on there harsh. After a couple days of him trying to get it off on his own, I soaked him for 30-45 mins and rubbed him with a wet washcloth, and with my peeling and rubbing, I managed to get it all off.

I guess I'll just keep up the humidity and hope for the best. Thanks!

My first question is what type of gauge are you using to get the humidity readings. Because if at 70% its almost impossible for the snake to not have a good shed. Thats what i keep the tank at around shedding time and i get perfect sheds( i have 2 of them sitting on my shelf on display :) ) and i dont even use a humid hide. If you are using those crap stick on gauges then id say its time to pick up a digital one because it sounds like your getting faulty readings. other then that i would actuall stear away from doing any " rubbing" or "peeling" because there is a chance you could hurt or damage the snakes newly forming skin. Honestly, if its that hard to get off even after soaking for a long period of time then i would just let the next shed take everything off.

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Originally Posted by DrEwTiMe

i would actuall stear away from doing any " rubbing" or "peeling" because there is a chance you could hurt or damage the snakes newly forming skin.

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I've been "rubbing" and "peeling" sheds for 20 years and have never had a problem.

Hope this helps.

-adam

ya i didnt mean that its life threatening, but for one thing im sure it does not feel so nice to the snake to get things peeled off that don't really wnat to come off heh. But if its not too stuck on there there is no problem.

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Originally Posted by DrEwTiMe

ya i didnt mean that its life threatening, but for one thing im sure it does not feel so nice to the snake to get things peeled off that don't really wnat to come off heh. But if its not too stuck on there there is no problem.

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Actually, it's the being restrained part that they don't like ... If you've ever peeled a shed off of a snake, you'd noticed that they are twitchy at first, but once they realize what you're doing, they settle down and let it happen .... Always seemed to me like they felt better as it was coming off.

-adam

A while ago my female bp shed perfectly- from the back of her neck down. For some reason she just didn't shed her head at all. That was a blast trying to get a somewhat headshy bp to cooperate with getting her whole head, eyecaps, lower jaw, etc off. It was funny though, once I got it started, the headshyness went away somewhat and allowed me to pull it off.

Ya that makes sense, i have definitly had to do some rubbing in my time with my snake.

if i were you i would just try it once to see how things work out. You never really know until ya try. and this is just my opinion, if you don't want to soak your snake then don't and if you do want to then do so. do what you feel would be most appropriate. and good luck with oyur snakes shed ;)

Brian

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Originally Posted by normballpython2

if i were you i would just try it once to see how things work out. You never really know until ya try. and this is just my opinion, if you don't want to soak your snake then don't and if you do want to then do so. do what you feel would be most appropriate. and good luck with oyur snakes shed

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Exactly!! .... Don't be afraid to try new things with your snakes to find out first hand what works and what doesn't ... not so many moons ago some of us were keeping snakes and there weren't any internet message boards to ask things like this on ... we did just fine by trial and error ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

not so many moons ago some of us were keeping snakes and there weren't any internet message boards to ask things like this on ... we did just fine by trial and error ;)

-adam

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yeah and in adams case they probably didn't even have books to rely on. because like he is old...like really old lol. jk :)

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Originally Posted by normballpython2

yeah and in adams case they probably didn't even have books to rely on. because like he is old...like really old lol. jk :)

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LMAO ... yuppers ... my social security number is 7. ;)

not too shabby there Brian! :D

-adam

Hahahaha
SSI# 7
ahh that was good :)

EEeeeeeehhhhhhhhhh? What's that you say Sonny???

hey there.. i'm new here obviously, and likewise i'm a rather new BP owner. I'm about 90% certain that my snake is femail, she is a little over 20 inches long and i've had her since about early February. She eats just fine every time i feed her, but i have had one shed so far and it went horribly as far as i can tell.. considering how everything i've looked up says the skin should come off all in one piece and not in pieces.

half of her face didn't shed i managed to get that off the other day using a cue tip with some tape around the end. hehe, that book was handy.. but how can i avoid such long drawn out sheds in the future? ...i mean the whole process took at least a week if not two.. there is still one or two patches around her neck that i'm waiting to see if will come off since i soaked her yesterday.

also.. it just seems to me that her scales aren't as shiny as they should be...
could i have a skind problem of some sort here?

it has been said in thread and applies to your case as well. keep your humidity around 60% and maybe a humid hide at shed time. all should go well. if not either peel the shed off by hand or get a wet washcloth and rub it off gently. i keep my room at 50-60% steady and no problems with sheds.


vaughn

how can i keep the humidity at a certain point? and i should know what it is but i dont.. like i said i'm fairly new at this... so what is a humid hide and how much do they usually cost?
i dunno about keeping my entire room at a certain humidity.. i have to be able to sleep in there after all. for now it's the only place i can keep my terrarium.

if you could describe your setup it will help. a humid hide is basically a hide with damp moss or substrate in the hide. just damp not wet and soggy. measure your humidity with a digital type temperature anf humidity gauge sold at target,walmart/radio shack. you can keep your cage moist by spraying once or twice daily. your cage venting has alot to do with keeping humidity in check. more venting=less humidity / less venting=more humidity.
if your using a screen top you could cover 80-90% of the top with plastic or magazines or acrylic to keep in the heat and moisture. light bulbs dry th air out alot. an under tank heating pad made for reptiles or flexwatt heating will help with humidity. hope this helps.


vaughn

Covering a screen lid with a wet towel jacks the tank's humidity too. Twice daily misting + wet towel over the screen lid + using only my UTHs to control heat = a perfect shed for me last time. He wouldn't touch the humid hide, though. Weirdo.

that helps a lot.. i have a 20 gallon high glass tank with a screen top and a heat lamp that sits on top of the screen. i'l check out the humid hides, i dont know if i'l have room for it though. i'l definately try the wet towel trick. i know she drinks a lot, i see her a few times a week when she happens to be thirsty.. hehe interesting to watch them drink.. but she never gets in the water bowl just to wet herself.

i noticed when i soaked her that she really wasn't happy about the water.. i didn't want it to be too hot so it was prolly just a little over room temperature.. prolly around the same temp. as in the terrarium actually. is that normal [the disliking a bath] or does it just depend on the snake?.. being that some like to swim, some dont, and somtimes it just depends on their mood?

i think my python is a fast grower, i've had her for barely two months and i think she grew an inch or more already. as soon as i am able i'd like to get a bigger tank. idealy i will have a nice corner set up that goes from the floor to the ceiling.. but getting a set up like that will take more knowledge and money on my part, besides she's not gigantic yet...

Ball pythons are terrestrial and a floor to ceiling set up wouldbe pretty dangerous for them. It would also not give them the proper heat gradients for them to thermoregulate properly. If you are only using a heat lamp for heat, that is the majority of your humidity issues. Lamps leach humidity out of the air, and also don't provide the belly heat they need to properly digest their food. A heating pad will help with both the belly heat and the humidity issue. All heating pads should be put on a rheostat or a thermostat.

If you don't already have a good digital thermometer, WalMart has a good combo unit that measures the temp on both sides of the enclosure and humidity. The brand is Acu-Rite and it costs $14.98. It is in the outdoor thermometer and air conditioning section. The stick-on dial thermometers/hygrometers that you get at the pet store are not accurate and you could be cooking or freezing your snake. Temps on the warm side should be 94-95degrees and the cool side should be 83-84degrees. Humidity should be 50-60% normally and around 70% for a good shed.

If she is indeed a ball python, she won't get "gigantic". Maybe 4-5ft. If you want to start making an enclosure for when s/he is bigger, a 4'x2'x1' would be a good size, as that would give you 8sq ft of floor space. Tall enclosures are not suited for ball pythons or any other terrestrial snake as it makes them feel less secure and it is very difficult to maintain a proper environment for them. Also, ball pythons don't normally soak themselves. If they do, there may be a problem. Some of the problems associated with soaking could be mites, hides aren't secure enough, too hot, dehydrated. There are a plethora of things.

Just wondering, how is your tank set up? What types of hides are you using, what type of bedding? A good way to get humidity up is to use Con-Tac paper(cabinet shelf liner) on about 80-90% of the screen with just a hole for the lamp. Another option is to switch to a longer tank(20long) or even a rubbermaid/sterilite/iris container and your humidity and heat problems will be gone.

I would just keep your humidity high and wait it out.No need to soak really

Although.....Rebel my rescued/adopted ball python was said to never shed very well but this time i kept her humidity at 80% and soaked her and she shed pretty well exept for a small peice by her tail that i peeled off myself

(it was her first shed with me)

And rubbing and peeling wont hurt anything at all.

With Roxys first shed i saw her start and she was doing horrible so i helped her out by peeling some off and she was just fine.

yes i found out a few days ago how a lamp will dry my tank as well as the screen top letting all the moisture out.. >.< someone suggested putting a wet towel on top which i am doing every time i get up and go to bed, as well as putting some moss bought from the pet store in there and keeping it very damp all the time..

i plan on getting a heating pad but i am worried about leaving it on all the time and i dont know the first thing about setting it up with a thermostat or at timer >.<
i want to get an out-of-tank heat pad that i can attach under the tank to cover either the left or right side and not the whole bottom...

if i try to put contac paper on the screen top, how much space between the paper and the lamp should i leave for the cut out part? i dont want to risk a fire hazzard cause there was paper too close to the lamp.. it's a ceramic lamp, 60 wat max, currently with a red bulb.

my terrarium is a 20 gallon high.. i want to get a better set up but for now i cant afford it >.< ...
my substrate is bark. i'm leaning towards changing to the carpet or rug like material most pet stores sell.. i have a large water bowl and a wooden branch attatched to a base that sits up at an angle.. i have some fake plant vines attatched to the side that hang down, and there is a 'pet hammock' under the heat lamp where she can curl up under the light if she is cold..

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Ball pythons are terrestrial and a floor to ceiling set up wouldbe pretty dangerous for them. It would also not give them the proper heat gradients for them to thermoregulate properly. If you are only using a heat lamp for heat, that is the majority of your humidity issues. Lamps leach humidity out of the air, and also don't provide the belly heat they need to properly digest their food. A heating pad will help with both the belly heat and the humidity issue. All heating pads should be put on a rheostat or a thermostat.

If you don't already have a good digital thermometer, WalMart has a good combo unit that measures the temp on both sides of the enclosure and humidity. The brand is Acu-Rite and it costs $14.98. It is in the outdoor thermometer and air conditioning section. The stick-on dial thermometers/hygrometers that you get at the pet store are not accurate and you could be cooking or freezing your snake. Temps on the warm side should be 94-95degrees and the cool side should be 83-84degrees. Humidity should be 50-60% normally and around 70% for a good shed.

If she is indeed a ball python, she won't get "gigantic". Maybe 4-5ft. If you want to start making an enclosure for when s/he is bigger, a 4'x2'x1' would be a good size, as that would give you 8sq ft of floor space. Tall enclosures are not suited for ball pythons or any other terrestrial snake as it makes them feel less secure and it is very difficult to maintain a proper environment for them. Also, ball pythons don't normally soak themselves. If they do, there may be a problem. Some of the problems associated with soaking could be mites, hides aren't secure enough, too hot, dehydrated. There are a plethora of things.

Just wondering, how is your tank set up? What types of hides are you using, what type of bedding? A good way to get humidity up is to use Con-Tac paper(cabinet shelf liner) on about 80-90% of the screen with just a hole for the lamp. Another option is to switch to a longer tank(20long) or even a rubbermaid/sterilite/iris container and your humidity and heat problems will be gone.

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If you tend to keep the enclosure damp all of the time, coupled with the heat, it is going to be a breeding ground for bacteria, and will predispose your snake to scale rot. Humid and wet are different things. Humidity is the amount of moisture in the air, and wet is well, wet. The substrate shouldn't be damp. Humidity should be around 50%.

Heating pads are always supposed to be used OUTSIDE of the enclosure. Regardless of what type of heat it is, always use it outside of the enclosure and out of reach of the snake. Snakes don't know when they are getting burned, so it is our priority to keep them out of harms way. Setting a heat pad up with a thermostat or a dimmer is very simple. There is a diagram here: http://www.mgreptiles.com/dimmerwire.html and you can always talk to Matt, aka justcage, and he can help get you set up.

Also, with the heat pads, you may need two to get the gradiants where they need to be. If only one heat pad covers the entire bottom, then the whole cage will be the same temp. I use two heat pads underneath my enclosure to maintain temps of 95 warm and 83 cool. You can attach a dimmer to each heat pad if you need to and adjust the dimmer according to what temperature you need to heat pad to be.

If you can, I would stay away from the repti-carpet junk. It harbors bacteria and is very overpriced at the pet store. If you want to use carpet, go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get some indoor/outdoor carpeting. I bought a 6'x4' piece of it for only $6(for the leos). But, if you just got the snake, paper towels or newspaper should be used just in case abnormal feces start showing up, and it is much more noticeable on a white substrate. You can also more readily notice mites and such and begin treatment much sooner.

The con-tac paper should be about an inch away from the lamp. Also, how are you measuring your temps? That hammock doesn't sound like a good idea to me, as the snake can get too close to the light and may possibly burn itself. The temps at the level of the hammock may be over 100 degrees, whcih are much too high for a ball.

Another option would be a plastic set-up until you can get a more suitable enclosure. You could get a longer, shorter tub that would be safer for the snake. Plus, tubs only cost in the range of about $6-$12. They hold heat and humidity well, and most are fairly translucent. My iris tub is very see-through.

Hope this cleared some things up for you. :)

that diagram really doesn't help me any. it's just a bunch of scribbles and isn't very explainatory.. i'l have to research it on my own or something, maybe when i have more time. anyway, the tank is not damp all the time and it certainly is not wet. and i am not that ignorant i'm well aware of what the two mean. the substrate is never wet, and the only dampness it gets is when i spray a little water in to dampen the bits off moss i'm using to keep moisture in there. it is dried out within a few hours though. like i said the heat lamp is a 60 watt max lamp, the hammock is no where near close enough to even reach 80 degrees let alone 100. i can hold my hand directly under that lamp and not feel anything even remotely close to hot. hence why the hammock is there. otherwise she wouldn't be able to go to a warmer spot if she's feeling the need to. the temperature in the tank ranges from 73 to 80. i've had her for two months now and she hasn't changed health wise so i'm fairly confident that while these currently are not the ideal conditions, they are not harming her.

i'm certainly not going to switch to plastic not after all the money i spent setting up that terrarium, besides a plastic box would certainly be less homey for her. she's not being kept for venom extraction cause she's not poisinous, she's not part of a big breeding facility.. so i dont see the need to do something like that to her.

at first you said not to use carpet substrate because it harbors bacteria.. i dont see why it would be any different with something meant for the home as opposed to in a terrarium... carpet is carpet, fibers and all.. they could both harbor bacteria could they not? and why would the pet stores even use carpet like that if it can become so easily harmful? that doesn't sound logical at all...

WOW .... Ya know, if you don't want to hear what people have to say, do ask for help. And if people do take the time to try and help you by answering your questions or giving suggestions based on their experience, at least have the courtesy to just say "Thanks, but no thanks" or nothing at all if you don't agree instead of responding in an argumentative fashion.

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Originally Posted by vkahri

that diagram really doesn't help me any. it's just a bunch of scribbles and isn't very explainatory..

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Really, works well for a lot of people ... maybe it's just you. I'm sure if you gave Matt a call, he could explain it in a way that you could understand.

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Originally Posted by vkahri

i'l have to research it on my own or something, maybe when i have more time. anyway, the tank is not damp all the time and it certainly is not wet. and i am not that ignorant i'm well aware of what the two mean.

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I don't think anyone called you ignorant, but you did say in a previous post ....

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Originally Posted by vkahri

as well as putting some moss bought from the pet store in there and keeping it very damp all the time..

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The "very damp all the time" was what Becky was responding to and is not a good idea for a ball pythons enclosure.

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Originally Posted by vkahri

i can hold my hand directly under that lamp and not feel anything even remotely close to hot.

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Well, since your hand is 98.7 degrees, the air around it could be over 100 degrees and not fell "anything even remotely close to hot".

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Originally Posted by vkahri

the temperature in the tank ranges from 73 to 80.

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Your temps are way too cool. Ball pythons need to be kept at 82-84 on the cool side of the tank and 92-94 on the hot. These are the temps that their bodies need to function properly (digestion, immune system, etc) because they are ectothermic.

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Originally Posted by vkahri

i've had her for two months now and she hasn't changed health wise so i'm fairly confident that while these currently are not the ideal conditions, they are not harming her.

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How do you know that they are not harming her? Because of their extremely slow metabolisms, it may take more than a couple of months for the effects of bad husbandry to take their toll on a ball python to the point where they externalize symptoms.

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Originally Posted by vkahri

i'm certainly not going to switch to plastic not after all the money i spent setting up that terrarium,

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Well, that's a great attitude. The health of an animal in your care should always be more important than not spending a few dollars to prove a point. What if the stuff you bought with "all the money" you spent gets her sick and you have to spend a couple of hundred dollars at a vet's office? The few bucks it would take to upgrade her hides would seem trivial then.

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Originally Posted by vkahri

besides a plastic box would certainly be less homey for her.

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I've kept ball pythons for 25 years and I can tell you with great certainty that she will not care. As long as it is a tight small space where she can feel secure, she will do fine. After that, the most important thing is being able to keep it clean.

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Originally Posted by vkahri

she's not being kept for venom extraction cause she's not poisinous, she's not part of a big breeding facility.. so i dont see the need to do something like that to her.

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Whether being kept at a breeding facility or as a pet, wouldn't you want to do everything you can to make sure an animal in your care has a healthy and safe environment to live in?

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Originally Posted by vkahri

at first you said not to use carpet substrate because it harbors bacteria.. i dont see why it would be any different with something meant for the home as opposed to in a terrarium... carpet is carpet, fibers and all.. they could both harbor bacteria could they not? and why would the pet stores even use carpet like that if it can become so easily harmful? that doesn't sound logical at all...

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A ball python enclosure is not the same as your home .... it is smaller, less ventilated, damp (according to your moss statement above), kept at much higher temps, and has a wild animal living on it .... there is a HUGE difference, and that difference increase the chance of mold and mildew thriving in those "fibers and all" a lot more than they would in your much cooler much more ventilated, dryer, home.

Good luck getting people to help you, you're off to a great start!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

WOW .... Ya know, if you don't want to hear what people have to say, do ask for help. And if people do take the time to try and help you by answering your questions or giving suggestions based on their experience, at least have the courtesy to just say "Thanks, but no thanks" or nothing at all if you don't agree instead of responding in an argumentative fashion.

Good luck getting people to help you, you're off to a great start!

-adam

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dude your acting like i said "these suggestions are all bullcrap, your stupid and out of your mind!"
argumentative fashion? god i dont recall being spitefull.. i dont recall suggesting that the answers i was given were stupid, or something. If the scribbles dont help me then they dont help me. sorry for being honest but that's what it looks like to me not a diagram.

and i havent done the things i've done so far blindly.. they were suggested by other snake owners when i asked about what things would be best and what things would not be best. I dont know anymore about how good their information was than i do about how good this information was.. so please excuse me if i didn't just get down on my hands and knees in praise.
obviously i've been getting different advice from places so i'm stating my thoughts in an attempt to get more information..

not someone jumping down my throat like they have a problem with me. i didn't do that here. no one called me ignorant but i used that term because honestly if you dont know something than you are ignorant about it. i am not ignornant about the difference between damp, wet, humidity etc. i dont know how you read it but i wasn't being sarcastic or spitefull man.

actually if you took that much offense to my response you didn't have to respond with more advice anyway.

and just because you think i dont appreciate the advice, thankyou anyway.. i'm gaining some knowledge which i can compare to other sources and along with it, aggression!

Man... I'm with Adam on this one. A little courtesy goes a long way. I'm a noob myself, but when I ask for help I take everything I can get my hands on. Regardless if it's "you're doing this wrong" or not. Adam and Becky have helped me quite a bit in my short stay here thus far. If you're doing something wrong, wouldn't you want to know about it? I mean, that is why you asked... isn't it? Pride shouldn't get in the way of good husbandry. Not trying to start a flame war or anything, I just think a little appreciation goes a long way. These people are VERY knowlegable, one would be wise to heed their warnings.

thanks for the post i wanted to edit mine but cant.. not allowed to.. that is just down right weird. >.>

it's not pride it's frustration.. and stress.. sorry for comming off sounding like i did.

i just have a lot of crap on my mind and some of what i read made me feel like i was being condescended or something. *shrugs*

i'l go about it silently for a while, i dont have to ask for help to get it damnit all..
you guys are gonna think i'm all helpless or lazy or something like i cant go research a little on my own.

man i do suck.. i go now. toodles.

:D


-adam

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Originally Posted by vkahri

thanks for the post i wanted to edit mine but cant.. not allowed to.. that is just down right weird. >.>

it's not pride it's frustration.. and stress.. sorry for comming off sounding like i did.

i just have a lot of crap on my mind and some of what i read made me feel like i was being condescended or something. *shrugs*

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We all stress at times... I know I do. :oops:

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Originally Posted by vkahri

i'l go about it silently for a while, i dont have to ask for help to get it damnit all..
you guys are gonna think i'm all helpless or lazy or something like i cant go research a little on my own.

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If you have questions, ask away!!! The people on here love helping noobs like us. Nobody things you're lazy for not searching. I search, and ask questions. Do only one or the other and you may end up mis-informed. I've found it takes an even mix of asking questions and researching to gain the valuable knowlege that is beneficial to good husbandry. Please don't take what I said as a bad thing... I'm just trying to help.

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Originally Posted by vkahri

man i do suck.. i go now. toodles.

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:( Why do you say that? Nobody's trying to scare you away.

I don't meant to sound condescending at all, I apologize if I did. As a vet tech, I try and look out for the animal's health first and foremost. I'm sorry if I came off strong, but it is important that the environmental conditions the snake is kept in change for the better.

As Adam said, ball pythons have extremely slow metabolisms, and illnesses may not manifest themselves for months, and then all at once, the snake is gurgling, gasping for air, because its lungs are filled with icky stuff that it can't cough out. Temperatures are very important for these guys and they despise fluctuations. We're just looking out for you and your snake, and trying to save you hundreds of dollars in vet bills just in case something like that does occur.

Pet stores use carpet because it is cheap, and they have a neverending supply of it. But just like Adam said, there is a living animal living in the enclosure that harbors salmonella in its feces, it is hot and humid in the cage with not much air flow, so bacteria grow readily in this type of environment. I was saying no to the carpet because it doesn't conduct heat well, is annoying to clean every time your snake goes to the bathroom, extremely expensive at the pet store and doesn't hold up well in the washing machine or in bleach water. Plus, if the snake goes to hide underneath the carpet, it may likely get burned on the glass since they can't sense heat well. They don't know they are getting burned. The cypress mulch looks wonderful, and is easy to spot clean if the need arises. I have a few sheets of newspaper underneath the mulch, just in case she moves it around and ends up sitting on the bottom of the tub.

Also, the plastic caging was just an idea until you could get the terrarium you want. Temporary thing. Regardless of whether glass or plastic is used, the whole concept is to make it as secure-feeling to the snake as possible. The tubs help that a little better since most are transluscent, and help the snake not feel so out in the open. You can do that with a glass enclosure as well, but you just have to provide alot of cover(silk leaves, branches), and you can also cover 3 sides with Con-Tac paper or a colored construction paper, or even one of those backgrounds from the petstore. All work equally well.

I know how you feel. It is exactly the way I felt when I tried to go help out at another reptile forum, trying to give my medical input and see if I could help anyone. But did they want my help? Nope... They were wondering why people kept coming to them asking why their ball wasn't eating when the temps were "right" and all of this other mess. I tried to explain that if you keep a ball python at 90warm and 80 cool, that they would most likely never eat consistently. They replied with a condescending tone that if you keep a snake at any higher temperatures, then the snake would get neurologic and die. Such a pain...

Sorry for the rant, but I know being stressed out is tough. Stress is when your boyfriend of over a year just up and leaves for a job in San Francisco. I know, off-topic.

If you do have any questions about anything, just ask. All we want to do is help. :)

Folks round here really do put out to help. I can't tell you nor would I mention by name the number of forum communities to which i have at one point belonged which seemed to be based solidly on the following (DESPITE forum focus topic): "Read the FAQ" or "Search First" or "Read the Caresheet" or "google it". One thing that keeps me so deeply involved here is the communal willingness to help and the variety and scope of advice that can be harvested for use. Clearly there is no "golden path" to follow - no "one right way" other than making the health of the herps in your care your priority. It is often possible to mistake passion for prescription - though that's never the intent and some caveats and warnings may be more strongly worded than others. Please stick around - there are new things to discover and learn constntly - for all of us.

Having read this thread and being the newbiest newb of all time (hell we don't even own a ball python yet and I ask a million questions daily of the patient folk here) I just had to speak to this.

One thing online is not so great for is the lack of body language and voice tone. Just a typed word or two can be taken wrong and suddenly someone's upset when the same comment made in person would have brought a different reaction completely....just a thought.

Most importantly as a new owners to be, my husband and I have also done those long hours of research at countless websites, read more info in forums than we can begin to comprehend yet and are asking question upon question. We've found those here (and at one other forum) to be very patient with us. I actually sent a private message to one of this forum's moderators asking if we were being a bother with all the threads we start and were assured it was showing we were concerned for the snake's best interests and it's good for the forum to have lots of threads going. Sure made us feel welcome here and that none of our questions were unwanted.

As far as the issue of setting up a home for your BP. We've got a lovely 30 gallon octogon enclosure sitting empty. Without this forum we likely would have put the new BP in there and then had tons of problems with temp and humidity issues. In the end, it's the snake that pays for those problems. So as the best advice given indicates, we will use Rubbermaid. It's not the "prettiest" set-up but if it's what is best for the snake....subject closed. Maybe in time as our snake matures and we become more experienced, we can feel confident to try out that enclosure, but ONLY if it's in the snake's best interest to live in it. Pet ownership isn't, or should never be, about what is best for the human, especially "exotic" pets with special requirements.

For Mike and I it's about being privileged to "own" a piece of nature, to show our kids that wonder and to maybe be lucky enough to one day see some eggs open and a baby ball head pop out.

So hopping down off my soapbox...and newcomer to newcomer....please believe these folks want the best for your snake. If they came across to you as a bit abrupt, I'm sure it was not meant that way and came from their concern for the snake's well-being and to help you succeed as a snake keeper.

great post :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

One thing online is not so great for is the lack of body language and voice tone. Just a typed word or two can be taken wrong and suddenly someone's upset when the same comment made in person would have brought a different reaction completely....just a thought.

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thats why I always put :) happy faces....a form of internet body language